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Dragon Ball Super: Episode 131 Upgrades
- Thread starter KingPin0422
- Start date
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@AKM and @Unite
Likewise.
Likewise.
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@Kukui, Ryu, Kep
Implying hax =/= AP. Example: Zen'o. Making him "Unknown" is ridiculous. Physical strength does not trump energy output or abilities.
Zeno: It can do anything. It can grant anything.
Goku: We've ALL broken our limits here.
Everything else is stubbornness.
Implying hax =/= AP. Example: Zen'o. Making him "Unknown" is ridiculous. Physical strength does not trump energy output or abilities.
Zeno: It can do anything. It can grant anything.
Goku: We've ALL broken our limits here.
Everything else is stubbornness.
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Don't forget everyone still believes Zeno>Everyone
Zeno> Super Shenron :^)
Zeno> Super Shenron :^)
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A sayian has no limits
Goku is Omnipotent confirmed
Goku is Omnipotent confirmed
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Punching Power = Striking Strength. That has nothing to do with AP. It's likely Zen'o couldn't do UI crazy moves and whatnot so he can't be 2-C? I'm sorry, but that's kind of a ridiculous argument. Characters who are 2-C based entirely on hax like Monika are just straight 2-C, but the dragon shows a feat like that and an arbitrary size feat is valued over it.
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what I'm trying to say is don't take every statement face value.
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There's a designated Stricking Strength stat for that though. But their tier comes down to how powerful a character is, regardless of how they wield that power.Ryukama said:
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"A saiyan has no limits"Megamangohan said:
"Earth has Goku"
Toei is aware of everything :^) Omniscient and omnipresent Toei
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How about this, then? 3-B Normally, 2-C with wishes
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Except you can't put energy into a wish, which is strictly hax based.....
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It's not hyperbole when it can literally grant any wish within the context of Dragon Ball, and when the capabilities of the wish-granting are directly tied to the dragon's constitution. I'm saying "At least 3-B, likely 2-C. 2-C with wish-granting" is more accurate than simply denying the likely energy output the dragon is physically capable of utilizing.
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You need energy to do anything, by definition of what energy is.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
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Super Shenron could not grant Zamasu proper immortality. Zeno was able to kill him anyways. His wish granting does have limits.
Again, we're denying something with literally no feats or actually reliable statements supporting it.
Again, we're denying something with literally no feats or actually reliable statements supporting it.
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>could not grant proper immortality
It was Zamasu's own actions that prevented his immortality from being perfect, not the dragon. Case and point: Merging with a human and then amplifying the power of the corruption within him. He still was immortal even after that, though.
>Implying Zen'o killed him
The only thing that was shown to be destroyed was the multiverse itself, and not necessarily any of the realms outside of it. Besides, using Zen'o as a yardstick doesn't take away from the 2-C aspects of the dragon. Same as if Zamasu had become 2-C.
And the "At least 3-B" thing was based off an illusion created by the actual dragon within, and furthermore, the dragon's size varies. You don't need to evaluate "punching strength" off an arbitrary appearance when something far more credible is used instead. Aka like every single other dragon.
It was Zamasu's own actions that prevented his immortality from being perfect, not the dragon. Case and point: Merging with a human and then amplifying the power of the corruption within him. He still was immortal even after that, though.
>Implying Zen'o killed him
The only thing that was shown to be destroyed was the multiverse itself, and not necessarily any of the realms outside of it. Besides, using Zen'o as a yardstick doesn't take away from the 2-C aspects of the dragon. Same as if Zamasu had become 2-C.
And the "At least 3-B" thing was based off an illusion created by the actual dragon within, and furthermore, the dragon's size varies. You don't need to evaluate "punching strength" off an arbitrary appearance when something far more credible is used instead. Aka like every single other dragon.
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Infinite Zamasu doesn't have the limitation of being merged with a mortal.
Zeno absolutely killed Zamasu. That's how that story was resolved. We literally see Zamasu (outside of Trunks's multiverse) get erased.
Super Shenron showed a limit to his wish granting. He couldn't grant someone the ability to survive Zeno.
That giant sized dragon isn't an illusion. That giant dragon is the true dragon, with a small "nucleus" being used for U6 and 7 to communicate with.
Credible? You mean a literal assumption with absolutely no feats or actually reliable statements at all. Again, Super Shenron has no feats or actually reliable statements of physical strength outside of 3-B.
Zeno absolutely killed Zamasu. That's how that story was resolved. We literally see Zamasu (outside of Trunks's multiverse) get erased.
Super Shenron showed a limit to his wish granting. He couldn't grant someone the ability to survive Zeno.
That giant sized dragon isn't an illusion. That giant dragon is the true dragon, with a small "nucleus" being used for U6 and 7 to communicate with.
Credible? You mean a literal assumption with absolutely no feats or actually reliable statements at all. Again, Super Shenron has no feats or actually reliable statements of physical strength outside of 3-B.
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Infinite Zamasu was created due to the corruption within him, though. And the body wouldn't have been able to be destroyed were it not corrupted by Black.
And I wasn't talking about Zamasu. I was talking about the dragon. For that matter, we don't know if the GP or the angels were affected, either.
Tbh, Zamasu didn't ask for that. He just asked for a perfectly immortal self. With no body, it latched on to the multiverse. With no form or thing to occupy, Zamasu dispersed. This is very simple stuff. Zen'o's power erased several universes ENTIRELY and the dragon brought them back effortlessly.
What I'm saying is that the physical strength of the dragon doesn't need to be evaluated, for one, and for two, assuming that its energy can't be applied to its physical power under any means is highly disingenuous.
And I wasn't talking about Zamasu. I was talking about the dragon. For that matter, we don't know if the GP or the angels were affected, either.
Tbh, Zamasu didn't ask for that. He just asked for a perfectly immortal self. With no body, it latched on to the multiverse. With no form or thing to occupy, Zamasu dispersed. This is very simple stuff. Zen'o's power erased several universes ENTIRELY and the dragon brought them back effortlessly.
What I'm saying is that the physical strength of the dragon doesn't need to be evaluated, for one, and for two, assuming that its energy can't be applied to its physical power under any means is highly disingenuous.
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Infinite Zamasu was Zamasu casting aside his body and becoming one with the universe. There isn't a reason why this soul would now have the limitation that his body was having.
And Infinite Zamasu was killed in the process of those universes being destroying. Zeno killed Zamasu.
Nonstop calling things disingenous isn't an argument. Give actual evidence that Super Shenron can throw a multiple universe destroying punch and this is done. Universe restoration hax isn't the equivalent of punching power. This is a statistic indexing site that evaluates all characters' striking strength. Super Shenron has a 3-B feat of striking strength. Until he shows any higher feats of it, it shouldn't be rated higher.
And Infinite Zamasu was killed in the process of those universes being destroying. Zeno killed Zamasu.
Nonstop calling things disingenous isn't an argument. Give actual evidence that Super Shenron can throw a multiple universe destroying punch and this is done. Universe restoration hax isn't the equivalent of punching power. This is a statistic indexing site that evaluates all characters' striking strength. Super Shenron has a 3-B feat of striking strength. Until he shows any higher feats of it, it shouldn't be rated higher.
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I am personally fine with the profiles the way they are. I am in agreement with Ryu.
Although, I think since Whis' ability comes from his staff, it should be scaled to other angels as well. And hakaishin Toppo's abilities should also scale to other hakaishins but that's for another thread I guess.
Although, I think since Whis' ability comes from his staff, it should be scaled to other angels as well. And hakaishin Toppo's abilities should also scale to other hakaishins but that's for another thread I guess.
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@Ryukama
Can you add the resurrection to the angels profiles?
Can you add the resurrection to the angels profiles?
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Except the fact that the corruption had spread to his very soul, which is reflected by Gowasu.
Did you read my above post? I admitted that that was the case.
And it is disingenuous. You're ignoring my main point that it's AT LEAST 3-B. Saying that it can't also be likely 2-C even though it clearly possesses the ability to "do anything" within the context of the verse is disingenuous. It may have shown a feat like that with eating galaxies and whatnot and its size and all that, but what's to logically say it can't do what it's stated to be able to do, which is "anything"?
Last time I checked, there's lots of very high rated characters that have never punched anyone, and whose feats don't revolve around such a relatively incomparable stat anyway. Should Goku not be Low 2-C because he can't lift a universe?
Did you read my above post? I admitted that that was the case.
And it is disingenuous. You're ignoring my main point that it's AT LEAST 3-B. Saying that it can't also be likely 2-C even though it clearly possesses the ability to "do anything" within the context of the verse is disingenuous. It may have shown a feat like that with eating galaxies and whatnot and its size and all that, but what's to logically say it can't do what it's stated to be able to do, which is "anything"?
Last time I checked, there's lots of very high rated characters that have never punched anyone, and whose feats don't revolve around such a relatively incomparable stat anyway. Should Goku not be Low 2-C because he can't lift a universe?
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We don't give anyone an upgrade without any feats based on a hyperbolic statement of them "being able to do anything". There's nothing Beerus can't destroy. A saiyan's power has no limits. Jiren cannot be defeated no matter what. Let's start upgrading these people too.
All I want is an actual feat that Super Shenron can throw a multiple universe destroying punch. Nothing "disingenous" about wanting evidence before rating people something.
Goku is rated as Low 2-C. His Lifting Strength just isn't universal. Super Shenron is rated as 2-C. His Striking Strength just isn't multiple universal.
All I want is an actual feat that Super Shenron can throw a multiple universe destroying punch. Nothing "disingenous" about wanting evidence before rating people something.
Goku is rated as Low 2-C. His Lifting Strength just isn't universal. Super Shenron is rated as 2-C. His Striking Strength just isn't multiple universal.
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I'm pretty sure there was a guide that stated Infinite Zamasu is Fused Zamasu, and not just Zamasu's soul
Just putting that out there
Just putting that out there
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But AP entirely based on punching is utterly ridiculous. Name one character who can actually PUNCH and have multiple universes be destroyed. That's so ridiculous I'm still having a hard time wrapping my head around it. Especially when it's utterly denying the VERY REASONABLE likelihood of said dragon, were it able to PUNCH, likely being at the same level as the abilities it can utilize.
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Calm down please. There's no reason to be upset. And I hope you know I have no hard feelings.
There are different types of AP. There is physical AP (punching power) and there's hax based AP.
Super Shenron's hax based AP is rated as 2-C. His physical AP is rated as 3-B. Until there is any actual evidence of his physical AP being above what has been shown, it's not going to get upgraded.
There are different types of AP. There is physical AP (punching power) and there's hax based AP.
Super Shenron's hax based AP is rated as 2-C. His physical AP is rated as 3-B. Until there is any actual evidence of his physical AP being above what has been shown, it's not going to get upgraded.
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Well, neither do I. Never do unless someone makes it personal. I just get intense when arguing .-.
And all I'm asking you at this point is to consider a possibly/likely 2-C alongside the At least 3-B. Why is there any reason to assume he's limited by that form.
And all I'm asking you at this point is to consider a possibly/likely 2-C alongside the At least 3-B. Why is there any reason to assume he's limited by that form.
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I think "At least 3-B, possibly/likely higher" is fair enough
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@Ryu
Well, that's what I mean. I don't see why its capabilities have to be limited to one type of showing when Zen'o was very adamant that "It can do anything" and "It can grant anything" - two separate statements. If that's the case, a possibly 2-C rating physically would make sense.
Well, that's what I mean. I don't see why its capabilities have to be limited to one type of showing when Zen'o was very adamant that "It can do anything" and "It can grant anything" - two separate statements. If that's the case, a possibly 2-C rating physically would make sense.
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"It can do anything" and other such statements is very obvious hyperoblic NLF.
That said, the 2-C rating is fine but once again, he still needs a note that specifies the rating is useless in combat for reasons already clarified just like for the other dragons.
That said, the 2-C rating is fine but once again, he still needs a note that specifies the rating is useless in combat for reasons already clarified just like for the other dragons.
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