Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Chariot190]

Doubt?

Bro nobody "fears" any verse, it's just a hobby, shit ain't serious

 

[Nullflowerblush]

How many Dragon Ball CRTs are open right now?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The notion probably wouldn't fly by in a CRT, given the bulk of the argument is extrapolation of visual details, but I'd be all for Perfect Cell being 50x Semi-Perfect Cell (>12.4054319 Foe) and then unleashing yet another 50x (>620.271595 Foe) for Goku to scale to.

Would bring them even closer to that Solar Kamehameha calculation all you guys keep wanting them to scale to.

Another 50x? Why?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Additionally, Perfect Cell develops a Super Saiyan's aura against Goku.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Bro nobody "fears" any verse, it's just a hobby, shit ain't serious

If people take E dating seriously it's definitely possible for people to take powerscaling seriously especially if a specific verse they dislike receives a massive upgrade. It's unlikely but can still happen. Being chronically online like that is concerning though.

 

[Chariot190]

If people take E dating seriously it's definitely possible for people to take powerscaling seriously especially if a specific verse they dislike receives a massive upgrade. It's unlikely but can still happen. Being chronically online like that is concerning though.

that's being petty, not being afraid

 

[TiltedFN]

wait so what exactly were the disagreements about?

uhh visuals, yada yada yada, big glass dome universe blah blah blah, yknow

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

that's being petty, not being afraid

I can't really perceive into the mind of someone chronically online or talk from experience since I'm not chronically online but fear can definitely be part of this conversation IMO. But yeah one interpretation could be being petty as you stated

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

uhh visuals, yada yada yada, big glass dome universe blah blah blah, yknow

Hehehe, if Daima presents Infinite Universe again they will have to accept it, i just hope that this time it doesn't come with the excuse of translation error or hypebole.

 

[RedReaper616]

the positioning you can't since the distance between them would be wrong no matter what, you can't see the number of asteroids, the dwarf planets, etc, even the color most of the time isn't 100% accurate, so again, this example doesn't work

1) Distance is apart of the scale of size. Making it irrelevant. 2) Again, it is about the model of the planets, depicted, so things outside of that aren’t to be discussed. 3) The color is typically correct as far as being able to be visualized through colors we have available. The sun being yellow-orange, the Earth being blue and green, etc. If you mean hyper specific shades like the difference between “Hex: #42f572 green,” and “Hex: #42f573 green,” the amount of nitpicking you’re doing is so unreasonable that you may have re-evaluate what you’re saying.

as well

Ditto again.

composited cosmology remember? if it is for one, it is for the other

You’re totally right, actually, forgot about this.

and yet the Anime has that zoom out scene...........a guide is secondary to the source

The same applies to all the examples I listed, then? Grand Kai’s model, DBK’s direct visual, DBS: Manga, etc. Your scene is the outlier, not the other way around.

is Kai even cannon for us to use here? we consider the og Toei anime as a cannon alternate universe.......pretty sure we don't consider Kai, also which episode from Kai does the scene come from? do we even know if it is from Kai? also you didn't showed a scene from Toei

1) Good question, actually. 2) We’ll have to check. 3) Multiple episodes. It serves as apart of the Episode Title. For example, “A Time of Trials! Lay Hold of Legendary Powers!” Or “Find The Nuisances Babidi's Retaliation Begins!” 4) I did, though instead of it being the Universe head on it was Grand Kai holding a model of the Universe.

that you assuming i agree with the latter depiction any more than the Map.......which i don't

Then why are you claiming DBS’ zoom out is a valid use to ignore the explicitly penned model?

excluding the points that go against an idea just because i believe in said idea is not accurate to me

Likewise, you shouldn’t ignore the other points that directly contradict your own.

this phrase, as i said, is self contradicting itself, size is integral part of a visual no matter how you try to deny it as such

No. If I have a flag with every color but blue, and I comment “this flag has literally every color but blue!” It’s not self contradictory. It’s being affected by modifiers.

likewise you ignoring that size is intrinsically part of a visual

But it’s not the ONLY visual cue. There’s still positioning of the Kaio planets, the revolution of the Kai Realm, where Heaven is, etc. You’re trying to ignore everything else it has just due to size.

the distances between the dimensions, which are space times, thus wouldn't be physically "away" or "close" to one another

So…size. Yippee.

you trying to disqualify it as irrelevant to not deal with it doesn't make it true

But it is irrelevant. Your whole point is about how the universes look in the Anime, ignoring how it doesn’t model the Macrocosm correctly.

you not supporting infinite universe has nothing to do with anything, infinite universe itself has nothing to do with it, i have no idea why you bring calculation into this when i didn't cited it anywhere in the part you are answering

Then it makes your position on size even more worthless. Nothing about size matters if we’re focusing solely on the visuals such as the realms, the the position of planets, etc. Because, again, your whole point relies on a visual that you agree doesn’t hold up at all to the actual depth of the Macrocosm try and hold above a visual that only is flawed in sense of scale.

don't see why since it doesn't answer the point made

Then re-read it

.........the universe is so big compared to mere galaxies that not seeing them is quite irrelevant, also for the dimensions not showing? yeah, this is why it isn't also any accurate

Then why and how would it at all be relevant to use as the “unabstracted” version of the universe?

which as i said, it is cherry picking, you can't be literal while ignoring aspects of it, that isn't how "literal" works

Read flag point again.

 

[Omegabronic]

1) Distance is apart of the scale of size. Making it irrelevant.

nope, as i said, it is part of why it is RELEVANT, one of your examples is a zoom out shot of the universe in the DBS manga, which would make the size inconsistencies just how it looks......which again, has several problems, i don't like to repeat myself, no matter how much you try to spin around it, size is part integral to appearance, if you won't address any further than "it isn't relevant because i said so" then i suggest you and stop wasting each other's time

2) Again, it is about the model of the planets, depicted

no, this is about if it is an accurate model of the solar system......which as i said, it isn't

, so things outside of that aren’t to be discussed.

which is why size is being discussed as it is intrinsically inside of "that"

3) The color is typically correct as far as being able to be visualized through colors we have available. The sun being yellow-orange, the Earth being blue and green, etc. If you mean hyper specific shades like the difference between “Hex: #42f572 green,” and “Hex: #42f573 green,” the amount of nitpicking you’re doing is so unreasonable that you may have re-evaluate what you’re saying.

mars is depicted as vibrant red when it is in reality nearly brown for example

Ditto again.

not my favorite ben 10 alien, but ditto

The same applies to all the examples I listed, then?

Grand Kai’s model

not a zoom out

DBK’s direct visual

need source to check

DBS: Manga

only checkable zoom out in your examples

etc. Your scene is the outlier, not the other way around.

oh so there is others than the examples you said? what does the "etc" means here?

1) Good question, actually. 2) We’ll have to check.

so let's not consider it since we don't consider it cannon like the og toei anime and we don't even know if the image you showed is from kai

3) Multiple episodes. It serves as apart of the Episode Title. For example, “A Time of Trials! Lay Hold of Legendary Powers!” Or “Find The Nuisances Babidi's Retaliation Begins!”

those are only in the english release, the japanese og only shows the lookout

Then why are you claiming DBS’ zoom out is a valid use to ignore the explicitly penned model?

have you read what you are answering? i am not

Likewise, you shouldn’t ignore the other points that directly contradict your own.

so you admit you were ignoring and cherry picking as i said you were? nice

also since you think my point is using another model i also do not agree with........way to dig your own grave my dude

No. If I have a flag with every color but blue, and I comment “this flag has literally every color but blue!” It’s not self contradictory. It’s being affected by modifiers.

......this doesn't answer the point at all

But it’s not the ONLY visual cue.

never said, nor implied, as much

There’s still positioning of the Kaio planets

didn't you said that this was also "size" thus "irrelevant"? convenient that you are using it now

the revolution of the Kai Realm, where Heaven is, etc.

revolution? what????

You’re trying to ignore everything else it has just due to size.

not really? i am not ignoring it, just that the multiple position and size contradictions overcompensate any accuracy it could have had............you are even talking about position/size in the examples you gave even.......so you kind of agreed with me

So…size. Yippee.

not size when it is the very logic of how space times function.....you really can't ignore this point

But it is irrelevant. Your whole point is about how the universes look in the Anime, ignoring how it doesn’t model the Macrocosm correctly.

no, my entire point is that the map is wrong, i couldn't care less about the DBS Anime visuals of it

Then it makes your position on size even more worthless. Nothing about size matters if we’re focusing solely on the visuals such as the realms, the the position of planets, etc. Because, again, your whole point relies on a visual that you agree doesn’t hold up at all to the actual depth of the Macrocosm try and hold above a visual that only is flawed in sense of scale.

as i said, my point isn't trying to make any model in specific the real one, so again, your arguing against nothing right now, against a point i never made

Then re-read it

i did.............didn't changed what i thought when i wrote that..............now what?

Then why and how would it at all be relevant to use as the “unabstracted” version of the universe?

simple: IT WOULDN'T

Read flag point again.

nothing changes at all from me reading that again, didn't made sense for the first time, didn't made now in the second time

 

[Damage3245]

I can't wait till either the manga returns or Dragon Ball Daima is released so we have brand new things to talk about.

 

[RenderGK]

The most consistent model of the literal shape of the universe in this is the map of the macrocosm.

We have more tests of kai, manga, anime guide of super.

and on the contrary just a scene from a universe of a galaxy.

That cannot be so literal since Jaco states the universe has innumerable galaxies.

Here you are simply subjectively choosing what suits you best.

practically a double standard.

and, this is laughable

 

[Chariot190]

I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The most consistent model of the literal shape of the universe in this is the map of the macrocosm.

We have more tests of kai, manga, anime guide of super.

and on the contrary just a scene from a universe of a galaxy.

That cannot be so literal since Jaco states the universe has innumerable galaxies.

Here you are simply subjectively choosing what suits you best.

practically a double standard.

and, this is laughable

You bet you thought not to make hell universal in size, since hell is the size of the Universe shown on the map, lol

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

"Appeal to authority" is not a fallacy that works here.

This is a myth that needs to go.

Appeal to authority works everywhere. Staff may state one thing, that doesn't mean it's the ultimate truth.

If an apple is red, it's gonna be red even if any of the staff members or any of the wiki pages say it's blue.

Objectiveness > Subjectiveness.

 

[RenderGK]

I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too

It is simply a galaxy like that 3c.

It is the visual and nothing else matters.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

If DBZ is so fast, why is it called supersonic warriors 2 and not MFTL+ warriors 2?
Hmmmmm, makes ya think don't it?

It's like the title "Diamond is Unbreakable" but yet we see Star Platinum breaking diamond like teeth

 

[RenderGK]

In addition to galaxies, it is contradicted why you only see a Galaxy once.

If then the universe is 3C and megalxies do not exist.

ha

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It is simply a galaxy like that 3c.

It is the visual and nothing else matters.

That's not even the worst of the arguments, look on the bright side, at least they don't say that DB has only 4 galaxies or that all 12 Universes have the same space-time

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Some people be like

They say they'll the universe to 3-A

They don't realize it'd still be Low 2-C at worst, and tier 2 would persist

Lol.

 

[Chariot190]

In addition to galaxies, it is contradicted why you only see a Galaxy once.

If then the universe is 3C and megalxies do not exist.

ha

Literally what are you talking about
"I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too "


Surely you don't think the elliptical lights and shining small discs are mere stars do you? Going by visuals only, it isn't "one galaxy", let alone the context.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

that all 12 Universes have the same space-time

Oh, right. I forgot we invented a hypertimeline to explain how time travelling affects the entire Multiverse.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Oh, right. I forgot we invented a hypertimeline to explain how time travelling affects the entire Multiverse.

We didn't invent anything. The wiki did.

3-A is the true invention here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I can't wait till either the manga returns or Dragon Ball Daima is released so we have brand new things to talk about.

We should go back and gather up every Lifting Strength feat in the original series.
That, or give Cell Super Saiyan.

 

[RenderGK]

They look like stars eh, you know what if you only see a galaxy.

It does not have a spiral shape, if the universe is 3c, since the visual is literal.

Also, if you say that they are galaxies, then the stars there are the size of Galaxies.

How ridiculous

Literally what are you talking about
"I like how we forget DB has established super galaxies comprised of a fucktillion normal galaxies, and in that same shot we see tiny galaxies around the super massive one, which in and of themselves probably giga galaxies too "


Surely you don't think the elliptical lights and shining small discs are mere stars do you? Going by visuals only, it isn't "one galaxy", let alone the context.

Visually it is a galaxy, universe 3c, it is the literal and most represented.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

We didn't invent anything. The wiki did.

3-A is the true invention here.

We, the Wiki,
In order to form a more powerful Goku,

 

[Spinoirr]

We should go back and gather up every Lifting Strength feat in the original series.
That, or give Cell Super Saiyan.

Both

Remember jumping can get LS or any feat that grants tons of force

 

[Damage3245]

We should go back and gather up every Lifting Strength feat in the original series.
That, or give Cell Super Saiyan.

Let's do the former. Comprehensive DB Lifting Strength analysis.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

Take me back to 2015 dragon ball debating with me and ssjryu vs Matthew, good times

 

[Chariot190]

We should go back and gather up every Lifting Strength feat in the original series.

i literally already did that, even included jumping feats and stuff like goku swinging frieza, dbz has nothing beyond class M unless ya count deflecting ki blasts whch eh

They look like stars eh, you know what if you only see a galaxy.

They don't, in what world is this a star?

It does not have a spiral shape, if the universe is 3c, since the visual is literal.

You know multiple types of galaxies exist yeah?
Spiral galaxies aren't even the most common type iirc.

Also, if you say that they are galaxies, then the stars there are the size of Galaxies.

You know galaxies can vary in size, especially in a verse with direct evidence, stated and visually without abstraction, of super massive galaxies?

How ridiculous

Don't be petty and obtuse lad. Blame Toei, not me.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Goku drags an entire tree in "Goku Goes to Demon Land", if the Daizenshuu 7's "Chronological Table of the Dragon Ball World" successfully canonizes the training filler.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Oh, right. I forgot we invented a hypertimeline to explain how time travelling affects the entire Multiverse.

With your theories i'm sure the Universe would be 3-A for sure

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Take me back to 2015 dragon ball debating with me and ssjryu vs Matthew, good times

As you said, hypebole, poetry, poem, flowery language.

 

[Chariot190]

With your theories i'm sure the Universe would be 3-A for sure

"the universe would be universal"
i get what you meant but that doesnt come off as downplay

 

[RenderGK]

They don't, in what world is this a star?

You know multiple types of galaxies exist yeah?
Spiral galaxies aren't even the most common type iirc.

3h if it doesn't look like a galaxy visually then it's not a galaxy it looks like a cloud.

so the tests for mega galaxies and other galaxies.

are contradicted by the visual, and since the visual is literary, the universe is 3C.

 

[Chariot190]

3h if it doesn't look like a galaxy visually then it's not a galaxy it looks like a cloud.

You know galaxies can look like that yes?

so the tests for mega galaxies and other galaxies.

We can literally confirm onscreen, in that very instance, the existence of variable galaxies.

are contradicted by the visual, and since the visual is literary, the universe is 3C.

We see, at the very least, hundreds of galaxies, and a mega one composed by others.

Stop pretending to be dense, even if you ignore the fact super galaxies exist, not only irl, not only in dbz, but even in that very image. you'd be objectively wrong thinking it'd be just 3-C based on the visual alone. Cut it out lad.

also i found another funny fucky like that too, might be 2 literal examples now.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

"the universe would be universal"
i get what you meant but that doesnt come off as downplay

Taste that Universe 7 is not 2-C, low 2-C, and make chaos reign.

After doing this, make sure you have good solid arguments to leave 3-A, if not i will come back here to make sure your theory falls apart

 

[RenderGK]

You know galaxies can look like that yes?

We can literally confirm onscreen, in that very instance, the existence of variable galaxies.

We see, at the very least, hundreds of galaxies, and a mega one composed by others.

Stop pretending to be dense, even if you ignore the fact super galaxies exist, not only irl, not only in dbz, but even in that very image. you'd be objectively wrong thinking it'd be just 3-C based on the visual alone. Cut it out lad.

also i found another funny fucky like that too, might be 2 literal examples now.

and good if you want to continue answering.

I will continue since visually nothing there was shaped like Galaxi

esIf it doesn't visually look like a galaxy then it isn't.

and the visual >> statements and beliefs of oneself

 

[Chariot190]

Taste that Universe 7 is not 2-C, low 2-C, and make chaos reign.

After doing this, make sure you have good solid arguments to leave 3-A, if not i will come back here to make sure your theory falls apart

What are you yapping about man, i dont plan on doing shit except maybe calc a few feats so the verse ain't just suckling off frieza's feat for ten million multipliers