DBS Non-God Form Downgrade

[Veronica]

Currently Goku's base and regular SSJ forms are treated as more powerful than BoG SSG form, but this is based on a misreading and neglecting key statements on what SSG did.

First: Beerus states that Goku made SSG Power his own like a burning flame. Which implies that SSG is like a fuel that massively powers all his forms to a new level.

Second: Whis states that Goku wouldn't able to defeat Beerus. That makes no sense if Goku's SSJ form surpassed SSG. Unless you think Whis didn't notice it while he watched the entire fight and is able to sense God Ki and Goku didn't even have God Ki so.

Third: Base Goku struggled against Buu, SSJ Gohan who was weaker than he was in the Buu Saga, Piccolo did fought Final Frost while base Goku struggled to fight Third Form Frost.

There are some counter arguments such as SSJ2 Goku being stated to rival a God of Destruction, base Vegeta easily defeated SSJ3 Gotenks and base Goku fighting Beerus, but two of them are filler.

So I suggest scaling the SSJ forms to above Buu Saga Level like tier 4-B but far higher into baseline.

This is a quick post. I might do later indepht with scans at all.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Isn't this a repeat of an already rejected thread using the exact same arguments?

Edit: Added tags

 

[Veronica]

Isn't this a repeat of an already rejected thread using the exact same arguments?

Edit: Added tags

Why was it rejected?

 

[LordTracer]

Oh joy, a CRT that doesn’t have a single scan.

Isn't this a repeat of an already rejected thread using the exact same arguments?

I feel like we should have a discussion rule about this.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Oh joy, a CRT that doesn’t have a single scan.

I feel like we should have a discussion rule about this.

I normally hate discussion rules, but I think this case is warranted.

 

[Veronica]

I normally hate discussion rules, but I think this case is warranted.

What about the evidence against it such as SSB being the only form called "A SSJ form with the power of SSG". If Goku is already did with regular SSJ in RoF?

 

[LordTracer]

I normally hate discussion rules, but I think this case is warranted.

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before, like in this thread.”

How does this look?

 

[Veronica]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before.”

How does this look?

It doesn't address the contradiction found in RoF

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before.”

How does this look?

Here's a thread where it was discussed, to add an example

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before.”

How does this look?

This is happening a lot Medeus wanted to create a rule about this, I recommend closing and creating an enforced rule about this.

We already had this discussion hundreds of times, but Goku getting an automatic Zenkai mid fight against Beerus to the point where his base form was just as strong as his SSG form that shook Universe 7 was mere seconds ago had a pretty blunt face value statement in the Anime. Then he SSJ form multiplied afterward, with his return to SSG form far surpassing that. There should indeed be a discussion rule about that

 

[LordTracer]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before, like in this thread.”

@DarkDragonMedeus @CloverDragon03 @Maverick_Zero_X Do y’all think this discussion rule looks good?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Looks good, though I’m surprised that’s still in contention.

 

[Veronica]

Looks good, though I’m surprised that’s still in contention.

Because it got retconned as shown numerous times such as: Buu struggling against Basil and base Goku struggling against Buu, Gohan who was weaker than he was in the Buu Saga, base Goku struggling against Third Form Frost, base Goku struggling against the dog trio in ToP etc

 

[SlendVeny]

What about the evidence against it such as SSB being the only form called "A SSJ form with the power of SSG". If Goku is already did with regular SSJ in RoF?

That refers to the SSG transformation combining with SSJ, not the original SSG ritual

 

[SlendVeny]

Because it got retconned as shown numerous times such as: Buu struggling against Basil and base Goku struggling against Buu, Gohan who was weaker than he was in the Buu Saga, base Goku struggling against Third Form Frost, base Goku struggling against the dog trio in ToP etc

Buu is stronger than he was in the Buu Saga. Same with Gohan.

 

[KLOL506]

Oh joy, a CRT that doesn’t have a single scan.

I feel like we should have a discussion rule about this.

We do already, don't we?

@DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama Can you kindly check?

 

[LordTracer]

We do already, don't we?

We don’t, I already checked.

 

[KLOL506]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before, like in this thread.”

How does this look?

This is perfect.

 

[KLOL506]

We don’t, I already checked.

I guess you can add all the other links mentioned by Lephyr and co. for the justifications.

 

[CloverDragon03]

“Please do not make threads trying to downgrade base Goku from 2-C with the claim that he didn’t maintain the power of Super Saiyan God. It is made very clear that he did, as outlined in this blog, and downgrade attempts have been discussed and rejected numerous times before, like in this thread.”

How does this look?

People are still trying to make this downgrade?

Anyways, this looks good

 

[KLOL506]

People are still trying to make this downgrade?

YES.

 

[CloverDragon03]

YES.

HELL

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Because it got retconned as shown numerous times such as: Buu struggling against Basil and base Goku struggling against Buu, Gohan who was weaker than he was in the Buu Saga, base Goku struggling against Third Form Frost, base Goku struggling against the dog trio in ToP etc

It wasn’t retconned even in the DBS anime during the fight in battle of god the others couldn’t sense him when he was in SSJG but when he went into Ssj and absorbed the POWER they could sense him so that ssj form having god ki is something we have no proof for you need to prove it’s a retcon when the show itself never claims this there’s no way it got retconned before it even took affect this happens even in RoF when Goku’s in base they can sense his ki but when he goes into SSJB they assume he went SSJG because they can’t sense his ki these arguments have been refuted countlessly and you’d have to address them being able to somehow sense them having god ki in their Ssj and base forms when there’s no proof for it he merely absorbed the power

 

[Shadyboi0]

Yeah, no. Disagree

 

[Veronica]

Yeah, no. Disagree

There is no denying that it got retconned during RoF

 

[KLOL506]

Cope

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Goku doesn't have God Ki in base form, that wasn't stated anywhere. And we're shown otherwise In multiple occasions as Ice said.

Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

There is no denying that it got retconned during RoF

Did you not read my arguments at all? I addressed RoF

It wasn’t retconned even in the DBS anime during the fight in battle of god the others couldn’t sense him when he was in SSJG but when he went into Ssj and absorbed the POWER they could sense him so that ssj form having god ki is something we have no proof for you need to prove it’s a retcon when the show itself never claims this there’s no way it got retconned before it even took affect this happens even in RoF when Goku’s in base they can sense his ki but when he goes into SSJB they assume he went SSJG because they can’t sense his ki these arguments have been refuted countlessly and you’d have to address them being able to somehow sense them having god ki in their Ssj and base forms when there’s no proof for it he merely absorbed the power

 

[Shadyboi0]

There is no denying that it got retconned during RoF

Nah, its consistent. He's stronger in rof then in bog, unless stated by the narrator, its not. God isn't an infinite multiplier, even if it was, he'd still be 2-C

 

[Veronica]

Nah, its consistent. He's stronger in rof then in bog, unless stated by the narrator, its not. God isn't an infinite multiplier, even if it was, he'd still be 2-C

Only SSB transformation is called "a SSJ form of the power of SSG".

 

[CloverDragon03]

There is no denying that it got retconned during RoF

Most of us are denying it though...

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

Only SSB transformation is called "a SSJ form of the power of SSG".

That's the movie. AKA, non canon.

 

[CloverDragon03]

That's the movie. AKA, non canon.

RoF is canon tho...

 

[Shadyboi0]

Only SSB transformation is called "a SSJ form of the power of SSG".

Hence the name, SSGSS. That means the same strength of god x 50, not bog ssg

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

RoF is canon tho...

The RoF Movie isn't canon. That's merely an adaptation.

 

[Shadyboi0]

RoF is canon tho...

The movie aint, the arc in super is

 

[KLOL506]

There's two RoF.

One is the movie. The other is the anime itself. Movie is non-canon. Anime is canon.

 

[Ottavio_Merluzzo]

KLOL your pfp , i just noticed it

 

[Shadyboi0]

The ssg in base thing is so blatant, it punched me in the face

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Only SSB transformation is called "a SSJ form of the power of SSG".

Yeah SSJB is SSJG + SSJ and they could sense him when he was in base and couldnt sense him when he turned Ssjb SSJ form doesn’t conceal your Ki signature