1-A meta for Dragon Ball

[Aaaaa11112222]

Like somebody else said, the evidence you have is immensely misinterpreting the semantics. Jigen by itself is merely "root" or "origin," it only becomes "dimension," if you combine the two letters together. Cho, on the other hand, simply, as said, means "beyond." So, if we take this into account, this doesn't mean "beyond the order of dimensionality," it simply means "beyond dimensions." And that brings me to my next point, jigen doesn't mean "dimensionality," nor was it ever shown to mean dimensionality as a whole, it simply translates to "dimensions."

And the cherry on top to all of this is that this doesn't even equate to higher-dimensionality without further context. "Dimensions" here have to be proven to be actual spatial dimensions, and "transcend" has to refer to actual qualitive superiority and not just something that could define position. So, without any further context, all this could be is a different dimension, which is actually a conclusion that is congenial to make since the writers themself took this into account.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Like somebody else said, the evidence you have is immensely misinterpreting the semantics. Jigen by itself is merely "root" or "origin," it only becomes "dimension," if you combine the two letters together. Cho, on the other hand, simply, as said, means "beyond." So, if we take this into account, this doesn't mean "beyond the order of dimensionality," it simply means "beyond dimensions." And that brings me to my next point, jigen doesn't mean "dimensionality," nor was it ever shown to mean dimensionality as a whole, it simply translates to "dimensions."

Jigen IS dimension btw. It's just the "scan" he sent is trying to say that specific letter by itself is jigen or dimension when it only makes jigen if you combine the two.

 

[Aaaaa11112222b]

Jigen IS dimension btw. It's just the "scan" he sent is trying to say that specific letter by itself is jigen or dimension when it only makes jigen if you combine the two.

Ik, that's why it didn't use Jigen by itself as enough evidence it was combining jigen with tsugi with cho to form the conclusion that it means beyond the order of dimensionality. But anyway, the point is, even if we go by your logic, my proof shows that cho jigen is above ko jigen, which IS higher dimensions.

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

Ik, that's why it didn't use Jigen by itself as enough evidence it was combining jigen with tsugi with cho to form the conclusion that it means beyond the order of dimensionality. But anyway, the point is, even if we go by your logic, my proof shows that cho jigen is above ko jigen, which IS higher dimensions.

That's quite literally a completely a baseless assumption with no evidence to back it up.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

It'd be better if you made a crt about it to be honest this is interesting!

 

[Aaaaa11112222b]

Like somebody else said, the evidence you have is immensely misinterpreting the semantics. Jigen by itself is merely "root" or "origin," it only becomes "dimension," if you combine the two letters together. Cho, on the other hand, simply, as said, means "beyond." So, if we take this into account, this doesn't mean "beyond the order of dimensionality," it simply means "beyond dimensions." And that brings me to my next point, jigen doesn't mean "dimensionality," nor was it ever shown to mean dimensionality as a whole, it simply translates to "dimensions."

And the cherry on top to all of this is that this doesn't even equate to higher-dimensionality without further context. "Dimensions" here have to be proven to be actual spatial dimensions, and "transcend" has to refer to actual qualitive superiority and not just something that could define position. So, without any further context, all this could be is a different dimension, which is actually a conclusion that is congenial to make since the writers themself took this into account.

Well if you acknowledge this then there is no "beyond the order of dimensionality" in this. It's just a generic term that literally means "beyond dimensions". The typical usage of it (superdimensional/hyperdimensional) is again as a sci fi term to mean more than 3 dimensions

If you plug in "cho-jigen" it doesn't say "beyond dimensions," it says "ultra-dimensionality" so if "cho" means beyond, this means beyond dimensionality as a whole either way.

 

[Rayfire]

Bro

Being “Super-Dimensional” Isn’t automatic 1-A tier. We don’t even know what it means. It could just mean they are 4th dimensional, 5th dimensional, etc, which there isn’t really any solid proof of to my knowledge, since “Super-Dimensional” can be a pretty subjective term, and oftentimes writers just use it to make something sound cool, so trying to say that this equals 1-A is some of the most illogical reasoning I’ve ever seen

“Realms beyond our understanding” is also ignoring the fact that we can’t exactly comprehend the 4th dimension either. We can barely get an idea on what a shape there MIGHT look like, let alone understand it completely, so even if this was valid, at best this would be somewhere in tier 2, since the wiki tends to use the bare minimum value for these things just to be safe.

And, come on, do you really expect people to trust translations from some random ahh imgur image?

That's quite literally a completely a baseless assumption with no evidence to back it up.

As Iaakk has said. ^ You also seem to be purposefully switching around the actual translations of those Japanese words. Even if we assume you aren’t, The term “dimensions” can mean a wide variety of different things. That’s why the vs wiki requires more context than just a statement. Which is the only real evidence you’ve provided by the way, lol

However, in the context of dragon ball, it’s likely just another “dimension” as in universe, (Cause, y’know, 12 universes) which the writer himself has said I believe. Jigen even as a whole also literally means “dimension” ONLY as a combined term, not dimensionS, which is more of an extra universe in this context rather than something that’s definitively transcending the plane of reality, So what was that about “NOOOO!!!!! VsBAttLes stAFf igNoRe blaTaNtLY ObViOUs TRansLAtIOns aND stUFF!!!!!”?

Like everyone else here, I disagree.

 

[Kroneii1]

 

[Aaaaa11112222b]

Being “Super-Dimensional” Isn’t automatic 1-A tier. We don’t even know what it means. It could just mean they are 4th dimensional, 5th dimensional, etc, which there isn’t really any solid proof of to my knowledge, since “Super-Dimensional” can be a pretty subjective term, and oftentimes writers just use it to make something sound cool, so trying to say that this equals 1-A is some of the most illogical reasoning I’ve ever seen

Yet it's shown and explained within the raw kanji that super-dimensional includes "cho" and "jigen," which means beyond dimensionality if you plug it together, so it isn't just something that sounds cool or a 4D realm as you claim, it's a product that's literally beyond the extensions of dimensions themself.

However, in the context of dragon ball, it’s likely just another “dimension” as in universe, (Cause, y’know, 12 universes) which the writer himself has said I believe. Jigen even as a whole also literally means “dimension” ONLY as a combined term, not dimensionS

As I have said, if you plug in "cho-jigen" to a translator, it doesn't say "beyond dimensions" or "beyond dimension" it says "ultra-dimensionality" so if "cho" means beyond, this means beyond dimensionality as a whole. If you're just using "jigen" to formulate a conclusion, ignoring the fact that the other letters can change meaning of the translation, then this is a cherry-picking fallacy.

 

[Rayfire]

Yet it's shown and explained within the raw kanji that super-dimensional includes "cho" and "jigen," which means beyond dimensionality if you plug it together, so it isn't just something that sounds cool or a 4D realm as you claim, it's a product that's literally beyond the extensions of dimensions themself.

“Super-dimensional” is, once again, a very subjective term. We don’t even know if the author means dimensionality in this context, let alone where it would scale even if that was the case. It could be just a 4D thing, or a 10D thing, we don’t know. So even if that’s what they meant, the statement is far too vague to be used.

As I have said, if you plug in "cho-jigen" it doesn't say "beyond dimensions" or "beyond dimension" it says "ultra-dimensionality" so if "cho" means beyond, this means beyond dimensionality as a whole. If you're just using "jigen" to formulate a conclusion, ignoring the fact that the other letters can change meaning of the translation, then this is a cherry-picking fallacy.

I think this needs to be said, but google translate isn’t exactly the most reliable source for this stuff why would you use a software known for being goofy as heck? Doesn’t sound like a very useful tool for “disproving” something

If you go to an ACTUAL source online, like Wikipedia, The actual definition is “Transdimensional” which is completely different from what you are trying to claim. “Transdimensional” according this sub-page, literally just means to be beyond the third dimension, which, dragon ball basically already does with Tier 2 feats, so all that statement really proves is 2-C Goku slightly more. Since there is no evidence for it being a specific dimensionality, we have to assume 4-D by wiki rules and common sense as a bare minimum, which is just a Tier 2 feat.

You are literally trying to claim 1-A dragon ball with a Low 2-C statement

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

If you plug in "cho-jigen" it doesn't say "beyond dimensions," it says "ultra-dimensionality" so if "cho" means beyond, this means beyond dimensionality as a whole either way.

Let me guess, your source is google translate. Here's a problem with that, Google Translate is an unreliable site, according to a fair quantity of viewers; the site tends to be sensitive with the smallest changes. So it's up to you to prove the validity of google translate over any other translator to fit your own reasoning. If you plug it in something like DeepL, which is a translator considered to be better and more accurate than Google Translate, it states that cho-jigen simply means "trans-dimensional," not even super-dimensional. Heck, the same result is in something like Yandex Translator, only with it being "hyper" instead of "trans," and, Yandex, which, again, is largely considered to be above the likes of Google Translate with no other complaint other than the fact it can alter phrases of long texts. Now, we can plug it in within Jishio, which is self-evidently, probably the most popular and accurate translator when it comes to kanji, and, what do you know? Same result.

So, the majority is in favor of "hyperdimensional," (which is essentially the same thing as "super-dimensional" as "hyper" and "super" are synonyms. Not to mention, when "cho" is plugged in a translator like Jishio, instead of a singular "super," it also mentions "hyper") not "ultra-dimensionality." And even if that isn't enough, literally just plug it into any other translator other than google translate, and guess what, the same thing shows up. Since the majority and most well awarded translators favor in "hyperdimensional," it's safe to assume that it is the correct interpretation. And it can very well easily be deduced that these words mean "beyond dimensions" and not "beyond dimensionality" as everybody else here is claiming for it to be the case.

 

[Rayfire]

So, the majority is in favor of "hyperdimensional," not "ultra-dimensionality." And even if that isn't enough, literally just plug it into any other translator other than google translate, and guess what, the same thing shows up. Since the majority and most well awarded translators favors in "super-dimensional" or "hyperdimensional," it's safe to assume that it is the correct interpretation. And it can very well easily be deduced that these words mean "beyond dimensions" and not "beyond dimensionality" as everybody else here is claiming for it to be the case.

There’s An actual definition in the Wikipedia page I showed above, ^ which shows it literally just means “transdimensional” which is basically just 4-D as I’ve explained without further context, which, obviously, dragon ball already is, Although “Hyperdimensional” also just sounds like another subjective term a writer would make for swag factor, and also doesn’t have any further context other than that apparently, so it’d still be 4-D either way, lol

But yeah, I think everyone is against 1-A dragon ball, and so am I

 

[Rayfire]

Just for good measure, There’s also the fact that, even if there was nothing wrong with this statement, it would completely contradict the already established cosmology within dragon ball, which is much more, and I mean MUCH MORE consistent than this one tiny statement in some random guidebook. Meaning that it literally can’t be used no matter what

 

[CelestialVortex01]

We still got the subspace it's not the end of the world

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

We still got the subspace it's not the end of the world

Oh please, don't flatter me. Subspace essentially means a subset of a space that's contained within a larger space, and so, it doesn't mean absolutely anything in regards to higher-dimensionality or 1-A tiering at the slightest, it's simply a dimension within a dimension. The scan you're referring to that asserts that the ROSAT is a subspace is logically accurate, as it's a smaller space contaminated a larger space, being the Living World. Plus, the same scan mentions the fact that the ROSAT has no concept of time, which is objectively inaccurate as it's been stated countless times that the ROSAT is quite literally a time dimension. So the scan isn't even reliable to use as it immensely contradicts the cosmology and narrative of DB.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

We still got the subspace it's not the end of the world

(its not 1-A)

 

[Rayfire]

We still got the subspace it's not the end of the world

Dunno what that is, but if it was 1-A we’d be seeing goku soloing everybody

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Oh please, don't flatter me. Subspace essentially means a subset of a space that's contained within a larger space, and so, it doesn't mean absolutely anything in regards to higher-dimensionality or 1-A tiering at the slightest, it's simply a dimension within a dimension. The scan you're referring to that asserts that the ROSAT is a subspace is logically accurate, as it's a smaller space contaminated a larger space, being the Living World. Plus, the same scan mentions the fact that the ROSAT has no concept of time, which is objectively inaccurate as it's been stated countless times that the ROSAT is quite literally a time dimension. So the scan isn't even reliable to use as it immensely contradicts the cosmology and narrative of DB.

I wasn't referring to the RoSaT but alright

 

[Robo432343]

agree with gokuversal

 

[Aaaaa11112222]

I wasn't referring to the RoSaT but alright

What were you referring to, then?

 

[CelestialVortex01]

What were you referring to, then?

This subspace specifically!
Edit:I believe that one of the translators already translated this scan (ngl I'm not sure if it's even enough to grant us a 1-A rating, but I'm grateful for our 5D cosmology)

 

[Kanogami]

Can this please be moved or closed? This is not the appropriate section of the forum to hold this discussion in.

 

[Robo432343]

goku is literally goku

 

[Antvasima]

Can this please be moved or closed? This is not the appropriate section of the forum to hold this discussion in.

I moved it.

 

[Rayfire]

This should probably be closed, since there obviously aren’t any arguments in favor of this

 

[Rayfire]

I moved it.

W Ant

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have seen the same forged scans so many times before...

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I have seen the same forged scans so many times before...

I don't think any of the scans are forged here it's just one of the scans is an argument or explanation.

 

[Antvasima]

Should we close this thread then?

 

[Rayfire]

Should we close this thread then?

Yup

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I will close this then.