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Wait tell they hear goku only lives to 100
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Dragon Ball Daima Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ednaxel2
- Start date
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Four days eh
Do we have any idea how big the Demon world is for far?
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There could be a quote saying it is infinite, but it only says it is big.
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The most significant thing to me here is that in this episode Super Saiyan Power makes a reappearance. It briefly seemed to appear in DBS: Broly when Vegeta was first transforming, but that could be argued to simply be Vegeta drawing out how long it takes to power up as the energy rises in his body. This is pretty inarguable, though. Goku turns SSJ, goes back down, and maintains his SSJ Aura in Base to strengthen himself and defeat fodder. Now, what does Super Saiyan Power add to Powerscaling? Absolutely nothing. I just think it's amazing how a concept made up by the old Z Anime to write off a last second change and effectively a "correct animation error" (as strange as that sounds) has become a completely and totally accepted part of Dragon Ball. It's great and I love it.
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I was about to mention that too. Super Saiyan Power might have just been made canon.
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Map of cosmology, i see infinite points.
muh cosmology
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So just a general question, but how strong do you think the Tamagami warriors will be? If I had to take a guess, they are probably around the SSJ2 Gohan, Vegeta and Goku level given that no one's ever beaten them, which presumably includes Dabura. I think it's a stretch to assume they're at the SSJ3 level, but then again, we still have no idea how the story's gonna go. What do you guys think?
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This is a good guess that I think has value in it. My only detractor is we don’t know how much the Wish nerfed Goku yet, exactly, so for all intents and purposes it’ll probably only be nebulously stronger than Dabura. Especially because—You have to remember—So far the final boss (outside of any leak info) is gearing up to be Gomah with the 3rd Eye, which he was confident would make him unbeatable to everyone, including SSJ3 Goku and Buu. So unless the Tamagamis end up superior to 3rd Eye Gomah, they have to sit between “Above Dabura” and “Beneath SSJ3/3rd Eye Gomah.”
They could play around it by having Dabura simply have never tried, though.
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Yeah, it's a slippery slope to make these guesses since we don't have enough info like you said. Thinking it over, it's possible that the Tamagami could rival Buu. Glorio was confident that Goku could defeat Gomah since he'd already defeated Buu, but when Goku expressed the desire to fight the Tamagami, Glorio believed it wouldn't be possible at first. This is another large stretch, but I just wanna mull over everything we know so far. I'm sure that 3rd Eye Gomah is going to end up being the strongest in this arc since there's already been a set-up, and I imagine he's going to rival or potentially surpass Buu when he gets that power. But overall, I think the SSJ2 level would still be the safe bet for the Tamagami's level.
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Okay, I find this bit interesting but I am kind of lost. What do you mean with Super Saiyan Power and "animation error"?
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Depends on how you interpret the statements. At the very least it can be assumed they are superior to Dabura, so top-tier Cell Saga level at the bare minimum, but I think this is lowballing.
Gomah states that the 3rd Eye would grant the user unbelievable/absolute power, and even says that the 3rd Eye would be more useful than turning the Z Fighters into children. This suggests that Gomah believes the 3rd Eye would make him stronger than SSJ3 Goku. If you wanted to wank him a bit you could even try to make the argument that it means he believes he's stronger than Vegito, but that's definitely not the case imo.
From there, you just take the statements from both Gomah and Kadan, paired with the fact that people have presumably used the Evil 3rd Eye yet never beat the Tamagami's, and you could extrapolate that the Tamagami's are possibly stronger than SSJ3 Goku and etc.. This can be supported by the fact that they are the big threats ATM after the Buu Saga.
But this is a lot of guessing and extrapolation. Realistically we're probably giving them too much credit as Mini Goku will likely be able to fight them and potentially beat them. I'm more interested in the diff he'll have and if we can get a more hard-coded statement about their strength compared to characters like Dabura. If they really are stronger and Mini Goku mid-diffs them or so, it gives more context to scaling for both Daima AND the Buu Saga.
But I digress. Obviously we don't know and have to wait and see.
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Super Saiyan Power is the nickname for the anime filler scene in the Otherworld Tournament arc where Pikkon and Goku leave from the Grand Kai's planet to deal with some old villains in Hell (the infamous anime speed feat calced to quadrillions of times FTL that base Goku casually performed, fyi).
There, Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan to beat up the Ginyu Force for some reason. But the studio looked back on this and decided they didn't like it, not because of the weird thing of Goku using SSJ to beat fodder but because they wanted him to "save" it so it would be more eventful when he used it in the tournament portion of the filler arc. But instead of redoing the whole sequence, they kinda lazily just turned his hair black but left it spiky with the golden aura. And thus, Super Saiyan "Power" was born. Since then there's been subtle occurrences where base Saiyan's have a SSJ aura, and people think this is a reference.
Super Saiyan/partial manifestation
It is possible for a Saiyan to partially manifest Super Saiyan power in their base form without actually turning into a Super Saiyan. Originally, in "Warriors of the Dead", Goku turned into a Super Saiyan when fighting the Ginyu Force, as indicated by the trailer for the episode. However, this...
dragonball.fandom.com
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Ah, yeah, I remember that. It drew my attention as well when I first saw it. I can see the Studio's reasoning, IIRC when Goku goes SSJ against Paikuhan during their fight it's treated as an important moment. But yeah, kinda neat they built a bit of lore from what was essentially an animation patch.Super Saiyan Power is the nickname for the anime filler scene in the Otherworld Tournament arc where Pikkon and Goku leave from the Grand Kai's planet to deal with some old villains in Hell (the infamous anime speed feat calced to quadrillions of times FTL that base Goku casually performed, fyi).
There, Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan to beat up the Ginyu Force for some reason. But the studio looked back on this and decided they didn't like it, not because of the weird thing of Goku using SSJ to beat fodder but because they wanted him to "save" it so it would be more eventful when he used it in the tournament portion of the filler arc. But instead of redoing the whole sequence, they kinda lazily just turned his hair black but left it spiky with the golden aura. And thus, Super Saiyan "Power" was born. Since then there's been subtle occurrences where base Saiyan's have a SSJ aura, and people think this is a reference.
Super Saiyan/partial manifestation
It is possible for a Saiyan to partially manifest Super Saiyan power in their base form without actually turning into a Super Saiyan. Originally, in "Warriors of the Dead", Goku turned into a Super Saiyan when fighting the Ginyu Force, as indicated by the trailer for the episode. However, this...
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Does Ssj1 Daima have the same power as adult Ssj1 level?
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Goku's base is weakened so his SSJ should be in the same boat
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Now Goku has been dowgrade to the mainland version
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Maybe we can get some interesting hax from Daima. Aside magic being actively brought up opposed to a minor power of specific characters, Glorio has explained on a few ocassions the many hazardous conditions of the Demon Realm.
I mean, I doubt Goku and Vegeta will end up using magic, but Piccolo maybe? And I can see the guys powering through magic using demons and other Demon Realm related conditions.
I mean, I doubt Goku and Vegeta will end up using magic, but Piccolo maybe? And I can see the guys powering through magic using demons and other Demon Realm related conditions.
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We have no idea how strong Mini Goku is lol.
SSJ is a fixed multiplier so if his base is 10x weaker then his SSJ form is also 10x weaker. But realistically it seems like he's not even comparable to his adult self, based on what's been happening in the show. On the other hand him, Supreme Kai, Glorio, and others after seeing his strength think he can match potentially high-tier Buu Saga characters anyways so that could be wrong. If so his Ki isn't really different, just his physical form, which has so far only impacted his balance and melee range. This could definitely be the case but it remains to be seen. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would want Goku to immediately go fight the Tamagami's and then beat up Gomah and Degesu if he's not still very powerful. Unless they're just overhyped fodder. But I mean Goku needed to go Super Saiyan for actual nameless fodder last episode so eh.
Just doesn't seem consistent right now.
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To be fair, in-universe the reason why Goku WANTS to go is because he was told they were strong. He just ended up also simultaneously pointing out a good reason why they should fight them. But also, Goku has no actual reference to their strength outside of "Stronger than Glorio, who is stronger than a Nerfed Shin." At best he could think "Stronger than Dabura" since he knows he's the King and never got a wish either. So it's totally possible for the Tamagamis to under or over perform in general because our reference point for them (and Goku's reference point) is very nebulous and vague. It's also possible, given how JRPG this has been, they're gonna do some level grinding. Goku goes, gets his ass kicked, leaves, and then returns after some leveling up to fight the Tamagamis. Seems very Dragon Quest, which is clearly what Toriyama took inspiration from.
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I would say my first impression is that the Tamagamis must be stronger than Cell at least. I have a hard time believing Babidi wouldn't have been interested in using Dabura to use the Dragon Balls if Dabura were strong enough to win. And we know from the trailer that Goku will use Super Saiyan 2 so we can say that Daima Goku is probably stronger than Teen Gohan.
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Or that Dabura himself wouldn't have done it. The Tamagami's are described as being ridiculously strong for the Demon Realm and going completely uncontested, so I think it's fair to say they surpass Dabura.
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I'm guessing that magic also isn't effective against them. As Panzy mentioned, all inhabitants of the Demon Realm can use it, so it would be strange if nobody had thought of getting rid of them with spells or tricks given it was known they were unbeatable in combat, only to find out it didn't work either.
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It's so cool to show that the guides are right about the Kaioshins being born from a tree
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I mean that information was given by Toriyama himself in interview and given further depth (by him presumably) in the updated Daizenshuu (Chouzenshuu) which is validated by him as an accurate and reliable guide. So it stood to reason it was accurate. Though, if I recall correctly the World Core Tree is supposed to be in Otherworld/The Afterlife, not the Demon Realm. So it is changed a bit. Unless that’s a flashback…?
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I don't remember much because I haven't read the DB guides for a long time, but all I know is that it was a tree that gave life to the Kaioshins and I don't know if it specified where it was, so maybe it's a flashback.
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-Supreme Kai remarks that as far as he knows, Goku is the strongest in the universe. Ultimate Gohan fans in shambles.
-Glinds (Supreme Kai's race) are born once every few centuries from the Glind Tree.
-Goku remarks thats why Supreme Kai doesn't eat and only drinks liquids.
-Degesu was born from the same Glind Tree when Supreme Kai was 216. Five Glind Trees.
-According to the Supreme Kai Glinds don't have genders, so they aren't exactly men or women. Goku remarks they're like plants.
-Third Demon World has two suns.
-Glorio is working for Arinsu, Supreme Kai knows something is up.
-Glorio vs Goku was actually good. Glorio uses magic. Makes lightning and can make a lightning whip.
Also Goku was hurt by toilet paper. RIP powerscaling.
-Glinds (Supreme Kai's race) are born once every few centuries from the Glind Tree.
-Goku remarks thats why Supreme Kai doesn't eat and only drinks liquids.
-Degesu was born from the same Glind Tree when Supreme Kai was 216. Five Glind Trees.
-According to the Supreme Kai Glinds don't have genders, so they aren't exactly men or women. Goku remarks they're like plants.
-Third Demon World has two suns.
-Glorio is working for Arinsu, Supreme Kai knows something is up.
-Glorio vs Goku was actually good. Glorio uses magic. Makes lightning and can make a lightning whip.
Also Goku was hurt by toilet paper. RIP powerscaling.
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Toriyama when he needs to make a race that has different needs than humans:
"Time for the Good Ol' Reliable. Water!"
The joke is pretty simple. This has been the third time now where Toriyama introduces that a race can live longer than humans, are "born" stronger, etc. and they don't have food needs, only water. Namekians, Androids, and Glinds.
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If there are two suns so the size of the third demonic realm would be planetary or star-shaped to fit two suns?
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Glad a main character is actively a magic user. Always thought that it was a pretty unexplored power in the original series.
Honestly, I'm really liking how Daima is building its story on bits of lore the original Z dropped here and there but never really used.
SirAlex09
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Z goku hurt by a rock
GT Goku hurt by Glas
DBS Goku hurt by a bullet and laser
Daima Goku hurt by toilet paper
OG DB Goku solos all 4 of them
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Interesting note:
After Goku and Glorio's fight, Panzy asks Goku about his abilities, etc. She asked him of he used Magic, Shin comes and says that no, Goku didn't. So this should shut down those people who argued Magic in DB was ki based.
Second, Goku berore turning into SSJ focused ki in right hand, the same hand he uses to stop Glorio's lightning Magic.
So Goku should gain resistance to lighting manipulation and Magic.
Finally, never thought I would see the day where Goku would be able to no-sell magical attacks with ki.
After Goku and Glorio's fight, Panzy asks Goku about his abilities, etc. She asked him of he used Magic, Shin comes and says that no, Goku didn't. So this should shut down those people who argued Magic in DB was ki based.
Second, Goku berore turning into SSJ focused ki in right hand, the same hand he uses to stop Glorio's lightning Magic.
So Goku should gain resistance to lighting manipulation and Magic.
Finally, never thought I would see the day where Goku would be able to no-sell magical attacks with ki.
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You understood wrong. They meant that the Earth dragon Balls can use "White Magic", nor that goku and co posses some type of "White Magic", this and that Shenlong can't grant evil wishes such as killing someone. Basically this type is linked by laws of "good" and "bad". So they have limitations. However, the DBs that Tamagamis are protecting apparently do not have this handicap.
We have absolutely no evidence they were refering to ki there.
What you saw was a minstranslation, what Degesu said was something like:
"I'm sure their power is based in White Magic, so I doubt a black wish like eliminating them will be accepted"
Degesu was refering to the power of the Dragon Balls, not the Z warriors lol
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Didn't earlier episodes already suggest at this?
But yeah, it should. Nice confirmation for BoG Goku before the ritual.
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Might also tie to Manga DBS Goku thinking he can beat Kid Buu with just SS1
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another thing to note is Goku was handling Glorio(someone stated to be stronger than Supreme kai) in his base for some time and really only turned SSJ for fun since Goku was just taking him with only 1 arm at one point
So i guess this finally puts to rest if base Goku was stronger than Freeza
So i guess this finally puts to rest if base Goku was stronger than Freeza
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- Thread starter
- #519
This also means Golrio could one-shot Piccolo lol
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Hehehe, the scenes from Dragon Ball Z were used for Dragon Ball Daima according to the translation, the link is below
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