Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[omegabronic]

Evidently, if the Super manga is taken into consideration, the model of the universe associated with the original TV Anime and the guidebooks represents the literal, physical construct of the universe, whereas the glass-like globes in which they are depicted in neutral space represents their dimensional boundaries.

Curiously, said glass-like globes are suspended atop Zen-Oh's Palace, which, itself, exists within a vast, starry cosmos of its own.

i am not negating that the DBS manga used it......it is just that it doesn't solve the problems with it at all imo

 

[omegabronic]

Uh huh. No contradictions here, guys.

i don't insist on using it no........where you got that from?

 

[Maskofthedragon]

Yo why did I see the word “outlier” in that thread? Doesn’t VBW give out free infinite, immeasurable, etc ratings to folks who are portrayed as immensely slower?

Outliers are allowed only on Dragon Ball threads nowadays
Otherwise 99% of infinite/immeasurable SNEED characters would lose it

 

[Nierre]

man good luck to yall db supporters. don't know how u guys can deal with going over the same topics over and over and over again.
whether or not I agree with yall or not I can understand how frustrating it is so all I can say is goodluck and godspeed.

 

[Quantu]

man good luck to yall db supporters. don't know how u guys can deal with going over the same topics over and over and over again.
whether or not I agree with yall or not I can understand how frustrating it is so all I can say is goodluck and godspeed.

August Heart mentioned???

 

[RanHover60]

One must imagine a Dragon Ball fan happy

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Evidently, if the Super manga is taken into consideration, the model of the universe associated with the original TV Anime and the guidebooks represents the literal, physical construct of the universe, whereas the glass-like globes in which they are depicted in neutral space represents their dimensional boundaries.

Curiously, said glass-like globes are suspended atop Zen-Oh's Palace, which, itself, exists within a vast, starry cosmos of its own.

So we put 50x on perfect cell?

 

[Chariot190]

Outliers are allowed only on Dragon Ball threads nowadays
Otherwise 99% of infinite/immeasurable SNEED characters would lose it

they should tbh, I can think of a handful right now that sus af

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

One must imagine a Dragon Ball fan happy

VEGIROCK

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Outliers are allowed only on Dragon Ball threads nowadays
Otherwise 99% of infinite/immeasurable SNEED characters would lose it

The fear is so much that we achieve infinite and immeasurable speed and begin to beat several favorite verses (i would even be afraid of DB, where the characters don't need complex hax to beat someone, if you have a punch and greater ki you can solo until fiction)

Honestly, before, when i read comics, i thought that all of Superman's punches had a really powerful force capable of defeating any hax, since a hax can't dodge a multiversal punch in my head.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

So we put 50x on perfect cell?

Genuinely,




Throughout the Full Color re-releases, the Super Saiyan forms are characterized by unique auras, distinguishing their Ki from the Ki of the user's normal forms; Grades 1, 3, and 4 are depicted with empty, shapeless, flame-like auras, whereas Grade 2, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3 are depicted with rough, jagged, golden auras.

Not only is Cell explicitly confirmed by an anime-related guide to possess Third Grade Super Saiyan, but its visual depiction in the Full Color is consistent with said form. Going even further beyond that, Semi-Perfect Cell undergoes a power-up illustrated nearly identically to Vegeta's transformation into Super Vegeta, and obtains the empty, shapeless, flame-like aura associated with the normal Super Saiyan form.



Additionally, Perfect Cell develops a Super Saiyan's aura against Goku.

 

[Maskofthedragon]

they should tbh, I can think of a handful right now that sus af

The abstract speeds do need much tighter standards
Since every single frame of a character not preforming immeasurable feats, is a massive counterpoint to that rating

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The fear is so much that we achieve infinite and immeasurable speed and begin to beat several favorite verses

Nobody's scared of Dragon Ball. This is just whining.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

they should tbh, I can think of a handful right now that sus af

cof cof games verses coff coff

Genuinely,




Throughout the Full Color re-releases, the Super Saiyan forms are characterized by unique auras, distinguishing their Ki from the Ki of the user's normal forms; Grades 1, 3, and 4 are depicted with empty, shapeless, flame-like auras, whereas Grade 2, Super Saiyan 2, and Super Saiyan 3 are depicted with rough, jagged, golden auras.

Not only is Cell explicitly confirmed by an anime-related guide to possess Third Grade Super Saiyan, but its visual depiction in the Full Color is consistent with said form. Going even further beyond that, Semi-Perfect Cell undergoes a power-up illustrated nearly identically to Vegeta's transformation into Super Vegeta, and obtains the empty, shapeless, flame-like aura associated with the normal Super Saiyan form.



Additionally, Perfect Cell develops a Super Saiyan's aura against Goku.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The notion probably wouldn't fly by in a CRT, given the bulk of the argument is extrapolation of visual details, but I'd be all for Perfect Cell being 50x Semi-Perfect Cell (>12.4054319 Foe) and then unleashing yet another 50x (>620.271595 Foe) for Goku to scale to.

Would bring them even closer to that Solar Kamehameha calculation all you guys keep wanting them to scale to.

 

[Chariot190]

cof cof games verses coff coff

5 of the 5 i could think of are that yeah

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Nobody's scared of Dragon Ball. This is just whining.

Doubt?

 

[Chariot190]

Doubt?

Bro nobody "fears" any verse, it's just a hobby, shit ain't serious

 

[Nullflowerblush]

How many Dragon Ball CRTs are open right now?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The notion probably wouldn't fly by in a CRT, given the bulk of the argument is extrapolation of visual details, but I'd be all for Perfect Cell being 50x Semi-Perfect Cell (>12.4054319 Foe) and then unleashing yet another 50x (>620.271595 Foe) for Goku to scale to.

Would bring them even closer to that Solar Kamehameha calculation all you guys keep wanting them to scale to.

Another 50x? Why?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Additionally, Perfect Cell develops a Super Saiyan's aura against Goku.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Bro nobody "fears" any verse, it's just a hobby, shit ain't serious

If people take E dating seriously it's definitely possible for people to take powerscaling seriously especially if a specific verse they dislike receives a massive upgrade. It's unlikely but can still happen. Being chronically online like that is concerning though.

 

[Chariot190]

If people take E dating seriously it's definitely possible for people to take powerscaling seriously especially if a specific verse they dislike receives a massive upgrade. It's unlikely but can still happen. Being chronically online like that is concerning though.

that's being petty, not being afraid

 

[TiltedFN]

wait so what exactly were the disagreements about?

uhh visuals, yada yada yada, big glass dome universe blah blah blah, yknow

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

that's being petty, not being afraid

I can't really perceive into the mind of someone chronically online or talk from experience since I'm not chronically online but fear can definitely be part of this conversation IMO. But yeah one interpretation could be being petty as you stated

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

uhh visuals, yada yada yada, big glass dome universe blah blah blah, yknow

Hehehe, if Daima presents Infinite Universe again they will have to accept it, i just hope that this time it doesn't come with the excuse of translation error or hypebole.

 

[RedReaper616]

the positioning you can't since the distance between them would be wrong no matter what, you can't see the number of asteroids, the dwarf planets, etc, even the color most of the time isn't 100% accurate, so again, this example doesn't work

1) Distance is apart of the scale of size. Making it irrelevant. 2) Again, it is about the model of the planets, depicted, so things outside of that aren’t to be discussed. 3) The color is typically correct as far as being able to be visualized through colors we have available. The sun being yellow-orange, the Earth being blue and green, etc. If you mean hyper specific shades like the difference between “Hex: #42f572 green,” and “Hex: #42f573 green,” the amount of nitpicking you’re doing is so unreasonable that you may have re-evaluate what you’re saying.

as well

Ditto again.

composited cosmology remember? if it is for one, it is for the other

You’re totally right, actually, forgot about this.

and yet the Anime has that zoom out scene...........a guide is secondary to the source

The same applies to all the examples I listed, then? Grand Kai’s model, DBK’s direct visual, DBS: Manga, etc. Your scene is the outlier, not the other way around.

is Kai even cannon for us to use here? we consider the og Toei anime as a cannon alternate universe.......pretty sure we don't consider Kai, also which episode from Kai does the scene come from? do we even know if it is from Kai? also you didn't showed a scene from Toei

1) Good question, actually. 2) We’ll have to check. 3) Multiple episodes. It serves as apart of the Episode Title. For example, “A Time of Trials! Lay Hold of Legendary Powers!” Or “Find The Nuisances Babidi's Retaliation Begins!” 4) I did, though instead of it being the Universe head on it was Grand Kai holding a model of the Universe.

that you assuming i agree with the latter depiction any more than the Map.......which i don't

Then why are you claiming DBS’ zoom out is a valid use to ignore the explicitly penned model?

excluding the points that go against an idea just because i believe in said idea is not accurate to me

Likewise, you shouldn’t ignore the other points that directly contradict your own.

this phrase, as i said, is self contradicting itself, size is integral part of a visual no matter how you try to deny it as such

No. If I have a flag with every color but blue, and I comment “this flag has literally every color but blue!” It’s not self contradictory. It’s being affected by modifiers.

likewise you ignoring that size is intrinsically part of a visual

But it’s not the ONLY visual cue. There’s still positioning of the Kaio planets, the revolution of the Kai Realm, where Heaven is, etc. You’re trying to ignore everything else it has just due to size.

the distances between the dimensions, which are space times, thus wouldn't be physically "away" or "close" to one another

So…size. Yippee.

you trying to disqualify it as irrelevant to not deal with it doesn't make it true

But it is irrelevant. Your whole point is about how the universes look in the Anime, ignoring how it doesn’t model the Macrocosm correctly.

you not supporting infinite universe has nothing to do with anything, infinite universe itself has nothing to do with it, i have no idea why you bring calculation into this when i didn't cited it anywhere in the part you are answering

Then it makes your position on size even more worthless. Nothing about size matters if we’re focusing solely on the visuals such as the realms, the the position of planets, etc. Because, again, your whole point relies on a visual that you agree doesn’t hold up at all to the actual depth of the Macrocosm try and hold above a visual that only is flawed in sense of scale.

don't see why since it doesn't answer the point made

Then re-read it

.........the universe is so big compared to mere galaxies that not seeing them is quite irrelevant, also for the dimensions not showing? yeah, this is why it isn't also any accurate

Then why and how would it at all be relevant to use as the “unabstracted” version of the universe?

which as i said, it is cherry picking, you can't be literal while ignoring aspects of it, that isn't how "literal" works

Read flag point again.

 

[omegabronic]

1) Distance is apart of the scale of size. Making it irrelevant.

nope, as i said, it is part of why it is RELEVANT, one of your examples is a zoom out shot of the universe in the DBS manga, which would make the size inconsistencies just how it looks......which again, has several problems, i don't like to repeat myself, no matter how much you try to spin around it, size is part integral to appearance, if you won't address any further than "it isn't relevant because i said so" then i suggest you and stop wasting each other's time

2) Again, it is about the model of the planets, depicted

no, this is about if it is an accurate model of the solar system......which as i said, it isn't

, so things outside of that aren’t to be discussed.

which is why size is being discussed as it is intrinsically inside of "that"

3) The color is typically correct as far as being able to be visualized through colors we have available. The sun being yellow-orange, the Earth being blue and green, etc. If you mean hyper specific shades like the difference between “Hex: #42f572 green,” and “Hex: #42f573 green,” the amount of nitpicking you’re doing is so unreasonable that you may have re-evaluate what you’re saying.

mars is depicted as vibrant red when it is in reality nearly brown for example

Ditto again.

not my favorite ben 10 alien, but ditto

The same applies to all the examples I listed, then?

Grand Kai’s model

not a zoom out

DBK’s direct visual

need source to check

DBS: Manga

only checkable zoom out in your examples

etc. Your scene is the outlier, not the other way around.

oh so there is others than the examples you said? what does the "etc" means here?

1) Good question, actually. 2) We’ll have to check.

so let's not consider it since we don't consider it cannon like the og toei anime and we don't even know if the image you showed is from kai

3) Multiple episodes. It serves as apart of the Episode Title. For example, “A Time of Trials! Lay Hold of Legendary Powers!” Or “Find The Nuisances Babidi's Retaliation Begins!”

those are only in the english release, the japanese og only shows the lookout

Then why are you claiming DBS’ zoom out is a valid use to ignore the explicitly penned model?

have you read what you are answering? i am not

Likewise, you shouldn’t ignore the other points that directly contradict your own.

so you admit you were ignoring and cherry picking as i said you were? nice

also since you think my point is using another model i also do not agree with........way to dig your own grave my dude

No. If I have a flag with every color but blue, and I comment “this flag has literally every color but blue!” It’s not self contradictory. It’s being affected by modifiers.

......this doesn't answer the point at all

But it’s not the ONLY visual cue.

never said, nor implied, as much

There’s still positioning of the Kaio planets

didn't you said that this was also "size" thus "irrelevant"? convenient that you are using it now

the revolution of the Kai Realm, where Heaven is, etc.

revolution? what????

You’re trying to ignore everything else it has just due to size.

not really? i am not ignoring it, just that the multiple position and size contradictions overcompensate any accuracy it could have had............you are even talking about position/size in the examples you gave even.......so you kind of agreed with me

So…size. Yippee.

not size when it is the very logic of how space times function.....you really can't ignore this point

But it is irrelevant. Your whole point is about how the universes look in the Anime, ignoring how it doesn’t model the Macrocosm correctly.

no, my entire point is that the map is wrong, i couldn't care less about the DBS Anime visuals of it

Then it makes your position on size even more worthless. Nothing about size matters if we’re focusing solely on the visuals such as the realms, the the position of planets, etc. Because, again, your whole point relies on a visual that you agree doesn’t hold up at all to the actual depth of the Macrocosm try and hold above a visual that only is flawed in sense of scale.

as i said, my point isn't trying to make any model in specific the real one, so again, your arguing against nothing right now, against a point i never made

Then re-read it

i did.............didn't changed what i thought when i wrote that..............now what?

Then why and how would it at all be relevant to use as the “unabstracted” version of the universe?

simple: IT WOULDN'T

Read flag point again.

nothing changes at all from me reading that again, didn't made sense for the first time, didn't made now in the second time

 

[Damage3245]

I can't wait till either the manga returns or Dragon Ball Daima is released so we have brand new things to talk about.

 

[RenderGK]

The most consistent model of the literal shape of the universe in this is the map of the macrocosm.

We have more tests of kai, manga, anime guide of super.

and on the contrary just a scene from a universe of a galaxy.

That cannot be so literal since Jaco states the universe has innumerable galaxies.

Here you are simply subjectively choosing what suits you best.

practically a double standard.

and, this is laughable

 

[Chariot190]

I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The most consistent model of the literal shape of the universe in this is the map of the macrocosm.

We have more tests of kai, manga, anime guide of super.

and on the contrary just a scene from a universe of a galaxy.

That cannot be so literal since Jaco states the universe has innumerable galaxies.

Here you are simply subjectively choosing what suits you best.

practically a double standard.

and, this is laughable

You bet you thought not to make hell universal in size, since hell is the size of the Universe shown on the map, lol

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

"Appeal to authority" is not a fallacy that works here.

This is a myth that needs to go.

Appeal to authority works everywhere. Staff may state one thing, that doesn't mean it's the ultimate truth.

If an apple is red, it's gonna be red even if any of the staff members or any of the wiki pages say it's blue.

Objectiveness > Subjectiveness.

 

[RenderGK]

I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too

It is simply a galaxy like that 3c.

It is the visual and nothing else matters.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

If DBZ is so fast, why is it called supersonic warriors 2 and not MFTL+ warriors 2?
Hmmmmm, makes ya think don't it?

It's like the title "Diamond is Unbreakable" but yet we see Star Platinum breaking diamond like teeth

 

[RenderGK]

In addition to galaxies, it is contradicted why you only see a Galaxy once.

If then the universe is 3C and megalxies do not exist.

ha

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It is simply a galaxy like that 3c.

It is the visual and nothing else matters.

That's not even the worst of the arguments, look on the bright side, at least they don't say that DB has only 4 galaxies or that all 12 Universes have the same space-time

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Some people be like

They say they'll the universe to 3-A

They don't realize it'd still be Low 2-C at worst, and tier 2 would persist

Lol.

 

[Chariot190]

In addition to galaxies, it is contradicted why you only see a Galaxy once.

If then the universe is 3C and megalxies do not exist.

ha

Literally what are you talking about
"I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too "


Surely you don't think the elliptical lights and shining small discs are mere stars do you? Going by visuals only, it isn't "one galaxy", let alone the context.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

that all 12 Universes have the same space-time

Oh, right. I forgot we invented a hypertimeline to explain how time travelling affects the entire Multiverse.