Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Ss3micah]

Also a few questions.

Sigh, fine I’ll answer this

- First of all, Goku is able to resist hakai, and the said hakai by Beerus can erase characters from Doctor Slump, and these said characters can interact with Tori-Bot himself, who's outside the Doctor Slump narrative and can interact with it. So, this gives Goku the ability to literally be resistant to narrative erasure potency, right?

Short answer: No. I won’t get too much into it but just be as brief as possible, Beerus can’t erase beings on a narrative level and/or can’t erase things to a level where they are booted from the story completely. It’s only been accepted that he can Hakai beings with narrative EE resistance but by no means does Beerus or Hakai for that matter have any Narrative applications. So Goku would not have Narrative EE resistance either.

If this is the case, wouldn't this mean Goku is resistant to hax like causality, fate, law, and far more manipulation?

No because again, it’s only accepted Beerus can Hakai beings with the resistance, not that he himself nor Hakai has narrative applications and even more so have the same attributes and applications as Dr. S Plot Manipulation

And continuing with Doctor Slump, if Beerus is stated to be unaffected by Arale and other characters, shouldn't he scale to them and be Low 1-C?

No. I won’t get into it too much but scaling Beerus and/or Hakai to Plot Hax AP has been deemed an outlier.
Plus that statement has always been treated with a half tea-spoon of salt. It’s that reason why Beerus was only given resistance to Toon Force rather than quite literally every ability under the Sun on Arale’s page.

Goku for that matter has little to no idea of what Arale can even do or what she is trying capable of. Only that she has logic breaking powers (I.E. Toon Force) but that’s it. So to say plot manipulation (a power that neither GOKU nor BEERUS for that matter are even aware of) would just straight up not work for unknown reasons is a bit of a stretch. It even becomes more so a stretch when you consider Arale wasn’t actively trying to throw hands throughout the entire ordeal

 

[Ss3micah]

yes this is wrong. just because u resist being erased out of the story, doesnt mean you can resist being erased across history. Its a relic from when Hakai was standard EE

Isn't it literally accepted within his page?

History is not Plot or Conceptual (well not normally atleast)

If this is about Goku having History EE resistance and Hakai having History EE applications.
Those are for completely unrelated reasons that are not associated to dr slump. Read the page again. Hakai has its own dragon ball established reasons for History EE

 

[Nullflowerblush]

For my next campaign, I'm going to make it to where tanking an energy attack warrants a 2x advantage.

 

[Huesito88]

For my next campaign, I'm going to make it to where tanking an energy attack warrants a 2x advantage.

Will this scale to speed?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yes.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Yes.

it seems fake to me.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Trust in the agenda.

 

[Huesito88]

Trust in the agenda.

Your agenda is the agenda?

 

[Omegabronic]

Your agenda is the agenda?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

wait why the hell was my planet vegeta calculation rejected again

 

[Nullflowerblush]

wait
i used diameter lol

 

[Fezzih_007]

wait why the hell was my planet vegeta calculation rejected again

Damn, you got bad luck If you made others calculations, just to get rejected several times.

 

[Sus]

what's the currently accepted calc for frieza?

 

[Rutæhh]

If this is about Goku having History EE resistance and Hakai having History EE applications.
Those are for completely unrelated reasons that are not associated to dr slump. Read the page again. Hakai has its own dragon ball established reasons for History EE

i don’t disagree with Historical EE for Hakai at all, I dont think I ever said this. I disagree with Hakai still having this part of its justification.

Can erase[11] beings like Dr. Mashirito, and likely even Arale Norimaki, both of whom resisted narrative existence erasure,[24][25]

this is a relic from when Hakai was just standard EE. I think its wrong and just extra fluff

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Where does the 5-A in Son Goku's Dragon Ball (Toei) profile come from? Because he is 2x stronger than his previous key?

 

[Sus]

Where does the 5-A in Son Goku's Dragon Ball (Toei) profile come from? Because he is 2x stronger than his previous key?

the toei scaling for classic dragon ball is identical for canon, aside from inflated feats that is

 

[Sus]

why are fusions considered above the max power of one fusee rather than both?
and why is vados' statement not taken into account?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I think there is proof to consider a fusion's base beyond both parts' full power.

Base Gotenks in Z was believed to beat Buu, and Goten and Trunks obviously not even in SSJ can.

Base Kefla in the Anime fought against SSG Goku and iirc forced him to become blue or blue KK, while Caulifla and Kale together couldn't match SSG Goku.

Base Gogeta evaded some of SSJ Broly attacks, and matched him in SSJ, while previously both SSGSS Goku & Vegeta couldn't.

In the manga, iirc base Vegito could hold his own against Fused Zamasu better than what SSGSS Goku & Vegeta did.

In Toei Z it is even more clear, since Base Vegito no-diffed Buu for most of the time, while at that time Goku even at ssj3 was below Ultimate Gohan.

And hell, even a failed fusion of Gotenks could crack Cell Max's weak spot

 

[DivineAura44]

Why is Goku "average" intelligence again? Would below average not be more suitable?

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Why is Goku "average" intelligence again? Would below average not be more suitable?

He got 50/100 in that one test

 

[DivineAura44]

He got 50/100 in that one test

Yeah, the test was to determine if you were a mindless beast or not. They prolly where giving questions like "What color is blue?" or "How many sides does a square have?"

 

[Sus]

I think there is proof to consider a fusion's base beyond both parts' full power.

Base Gotenks in Z was believed to beat Buu, and Goten and Trunks obviously not even in SSJ can.

Base Kefla in the Anime fought against SSG Goku and iirc forced him to become blue or blue KK, while Caulifla and Kale together couldn't match SSG Goku.

Base Gogeta evaded some of SSJ Broly attacks, and matched him in SSJ, while previously both SSGSS Goku & Vegeta couldn't.

In the manga, iirc base Vegito could hold his own against Fused Zamasu better than what SSGSS Goku & Vegeta did.

In Toei Z it is even more clear, since Base Vegito no-diffed Buu for most of the time, while at that time Goku even at ssj3 was below Ultimate Gohan.

And hell, even a failed fusion of Gotenks could crack Cell Max's weak spot

well yes i know, but focus on the italic part

one fusee rather than both?

we treat SSG as >400*400 base
it should be 800*400 because gokus and vegetas power are summed first

and why is vados' statement not taken into account?

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Goku's minor dowgrade Dragon Ball (toei)

Apparently you need to make a CRT for this, so here goes. Son Goku Dragon Ball (Toei) is being listed as Large Planet, for being 2x stronger than his previous key, but his previous key was “only” 1,393 Yottatons, being twice as powerful would make Goku 2.7 Yottattosn, far from the 3.8 of the...

vsbattles.com

 

[RedReaper616]

Yeah, the test was to determine if you were a mindless beast or not. They prolly where giving questions like "What color is blue?" or "How many sides does a square have?"

No, there were actual math equations in there too. We see on the page that Goku shows Vegeta there’s geometry to solve. Meaning he’s got (admittedly low, only 50% passing) middle school-high school education, which makes sense because Roshi taught him those things (and reading/writing) when he was 12.

 

[RedReaper616]

why are fusions considered above the max power of one fusee rather than both?
and why is vados' statement not taken into account?

They’re above the max of both. The issue solely is there’s no way to accurately quantify that, so we try to work with the absolute lowest reasonable baseline we can gather and work from there.

 

[DivineAura44]

No, there were actual math equations in there too. We see on the page that Goku shows Vegeta there’s geometry to solve. Meaning he’s got (admittedly low, only 50% passing) middle school-high school education, which makes sense because Roshi taught him those things (and reading/writing) when he was 12.

Even if true, I wouldn't consider that average.

 

[Demon_Lord18]

Yeah, the test was to determine if you were a mindless beast or not. They prolly where giving questions like "What color is blue?" or "How many sides does a square have?"

If you have a bucket of water that contains 2 liters and another that contains 5 liters, how many buckets do you have?

 

[Sus]

They’re above the max of both. The issue solely is there’s no way to accurately quantify that, so we try to work with the absolute lowest reasonable baseline we can gather and work from there.

but in both manga and anime it's stated to be above the sum not the individual max of both

 

[RedReaper616]

but in both manga and anime it's stated to be above the sum not the individual max of both

Yes. I agreed with that. It’s just a matter of how you go about trying to math that out for a scaling chain. (Especially since that easily gets into Calc-Stacking.)

 

[DivineAura44]

If you have a bucket of water that contains 2 liters and another that contains 5 liters, how many buckets do you have?

7 liters

 

[Sus]

Yes. I agreed with that. It’s just a matter of how you go about trying to math that out for a scaling chain. (Especially since that easily gets into Calc-Stacking.)

so.. for the sake of lowballing? because the statement is clear

 

[Omegabronic]

No, there were actual math equations in there too. We see on the page that Goku shows Vegeta there’s geometry to solve. Meaning he’s got (admittedly low, only 50% passing) middle school-high school education, which makes sense because Roshi taught him those things (and reading/writing) when he was 12.

that is fun and all................but GT/Toei Goku should get Bellow Average for general intelligence as he finds counting 1 to 3 difficult not even joking, go look it up, it is during the Oceanus Shenron fight iirc

 

[Huesito88]

that is fun and all................but GT/Toei Goku should get Bellow Average for general intelligence as he finds counting 1 to 3 difficult not even joking, go look it up, it is during the Oceanus Shenron fight iirc

What? Clearly Goku is talking about the infinites between 1, 2, and 3 =P OVO

 

[Demon_Lord18]

that is fun and all................but GT/Toei Goku should get Bellow Average for general intelligence as he finds counting 1 to 3 difficult not even joking, go look it up, it is during the Oceanus Shenron fight iirc

 

[KingTempest]

that is fun and all................but GT/Toei Goku should get Bellow Average for general intelligence as he finds counting 1 to 3 difficult not even joking, go look it up, it is during the Oceanus Shenron fight iirc

I thought he was just vaguely oblivious I didn't know he was an idiot who finds it easier to name his super saiyan forms from 1-3 than counting his ******* fingers

 

[DivineAura44]

But then people will try to convince you that Super is worse than GT due to Goku's regression in intelligence smh

 

[Sus]

honestly neither sequels gave the manga justice imo, i emjoyed super, dont get me wrong, but to me DB peaked at the cell saga

 

[AyeZ2]

honestly neither sequels gave the manga justice imo, i emjoyed super, dont get me wrong, but to me DB peaked at the cell saga

I would say DB peaked at the black arc but I can’t confidently say that with how it ended.

My real choice would be the cell saga too aswell

 

[TiltedFN]

honestly neither sequels gave the manga justice imo, i emjoyed super, dont get me wrong, but to me DB peaked at the cell saga

Namek/Saiyan/Buu betta

 

[Sus]

Namek/Saiyan/Buu betta

i didn't say it's the best saga, rather, after that it was never the same

i do love buu saga i just think it's the least good of the 4 Z sagas