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Dragon Ball Super: Episode 131 Upgrades
- Thread starter KingPin0422
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1. Anilaza's Low 2-C feat is an outlier, but him destroying people who could defeat or stalemate 17 isn't. So my point still stands. 17 always gets absolutely demolished whenever he fights a Low 2-C, and is considerably inferior to the highest 3-As.
2. Except 17 harming a Low 2-C is a Low 2-C feat. There is no such thing as "High 3-A". That's hiding the outlier, no offense. It being "more reasonable" doesn't change the fact it is both fallacious and unfounded.
2. Except 17 harming a Low 2-C is a Low 2-C feat. There is no such thing as "High 3-A". That's hiding the outlier, no offense. It being "more reasonable" doesn't change the fact it is both fallacious and unfounded.
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@Zenkai From what I read in her profile, Kefla has the feat matching UI Goku and a statement to justify her tier.
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> Post-MUI SSJ1 Goku is Low 2-C / High 3-A Excuse me... What ?
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1. "Considerably inferior to the highest 3-A's"
Uh, since when?
"Him destroying people who could defeat or stalemate 17 isn't"
Give examples. You mean SSJG Goku after he had already broken his limits twice? Doesn't count. 18? Still doesn't count.
2. "No such thing as High 3-A"
excuse me what
"Hiding the outlier"
Oh, you mean that thing that's happened like 10 times now by this point?
You constantly calling my arguments fallacious and unfounded could be argued to be the same.
Additionally, the "no one's powered up" thing could be explained by the above picture of everyone having broken their limits by now. I think that's exactly what we needed, but I can't support anything more than a "Possibly X" rating.
Uh, since when?
"Him destroying people who could defeat or stalemate 17 isn't"
Give examples. You mean SSJG Goku after he had already broken his limits twice? Doesn't count. 18? Still doesn't count.
2. "No such thing as High 3-A"
excuse me what
"Hiding the outlier"
Oh, you mean that thing that's happened like 10 times now by this point?
You constantly calling my arguments fallacious and unfounded could be argued to be the same.
Additionally, the "no one's powered up" thing could be explained by the above picture of everyone having broken their limits by now. I think that's exactly what we needed, but I can't support anything more than a "Possibly X" rating.
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And 17 and Frieza have harming Jiren to justify theirs. Furthermore, Jiren powered back up at that time and the characters said he has gotten past his issues.Homu Sweet Homu said:
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17:
- Got wrecked by a casual and massively suppressed GoD Toppo
- Had to team up with a half-dozen 3-As to match Anilaza, would've gotten destroyed otherwise
- Freeza, who is somewhere in his level, also gets demolished by Toppo with ease
- Only stomps fodders, always struggles or at best defeats mid tier 3-As such as the Universe 6 fighters.
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"10 other outliers" is dishonest, no offense. He only has two at best. Getting destroyed by a Low 2-C isn't a feat.
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@Zenkai Except the fact both of them can do anything to Jiren is the obvious proof at how weakened Jiren is. Means that Weakened Jiren is 3-A.
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I am calling your arguments fallacious because you're making use of a fallacy. If your argument is fallacious, you have to make an effort not to use said fallacy instead of acting like it doesn't matter.
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I could definitely see SSJ God post-MUI being Low 2-C though... Not SSJ1 Goku... As powerful as he likely is.
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Did 17 and Freiza get Zenkai boosts from getting the shit beat out of them? maybe that can explain the jump in power
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Agree with Kepe. Android 17's and Frieza get consistently pushed back, or at the very least keep up evenly with 3-A characters (Pre-ToP Goku, Anilaza, Dyspo, Base Toppo just to name a few). Their Low 2-C feats are clearly P.I.S, coming from writers that had to give the ToP a conclusion and / or had no idea of the gap in power between the 3-A characters and Low 2-C beings.
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That's ignoring that:
Freeza may have been messed up by Toppo, but still got to his feet and was able to fight. 17 at full power, while being knocked out for a while, was able to cancel Jiren's full-powered blast.
>Only stomps fodders
Goku struggled against several opponents while in SSJB/SSJG before as well. Doesn't mean Goku isn't above them, it means he wasn't using his full power, and this new "everyone has broken their limits" thing really cements a "Possibly X" rating.
Also, just saying I'm using fallacies doesn't prove I'm using fallacies when I'm trying to powerscale based off THE SYSTEM WE USE. You calling my arguments fallacies is fallacious in and of itself, and maybe YOU should realize what you're doing.
- Goku also needed to team up to beat Anilaza, in SSJB at full power after beating Kefla and obtaining UI twice (Low 2-C)
- Implying Toppo was suppressed
Freeza may have been messed up by Toppo, but still got to his feet and was able to fight. 17 at full power, while being knocked out for a while, was able to cancel Jiren's full-powered blast.
>Only stomps fodders
Goku struggled against several opponents while in SSJB/SSJG before as well. Doesn't mean Goku isn't above them, it means he wasn't using his full power, and this new "everyone has broken their limits" thing really cements a "Possibly X" rating.
Also, just saying I'm using fallacies doesn't prove I'm using fallacies when I'm trying to powerscale based off THE SYSTEM WE USE. You calling my arguments fallacies is fallacious in and of itself, and maybe YOU should realize what you're doing.
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If not mentioned already, High 3-A is infinetly inferior to Low 2-C, ie a whole dimension apart.
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Yeah at best only SSG would be Low 2-C. The scaling after mastering Ultra Instinct would probably be something like this.The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Mastered UI > Post-MUI SSBKKx20 > Post-Kefla UIO > Post-MUI SSB > Post-Kefla SSBKKx20 > Post-Jiren UIO > Post-MUI SSG > Post-Kefla SSB > Pre-Jiren UIO > Spirit Bomb > Post-Jiren SSBKKx20 > Post-Kefla SSG > Post-Jiren SSB > Pre-Jiren SSBKKx20 > Post-Jiren SSG > Pre-Jiren SSB > Pre-Jiren SSG
Although Post-MUI Base or SS1 Goku might be Pre-Jiren SSB Lvl now.
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Pretty sure that's an outlier for Anilaza if anything.
I've already said it's an outlier for Anilaza, but unless you're implying Anilaza is weaker than 17, him beating the other 3-As is not an outlier.
There's was really no indication of that, and Vegeta got curbstomped too in his Low 2-C form before powering up even further a la Future Trunks.
Toppo was explicitly holding back in order to avoid killing 17.
Freeza may have been messed up by Toppo, but still got to his feet and was able to fight.
Which isn't a feat.
17 at full power, while being knocked out for a while, was able to cancel Jiren's full-powered blast.
Which we've already discussed twice. We all acknowledged it was an outlier.
Goku struggled against several opponents while in SSJB/SSJG before as well. Doesn't mean Goku isn't above them, it means he wasn't using his full power,
There's no proof 17 wasn't serious against the Universe 6 fighters. The only one he explicitly countered with utter ease was Katopesla, who is a fodder.
Also, just saying I'm using fallacies doesn't prove I'm using fallacies when I'm trying to powerscale based off THE SYSTEM WE USE. You calling my arguments fallacies is fallacious in and of itself, and maybe YOU should realize what you're doing.
Chill out.
I've already proven you're using a fallacy, and linked to it. Make an effort not to, thanks.
I've already said it's an outlier for Anilaza, but unless you're implying Anilaza is weaker than 17, him beating the other 3-As is not an outlier.
There's was really no indication of that, and Vegeta got curbstomped too in his Low 2-C form before powering up even further a la Future Trunks.
Toppo was explicitly holding back in order to avoid killing 17.
Freeza may have been messed up by Toppo, but still got to his feet and was able to fight.
Which isn't a feat.
17 at full power, while being knocked out for a while, was able to cancel Jiren's full-powered blast.
Which we've already discussed twice. We all acknowledged it was an outlier.
Goku struggled against several opponents while in SSJB/SSJG before as well. Doesn't mean Goku isn't above them, it means he wasn't using his full power,
There's no proof 17 wasn't serious against the Universe 6 fighters. The only one he explicitly countered with utter ease was Katopesla, who is a fodder.
Also, just saying I'm using fallacies doesn't prove I'm using fallacies when I'm trying to powerscale based off THE SYSTEM WE USE. You calling my arguments fallacies is fallacious in and of itself, and maybe YOU should realize what you're doing.
Chill out.
I've already proven you're using a fallacy, and linked to it. Make an effort not to, thanks.
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High 3-A also applies to beings that are 4-D, but in a scale bellow Universal (For exemple, destroying a Tesseract would be a High 3-A). That said, the difference between the 4-D side of High 3-A and Low 2-C is immeasurable, so scaling High 3-A's from Low 2-C beings is still wrong.Vegan Gains said:
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17 and Freeza should NOT be Low 2-C, Jiren was not at full power.
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theres a 4-D version of High 3-A ?
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Jeez, this dimensional jargon.
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1. You're ignoring the bit about Goku, and yes I am in regard to Anilaza's feats being outliers.
2. Just because he could have destroyed Freeza with the energy doesn't mean he's holding back energy. Again, ignoring Vegeta.
3. How does that not count for durability?
4. "We all acknowledged it was an outlier"
When he was "confirmed" to have been destroyed by the blast.
5. Implying that Goku wasn't "serious" vs previous enemies as well. Serious =/= full power, and especially not limit-breaking power.
6. Stop talking down to me. I'm not some ignorant dullard who doesn't know what she's talking about, contrary to how you like to talk to me. Apparently, to you, though, scaling equals fallacies.
@Dziga
Low 2-C is literally the same thing as High 3-A but on a universal level.
2. Just because he could have destroyed Freeza with the energy doesn't mean he's holding back energy. Again, ignoring Vegeta.
3. How does that not count for durability?
4. "We all acknowledged it was an outlier"
When he was "confirmed" to have been destroyed by the blast.
5. Implying that Goku wasn't "serious" vs previous enemies as well. Serious =/= full power, and especially not limit-breaking power.
6. Stop talking down to me. I'm not some ignorant dullard who doesn't know what she's talking about, contrary to how you like to talk to me. Apparently, to you, though, scaling equals fallacies.
@Dziga
Low 2-C is literally the same thing as High 3-A but on a universal level.
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Still sticking with my agreements for the upgrades, both sides make pretty good points but Aeyu's arguments seem more convincing to me.
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I didn't talk down to you. '''Please''' stop blowing the issue out of proportion and trying to cause a shitstorm. Thanks.
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I have already said why I disagree heavily with High 3-A, Low 2-C or anything above 3-A. So I will just watch this thread and do damage control instead of indirectly feeding a shitstorm.
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@Dziga
You're missing the point of High 3-A vs Low 2-C. Such differences are very clearly explained.
@Kep
Constantly dismissing my arguments as fallacies when I'm trying to be reasonable in scaling characters and ignoring every counter-argument I've made in favor of your original point is talking down to me.
You're missing the point of High 3-A vs Low 2-C. Such differences are very clearly explained.
@Kep
Constantly dismissing my arguments as fallacies when I'm trying to be reasonable in scaling characters and ignoring every counter-argument I've made in favor of your original point is talking down to me.
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Super Shenron has no feats or statements about his own physical power outside his massive size, which at that point being so large in of itself is a major feat. Nothing suggests he would've punched a God of Destruction to death. His physical rating is perfectly fine.
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If Zarama showed up in the new series [ Akira i swear if he doesn't I'm coming for you low-key ] .... Wouldn't we place him at 2-C ?
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@Ryu
That's ignoring that literally every other dragon is limited in the scope of their hax AND power to the level associated to their master. instead of to something arbitrary such as their size. So if SS can perform 2-C hax, it's far more reasonable to assume that he's physically 2-C than the other way around.
That's ignoring that literally every other dragon is limited in the scope of their hax AND power to the level associated to their master. instead of to something arbitrary such as their size. So if SS can perform 2-C hax, it's far more reasonable to assume that he's physically 2-C than the other way around.
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