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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

AwkguyDB said:
L
so what's the next Sonic vs Heroes Match Up
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one other stomp for one side or the other, it is always 8 or 80 with this now, either sonic stomps or get stomped, really, recent changes make it so that even my first dbh vs sonic thread is now not doable at all, seriously, not even a power/speed gap will matter in the end, for **** sake it was the same thing when super sonic got low 2-C, godamn is sonic vs dbs forever to be cursed?
 
I forgot how Zenkai explained it but Iirc the heroes characters never interact or go to the The real world and Beat’s world isn’t the real world but the real world is an actual world that sees Beat’s World and the Multiverse as fiction but it doesn’t scale to anyone
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
I forgot how Zenkai explained it but Iirc the heroes characters never interact or go to the The real world and Beat’s world isn’t the real world but the real world is an actual world that sees Beat’s World and the Multiverse as fiction but it doesn’t scale to anyone
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Yeah, pretty much this. Beat's world is just a future version of the Dragon Ball world.

There is an actual "real world" (which technically isn't the real world either, but is at least closer) that sees the rest of Heroes (the arcade, main manga, Victory Mission, etc.) as fiction, and is often the source of the in-universe Dragon Ball Heroes game in Beat's world, but nobody with profiles would scale to it.
 
Fezzih_007 said:
It uses the Real world argument, which as rejected here i think. For the 1-C.
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Dominodalek said:
Yeah, pretty much this. Beat's world is just a future version of the Dragon Ball world.

There is an actual "real world" (which technically isn't the real world either, but is at least closer) that sees the rest of Heroes (the arcade, main manga, Victory Mission, etc.) as fiction, and is often the source of the in-universe Dragon Ball Heroes game in Beat's world, but nobody with profiles would scale to it.
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Pretty much what happens when the battle-boarding brainrot gets to the point peeps are sustained completely on argument from belief/ignorance instead actually researching and enjoying the verse they're wanking supporting.
 
AwkguyDB said:
Two things

1. Goku was already miles ahead of Vegeta in the Cell Saga.

2. That Otherworld training be some serious stuff, and plus without the limitations of a living body Goku was able to achieve things like SSJ3
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Funny cause I feel like once a saiyan unlocks SSJ, their base gets an increase as well. Kind of make sense since Vegeta during Android saga surpassed Goku and yeah when Goku was in other world him unlocking SSJ3 must had been the reason why the base form gap was big even though Vegeta was also training nonstop
 
SSJGeminiJJ said:
The usage of "Genki" in Genkidama isn't supposed to be taken so literally to the point of distinguishing it as it's own kind of energy, the alternate term's just used here and there either to give the technique it's own name instead of generically calling it Ki Sphere. It has numerous statements of the energy it draws on being just Ki.
Click to expand...
It’s it’s own kind of energy as it demonstrably doesn’t give a shit about scaling, it doesn’t draw from the same pool of energy where battle power is derived from otherwise it wouldn’t have helped vs Zamasu and Gohans contribution to it during the Buu saga would have given it more than enough power to kill Buu.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Because Beat's World isn't Real World
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The argument on the composite page was that Goku beat Demigra, who transcended the entire multiverse and went to the Real World which is above the DBH multiverse and views it as fiction. I don't know much about DBH or its cosmology. Is the argument denied because the "real world" Demigra went to wasn't the actual "real world"?
 
Spilxson2 said:
The argument on the composite page was that Goku beat Demigra, who transcended the entire multiverse and went to the Real World which is above the DBH multiverse and views it as fiction. I don't know much about DBH or its cosmology. Is the argument denied because the "real world" Demigra went to wasn't the actual "real world"?
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That was Demigra transcend space-time, reaching to Beat's World, which many think that world is Real World because in that world there is a DBH machine, and Beat play the "game" with that machine
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
It’s being used as a lowball multiplier similar to SSJB being 50x above SSJG

A character appearing to have increased their power by more than tens of time doesn’t mean that that’s the formula of the fusion

That just means Pre Ritual Goku x Pre ritual vegeta = multiplier less than ssjg
and Kale x Caulifla = Multiplier above SSJG
I don’t see anything contradictory considering goku kinda absorbed the multiplier into base too
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Its mathematically impossible for Fusion to be an A*B affair and have characters only percieve an increase of just 10s of times over their previous peak in power ( not even hundreds )

If Base Goku is 250,000 and he goes SSG hed
be 250,000^2

If fusion is meant to be A*B in the case of Kefla where both girls are roughly comparable to Goku themselves they would too become around 250,000^2 so hundred thousand times stronger than both, a far cry from the 10s of times vados stated, even if you want to go with the route of the statement meaning to compare base Kefla to their SS2 levels she is still hundreds of times more powerful than either girl individually making 10s of times increase inconsistent again.

If the formula for fusion is A*B it becomes mathematically impossible for Goku to ever match that level of power with static multipliers we interpret Super Saiyan forms to be, specially considering that during the ToP he is at bare minimum 500x times stronger than his post BoG base.

Base Goku = 125,000,000
Kefla (A*B) 125,000,000*125,000,000
SSG Goku 125,000,000 * 250,000
SSB Goku 125,000,000 *12,500,000
SSB KK10 125,000,000^125,000,000

So through very very conservative ( really Goku during the ToP is probably closer to 2,500,000x stronger than his post BoG base) scaling we arrive at a scenario where base Kefla could handle SSBKK10 which immediately contradicts the fact she had to go Super Saiyan to match that level in the actual fight.

Those issues only become more egregious the higher you scale base Goku compared to his initial SSG, and it’s going to be everpresent as Base Goku will always outscale his initial SSG.
 
Last edited:
AguilaR202 said:
Its mathematically impossible for Fusion to be an A*B affair and have characters only percieve an increase of just 10s of times over their previous peak in power ( not even hundreds )

If Base Goku is 250,000 and he goes SSG hed
be 250,000^2

If fusion is meant to be A*B in the case of Kefla where both girls are roughly comparable to Goku themselves they would too become around 250,000^2 so hundred thousand times stronger than both, a far cry from the 10s of times vados stated, even if you want to go with the route of the statement meaning to compare base Kefla to their SS2 levels she is still hundreds of times more powerful than either girl individually making 10s of times increase inconsistent again.

If the formula for fusion is A*B it becomes mathematically impossible for Goku to ever match that level of power with static multipliers we interpret Super Saiyan forms to be, specially considering that during the ToP he is at bare minimum 500x times stronger than his post BoG base.

Base Goku = 125,000,000
Kefla (A*B) 125,000,000*125,000,000
SSG Goku 125,000,000 * 250,000
SSB Goku 125,000,000 *12,500,000
SSB KK10 125,000,000^125,000,000

So through very very conservative ( really Goku during the ToP is probably closer to 2,500,000x stronger than his post BoG base) scaling we arrive at a scenario where base Kefla could handle SSBKK10 which immediately contradicts the fact she had to go Super Saiyan to match that level in the actual fight.

Those issues only become more egregious the higher you scale base Goku compared to his initial SSG, and it’s going to be everpresent as Base Goku will always outscale his initial SSG.
Click to expand...
10’s of time can literally be any number but most people would assume it’s under 100x and it can’t be but that also doesnt mean that’s the formula its just a vague statement that doesn’t help with much but 10’s of time can be the seemingly increase they got but 10’s of times can literally be any number

Also we’re not even giving fusion a multiplier we just know Base Goku -> SSJG increase is above Base Goku -> Vegito SSJ3 increase

So it comes from our accepted multipliers as a lowball similar to SSJB
 
I thought to analyze and revamp Dragon Ball's discussion rules: vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=4654515&oldid=4648405
  • Do not ask why we placed Buu saga DBZ characters in the same tier as Super Perfect Cell. The upper border of this tier is roughly a trillion times higher than the bottom, so an upgrade through mere powerscaling alone is impossible. The question was asked at vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-discussion-thread-14.60150/page-3,
Click to expand...
The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/why-everyone-in-the-buu-saga-is-rank-to-only-ss-level.37561/, and the rule applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=466434&oldid=456046. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.
  • Do not make threads about Skinny Buu not being scaled to Goku. After his fight with Basil, he fought against a casual suppressed Goku, but he quickly lost this form and started to sleep again. All of this points to a gag routine and not serious feats.
Click to expand...
The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-revision-thread-z.99422/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/majin-buu-and-basil-pages.103084/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1611345&oldid=1605617 and https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1743212&oldid=1691902. I'll be linking the first thread in my rewrite.
  • Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before, like in this thread.
Click to expand...
THe rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/possible-dbs-base-super-saiyan-forms-scaling-change.151925/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/dbs-non-god-form-downgrade.153646/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=7999441&oldid=7999431. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

How do you guys feel about me rewording the discussion rules to read like this?
*Do not attempt to upgrade characters in the Buu saga above 4-B based on them massively upscaling from [[Cell (Dragon Ball)|Super Perfect Cell]], as 4-B is an extremely broad tier with an upper border nearly a trillion times greater than its baseline, making an upgrade to a higher tier through mere powerscaling [[vsforum:threads/37561|infeasible]].
*Do not attempt to scale [[Majin Buu|Skinny Buu]] to Goku; after his fight with [[Basil (Dragon Ball)|Basil]], he fought against a casual, suppressed Goku but quickly lost this form and started to sleep again, marking this incident as a gag routine [[vsforum:threads/99422|considered]] an outlier.
*Do not attempt to downgrade Goku from 2-C with the argument that he that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God; it's [[User blog:AKM sama/Dragon Ball Super: Battle of Gods|made clear]] he did, and downgrade attempts have been [[vsforum:threads/151925|repeatedly]] [[vsforum:threads/153646|rejected]].
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I thought to analyze and revamp Dragon Ball's discussion rules: vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=4654515&oldid=4648405

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/why-everyone-in-the-buu-saga-is-rank-to-only-ss-level.37561/, and the rule applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=466434&oldid=456046. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-revision-thread-z.99422/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/majin-buu-and-basil-pages.103084/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1611345&oldid=1605617 and https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1743212&oldid=1691902. I'll be linking the first thread in my rewrite.

THe rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/possible-dbs-base-super-saiyan-forms-scaling-change.151925/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/dbs-non-god-form-downgrade.153646/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=7999441&oldid=7999431. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

How do you guys feel about me rewording the discussion rules to read like this?
Click to expand...
Seems fine.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I thought to analyze and revamp Dragon Ball's discussion rules: vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=4654515&oldid=4648405

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/why-everyone-in-the-buu-saga-is-rank-to-only-ss-level.37561/, and the rule applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=466434&oldid=456046. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-revision-thread-z.99422/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/majin-buu-and-basil-pages.103084/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1611345&oldid=1605617 and https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1743212&oldid=1691902. I'll be linking the first thread in my rewrite.

THe rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/possible-dbs-base-super-saiyan-forms-scaling-change.151925/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/dbs-non-god-form-downgrade.153646/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=7999441&oldid=7999431. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

How do you guys feel about me rewording the discussion rules to read like this?
Click to expand...
Looks fine. So go ahead
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
I thought to analyze and revamp Dragon Ball's discussion rules: vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=4654515&oldid=4648405

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/why-everyone-in-the-buu-saga-is-rank-to-only-ss-level.37561/, and the rule applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=466434&oldid=456046. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

The rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/dragon-ball-super-revision-thread-z.99422/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/majin-buu-and-basil-pages.103084/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1611345&oldid=1605617 and https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=1743212&oldid=1691902. I'll be linking the first thread in my rewrite.

THe rule was agreed on at https://vsbattles.com/threads/possible-dbs-base-super-saiyan-forms-scaling-change.151925/ and https://vsbattles.com/threads/dbs-non-god-form-downgrade.153646/ and applied at https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules?type=revision&diff=7999441&oldid=7999431. I'll be linking the second thread in my rewrite.

How do you guys feel about me rewording the discussion rules to read like this?
Click to expand...
It turned out cool, man! Could you help with some threads that are in progress to be completed? We kind of want to wrap them all up before creating another one.
 
AwkguyDB said:
Alrighty the SSJG multiplier has been basically accepted now we just need the scaling and speed chains and a Accepted Multiplier blog on the page would be well appreciated I will see if there's anything for SSJ3 and UIO/MUI in the meantime
Click to expand...
UI is already SSB*SSB which is even bigger now

I don't think you'll be getting much for SS3
 
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