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- #81
Idk what being a demon has to deal with the immortality but the latter statement seems cool. Just try to link a scan of the stuff is all
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Dragon Quest Revival Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Winter
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Demon’s in dragon quest lore naturally live forever
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For some reason it’s missing Her victimiser skill
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- #85
Where does it say? I looked into her a little, she does have some form of a Longevity feat (it’s been 500 years since she turned the Right Knight into the Wight Knight)
Use the fandom version for abilities and spells, use the other for resistances and more lore explanation.
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Added some stuff
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- #87
Looks good. Making profiles on minor bosses seems pretty cool to expand the verse on
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Following back up about the Zoma talk, Once again correct me if I'm wrong but Zoma is stronger when he broke the Sword then he was when he fought Rubiss right? Like he sealed away Alefgard so he could get stronger by feeding off the fear of the people he trapped and it took him years to get strong enough to break the sword right?
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- #89
Yea, not sure about that one. Don’t recall this ever being mentioned in-game
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Ok I’ve reached the point where I think it’s time to try and pinpoint earlygame dq9 stats
some possible things we could use to scale AP/Dura are The Hexigoon’s footsteps causing the Hexigon to shake,The AP of Frizz, AP of Bang,AP of Woosh, The Freezing power of Crack and Crackle, The Lost Soul’s Self Destruct explosion
can we use the animations from older and newer games for the same spell to scale something?
a good speed/reactions feat is the protagonist and co being able to block/dodge a Lunatick’s Paralaser early game which seems to be a Light speed attack
some possible things we could use to scale AP/Dura are The Hexigoon’s footsteps causing the Hexigon to shake,The AP of Frizz, AP of Bang,AP of Woosh, The Freezing power of Crack and Crackle, The Lost Soul’s Self Destruct explosion
can we use the animations from older and newer games for the same spell to scale something?
a good speed/reactions feat is the protagonist and co being able to block/dodge a Lunatick’s Paralaser early game which seems to be a Light speed attack
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If we use spell AP, it should probably use that game’s spell. Spells have shown to behave differently or have alternate effects in different universes (Examples of this include DQ11’s crackle, which is just a bunch of falling crystals while other games’ crackle are much more violent and DQH crackle causes a freezing effect)
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Aren't the Trolls in DQ9 bestiary said to be mountain level? Maybe we can calc the force needed to break the mountains in the areas they spawn in?
"These enormous enemies' attacks are enough to level mountains. Beware of the bothersome Bagsy Last."
"These enormous enemies' attacks are enough to level mountains. Beware of the bothersome Bagsy Last."
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There are plenty of Massively FTL+ speed feats in Dragon Quest X also, that even fodder characters perform regularly.
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They appear in Mt. Ulzuun a mountain range northeast of Iluugazar Plains but I’m not sure if they’re considered early game or mid game
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Generally what's been the main dividing point for what's considered Early Game and Mid Game? Is it player level or specific points in each games story ?
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I’m not sure what the wiki standards are when it comes to deciding that but I’d assume story first level second because when it comes to any game with a level system you can always become over leveled or under leveled
how I’d divide Dq9 would be early game would be
Start of game to first 3 phyggs collected
mid game would be
collecting the 4 remaining phyggs
late game
Wormwood creek to the Final battle against Corvus
alternative late game
Post-Gortress to the final battle against Corvus
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- #97
I’m not as familiar with DQ9, so you guys might need to figure it out. Leveling could work given there is a type of Accelerated Dev that deals with leveling (every protag should have this)
I’ll list necessary scaling and keys for some of the protags
DQ1 Hero keys:
Base | With Erdrick Equipment
Tier: 9-B | TBD
9-B comes from upscaling from various monsters that can tank weapons. Green Dragon and Golem are arguably size 0 and Golem looks like a visually obvious 9-B candidate. Still need to figure out if Erdrick Trilogy is High 6-A or 2-C
DQ2 Protag Keys:
It seems the boost in power is the change from regular equipment to magical equipment when they find the worn Sword of Kings. They would eventually scale up to whatever god tier rating is and this is the one alternative I can think of. They should also be 9-Bish via monster scaling chains. Moonbrooke should be 9-C physically (Can still harm weaker monsters at the bottom of said scaling chains), 9-B with Magic
Key: Early Game | Mid-Late Game
Tier: 9-B | TBD
DQ3 Protag:
This is where most feats come in.
Mid-Game should start around when they fight the Orochi as they gain a heavy strength boost from the Orochi Sword and have other stuff on par. They have a eruption feat via Mountaincleaver sword (either a durability feat via standing next to the crater to drop the sword or I have better equipment than this feat)
Late Game is obvious. Early game also has another monster scaling thing. The Wrecking Ball should be calculated as apart of their optional equipment
Key: Early Game | Mid-Game | Late Game/With Erdrick Equipment
Tier: 9-B, TBA with Wrecking Ball | TBA (Mountaincleaver needs a calc) | TBD (High 6-A or 2-C)
DQ4 Protag:
Now we’re at the point where mostly everything is feat based
Early game protags should scale to Alena who is capable of wall busting feats (Did it once to a stone castle wall to break out of her room, another to wooden planks). Mages and non-physically oriented party members scale to 9-C
Mid-Game scales to the Magma Staff, who should carry the same feat from DQ5 given they’re in the same universe. In DQ4, it’s also capable of making volcanos erupt (if i remember the moment correctly). Mages and such should either physically scale to 9-B or downscale from Magma Staff (Depending on if you wanna argue in-game Damage or they just scale to a weaker level of the feat). Don’t attempt to scale weakened Estark to the Zenithian Equipment, they weren’t blessed at the time.
Late Game is 2-C
Keys: Early Game | Mid Game | Late Game
Tier: 9-C/TBA (Alena wall bust needs calced, probably 9-B tho) | TBA (Magma Staff needs calced) | 2-C
DQ5 Protags:
1st Gen should be 9-C via fighting weak monsters (Slimes should scale to DQ4 given same universe)
Pankraz should scale to the Magma Staff feat given he could defeat Slon and Kon
2nd gen scales to Magma Staff. Keep in mind they didn’t have the Magma Staff yet, which wouldn’t make sense to scale them there, but there are monsters they do fight in this gen called Hellions, who are fought in DQ4 when they had the Magma Staff. So 2nd Gen is around there
3rd gen is 2-C. Befriendable Monsters should have a varies tier up to 2-C at their strongest
Key: 1st Generation | 2nd Generation | 3rd Generation
Tier: 9-C | TBA (Magma Staff Calc needed) | 2-C
Monster Edition:
Key: Insert regular in the wild key | Varies from 9-C to 2-C (Depending on the monster the former tier may vary)
DQ6
I genuinely forget most of their feats. Best I can think of is monster scaling to 9-B. Either that or for some reason they start at 2-C for fighting Murdaw but what was the statement that made him the strongest Dread Fiend?
If the Superhuman tier is used, the mages can scale to it via Alltrades Abbey, otherwise they are 9-C
Idk shiz about DQ7
DQ8
The early game is probably before they fight Dhoulmagus. The feats we have are Eight and Yangus defeating a giant Squid and Yangus destroying a bridge (when he and guv first met)
If the latter could get calced, that’d be helpful but they could likely scale to 9-B until Yangus gets calced. Jessica has actual physical stats via whips so she could scale to that
Mid-Game has a very solid feat where Marchello (possessed by Rhapthorne), destroyed the Goddess Statue in the Isle of Neos. This would scale Dhoulmagus and any of the Staff’s victims to whatever that was.
Late game is probably where they got to the Dragovian Sanctuary. 2-C scaling
Keys: Early Game | Mid-Game | End of Game
Tier: Presumably 9-B (Yangus might a calc. Should be 9-B from Monster Scaling for an alternative or via upscaling from Yangus) | TBA (Marchello can destroy Neos, needs a calc) | 2-C
Idk enough about DQ9 to scale it. The Hero did fall from heaven and shook the world which could be a 9-B feat but idk if that would apply to his mortal form
DQ11
Act 1 seems to scale to 8-B via Krystalinda freezing Sniflehiem so no change there.
Act 2 reasoning sucks and should be 2-C. Erdwin’s Lantern isn’t a universe, it’s a seal. Sword of Light should still be somewhat comparable to End of Time who is superior his minions. Morcant absorbed Calasmos’ power to become Mordegon, which should make him somewhat comparable. He also has Luminary powers, so that’s that.
Act 3 is also 2-C via End of Time scaling
Key: Act 1 | Act 2 | Act 3
Tier: 8-B | 2-C | 2-C
That’s how we should do the Hero scaling. I’ll send links if anyone wants to do the calcs (they are pretty necessary)
I was thinking of putting at least 2-C for the strongest dudes given The Goddess is hardly shown feat wise. Keep in mind we wanna take our time with these, so we can try and do 3 separate CRTs for different parts of the verse (Erdrick Trilogy first, Zenithian Second, Everything Else for the third)
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Given the "Countless Universes" statements from Dragon Quest Heroes which is canon, the 2-C's could be replaced with 2-B. And there are other similar statements in DQ11 iirc about "Countless Worlds".
Also, I still think Erdrick Trilogy god tiers should scale from DQXI god tiers for other reasons that remains consistent with how strong DQH characters are combined with there being strong implications that all end game bosses were reincarnations of Calasmos. But Zoma breaking the Sword of Kings (Super Sword of Light) is consistent measure. And Dragon Quest Builders also has Dracolord being implied to be comparable to "The Goddess" according to one of FanofRPGs statements iirc. Or that might have also been Dragon Quest Heroes.
I do agree that Mordegon should just be part of the Multiversal scaling outright since even a regular Sword of Light is strong enough to kill Calasmos originally, the Lantern thing didn't make sense as a Low 2-C feat to begin with, and the Time Orb thing is durable to the point where not even Calasmos or Mordegon could break it but regular Sword of Light could but only if striking hard enough to break itself in the process. And Super Sword of Light can shattering that without breaking. Mordegon also wielded the Sword of Darkness, which was basically a corrupted version Super Sword of Light. The Luminary defeats him using the regular Sword of Light too, so scaling chains are still within the same ballpark.
For early mid game stuff, I don't think the alleged 8-B calcs for XI were calculated. There was the freezing of the kingdom, but there's also Kraken tossing large ships sky high which also wasn't properly calculated.
Other early/mid game stuff can also come from various common spells. Zap does have evidence of being real lightning, so simply casting it is 8-C via magic. Note, tanking the spell is arguably not durability, but it is still evidence of 8-C via magic. Which could scale to the AP of other spells including the Boom elemental spells via UES properties and in turn the durability of the targets. Lightning spells introduced in the Zenithian trilogy take it up further my making it literally an entire thunderstorm. So there is also some Low 7-B feats to also be included in the magic/UES scaling department. There are also works saying Dragon Quest does have its own UES in which physicals and magical abilities are canonically comparable.
I will also share this with the Discord conference I am in.
Also, I still think Erdrick Trilogy god tiers should scale from DQXI god tiers for other reasons that remains consistent with how strong DQH characters are combined with there being strong implications that all end game bosses were reincarnations of Calasmos. But Zoma breaking the Sword of Kings (Super Sword of Light) is consistent measure. And Dragon Quest Builders also has Dracolord being implied to be comparable to "The Goddess" according to one of FanofRPGs statements iirc. Or that might have also been Dragon Quest Heroes.
I do agree that Mordegon should just be part of the Multiversal scaling outright since even a regular Sword of Light is strong enough to kill Calasmos originally, the Lantern thing didn't make sense as a Low 2-C feat to begin with, and the Time Orb thing is durable to the point where not even Calasmos or Mordegon could break it but regular Sword of Light could but only if striking hard enough to break itself in the process. And Super Sword of Light can shattering that without breaking. Mordegon also wielded the Sword of Darkness, which was basically a corrupted version Super Sword of Light. The Luminary defeats him using the regular Sword of Light too, so scaling chains are still within the same ballpark.
For early mid game stuff, I don't think the alleged 8-B calcs for XI were calculated. There was the freezing of the kingdom, but there's also Kraken tossing large ships sky high which also wasn't properly calculated.
Other early/mid game stuff can also come from various common spells. Zap does have evidence of being real lightning, so simply casting it is 8-C via magic. Note, tanking the spell is arguably not durability, but it is still evidence of 8-C via magic. Which could scale to the AP of other spells including the Boom elemental spells via UES properties and in turn the durability of the targets. Lightning spells introduced in the Zenithian trilogy take it up further my making it literally an entire thunderstorm. So there is also some Low 7-B feats to also be included in the magic/UES scaling department. There are also works saying Dragon Quest does have its own UES in which physicals and magical abilities are canonically comparable.
I will also share this with the Discord conference I am in.
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I’ll reply in a bit. Can I have a link to the Discord conference? I wouldn’t mind discussing that in there. If not, that’s fine
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I have asked the conference founder, maybe he'll respond.
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I've been Curious if Golems being able to destroy large areas of blocks in one punch in Builders could be used to scale early game tiers of other games a bit higher,
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Given how the strength of monsters heavily vary between universes, that would make only work for the Builders series. Example being Black Dragons in DQ11 are far more powerful in the DQ5 universe.
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Though the Builders series is just an alternate timeline of the Erdrick series correct?
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I posted a calc request for early game DQ9 just waiting for things to be calculated
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Lightning is 8-C?
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A link to some dq9 early game feats
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Say, I know this is not quite the focus of the conversation, but I did take notes of the Dai no Daibouken manga up to chapter 128 if they are of any use in the future. So thought I'd share them.
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I'm a fan of the DQ series but I've really only played DQ9 and I'm halfway through 11 so apologies if I say some stupid shit but
1. How exactly does the timeline work in DQ as a whole? I thought every game was its own continuity and had no relation to any other besides non-canon superboss cameos and outfits
2. Why is DQ9 scaled differently from every other game?
1. How exactly does the timeline work in DQ as a whole? I thought every game was its own continuity and had no relation to any other besides non-canon superboss cameos and outfits
2. Why is DQ9 scaled differently from every other game?
Magicomethkuon
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Why is this in Q&A instead of Discussions?
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I honestly don’t know I guess they only believe DQ9 scales to the almighty’s daughter making the celestians stars
I think it should be multiversal like the other games via post game as the hero and friends was capable of fighting Nokturnus and Estark
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Right now I’m trying to get early DQ9 feats calced so I can finish profiles for the early game DQ9 bosses but nobody called them yet
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It started with a question which turned into a discussion
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This assumption is only valid if none of the DQ universes are related to each other, and each follows its own rules and power scaling
But several profiles link other games together, which contradicts that
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also, if no one minds, can I also help out with changing the profiles?
I don't have much exp doing the math behind calculations but I grew up with Dragon Quest, and this sounds pretty fun
I don't have much exp doing the math behind calculations but I grew up with Dragon Quest, and this sounds pretty fun
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If you’re doing edits to profiles it’s a good idea to check with staff to review potential additions or Changes
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DQ10 is implied to be the same universe as 9 but in the future and has some really juicy bits that can be used to upgrade certain profiles however the problem is that it’s in Japanese
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