Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[RanHover60]

Yeah I really hate to admit it but if the visuals of u6 and 7 were accepted as being accurate, we need to take the 2c ratings into questioning too.

 

[Killerdrone123]

I Love dragon ball

 

[omegabronic]

Have you seen a model of the Solar System?

You can clearly see the planets, and the Sun.

But not the countless asteroids, colorful gasses and what not there is, it is just a representation, not what ot actually looks like

But it’s obviously not to scale, because the Sun is so much more massive than Earth or the Moon or Mars that it’s not conceivable to make it as much larger than it needs to be over those other celestial objects outside of just being decently larger/the largest sphere.

Thus why they are not what the solar system look like, just serving to represent them in a simplyfied manner

However, the model is still visually accurate.

it isn't

The planets are still spheres. The Sun is still in the center. The Earth is still made of water and land. So while the SIZES are NOT TO SCALE, it is STILL an ACCURATE and LITERAL VISUAL representation of the Universe’s APPEARANCE.

You can't say that it is a simplyfied representation while saying that it is how it litterally looks like, that is again, self contradicting, your solar system model allegory doesn't have any value herr since it also isn't an literal representation of what the solar system looks like

Which you have ALREADY AGREED TO in your OWN THREAD on this you linked to me prior.

i didn't, i never did, and the recent rejected threads only comfirms what i always said there

Like I said before, what you are mentioning is IRRELEVANT and you are disagreeing to disagree.

No it isn't when it is the basis for the infinite universe thread to have been rejected, trying to dismiss counters to your argument by saying they are "irrelevant" never works, drop it

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah I really hate to admit it but if the visuals of u6 and 7 were accepted as being accurate, we need to take the 2c ratings into questioning too.

Plan on doing that later

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Yo why did I see the word “outlier” in that thread? Doesn’t VBW give out free infinite, immeasurable, etc ratings to folks who are portrayed as immensely slower?

 

[Ednaxel2]

One of the Episode Title shots, I believe. But if you want to see it visually, here.

Oh so thats where the image is from, I might see it if I rewatch the series

Where can I join that thread?

The thread hasn't happened yet

 

[Killerdrone123]

Yo why did I see the word “outlier” in that thread? Doesn’t VBW give out free infinite, immeasurable, etc ratings to folks who are portrayed as immensely slower?

Dragon ball is just built different here

 

[Huesito88]

Yes, I own the verse now

Clover, my allegiance is to the Oligarchy, to Plutocracy!

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Dragon ball is just built different here

Wrd. We got regular humans having higher tiers than the super powered alien that can transform.

 

[RedReaper616]

But not the countless asteroids, colorful gasses and what not there is, it is just a representation, not what ot actually looks like

It is what the objects chosen to be depicted look like, which is the point.

Thus why they are not what the solar system look like, just serving to represent them in a simplyfied manner

I don’t think having a visually accurate outside of size model means that the visual accuracy becomes irrelevant, sorry.

it isn't

It very clearly is. In Kai, DBS: Manga, and Toei Anime.

You can't say that it is a simplyfied representation while saying that it is how it litterally looks like, that is again, self contradicting, your solar system model allegory doesn't have any value herr since it also isn't an literal representation of what the solar system looks like

We literally see the Universe straight on twice (Kai and DBS Manga) and it’s visually identical to the model. It’s not an “abstraction.” It’s not “simplified.” It is the literal appearance of the universe in those instances. To deny that is to literally purposely ignore evidence.

i didn't, i never did, and the recent rejected threads only comfirms what i always said there

It’s literally in your OP.

now you may be thinking, "this only applies to the dbs anime, manga stays the same as it uses the macrocosm map", well, that brings me to my second point 2: the map is clearly not in scale, and you can clearly see the map makes the snake way, which is only 1.000.000 km long, is seemingly 2x the universe in height if put in a horizontal position, also king kai's planet, which is extremely small, is via this map only 14.25x smaller than the entire living universe, so even in the manga, it shouldn't be used to calc since it is clearly out of scale in size.

It is literally an admission of “this is objectively accurate visually in the manga, but it’s not to scale, thus it’s not useable for calculation.”

Which is what I fully agreed to in thread, because I don’t support Infinite Uni.

No it isn't when it is the basis for the infinite universe thread to have been rejected, trying to dismiss counters to your argument by saying they are "irrelevant" never works, drop it

It is entirely irrelevant. We are talking visual accuracy ignoring the clear size inconsistency of the model. What the universe specifically, and ONLY, looks like without size AT ALL in the question. This is SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE we are comparing the U6vU7 Universe appearance (which also can’t really be to scale, as it would make the universes vastly smaller than we know they are, as pointed out), to that of the cosmological model repeatedly used and shown to be literal in other Dragon Ball mediums.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

The thread hasn't happened yet

Then where is the Solar System stuff being sorted out?

Also I did these calcs if you wish to use them

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

A possible Class M upgrade for Dragon Ball

Oozaru Goku was able to perform this feat And Tao was able to perform this feat Both are in the range of Class M, so a upgrade should be applied

vsbattles.com

 

[Chariot190]

If DBZ is so fast, why is it called supersonic warriors 2 and not MFTL+ warriors 2?
Hmmmmm, makes ya think don't it?

 

[TheGreatBanana]

Yeah omega in some kinda Crack.
Using the u6vu7 makes 0 sense because it shows the universes with one galaxy, and without other dimensions. And both anime and manga depict the universe as it shown in the map.
Unless you wanna argue that a macrocosm is only 1 galaxy big, and kaioshin realm and the afterlife don't exist. But what do i know eh

 

[TheGreatBanana]

If DBZ is so fast, why is it called supersonic warriors 2 and not MFTL+ warriors 2?
Hmmmmm, makes ya think don't it?

Valid ong.
Db is only atom sized after all, so everyone is less than subsonic

 

[omegabronic]

Yeah omega in some kinda Crack.
Using the u6vu7 makes 0 sense because it shows the universes with one galaxy, and without other dimensions. And both anime and manga depict the universe as it shown in the map.
Unless you wanna argue that a macrocosm is only 1 galaxy big, and kaioshin realm and the afterlife don't exist. But what do i know eh

i don't agree with using that either, i have made that clear, that doesn't mean that the other VERY WRONG OPTION isn't also horribly wrong

outside the fact that the U6vsU7 model doesn't have visible galaxies, sooo

 

[Quantu]

"But if you close your eyes..."

 

[TheGreatBanana]

i don't agree with using that either, i have made that clear, that doesn't mean that the other VERY WRONG OPTION isn't also horribly wrong

outside the fact that the U6vsU7 model doesn't have visible galaxies, sooo

Explain how the other option is wrong.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I was looking at random DB pages and came across this.

Is there any kind of guide, interview or something that confirms something like that?

The third degree looks like Cell even looks like SS, but the aura, well, it has no color in the manga.

I just want to know if it's more theory/speculation or if there's any more direct evidence.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

The original map must return, this map of Universe 7 in DBS anime does not present the complete cosmology, which has been referred to since ancient and new times as well

Furthermore, the map is even used in the Dragon Ball super anime, where there is the first super guide, saying that there are 12 Universes

 

[RedReaper616]

Further, Omega, explain how the other option is wrong without resorting to scale of objects, as it’s irrelevant entirely to the actual point—Which is not the “use of calculation” for the universe, but actual visual appearance of the universe. Which is what the U6vU7 version is directly being pitted against (whilst also being visually inadequate for scale, making your point actually entirely worthless/internally inconsistent, as by your logic neither should count, not one or the other.)

 

[omegabronic]

It is what the objects chosen to be depicted look like, which is the point.

exept that it doesn't.........i said this in this part you are answering even

I don’t think having a visually accurate outside of size model means that the visual accuracy becomes irrelevant, sorry.

what visual accuracy? you say it looks "litterally like that" without taking everything from it litterally, can't cherry pick parts of it to fit your beliefs

It very clearly is. In Kai, DBS: Manga, and Toei Anime.

taking moments of its usage to say it is visually accurate? what are those suppose to prove? the DBS Anime never shows it btw, so if "it was used = it is accurate" then you still ahave a problem to solver

We literally see the Universe straight on twice (Kai and DBS Manga) and it’s visually identical to the model.

no, it is the model, thus having all of its problems and contradictions, again, showing times it was used doesn't doesn't solve the problem here at all

It’s not an “abstraction.” It’s not “simplified.” It is the literal appearance of the universe in those instances.

so Heaven is smaller than the Living universe despite it being said to be the same size as it? Kaioshin realm is smaller than the Living Universe despite being 1/10 of both afterlife and living world combined(making it bigger than the latter)? the 1.000.000 Km Snake way is half the universe's length?

To deny that is to literally purposely ignore evidence.

to deny all the inacuracies and cherry pick what you will use despite saying that it is the "literal" appearance is just dishonest

It’s literally in your OP.



It is literally an admission of “this is objectively accurate visually in the manga, but it’s not to scale, thus it’s not useable for calculation.”

oh good, you saw my back up point in my objective in that thread of removing the map from calculations, good, you won't ignore the first main point, will you?

Which is what I fully agreed to in thread, because I don’t support Infinite Uni.

one has nothing to do with the other

It is entirely irrelevant. We are talking visual accuracy ignoring the clear size inconsistency of the model.

size is PART OF VISUAL ACCURACY, you are saying for us to use it LITTERALLY, stop CHERRY PICKING, either you use it literally or you don't

What the universe specifically, and ONLY, looks like without size AT ALL in the question. This is SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE we are comparing the U6vU7 Universe appearance (which also can’t really be to scale, as it would make the universes vastly smaller than we know they are, as pointed out)

it wouldn't make the universe any smaller, dunno what you are talking about

to that of the cosmological model repeatedly used and shown to be literal in other Dragon Ball mediums.

again, if you say "it is literal" then you MUST USE THE SIZE AS YOU WOULD BE CONSIDERING IT LITERAL

 

[omegabronic]

Explain how the other option is wrong.

i did already.......multiple times

 

[omegabronic]

Further, Omega, explain how the other option is wrong without resorting to scale of objects, as it’s irrelevant entirely to the actual point—Which is not the “use of calculation” for the universe, but actual visual appearance of the universe. Which is what the U6vU7 version is directly being pitted against (whilst also being visually inadequate for scale, making your point actually entirely worthless/internally inconsistent, as by your logic neither should count, not one or the other.)

size is integral part of "appearence" mr "the map is literal"

you if you want to say it is what it looks like, no simplification or abstraction, then you must consider the size as literal as well, anything else would be just cherrypicking to fit your view while ignoring the clear problems with it

 

[TheGreatBanana]

size is integral part of "appearence" mr "the map is literal"

you if you want to say it is what it looks like, no simplification or abstraction, then you must consider the size as literal as well, anything else would be just cherrypicking to fit your view while ignoring the clear problems with it

If both options have problems. We resort to the ones with less problems and contradictions.
Which Is using the map because it's literal, it shows each location and all the realms, but it has problems in size.
But as for using visuals, they have problem in size, inaccurate image of the macrocosm, and the fact that they literally don't show all of the macrocosm.
It's clear which option is better and safer.

 

[RedReaper616]

exept that it doesn't.........i said this in this part you are answering even

Yes, it does. In a model such as that I can reasonably and accurately claim the Sun is a specific color, the number of planets within the Solar System, the appearance of those planets (without size), the positioning, etc. Saying “it isn’t because it isn’t” doesn’t actually bring any value or counter anything.

what visual accuracy? you say it looks "litterally like that" without taking everything from it litterally, can't cherry pick parts of it to fit your beliefs

Read above.

taking moments of its usage to say it is visually accurate? what are those suppose to prove? the DBS Anime never shows it btw, so if "it was used = it is accurate" then you still ahave a problem to solver

I also stated outright that saying it’s different for the Anime specifically is fine, (though as provided by Luffy that is apparently accurate for them regardless via guide), so this is irrelevant as well. Furthermore, your exact point you’re using is “what we saw in this specific instance that was used to literally show the universe.” Pointing out that Kai, the DBS Manga, and Toei all have this same thing and it’s actually Toriyama’s model shouldn’t be a “what is it supposed to prove?” Moment. Because that same question can be applied to you. What is taking the Super Shenron moment, a visual indicator, as literal supposed to prove about the cosmology?

no, it is the model, thus having all of its problems and contradictions, again, showing times it was used doesn't doesn't solve the problem here at all

Can both be applied to your moment and again, not including size, what is the issue?

so Heaven is smaller than the Living universe despite it being said to be the same size as it? Kaioshin realm is smaller than the Living Universe despite being 1/10 of both afterlife and living world combined(making it bigger than the latter)? the 1.000.000 Km Snake way is half the universe's length?

I literally said it’s not to scale but still visually accurate. You trying to claim I’m saying otherwise and ignoring what I’m saying doesn’t mean anything whatsoever. Or counter anything.

to deny all the inacuracies and cherry pick what you will use despite saying that it is the "literal" appearance is just dishonest

Outside of size, what is inaccurate?

oh good, you saw my back up point in my objective in that thread of removing the map from calculations, good, you won't ignore the first main point, will you?

…The point irrelevant to conversation? Size? I will, because I already specified it was irrelevant.

one has nothing to do with the other

Then why are you trying to make it about calculation use and scale when we’re talking specifically about what the universe looks like, visually?

size is PART OF VISUAL ACCURACY, you are saying for us to use it LITTERALLY, stop CHERRY PICKING, either you use it literally or you don't

Read point one.

it wouldn't make the universe any smaller, dunno what you are talking about

Lack of galaxies, lack of Afterlife, lack of Kai World, etc. etc.

again, if you say "it is literal" then you MUST USE THE SIZE AS YOU WOULD BE CONSIDERING IT LITERAL

Not if you read. “Outside of size, it is literal.” Thus, EVERYTHING BUT SIZE is what I refer to.

 

[omegabronic]

If both options have problems. We resort to the ones with less problems and contradictions.
Which Is using the map because it's literal, it shows each location and all the realms, but it has problems in size.
But as for using visuals, they have problem in size, inaccurate image of the macrocosm, and the fact that they literally don't show all of the macrocosm.
It's clear which option is better and safer.

no? if both have contradictions, then we simply don't use either

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Should i open a crt over the map?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

-snip-

For starters, Cell copies Trunks's transformation.
Moreover, when Cell transforms, its aura either turns into a continuous white flame (v. Trunks) or golden explosion with a translucent white inside (v. Gohan), which is a design aspect associated with Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan Second Grade, and Super Saiyan Third Grade, whereas, normally, Cell's aura is black.

Also, in the anime, Cell's aura has the same sound effect as the Super Saiyan, which is in contrast to non-Super Saiyan auras.

"Cell was startled when he saw Trunks transform into Grade Three. But the truth is that Cell himself is also capable of this power up! However, he realized that a transformation that relied on power was meaningless. He therefore tried to avoid using it."

size is integral part of "appearence" mr "the map is literal"

Evidently, if the Super manga is taken into consideration, the model of the universe associated with the original TV Anime and the guidebooks represents the literal, physical construct of the universe, whereas the glass-like globes in which they are depicted in neutral space represents their dimensional boundaries.

Curiously, said glass-like globes are suspended atop Zen-Oh's Palace, which, itself, exists within a vast, starry cosmos of its own.

 

[Damage3245]

Should i open a crt over the map?

Please, no.

So many Dragon Ball CRT's lately.

 

[Chariot190]

If both options have problems. We resort to the ones with less problems and contradictions.
Which Is using the map because it's literal, it shows each location and all the realms, but it has problems in size.
But as for using visuals, they have problem in size, inaccurate image of the macrocosm, and the fact that they literally don't show all of the macrocosm.
It's clear which option is better and safer.

Yeah, the actual time we see it and not an abstracted map

 

[RedReaper616]

no? if both have contradictions, then we simply don't use either

Don’t use either. Makes sense.

Still insists we use the Super Shenron moment though, because this is the “true” universe compared to Toriyama’s model penned by him, the Super Anime Guide, the DBS Manga, Toei’s Anime, DBZ Kai, etc. Some of these moments are shot identically to Super Shenron, making them just as valid, implying this is equally just as literal and not an abstract view for at least two of these examples. Still don’t use this though.

Uh huh. No contradictions here, guys.

 

[Chariot190]

Uh huh. No contradictions here, guys.

given as shown above, they appear like that in zeno's too, seems like super just changed shit dog

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Please, no.

I see, i won't create one for now, but soon maybe

So many Dragon Ball CRT's lately.

Could you help us finish these crt, we just need one more opinion here, invite your friend @Maverick_Zero_X too

"Smurfing through time" A Dragon Ball Super upgrade

Good day my fellow dragon ball wankers So as we know in u6 vs u7 arc in dragon ball super the tournament was held in a place call neutral space or dimension in both anime and manga which is a space that holds all the macrocosms So here comes the scaling part hit is able to use his time...

vsbattles.com

 

[Damage3245]

ould you help us finish these crt, we just need one more opinion here, invite your friend @Maverick_Zero_X too

"Smurfing through time" A Dragon Ball Super upgrade

Good day my fellow dragon ball wankers So as we know in u6 vs u7 arc in dragon ball super the tournament was held in a place call neutral space or dimension in both anime and manga which is a space that holds all the macrocosms So here comes the scaling part hit is able to use his time...

vsbattles.com

Isn't that like the 3rd thread on that topic in recent time?

 

[RedReaper616]

Evidently, if the Super manga is taken into consideration, the model of the universe associated with the original TV Anime and the guidebooks represents the literal, physical construct of the universe, whereas the glass-like globes in which they are depicted in neutral space represents their dimensional boundaries.

Doesn’t this literally imply the opposite of their claim, then?

 

[RedReaper616]

Isn't that like the 3rd thread on that topic in recent time?

Yes. It died, though.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Isn't that like the 3rd thread on that topic in recent time?

It's about Hit and cosmology, i think you could help a lot too, finish these crt quickly

There is one more about Hit's abilities and an explanation blog, we have to wrap up all the points final, Dragon Ball Daima starts in October and will fill out more cosmology, the Wiki will turn into chaos.

Hit's Time Skip: A final explanation.

Follow up of this thread, which is a follow up of this one. I made a blog explaining in detail what is exactly Hit's Time Skip, in the most organic way possible in order to give the best understanding of the ability as possible while also clearing misconceptions...

vsbattles.com

 

[Chariot190]

Doesn’t this literally imply the opposite of their claim, then?

1m km uni....

 

[omegabronic]

Yes, it does. In a model such as that I can reasonably and accurately claim the Sun is a specific color, the number of planets within the Solar System, the appearance of those planets (without size), the positioning, etc. Saying “it isn’t because it isn’t” doesn’t actually bring any value or counter anything.

the positioning you can't since the distance between them would be wrong no matter what, you can't see the number of asteroids, the dwarf planets, etc, even the color most of the time isn't 100% accurate, so again, this example doesn't work

Read above.

as well

I also stated outright that saying it’s different for the Anime specifically is fine,

composited cosmology remember? if it is for one, it is for the other

(though as provided by Luffy that is apparently accurate for them regardless via guide)

and yet the Anime has that zoom out scene...........a guide is secondary to the source

so this is irrelevant as well. Furthermore, your exact point you’re using is “what we saw in this specific instance that was used to literally show the universe.” Pointing out that Kai, the DBS Manga, and Toei all have this same thing

is Kai even cannon for us to use here? we consider the og Toei anime as a cannon alternate universe.......pretty sure we don't consider Kai, also which episode from Kai does the scene come from? do we even know if it is from Kai? also you didn't showed a scene from Toei

and it’s actually Toriyama’s model shouldn’t be a “what is it supposed to prove?” Moment. Because that same question can be applied to you. What is taking the Super Shenron moment, a visual indicator, as literal supposed to prove about the cosmology?

that you assuming i agree with the latter depiction any more than the Map.......which i don't

Can both be applied to your moment and again, not including size, what is the issue?

excluding the points that go against an idea just because i believe in said idea is not accurate to me

I literally said it’s not to scale but still visually accurate.

this phrase, as i said, is self contradicting itself, size is integral part of a visual no matter how you try to deny it as such

You trying to claim I’m saying otherwise and ignoring what I’m saying doesn’t mean anything whatsoever. Or counter anything.

likewise you ignoring that size is intrinsically part of a visual

Outside of size, what is inaccurate?

the distances between the dimensions, which are space times, thus wouldn't be physically "away" or "close" to one another

…The point irrelevant to conversation? Size? I will, because I already specified it was irrelevant.

you trying to disqualify it as irrelevant to not deal with it doesn't make it true

Then why are you trying to make it about calculation use and scale when we’re talking specifically about what the universe looks like, visually?

you not supporting infinite universe has nothing to do with anything, infinite universe itself has nothing to do with it, i have no idea why you bring calculation into this when i didn't cited it anywhere in the part you are answering

Read point one.

don't see why since it doesn't answer the point made

Lack of galaxies, lack of Afterlife, lack of Kai World, etc. etc.

.........the universe is so big compared to mere galaxies that not seeing them is quite irrelevant, also for the dimensions not showing? yeah, this is why it isn't also any accurate

Not if you read. “Outside of size, it is literal.” Thus, EVERYTHING BUT SIZE is what I refer to.

which as i said, it is cherry picking, you can't be literal while ignoring aspects of it, that isn't how "literal" works