Dragon Quest Revival Discussion Thread

[Winter]

I'm a fan of the DQ series but I've really only played DQ9 and I'm halfway through 11 so apologies if I say some stupid shit but

1. How exactly does the timeline work in DQ as a whole? I thought every game was its own continuity and had no relation to any other besides non-canon superboss cameos and outfits
2. Why is DQ9 scaled differently from every other game?

I have unfortunately missed most of this thread because Vsbw notifications suck on gmail, so lemme get through some of these

1. They all exist within the same multiverse, but as for what occurs in what order, the only idea you can really get is

11 > Erdrick Trilogy (3 > 1 > 2) and Zenithian Trilogy (6, 4, 5)

7 takes place after 2 presuming they all are in the same time. 8 has no confirmed timeline placement, and 9 has remained mostly separate in timeline terms. DQ10 I have no idea of

2. Mainly due to its lack of connection to the other games, but counting DQ11 minion bosses before End of Time, they would all scale similarly to the multiversal rating

DQ10 is implied to be the same universe as 9 but in the future and has some really juicy bits that can be used to upgrade certain profiles however the problem is that it’s in Japanese

I’ve never seen this. Is there a translation with connections?

I honestly don’t know I guess they only believe DQ9 scales to the almighty’s daughter making the celestians stars

I think it should be multiversal like the other games via post game as the hero and friends was capable of fighting Nokturnus and Estark

Post-game canonically makes no sense and are highly contradictory, as with a bunch of other post-game content (this includes DQ3, DQ6, and DQ9)

The other post games make sense canonically and work with plot


Enough about that, the discord discussion with Medeus and Neo are probably gonna change most of the scaling as is. While I do disagree with some of the stuff they agreed on, I can’t convince Neo, so any content we put on here may have to be put here unless we can agree on certain things + things I haven’t talked to them yet

These blogs contain basically anything that changes things (aside from a few smaller things), but these change everything (nearly)

Dragon Quest: The Multiverse

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Nature of Light and Darkness

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Consistency of Tier 2

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

 

[Mickey1940]

I have unfortunately missed most of this thread because Vsbw notifications suck on gmail, so lemme get through some of these

1. They all exist within the same multiverse, but as for what occurs in what order, the only idea you can really get is

11 > Erdrick Trilogy (3 > 1 > 2) and Zenithian Trilogy (6, 4, 5)

7 takes place after 2 presuming they all are in the same time. 8 has no confirmed timeline placement, and 9 has remained mostly separate in timeline terms. DQ10 I have no idea of

2. Mainly due to its lack of connection to the other games, but counting DQ11 minion bosses before End of Time, they would all scale similarly to the multiversal rating

DQ11 was before literally everything else?

 

[HoodedEnigma]

Yea it's a prequel to 3

 

[Abysswalker2126]

I have unfortunately missed most of this thread because Vsbw notifications suck on gmail, so lemme get through some of these

1. They all exist within the same multiverse, but as for what occurs in what order, the only idea you can really get is

11 > Erdrick Trilogy (3 > 1 > 2) and Zenithian Trilogy (6, 4, 5)

7 takes place after 2 presuming they all are in the same time. 8 has no confirmed timeline placement, and 9 has remained mostly separate in timeline terms. DQ10 I have no idea of

2. Mainly due to its lack of connection to the other games, but counting DQ11 minion bosses before End of Time, they would all scale similarly to the multiversal rating



I’ve never seen this. Is there a translation with connections?



Post-game canonically makes no sense and are highly contradictory, as with a bunch of other post-game content (this includes DQ3, DQ6, and DQ9)

The other post games make sense canonically and work with plot


Enough about that, the discord discussion with Medeus and Neo are probably gonna change most of the scaling as is. While I do disagree with some of the stuff they agreed on, I can’t convince Neo, so any content we put on here may have to be put here unless we can agree on certain things + things I haven’t talked to them yet

These blogs contain basically anything that changes things (aside from a few smaller things), but these change everything (nearly)

Dragon Quest: The Multiverse

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Nature of Light and Darkness

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Consistency of Tier 2

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

I do believe that the dq9 post game does make sense considering how you discover all the little details of explanation for certain plot points that weren’t revealed yet

like why Brigadoom was destroyed and Who Morag was working for

Who’s the ghost in the quartertomb and the reason why the Ragin’Contagion was placed there with him


What happened to the Almighty when Corvus’s beams of dark light pierced his realm

Nokturnus makes sense being there considering how he has his avatars all throughout the multiverse

I don’t remember who said it but I recall that DQ9 and DQ10 were connected and Nokturnus shows up there too along with other bosses like a stronger malroth which makes sense as he said that they were his underlings

 

[Winter]

DQ11 was before literally everything else?

Pretty much. It’s a prequel to 3, and vaguely implied to be a prequel to the Zenithian trilogy

I do believe that the dq9 post game does make sense considering how you discover all the little details of explanation for certain plot points that weren’t revealed yet

like why Brigadoom was destroyed and Who Morag was working for

Who’s the ghost in the quartertomb and the reason why the Ragin’Contagion was placed there with him


What happened to the Almighty when Corvus’s beams of dark light pierced his realm

Nokturnus makes sense being there considering how he has his avatars all throughout the multiverse

I don’t remember who said it but I recall that DQ9 and DQ10 were connected and Nokturnus shows up there too along with other bosses like a stronger malroth which makes sense as he said that they were his underlings

Tbh, DQ9 is partial canon. I don’t believe that the legacy bosses are canon, but everything else seems fine. Legacy bosses are wacky and have no canon placement. Nok and Estark are the only ones with a decent explanation (Both have like no dimensional boundaries whatsoever)

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Is anyone here capable of calcing feats?still trying to get these feats calculated

 

[Armorchompy]

I have currently been playing Dragon Quest V HOTHB, and first off, it's really good, shocked I've never seen it mentioned much in SNES RPG conversations because it might be one of my absolute favorites now.

Secondly and more relevantly, I think I might revise profiles related to it, it seems like relatively straightforward work at least regarding the game itself, dunno about side content but given their current quality it'd still be an improvement, is there anything that make that a bad idea, considering that I don't have much knowledge of the overall verse? (No spoilers please, I'm still not done with it, just got to the flying castle)

 

[Winter]

I have currently been playing Dragon Quest V HOTHB, and first off, it's really good, shocked I've never seen it mentioned much in SNES RPG conversations because it might be one of my absolute favorites now.

Secondly and more relevantly, I think I might revise profiles related to it, it seems like relatively straightforward work at least regarding the game itself, dunno about side content but given their current quality it'd still be an improvement, is there anything that make that a bad idea, considering that I don't have much knowledge of the overall verse? (No spoilers please, I'm still not done with it, just got to the flying castle)

W, it’s a really good game. It’s not really as relevant in the west currently but it’s still pretty dang awesome. Not necessarily relevant, but to recommend some other DQ games, you should try 4 (to keep with the story, given it’s a prequel), 11 (not apart of a trilogy, but honestly one of the best DQ games along with 3, 5, and 8), or 8 (I personally recommend PS2 version for the best experience due to orchestral music and voiced characters, but other versions are more accessible)

Yea, that’d be cool. 4, 5, and 6 are all apart of a trilogy involving the same world. You might be spoiled in the process but we’ll see how that eventually goes. There is a discord gc where people tried to upgrade the verse but I’m starting to lose interest because me and the creator keep disagreeing on it. It had a bunch of stuff like 2-B, likely 2-A DQ, hax upgrades (the main disagreeing point), and yin yang between light and darkness (which I have also disagreed on some parts of this)

But anyway, thanks for joining.

 

[Armorchompy]

W, it’s a really good game. It’s not really as relevant in the west currently but it’s still pretty dang awesome.

Yeah I watched a video on it and it seemed interesting, so I gave the DS version a shot.

Not necessarily relevant, but to recommend some other DQ games, you should try 4 (to keep with the story, given it’s a prequel), 11 (not apart of a trilogy, but honestly one of the best DQ games along with 3, 5, and 8), or 8 (I personally recommend PS2 version for the best experience due to orchestral music and voiced characters, but other versions are more accessible)

How are the Slime games? I've always been curious.

Yea, that’d be cool. 4, 5, and 6 are all apart of a trilogy involving the same world. You might be spoiled in the process but we’ll see how that eventually goes. There is a discord gc where people tried to upgrade the verse but I’m starting to lose interest because me and the creator keep disagreeing on it. It had a bunch of stuff like 2-B, likely 2-A DQ, hax upgrades (the main disagreeing point), and yin yang between light and darkness (which I have also disagreed on some parts of this)

Gotcha, makes sense. Yeah IDK if I wanna get too deep in that sorta lore. I can probably give an opinion if the arguments are presented to me but I don't know if you're in the phase where that's helpful. But if it just comes to doing the legwork of looking through equipment and spells for P&A I can do that no problem, would that still be helpful?

I presume you'd also need a calc for before the endgame stuff, and I can do the mountain melting feat I think.

 

[Winter]

Yeah I watched a video on it and it seemed interesting, so I gave the DS version a shot.

Yea, it’s pretty fun

How are the Slime games? I've always been curious.

I’d assume your talking about the Rocket Slime games. From someone who hasn’t played the entire game, it’s ok, while not necessarily lore important, it’s a goofy little side-game that sorta carries a Mario and Luigi game overworld style and puzzle solving. It’s pretty similar and I’d recommend it if that’s your thing. Personally, I haven’t really played it since I was using an emulator and the controls felt wonky on computer.

Gotcha, makes sense. Yeah IDK if I wanna get too deep in that sorta lore. I can probably give an opinion if the arguments are presented to me but I don't know if you're in the phase where that's helpful. But if it just comes to doing the legwork of looking through equipment and spells for P&A I can do that no problem, would that still be helpful?
I presume you'd also need a calc for before the endgame stuff, and I can do the mountain melting feat I think.

I mean, whatever help your willing to do I’m sure will be fine. We’ve barely gotten far in this since people here weren’t really as active and I was preoccupied with the gc (while helpful, was pretty annoying to argue and debate constantly).

This would be helpful. We are having trouble deciding on what abilities are applicable due to deciding what’s canon and what’s not (while people say it doesn’t have true canon, I don’t necessarily believe it to be the case). Its mostly a matter of figuring out what post-games and side games connected to other games to the point where other main villains canonically appear in those post/side games. Main ones to note are DQ9 and the Monsters games, where final bosses appear. Canonically, I cannot say since there’s 2 arguments I’ve gotten from people about this and my own which is just not to count it. 1 has to do with the light and darkness stuff I mentioned before and the other is to make it all separate keys (while it makes sense, im confused on the canon of it all)

The endgame is a whole other can of worms though.

Calculation wise, there’s definitely a bunch you can calculate. I think there was a volcano thing I posted in the crt. Only problem with it is that there are different ways you can try to apply the feat. Whether it’s a durability feat (via tanking a volcanic explosion since he logically would be at the hole to drop the sword), or Erdrick scales via having better equipment, or he doesn’t scale at all.

The other feats I can think of for now are the mountain feat you mentioned by the daughter (I think that’s before part you’re at, right?), a feat by a standard monster where a ship was thrown hundreds of meters into the air, and freezing over a kingdom (although the same person who did the feat can also create casual snowstorms, so we might not need to worry about this)

 

[Armorchompy]

I’d assume your talking about the Rocket Slime games. From someone who hasn’t played the entire game, it’s ok, while not necessarily lore important, it’s a goofy little side-game that sorta carries a Mario and Luigi game overworld style and puzzle solving. It’s pretty similar and I’d recommend it if that’s your thing. Personally, I haven’t really played it since I was using an emulator and the controls felt wonky on computer.

Gotcha.

I mean, whatever help your willing to do I’m sure will be fine. We’ve barely gotten far in this since people here weren’t really as active and I was preoccupied with the gc (while helpful, was pretty annoying to argue and debate constantly).

Mm, will keep that in mind.

This would be helpful. We are having trouble deciding on what abilities are applicable due to deciding what’s canon and what’s not (while people say it doesn’t have true canon, I don’t necessarily believe it to be the case). Its mostly a matter of figuring out what post-games and side games connected to other games to the point where other main villains canonically appear in those post/side games. Main ones to note are DQ9 and the Monsters games, where final bosses appear. Canonically, I cannot say since there’s 2 arguments I’ve gotten from people about this and my own which is just not to count it. 1 has to do with the light and darkness stuff I mentioned before and the other is to make it all separate keys (while it makes sense, im confused on the canon of it all)

I think if it's unclear and just AP you can just do "At least [UNQUESTIONABLE TIER], possibly/likely [DQ9/MONSTERS TIER]". P&A gets a bit more annoying.

The endgame is a whole other can of worms though.

I think just to increase profile quality I'd personally just revise the DQV profiles using stuff from DQV, just to set a baseline where there's reliable feats and good P&A, and then that can be added onto by people who know the series overall without needing to do the work I did for them.

The other feats I can think of for now are the mountain feat you mentioned by the daughter (I think that’s before part you’re at, right?)

Yeah, it's currently on DQ5 profiles without a calc but I think it can give a pretty noteworthy result.

Calculation wise, there’s definitely a bunch you can calculate. I think there was a volcano thing I posted in the crt. Only problem with it is that there are different ways you can try to apply the feat. Whether it’s a durability feat (via tanking a volcanic explosion since he logically would be at the hole to drop the sword), or Erdrick scales via having better equipment, or he doesn’t scale at all.

A feat by a standard monster where a ship was thrown hundreds of meters into the air, and freezing over a kingdom (although the same person who did the feat can also create casual snowstorms, so we might not need to worry about this)

I think this could definitely give more than just a random snowstorm, so it could be worth doing. I'm not committing to any calcs but if you give me scans, I wouldn't mind giving it a look.

How we doing speed-wise? I think I could calc dodging gameplay stuff using the POV perspective the games have, if needed.

 

[Ped2018]

Gotcha.

Mm, will keep that in mind.

I think if it's unclear and just AP you can just do "At least [UNQUESTIONABLE TIER], possibly/likely [DQ9/MONSTERS TIER]". P&A gets a bit more annoying.

I think just to up profile quality I'd personally just revise the DQV profiles using stuff from DQV, just to set a baseline where there's reliable feats and good P&A, and then that can be added onto by people who know the series overall without needing to do the work I did for them.

Yeah, it's currently on DQ5 profiles without a calc but I think it can give a pretty noteworthy result.


I think this could definitely give more than just a random snowstorm, so it could be worth doing. I'm not committing to any calcs but if you give me scans, I wouldn't mind giving it a look.

How we doing speed-wise? I think I could calc dodging gameplay stuff using the POV perspective the games have, if needed.

Why's this thread on Q&A?

 

[Armorchompy]

good question

 

[Winter]

Why's this thread on Q&A?

Idek, mb

 

[Ped2018]

good question

Move this to general discussion

 

[Armorchompy]

yep makes sense

 

[Winter]

Gotcha.

Mm, will keep that in mind.

I think if it's unclear and just AP you can just do "At least [UNQUESTIONABLE TIER], possibly/likely [DQ9/MONSTERS TIER]". P&A gets a bit more annoying.

I think just to increase profile quality I'd personally just revise the DQV profiles using stuff from DQV, just to set a baseline where there's reliable feats and good P&A, and then that can be added onto by people who know the series overall without needing to do the work I did for them.

Yeah, it's currently on DQ5 profiles without a calc but I think it can give a pretty noteworthy result.


I think this could definitely give more than just a random snowstorm, so it could be worth doing. I'm not committing to any calcs but if you give me scans, I wouldn't mind giving it a look.

How we doing speed-wise? I think I could calc dodging gameplay stuff using the POV perspective the games have, if needed.

I mean, potentially but then there’s the canon problem. I haven’t argued it in a while, so I have no idea what people’s stances are on this so yea. It’s a p&a problem. While most are minor, it’s still something worth figuring out. All final bosses are the same tier via DQ11 (which is lame since there’s no tier verity for the endgame in the verse because of it)

That works. At the very least we need to get some p& a on the profiles since some lack most of the spells and powers shown in the games. A bit off topic of DQ5, but some monster profiles would be awesome.

Yea that works

I can do that. I’ll post them in a sec.

Speed-wise, I’m not necessarily sure. Early-mid game is pretty unknown to me since it varies from game to game and I haven’t looked at the verse for a while. End game is consistently immeasurable speeds throughout, though if we consider whatever the gc had in mind, every endgame character would have it.

 

[Winter]

Here’s some calculable stuff

Tossing Ships:



3:59

A tentacular can throw ships really high into the air to the point in took almost a minute for one to come down (if you count gameplay time)

Frozen Kingdom:



24:40

Entire kingdom got froze over in one go. There’s a bunch of different points that mentions this. This view at least shows the entire gate got frozen solid.



12:05

Here’s a view of the entire town and castle frozen

15:50

Sorta in-depth explanation of what happened

DQ3 Volcano:

Posted it all earlier in this reply. Early game stuff doesn’t necessarily matter anymore since the early and mid-game of most DQ Games have no way of differentiating the tier so early and mid-game would have to be merged for most heroes.

Update:

So we still haven’t come to an agreement on Erdrick god tiers but we did have some discussion on the lower tiers


All Erdrick Trilogy Heroes will have 2 keys, a beginning of game one and an end of game/with Erdrick Equipment key (aside from Erdrick, he will have 3, Beginning of Game | Middle of Game - Late Game | With Erdrick’s Equipment )

All beginning of game keys will be somewhere around 9-B via fighting larger monsters like the Golem, Green Dragon, etc. The previous 8-C scaling on Erdrick is inapplicable since there is only 1 monsters that scales to that size (King Squid related monsters), and he isn’t fought till mid-game. Every other monster is like Type 0


Erdrick’s Mid-Game key can potentially be scaled off of this:



22:45

I don’t know if this would give the Mountaincleaver AP but he definitely tanks some portion of the eruption since he’s standing right at the maw of the volcano. He would be scalable to this



4:03


This could probably be used to scale the size better

 

[Armorchompy]

Erdrick’s Mid-Game key can potentially be scaled off of this:



22:45

I don’t know if this would give the Mountaincleaver AP but he definitely tanks some portion of the eruption since he’s standing right at the maw of the volcano. He would be scalable to this



4:03

This could probably be used to scale the size better

I think I have bad news, I dunno if it's calculable at all, standing in the vicinity of an eruption doesn't really imply "tanking" it given that it's not really an explosion, it's the fumes and eventually the lava you need to learn about. You can probably find a value for eruptions, but that probably wouldn't end up scaling back to Erdrick without a UES. Even if you presume he stood close enough to be hit by the lava flow it'd be hard to quantify how much he took, and the narration states he throws it anyways, so IDK. Maybe the HD-2D remaster will change that but for now, no luck

Tossing Ships:



3:59

A tentacular can throw ships really high into the air to the point in took almost a minute for one to come down (if you count gameplay time)

Seems fairly doable, I'd predict somewhere in tier 8.

Frozen Kingdom:



24:40

Entire kingdom got froze over in one go. There’s a bunch of different points that mentions this. This view at least shows the entire gate got frozen solid.



12:05

Here’s a view of the entire town and castle frozen

15:50

Sorta in-depth explanation of what happened

Would require additional information. What's the kingdom's usual climate? Any indications of its size? Otherwise pixel scaling would be a nightmare and probably impossible without thorough knowledge of the game itself, which I don't have. I guess I could eyeball it as a random medieval kingdom but that would require a lot of research and i uh don't wanna

 

[Winter]

I think I have bad news, I dunno if it's calculable at all, standing in the vicinity of an eruption doesn't really imply "tanking" it given that it's not really an explosion, it's the fumes and eventually the lava you need to learn about. You can probably find a value for eruptions, but that probably wouldn't end up scaling back to Erdrick without a UES. Even if you presume he stood close enough to be hit by the lava flow it'd be hard to quantify how much he took, and the narration states he throws it anyways, so IDK. Maybe the HD-2D remaster will change that but for now, no luck

Seems fairly doable, I'd predict somewhere in tier 8.

Would require additional information. What's the kingdom's usual climate? Any indications of its size? Otherwise pixel scaling would be a nightmare and probably impossible without thorough knowledge of the game itself, which I don't have. I guess I could eyeball it as a random medieval kingdom but that would require a lot of research and i uh don't wanna

Fair enough

Ok

Climate is usually cold and snowy. Size is difficult to give. The wiki page says the city is loosely based on Reykjavík, Iceland, although not sure how much this helps.

From comparing a few images, I’d say it’s probably a small manor excluding farmland (since it lacks these). Given it’s a city of sorts, it has high walls and a castle instead of a manor house.

Hopefully this helps somewhat

 

[Abysswalker2126]

I think I have bad news, I dunno if it's calculable at all, standing in the vicinity of an eruption doesn't really imply "tanking" it given that it's not really an explosion, it's the fumes and eventually the lava you need to learn about. You can probably find a value for eruptions, but that probably wouldn't end up scaling back to Erdrick without a UES. Even if you presume he stood close enough to be hit by the lava flow it'd be hard to quantify how much he took, and the narration states he throws it anyways, so IDK. Maybe the HD-2D remaster will change that but for now, no luck

Seems fairly doable, I'd predict somewhere in tier 8.

Would require additional information. What's the kingdom's usual climate? Any indications of its size? Otherwise pixel scaling would be a nightmare and probably impossible without thorough knowledge of the game itself, which I don't have. I guess I could eyeball it as a random medieval kingdom but that would require a lot of research and i uh don't wanna

I still have some DQ9 early game feats I need calcd

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Hexagoon’s footsteps shakes the Hexagoon

Lost Soul’s Self Destruction

The Freezing power of Crack

Lleviathan Whips up a tidal wave

Leviathan’s Tail swipe and size compared to the hero

 

[Armorchompy]

Hexagoon’s footsteps shakes the Hexagoon

Not really quantifiable

Lost Soul’s Self Destruction

Sure, how tall are the protagonists? (if not known age helps)

The Freezing power of Crack

Eeh, lot of work for not much result.

Lleviathan Whips up a tidal wave

Dunno if it's really quantifiable, ig you could do KE of the water but it's not very fast so it wouldn't give much

Leviathan’s Tail swipe and size compared to the hero

Tail swipe would be kinda weird given it's rotating, which requires a formula of its own. I can do GPE of the Leviathan itself but it won't give too much I think

 

[Armorchompy]

Dragon Quest XI - Tentacular Launches a Ship

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Winter]

Dragon Quest XI - Tentacular Launches a Ship

vsbattles.fandom.com

W

 

[Armorchompy]

Dragon Quest V - The Magma Staff's Power

vsbattles.fandom.com

holy shit

 

[Winter]

Dragon Quest V - The Magma Staff's Power

vsbattles.fandom.com

holy shit

Wth. Multi Continental for a mountian busting feat?!?! I’ll take it

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Nice!

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Woah, there's a DQ revival thread? Thank God.

Hopefully I can go back to being active and help out with DQ. I'll probably first try and start with Dai.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Dragon Quest V - The Magma Staff's Power

vsbattles.fandom.com

holy shit

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

So what's happened up until now?

 

[Abysswalker2126]

Not really quantifiable

Sure, how tall are the protagonists? (if not known age helps)

Eeh, lot of work for not much result.

Dunno if it's really quantifiable, ig you could do KE of the water but it's not very fast so it wouldn't give much

Tail swipe would be kinda weird given it's rotating, which requires a formula of its own. I can do GPE of the Leviathan itself but it won't give too much I think

the protagonist is likely around the same (Physical) age as the majority of DQ protagonists which is 16-18

 

[Winter]

So what's happened up until now?

Random discussions mostly. Discussed a few feats and debated on whether erdrick trilogy scales to the rest of the verse. Discord discussion provided a bunch (although I don’t agree with a bunch of it)

Discord discussion had 2-B, likely 2-A rating, whole bunch of hax for light and dark duality stuff, etc.

 

[Abysswalker2126]

DQ9 SPOILERS

Would it be reasonable to give the Ragin’ Contagion a possibly 4-A key despite being early game? In the story the Hero doesn’t actually defeat the Ragin Contagion they simply keep it distracted until the Doctor your escorting could repair the pot that could seal it away before it was sealed away.Later on down the line in the post game you learn that The ragin contagion was created to ensure that a nameless terror could not escape its tomb which revealed to be King Godfrey the father of King Godwyn which you then have to fight as the post game hero.

so Ragin Contagion = King Godfrey = Post-Game Hero?

 

[Winter]

DQ9 SPOILERS

Would it be reasonable to give the Ragin’ Contagion a possibly 4-A key despite being early game? In the story the Hero doesn’t actually defeat the Ragin Contagion they simply keep it distracted until the Doctor your escorting could repair the pot that could seal it away before it was sealed away.Later on down the line in the post game you learn that The ragin contagion was created to ensure that a nameless terror could not escape its tomb which revealed to be King Godfrey the father of King Godwyn which you then have to fight as the post game hero.

so Ragin Contagion = King Godfrey = Post-Game Hero?

You should put spoiler over it if you plan to prevent spoiling such.

Either way, DQ 11 most likely makes every end-game DQ the multiversal tier, so yea. Idk enough about DQ9 to confirm or deny this. I’d have to find a playthrough to find all the feats for DQ7 and DQ9. I have knowledge of everything else other than the anime/mangas and a majority of the spin offs excluding Builders and Heroes series.

 

[Winter]

I’d also like someone else to give their opinion of these blogs and some profiles. They propose higher tiers, hax, and other stuff. I’ve had disagreements with the creator and I’ve struggled debating it. So I’d at least like to see some other people’s opinions.

Dragon Quest: The Consistency of Tier 2

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Multiverse

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Dragon Quest: The Nature of Light and Darkness

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Erdrick (Arus & Irin)

The King declaring Arus/Irin as worthy of the title "Erdrick" Arus, more formally known as Erdrick is the main protagonist of Dragon Quest III and is the face of Dragon Quest as a series. He is the son of Ortega who was sent to destroy the Archfiend Baramos before he could spread darkness to the...

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

The Goddess (Dragon Quest)

The Goddess is the supreme goddess of Dragon Quest, being a primordial entity of "light" who exists to provide balance of the multiverse. Before there was creation, The Goddess was one of the two spirits that emerged from the chaotic void, in which she would create The Realm of Light, which...

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

Zoma

Zoma is the main antagonist of Dragon Quest III and is one of the most iconic, reoccurring villains in the Dragon Quest series. In the original game, Zoma is described as a Master Archfiend of the Dark World, being it's ruler and the dark analog to The Goddess's light and also a notoriously...

omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com

 

[Winter]

Bump

 

[Armorchompy]

I’d also like someone else to give their opinion of these blogs and some profiles. They propose higher tiers, hax, and other stuff. I’ve had disagreements with the creator and I’ve struggled debating it. So I’d at least like to see some other people’s opinions.

Dragon Quest: The Consistency of Tier 2

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Ah, SBN. Well, here are my thoughts about the blogs, as briefly as possible:

• Mortamor: This feels like it may be overtime or just not even be absorption of the full universes. May make more sense with context.
• Rhapthorne: He's just planning to rule over both of them and make them identical. Nothing says he's actually joining together or even transforming the universes.
• End of Time: I don't really see what the first scan is supposed to imply, maybe it's a context thing? That said it a "multiverse" shares a space-time continuum I'm pretty sure that just makes the whole thing Low 2-C lol. Linking to wiki pages rather than the actual statements means I can't address the actual "feats" though.
• Estark: First scan doesn't work, but the "transcending dimensions" stuff is way too vague for us to use it, even with the wording quoted. As support, I could see it. Otherwise? Nah.

None of the feats above really seem like they scale to physicals from context presented, either.

Dragon Quest: The Multiverse

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I don't really see the WoL implication in the DQH bit, "realm" can mean anything and the fact that the World of Light has been referred to as such in the past doesn't mean that this is referring to it, given that the term's pretty versatile. I'm not fully sold on all of reality being comprised by the two either, no scans here really imply that, though maybe that's just really obvious if you've played enough of the games. I think the cosmology being overall 2-B is acceptable though.

"Infinite" blackness or evil means basically nothing, something can be infinite on a 3D scale and honestly even then it's a stretch. I don't think this necessarily implies that it's infinite in regards to specifically the Realm of Light, I honestly can't see the statement as anything but some random descriptor. Hyperbole, if you will. I don't even know if it's talking about the Realm of Darkness here, is it something obvious within the context of DQB?

The DQH Yggdrasil scan honestly seems to be an anti-feat if anything, given that it's clearly bound to one world and one world only. And the DQ11 one doesn't seem to imply anything in the regard of Yggdrasil containing the Void/Darkness, here it just seems like it takes you to it. I also don't see any evidence that all magic works like the one seen here, in fact it seems to be something unique to that one character. And I just don't see any evidence that it can be inherently utilized to enhance one's physical stats here, none at all. The mandala stuff I also don't think is concrete enough for any tiering.

Dragon Quest: The Nature of Light and Darkness

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If this is the only scan of this guy creating the World of Darkness, then I must disagree, given that it mentions the "ground" and "bodies" that went into it, here it seems more like he didn't physically create the realm, he just dictated its current status by taking it over. It'd be hard for either of those to be relevant during a creation of a universe. It also doesn't seem like they're forces that govern reality from the DQH scan, it just seems like the two gods actively made a path not to get in each other's territory, while the DQ11 scan just seems like some vague philosophical talk about good and evil, nothing really suggests it's an actual law of the universe.

Void stuff, Calasmos says he's born from the void, which is the opposite of it being an extension of him, I'm not sure what that's coming from. NEP seems fine for the void, and possibly Calasmos as a consequence, though. I don't see anything in the good and evil scans that actually implies they're exclusive to one or the other though.

The darkness and light thing must both exists bit seems legit, though I think both Calasmos and Orgodemir are just resurrecting through their soul. I don't see an issue with a NEP being having a soul, the fact that they do have physical bodies already makes it clear that they're clearly a bit of an abstraction of the concept. I wouldn't assume they don't have souls.

I can't address everything in the "Darkness and Light abilities" bit given that some things don't have scans but:

• Concept Manip is weak FRA, morality/empathic has no scans attached, none of the space manip scans actually directly reference the darkness, dream stuff is fine, darkness consuming one's soul is clearly not literal and just meant to be some "don't succumb to fear" BS and corruption is pretty straightforward.
• I don't think the DQ6 void stuff really means anything here. Acausality has no scans.
• The Creation stuff is particularly sus, not only is it clearly something unique to the builder rather than something everyone associated with Light gets (Light isn't even mentioned) but isn't the game literally just Minecraft? That premise wouldn't make sense if you could create things from nothingness, nor does the scan actually imply that.
• The DQH scan once again confuses me because I see zero mention of the purifying soul stuff, Poof seems like BFR actually, given it says it "forces them out of combat" and you don't get EXP. Regen Negation makes absolutely no sense given that the regen that is allegedly being negated does come from the darkness stuff that is mentioned to not be negated in the same breath. Morality and empathic don't seem to have any evidence.
• Magic seems wrong FRA and the evolution stuff not only is just an in-verse theory by some scientist that's never proven right, but is seemingly referring to IRL evolution, so out of those only bio manip would be viable, and only for the Goddess herself since nothing mentions that it's shared by all Light people here.

TLDR: The level of research is commendable but I don't think most things here work for VSBW standards.

 

[Winter]

Ah, SBN. Well, here are my thoughts about the blogs, as briefly as possible:

• Mortamor: This feels like it may be overtime or just not even be absorption of the full universes. May make more sense with context.
• Rhapthorne: He's just planning to rule over both of them and make them identical. Nothing says he's actually joining together or even transforming the universes.
• End of Time: I don't really see what the first scan is supposed to imply, maybe it's a context thing? That said it a "multiverse" shares a space-time continuum I'm pretty sure that just makes the whole thing Low 2-C lol. Linking to wiki pages rather than the actual statements means I can't address the actual "feats" though.
• Estark: First scan doesn't work, but the "transcending dimensions" stuff is way too vague for us to use it, even with the wording quoted. As support, I could see it. Otherwise? Nah.

None of the feats above really seem like they scale to physicals from context presented, either.

I don't really see the WoL implication in the DQH bit, "realm" can mean anything and the fact that the World of Light has been referred to as such in the past doesn't mean that this is referring to it, given that the term's pretty versatile. I'm not fully sold on all of reality being comprised by the two either, no scans here really imply that, though maybe that's just really obvious if you've played enough of the games. I think the cosmology being overall 2-B is acceptable though.

"Infinite" blackness or evil means basically nothing, something can be infinite on a 3D scale and honestly even then it's a stretch. I don't think this necessarily implies that it's infinite in regards to specifically the Realm of Light, I honestly can't see the statement as anything but some random descriptor. Hyperbole, if you will. I don't even know if it's talking about the Realm of Darkness here, is it something obvious within the context of DQB?

The DQH Yggdrasil scan honestly seems to be an anti-feat if anything, given that it's clearly bound to one world and one world only. And the DQ11 one doesn't seem to imply anything in the regard of Yggdrasil containing the Void/Darkness, here it just seems like it takes you to it. I also don't see any evidence that all magic works like the one seen here, in fact it seems to be something unique to that one character. And I just don't see any evidence that it can be inherently utilized to enhance one's physical stats here, none at all. The mandala stuff I also don't think is concrete enough for any tiering.

If this is the only scan of this guy creating the World of Darkness, then I must disagree, given that it mentions the "ground" and "bodies" that went into it, here it seems more like he didn't physically create the realm, he just dictated its current status by taking it over. It'd be hard for either of those to be relevant during a creation of a universe. It also doesn't seem like they're forces that govern reality from the DQH scan, it just seems like the two gods actively made a path not to get in each other's territory, while the DQ11 scan just seems like some vague philosophical talk about good and evil, nothing really suggests it's an actual law of the universe.

Void stuff, Calasmos says he's born from the void, which is the opposite of it being an extension of him, I'm not sure what that's coming from. NEP seems fine for the void, and possibly Calasmos as a consequence, though. I don't see anything in the good and evil scans that actually implies they're exclusive to one or the other though.

The darkness and light thing must both exists bit seems legit, though I think both Calasmos and Orgodemir are just resurrecting through their soul. I don't see an issue with a NEP being having a soul, the fact that they do have physical bodies already makes it clear that they're clearly a bit of an abstraction of the concept. I wouldn't assume they don't have souls.

I can't address everything in the "Darkness and Light abilities" bit given that some things don't have scans but:

• Concept Manip is weak FRA, morality/empathic has no scans attached, none of the space manip scans actually directly reference the darkness, dream stuff is fine, darkness consuming one's soul is clearly not literal and just meant to be some "don't succumb to fear" BS and corruption is pretty straightforward.
• I don't think the DQ6 void stuff really means anything here. Acausality has no scans.
• The Creation stuff is particularly sus, not only is it clearly something unique to the builder rather than something everyone associated with Light gets (Light isn't even mentioned) but isn't the game literally just Minecraft? That premise wouldn't make sense if you could create things from nothingness, nor does the scan actually imply that.
• The DQH scan once again confuses me because I see zero mention of the purifying soul stuff, Poof seems like BFR actually, given it says it "forces them out of combat" and you don't get EXP. Regen Negation makes absolutely no sense given that the regen that is allegedly being negated does come from the darkness stuff that is mentioned to not be negated in the same breath. Morality and empathic don't seem to have any evidence.
• Magic seems wrong FRA and the evolution stuff not only is just an in-verse theory by some scientist that's never proven right, but is seemingly referring to IRL evolution, so out of those only bio manip would be viable, and only for the Goddess herself since nothing mentions that it's shared by all Light people here.

TLDR: The level of research is commendable but I don't think most things here work for VSBW standards.

Thank you for evaluating these. I do see some sense in his arguments (like the feats, although whether they are scaled to that 2-B rating or not depends) but just to clear some things up and provide context:

Mortamor: The scan does say he is going to consume more worlds. Overtime maybe, but at the least excluding other cosmology stuff, it’d be at least 2-C given his realm is in between two others so I’d say 2 universes at least. Including Dream world stuff, it may be 2-B

Rhapthorne: He has directly said he was going to merge the world of light and darkness during a monologue and was also said in a book in the Black Citadel, which he created.

End of Time: Agreed. Idk how that implies he’s affecting the multiverse.

Estark: For supporting the rating, I agree it doesn’t. But the statement (which has been stated pretty consistently), would at least support some form of immeasurable speed given the whole “transcends time.”

I mean, you could argue physicals scale to magic but I’m not sure if those qualify as magic

2-B seems the most obvious here for the size of the world of light. I’m iffy on 2-A. Not sure how this connects to the world of light, but it may imply each world is potentially 2-B in size.

Infinite blackness is something I’m not sure how to take. It seems more of just a dramatic element rather than something serious. It’s just a statement in the end

Yggdrasil is meh. I mean, it can be argued in the case of DQ11 world, but it doesn’t really apply to anywhere else. Besides, not all yggdrasil’s are the same. Not sure how I feel about the rest of the stuff stated.

Going off the scan, he both created it and dictated it. The worlds of dark and light were meant to separate each thing due to how chaotic it was having them together in the same realm if you connect the library scan of the two worlds united.

NEP makes sense for Calasmos to have. Abstract makes some sense given Calasmos’ death statement that “darkness can’t exist without light.” I’d assume it’s like a Bill Cipher thing (the different form, different time statement) where different forms of darkness come as a result of light still existing. Not sure if this applies to Calasmos or darkness as a whole, but idk what you can get out of it.

From what Neo says, spirit ≠ soul using its second definition that it represents “other qualities of a person” rather than their soul. Honestly I could see it being either or, depending on how you see spirit defined. It’s at least be Low Godly though from what I can see.

Concept is pretty weak and light and dark aren’t stated to be abstract so agree. Other stuff I’d need to look into but I’m speeding through this.

Void references Darkness being non existent I think. Acasuality refers to Estark I'm pretty sure.

Honestly seems like construction literally just being Minecraft and following the same principles that you need stuff to make stuff. SBN assumes creation and destruction refer to light and darkness.

Agreed on the first two. Regen negation comes from the fact that heroes can kill the ones with regen without them regening back + assuming they’re all abstracts of darkness (which I disagree with)

SoE honestly makes sense but not for that scan. It’s an in-universe thing Estark and Psaro use to transform into monsters. The latter uses it mid combat to strengthen his legs, regen arms and head, generate spikes on himself, etc.

 

[Armorchompy]

Mortamor: The scan does say he is going to consume more worlds. Overtime maybe, but at the least excluding other cosmology stuff, it’d be at least 2-C given his realm is in between two others so I’d say 2 universes at least. Including Dream world stuff, it may be 2-B

I mean if it's overtime it's just Low 2-C even if actual universes are confirmed to be affected

Rhapthorne: He has directly said he was going to merge the world of light and darkness during a monologue and was also said in a book in the Black Citadel, which he created.

Alright

Estark: For supporting the rating, I agree it doesn’t. But the statement (which has been stated pretty consistently), would at least support some form of immeasurable speed given the whole “transcends time.”

Eh, if there's other, stronger evidence, maybe.

I mean, you could argue physicals scale to magic but I’m not sure if those qualify as magic

They probably do just via standard scaling of you get hit by thing you survive thing but I wouldn't consider that a rule.

2-B seems the most obvious here for the size of the world of light. I’m iffy on 2-A. Not sure how this connects to the world of light, but it may imply each world is potentially 2-B in size.

I dunno if I'm really sold on WoL containing half of the cosmology like that, what I've seen (which might very well not be the best evidence eh) isn't really indicative of that.

Yggdrasil is meh. I mean, it can be argued in the case of DQ11 world, but it doesn’t really apply to anywhere else. Besides, not all yggdrasil’s are the same. Not sure how I feel about the rest of the stuff stated.

I feel like if it were to actually contain the Void and stuff you might be able to argue Low 1-C but eeeeeeeeeeeeeh

Going off the scan, he both created it and dictated it. The worlds of dark and light were meant to separate each thing due to how chaotic it was having them together in the same realm if you connect the library scan of the two worlds united.

I disagree, the actions are implied to be one and the same given that it's created BY crushing those below him, which imo just seems like he rules over it.

NEP makes sense for Calasmos to have. Abstract makes some sense given Calasmos’ death statement that “darkness can’t exist without light.” I’d assume it’s like a Bill Cipher thing (the different form, different time statement) where different forms of darkness come as a result of light still existing. Not sure if this applies to Calasmos or darkness as a whole, but idk what you can get out of it.

I dunno BC but I think that's arguable, yeah.

From what Neo says, spirit ≠ soul using its second definition that it represents “other qualities of a person” rather than their soul. Honestly I could see it being either or, depending on how you see spirit defined. It’s at least be Low Godly though from what I can see.

Meh, I don't think so (about the spirit stuff, Low Godly is fine although it'd be res, not regen), I haven't seen any evidence of that at least, but usually I've seen spirit assumed to be the same thing as a soul.

Void references Darkness being non existent I think. Acasuality refers to Estark I'm pretty sure.

Fair enough

SoE honestly makes sense but not for that scan. It’s an in-universe thing Estark and Psaro use to transform into monsters. The latter uses it mid combat to strengthen his legs, regen arms and head, generate spikes on himself, etc.

Ah, alright. That'd be either awakened power, transformation or reactive evo, depending on their specific portrayal.