DMC Downgrade #2: Hax Edition

[Firephoenixearl]

Scans

Vergil and Dante regenerating from their own attacks

He was absorbed inside the Savior and than was melted the novel made pretty clear what happen to him

The same guy that couldn't heal an arm that was ripped off by sheer force, not even an attacks. Yes sounds fair. A single word vs Nero's whole character

Bad argument and even kid Vergil has feats of regeneration without his regen being affected and the same against Mundus

>Regeneration without his regen being affected
....uhh...what?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then give us the TL;DR of the arguments of both sides, then we can come to a conclusion. Does that sound fair?

I mean i'd have to read everything from the beginning to make sure i don't miss anything and write it all down. Come on, it's not even that long of a read.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Vergil and Dante regenerating from their own attacks

Resistance to regeneration negation

The same guy that couldn't heal an arm that was ripped off by sheer force, not even an attacks. Yes sounds fair. A single word vs Nero's whole character

Here another statement that Nero had being melted

>Regeneration without his regen being affected
....uhh...what?

Kid Vergil regen don't get slower when he was impaled by the demons and the same happen again Mundus

 

[Theglassman12]

Can anyone here give me the TL;DR of the points on each side?

 

[EFÍTÉ]

The same guy that couldn't heal an arm that was ripped off by sheer force, not even an attacks. Yes sounds fair. A single word vs Nero's whole character

So we still going to ignore the moment Yamato went near Nero, he regenerates and can go DT ? And the fact Nero without Devil arm/yamato his dead weight ?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Resistance to regeneration negation

Well y'all argued that when they cannot regenerate from the attacks it's regeneration negation. So let me get this straight.
Dante, Vergil and Sparda have regen negation because of the beowulf feat (who has never shown regen).
Dante and Vergil have resistance to Regeneration Negation because they can regenerate from their own attacks
Then Dante and Vergil in the last fight said they were gonna finish it and Nero regenerated the arm that was riped off by Vergil. So these 3 have "Resistance to Regeneration Negation Negation"?
BHAHAHAHAHA, the layers. The layers are incredible.

Here another statement that Nero had being melted

Again, that single line there defies the whole point of Nero, that he is incapable of regeneration because he has not awakened his demon form. Which is the reason he was killed by the knights in DMC4 even though a normal devil wouldn't have died to those. Why he was unable to regenerate his arm in DMC5. Again you are taking 2 random quotes and putting them above the entire lore/events that happen in both games he was in.

Kid Vergil regen don't get slower when he was impaled by the demons and the same happen again Mundus

You quoted me saying "their clothes not getting ripped of is a game designer choice" though. What did that have to do with whatever you're arguing.

 

[TFSCell]

Can anyone here give me the TL;DR of the points on each side?

I think every point is currently being debated. Currently, everyone is focusing on the regeneration negation.

Also, if Nero needs the Yamato to regenerate as it activates his latent power, then it wouldn’t make sense for him to be able to regenerate a missing limb without it. The scans make sense regarding the context.

 

[Theglassman12]

ok looking through the points I'm gonna have to agree with Dante here. Demons having regeneration is kind of a thing a lot of them share. the golems in DMC 2 have it, the Frost demons have it, and many others have it. Dante and vergil being able to kill them and having their regen not work doesn't sound out of left field when this is consistent in the games.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Theglassman12 Ok but that is inconsistent with a lot of demons, namely someone like beowulf did you read what i said:

Well y'all argued that when they cannot regenerate from the attacks it's regeneration negation. So let me get this straight.
Dante, Vergil and Sparda have regen negation because of the beowulf feat (who has never shown regen).
Dante and Vergil have resistance to Regeneration Negation because they can regenerate from their own attacks
Then Dante and Vergil in the last fight said they were gonna finish it and Nero regenerated the arm that was riped off by Vergil. So these 3 have "Resistance to Regeneration Negation Negation"?
BHAHAHAHAHA, the layers. The layers are incredible.

These are the kind of layers of hax you'd have to give everyone for it to make sense otherwise, whereas otherwise you'd just have to remove regen from certain demons that clearly....have no regen. Hell even the saviour was incapable of regen. It had its face crushed by Nero and it could not regen, just his face. And the saviour is created from tons of people, it's even stronger than DMC3 Dante and Vergil, so by the logic of AP its regen would scale way beyond them. Credo couldn't regen. The phantom couldn't regen, it wasn't even killed by anyone, it just got impaled by a statued and died. Regeneration negation for the statue FRA.

And secondly that the regen of the people with really good regen like Dante or Vergil can be taxed considering there are several scenes where they are clearly wounded, but only at the end of a fight.

 

[Theglassman12]

Dude, your example is one demon, out of the other numerous demons with said regen.

If the regen was taxed, then how did Vergil not get immediately bisected in the end of 3? He was clearly exhausted at the end of the fight and we literally see a big money shot of Dante cutting through vergil at the end of the fight with a giant sword through his body.

 

[Sevil Natas]

He isn't nullifying type 5, he's able to interact and kill those with NEP, and I still see no proof of NEP ever granting type 5 by default. Being non existent shouldn't make you exempt from the concepts of life and death.

5: Deathless Immortality: Characters who exist unbound by conventional life or death, or do not exist at all, and thus cannot be traditionally killed

the immortality page disagrees with you, also pretty sure it does make you exempt. if you dont exist at all you will be neither alive nor dead

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dude, your example is one demon, out of the other numerous demons with said regen.

If the regen was taxed, then how did Vergil not get immediately bisected in the end of 3? He was clearly exhausted at the end of the fight and we literally see a big money shot of Dante cutting through vergil at the end of the fight with a giant sword through his body.

One demon? Isn't that what im saying though? That there are several demons (like Beowulf), being incapable of regeneration.

That's a different scene. First of all, we do not know how taxed their regen was. Second of all he was "tired" is a case of stamina, not regen. I am not necessarily implying a connection between the 2. Third of all the cases im giving are the 2nd fight in DMC3 and vergil's appearance in DMC5. Both cases that i have explained why "we do not see wounds" is not an argument as there are cases where the characters bleed but we do not see wounds on their bodies.

And your "one demon" statement is pretty bad, did you even read the kind of stuff it would give everybody? Oh and that kind of negation to resistance to negation again to another resistance can be done several more times. Just because the argument of "you can't regen from their attacks" just doesn't work cus we know regeneration from their attacks is possible.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

One demon? Isn't that what im saying though? That there are several demons (like Beowulf), being incapable of regeneration.

Lore says they regen, the lack of feats can be easily solved with: Regen neg and Dante/Vergil oneshoting (thanks to yamato). Which Vergil actually does against Beowulf.
By scalling Beowulf would be near Mid regen or little lower, but still enought to regen a eye (Thanks to Demon physiology and comparable power, even argosax does a similar/comparable regen feat, with scalling he is above Sid).
Of course there is some demons who have better regen than what is common for low tier demons, and we just scale it to demon that are more powerful (unless some crazy proof appear with Vergil DLC, allowing us to scale to low tier demons).

I do understand why you arguing their regen can be taxed thanks to Arkham statement (if i not mistaken you arguing because of them being tired right ?), but lets accept it, there feats that goes against this, like vergil not being bisected in the end of 3, Dante regenerating from yamato stab (the game shows the wound at one scene and in the other scene we see it healed), both on those situations are extreme tired. Complete demons as never showed to get tired in any source in the series, so their regen cant be related to stamina, but they did show sometimes demons becoming weaker when demonic energy starts to go low.
I believe Dante_demon_killa showed scans of that happening on novel vol2 with a demon earlier in the novel (if he didnt show and i just being crazy, i can post later, with other exemples).
I likely inclined with their regen can slower on speed because of demonic energy getting lower than just stamina shenanigans. This makes more sense with all regen feats (even with regen being slower, like vergil in DMC5 saying to dante heal his wounds and get stronger).

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I will get to all your points later Efite, but i just wanna say, i said "regen being taxed" and "stamina" are not linked".

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I see the story will just repeat itself

"It foccused its little remaining magic into a broken (broken) claw (which was broken), raising it high (said broken claw) for a killing blow (with a claw that was broken)"

It's obvious it healed the claw for one final attack, but of course you'll ignore this

Scan

Their demonic power is related to their regeneration and also needs to be foccused, in case you wonder why sometimes some demons take their time. Now of course you keep saying Beowulf doesn't have regeneration besides we showing scans of power being related, to demon physiology being related, and the fact that the only people who fough him have feats of negating regeneration, because you need this to prove you main point: Dante not having Regen Negation against Sid

The problem is, to avoid that you need to nuke multiple stuff

- First the scalling in regeneration, with scans showing physiology and power being related

Physiology

Power

- Then some demons need to lose their regen because they were killed by Dante/Vergil, and again you choose to ignore the scans and brace yourself on a single quote, which goes against alllll the feats of regen from multiple demons and their relation with body and power

Scan 1

Scan 2

- Then they need to have their regen nerfed via stamina when we have scans with tired characters having impressive healing feats even when tired and the fact that receiving and inflicting pain powers them

Scan 1

Scan 2

Scan 3

Pain Empowerment

@Sir_Ovens those are the main points, and the scans I'm using to say otherwise

"Where did i mention griffin in that quote....?"

Hell, if i really wanted to i could argue to you that Dante being in a coma for a month in DMC5 is actually proof of that, since because of how knockouts work. There is Griffon being amazed at the fact that Dante is still alive even though Urizen has nothing to actually put down someone with that level of regen. Griffon being afraid that V was gonna kill dante by stabbing his head. Vergil and Dante stating that they were gonna "finish it" before being stopped by Nero, despite vergil having nothing that would put Dante down for good if the regen worked at 100% all the time. Etc etc etc.

You forgot your own post ? The fact that I only quoted part of your sentence shouldn't be enough to you do that but you keep surprising me

Griffon is also a demon and would know that. And you are misunderstanding that entire scene to use it as an argument. Griffon was freaking out cus the guy was stabbing himself before fighting Urizen, he needs to gain power at that moment not stab himself for no reason, which is what griffon even says, that they have to deal with urizen first then "making the you can kill yourself later" joke. So you taking scenes i never even mentioned shows your desperation at being unable to give answers to these. Considering as i said Griffon being a pretty strong demon and would obviously know that people of Dante's caliber wouldn't die from that.

A big post talking about...what exactly ? Griffon even asks if Dante lost his mind, was freaking out by a stab, now sure other interpretations are valid, but Griffon's mistake is something common in the game, V stabbing Dante in the face for example, Griffon was worried, yet Dante survived some brain damage before, not only him, but multiple other far weaker demons, weaker than Griffon btw, when we already have proof of why they scale, that's why using these plot moments isn't valid in a VS Hax Scalling debate, not when it goes against something that basic in the series, unless you wanna say Dante was indeed in danger by a stab, what I honestly don't doubt at this point.

Also Devil Sword Sparda is known in the verse to be the strongest sword thanks to Sparda's hype legend, being seen by the characters as something relevant is expected, Nico for example, believes only with SDT Dante surpassed his father, however he already had better feats long ago, V even after seeing Urizen's power was planning on giving Nero the Sword to fight the King, he wasn't there when Dante with DSS still got stomped. Also, it has way more power than Rebellion and Yamato, DSS was able to make Dante fight Mundus while Vergil with Yamato didn't stood a chance

Yeah....never on themselves. All that "negged regen before" was never used on a character we have seen clearly regen mid fight, like themselves. And any form of damage is only left for the very end of a fight, after taking dozens if not hundreds of blows they would have to regenerate from. Curious indeed.

> Never on themselves

> They showed multiple times in the franchise

"was never used on a character we have seen clearly regen mid fight", an argument that ignores, of course, their Physiology, their Power, and their feats, gotta question that logic again again again

Clothes not being ripped is just a game choice, you wouldn't want to see Dante and Vergil naked by the end of the fight would you?

Well, about that ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

And yeah that's exactly what I said, it's a game choice besides 3, where they gave some attention to Dante's coat

The ground was clean before he fell, so there was no previous blood there

He is covered in blood + the blood he lost, he fells to the ground, blood appears in the ground, I know it could be a wound, but considering, you know, their Physiology, their Power, their feats when okay and their feats when tired, I'll go with the obvious choice

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I see the story will just repeat itself

"It foccused its little remaining magic into a broken (broken) claw (which was broken), raising it high (said broken claw) for a killing blow (with a claw that was broken)"

It's obvious it healed the claw for one final attack, but of course you'll ignore this

Scan

I have no idea what level of headcanon you used to get the "he attacked with a broken claw means he regenerated it", but it's gotta be over 9000 for sure. You can attack with a broken claw, sword, weapon just fine. Not really a reason to say "it healed" that is absolute headcanon.

Their demonic power is related to their regeneration and also needs to be foccused, in case you wonder why sometimes some demons take their time.

Headcanon....stated or shown absolutely nowhere. Both the fact that demonic power is related to regen and that it needs to be focused. Not to mention that it's a wrong headcanon cus it means that brain destruction would be fatal, because they'd be unable to control their demonic power in that state.

Now of course you keep saying Beowulf doesn't have regeneration besides we showing scans of power being related, to demon physiology being related, and the fact that the only people who fough him have feats of negating regeneration, because you need this to prove you main point: Dante not having Regen Negation against Sid

Dante has feats of regeneration negation? That's wrong. Dante has never fought a dude who can clearly regenerate and negate his regenerating capability with the only somewhat of an exception being Urizen which as i've proved "it's after a fight so their regen gets weaker".

The problem is, to avoid that you need to nuke multiple stuff

- First the scalling in regeneration, with scans showing physiology and power being related

Physiology

Power

That physiology scan says that "no matter how much demon blood you have a heart cut will kill you", which is flat untrue cus we've seen Dante regenerate from it. But should we take that same statement as gospel too now? And there is not a statement anywhere about there not being demons incapable of regeneration. If a statement says "no matter how good of a human you are you will not outswim a motorboat", doesn't mean that there aren't humans who can't swim just because that line implied that being human is related to the ability to swim.

As for power again, it is nowhere stated that magic has anything to do with the regeneration, you can attack with a broken claw. Raw headcanon.

- Then some demons need to lose their regen because they were killed by Dante/Vergil, and again you choose to ignore the scans and brace yourself on a single quote, which goes against alllll the feats of regen from multiple demons and their relation with body and power

Scan 1

Scan 2

Ah lovely. First of all those scans show 2 random demons that are capable of regen, not all demons can regen.

Second of all, it's absolutely lovely how you argue against "regen gets weaker if hit enough times" but that first scan outright says "shoot it until it's vitality is depleted or it will regen", kek.

And lastly, lovely how you argue for regen negation for Dante, when those random golems there can actually regen from Dante's attacks as stated in the quote itself. The only way for them not to regen from Dante's attacks is if he shoots them enough times....curious ain't it? It's almost as if it's saying that they can't regenerate infinitely and that there is actually a limit.

- Then they need to have their regen nerfed via stamina when we have scans with tired characters having impressive healing feats even when tired and the fact that receiving and inflicting pain powers them

Scan 1

Scan 2

Scan 3

Pain Empowerment

Tired doesn't mean their regen gets weaker. It's getting lots of constant damage that weakens their regen. Physically tired has nothing to do with it.

And what the hell is Pain Empowerment supposed to argue for? Yes Dante can replenish his DT if he hits or gets hit....so what?

You forgot your own post ? The fact that I only quoted part of your sentence shouldn't be enough to you do that but you keep surprising me

I mean...you quote one line and answer another.......yeah sounds fair, whatever you say.

And yeah that's exactly what I said, it's a game choice besides 3, where they gave some attention to Dante's coat

And that defeats my point how?

He is covered in blood + the blood he lost, he fells to the ground, blood appears in the ground, I know it could be a wound, but considering, you know, their Physiology, their Power, their feats when okay and their feats when tired, I'll go with the obvious choice

He is not covered in blood. His entire chest area is clear.
The blood he lost was behind him and if he had tainted the ground with the blood he lost it would have been there before he fell, the ground was clean.
So what's the obvious choice, both of what you said make no sense as they're directly shown not to be the case.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

I have no idea what level of headcanon you used to get the "he attacked with a broken claw means he regenerated it", but it's gotta be over 9000 for sure. You can attack with a broken claw, sword, weapon just fine. Not really a reason to say "it healed" that is absolute headcanon.

For some reason dante forgot to show the next scan i will post just give me a minute

 

[Mister6ame6]

Well y'all argued that when they cannot regenerate from the attacks it's regeneration negation. So let me get this straight.
Dante, Vergil and Sparda have regen negation because of the beowulf feat (who has never shown regen).
Dante and Vergil have resistance to Regeneration Negation because they can regenerate from their own attacks
Then Dante and Vergil in the last fight said they were gonna finish it and Nero regenerated the arm that was riped off by Vergil. So these 3 have "Resistance to Regeneration Negation Negation"?
BHAHAHAHAHA, the layers. The layers are incredible.

One statement that is contracted by a lot of feats in the series posted in this thread

Again, that single line there defies the whole point of Nero, that he is incapable of regeneration because he has not awakened his demon form. Which is the reason he was killed by the knights in DMC4 even though a normal devil wouldn't have died to those. Why he was unable to regenerate his arm in DMC5. Again you are taking 2 random quotes and putting them above the entire lore/events that happen in both games he was in.

The scan is clear that he was melted and regenerated and Yamato did give Nero new demonic powers, so i fall to see you logic here

You quoted me saying "their clothes not getting ripped of is a game designer choice" though. What did that have to do with whatever you're arguing.

You argument that we not seeing they wounds is because game designer choice i showed to you that even as kid, Vergil regen was not taxed in the slightest

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You argument that we not seeing they wounds is because game designer choice i showed to you that even as kid, Vergil regen was not taxed in the slightest

Easily debunkable by "he needs to receive more continuous damage than that".

 

[Mister6ame6]

Easily debunkable by "he needs to receive more continuous damage than that".

Still waiting your scans for that and you did not responded about Vergil vs Mundus that i posted earlier

 

[Sevil Natas]

Second of all, it's absolutely lovely how you argue against "regen gets weaker if hit enough times" but that first scan outright says "shoot it until it's vitality is depleted or it will regen", kek.

And lastly, lovely how you argue for regen negation for Dante, when those random golems there can actually regen from Dante's attacks as stated in the quote itself. The only way for them not to regen from Dante's attacks is if he shoots them enough times....curious ain't it? It's almost as if it's saying that they can't regenerate infinitely and that there is actually a limit.

no. that scan says you need to overwhelm its mid (or high-mid?) regen not hit it enough times. you can hit it as much as you want but if you dont finish it, it will regen.

He is not covered in blood. His entire chest area is clear.
The blood he lost was behind him and if he had tainted the ground with the blood he lost it would have been there before he fell, the ground was clean.
So what's the obvious choice, both of what you said make no sense as they're directly shown not to be the case.

no? why would it be on the floor before he fell? that doesnt even make any sense. most likely it would have been on his coat and when he fell it started to leak out.

also pretty sure that "battle" with sid lasted like 30 seconds it was more of an AP 1 shot than a battle. some DMC fights lasted way longer & ppl could still regen.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Earlier, on the novel, Berly fights the same demon and the demon regenerates, when Dante manages to defeate the demon who is powerless, he reunites her head and remains from her body, but Berly interrupts and after some talk with dante, the demon escapes.

And what the hell is Pain Empowerment supposed to argue for? Yes Dante can replenish his DT if he hits or gets hit....so what?

Demons and hybrids gains demonic power by dealing pain and recieving pain, which would still allow their regeneration being faster.

Even Dante himself states if he ever lost demonic power/magic he turns basically into a human, Berlys enchanted bullets is capable of absorving and destroying demonic energy/magic, we know Dante is powerless if he ever lose demonic energy because of this.
Dante as trapped into a gel capable of powernulling demonic/magic and dante himself states he as powerless.

At this point someone could shot Dante in the head and he would die.

Easily debunkable by "he needs to receive more continuous damage than that".

Kid Vergil is at death's door and his regen isnt impressive, the moment he encounters yamato and gets his inner demon unlocked, he kills the demons and goes into the house and leaves like nothing happened to him.

I would ignore this image, because isnt coerent with the other pages where Vergil is at death's door, barely moving.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

By the way, Earl did you ask something about dante fighting someone who can neg his regen ?

 

[Sevil Natas]

That physiology scan says that "no matter how much demon blood you have a heart cut will kill you", which is flat untrue cus we've seen Dante regenerate from it. But should we take that same statement as gospel too now? And there is not a statement anywhere about there not being demons incapable of regeneration. If a statement says "no matter how good of a human you are you will not outswim a motorboat", doesn't mean that there aren't humans who can't swim just because that line implied that being human is related to the ability to swim.

another thing. the scan implies that demon blood gives regen by default "if i cut this out, You wont Recover, no matter how much demon blood you have" which is consistently shown to be the case.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I'm back, and from what I see you are dismissing scans "just because"

This will be my last post, next week I have the ******* extra and I hate it, so i won't be active.

You missed the point? He was killed by Mundus, he was continuously attacked by Mundus until nothing was left, otherwise he would have stayed there as Dante didn’t want to kill him

As proven above, below, in other threads Dante has some soul hax, did you see Griffon who was impaled and cut in half and still was there? This guy (phantom) is the same thing as him, do you really thing he would have died just because of that?

> i can easily say that the anime or novel examples is just "we don't know what happened to them they can easily have evaporated later/offscreen"

Post some proof of that then, because it is never mentioned that their bodies disappear and never do we see something like Gilver death bar 5, or how he is again the only one with such a detailed and explained cause of death that none of the other novels or mangas use.

> Considering how every game shows demons dying and becoming whatever the f the developers want.

This is relevant to the decons again because? None of those are detailed or explained, the ones that Dante kills in 4 can be easily attributed to decons as he killed them with E&I, while 2 of them are left up the air. In 3 none of them dies, always becoming devil arms while the random demons are using a medium, in 1 it’s the same thing, in the novels they don’t die like that either nor in the anime or the mangas always leaving the husk/corpse behind.

Vol2 is even tells you that the bodies of the demons killed in the war lay there even after Dante and the rest march towards Mundus.


2) He is a half demon half human, something that gets throw at his face every single time, heck, he is referred as a human and a half breed in Vol1 and DMC3/1 most of the time, even by the demons he kills.

Dante entering the demon world and not being forcefully transformed into a full demon is something you know?

> Im talking about the demon world's effects of turning ppl into demons they do not effect demons cus they are technically speaking already affected.

Proof of this? Because never, in a single instance are we told, hinted or shown that they are already affected or being affected by it.

> The disease and shit that's....fine? But considering Dante did get affected why is that resistance in the first place.

You missed the point. It is to show that Tony was affected by the demon world shit and by the time of 3 he was completely fine with it.


3) Same thing as above, dante isn’t forcefully transformed into something he isn’t, nor is he forcefully put in a DT state despite being half human.

The point of the feats was to show that we have a lot of cases where the demon world can affect demons, the most prominent one i can think of right now is in Vol2 where they get close to Mundus who is the heart/nexus/source of the demon world in that universe and getting close to him is enough to make the demons following Dante drop because of it.


4) It is still fear hax. He doesn’t know they are demons; he doesn’t even know demons exist (which is something common in dmc in case you missed it). These guys are mercenaries, they aren’t easily scared, that is even pointed out later in the novel they wouldn’t falter with something like that (I even linked that before). He wouldn’t be scared of some noices.

You are dismissing the feat based on “stronger demons shouldn’t be scared of weaker ones” when this has never been the case, never has been pointed, told or shown. This is just some baseless assumption

Did we read the same thing? It is clear as hell that the presence of those demons unsettled him, he was scared and trying to run away from it, their presence was making him feel bad to the point his mind was playing tricks on him.



1) You can kill them without attacking the cores, attacking the cores directly is another thing completely (and makes the fights easier) except for nightmare who is protected by the plates and the only way to damage him is to attack the cores directly or go inside him and damage him from there.

If you don’t believe me ask anyone who has played dmc1 or go play it yourself, I could maybe even record it but I won’t just because you haven’t played the game and only you need visuals.


2) We have multiple cases in fiction about poison ******* people with regen so this is muda. He didn’t even take damage from the blood so this is muda too, heck, the demon was damaged by his own blood when Dante cut him in half despite the monkey himself having regeneration, having recovered from Dante’s assault just some moments earlier.


3) Did you even read the page? The revisions thread? The revision only said that getting hit with something that is AZ doesn’t grant resistance, getting frozen by it still does.

The resistance would still be for breaking free from being frozen at AZ.

“Absolute Zero only applies if the target is the object getting frozen to absolute zero”


4) Urizen literally had a more prominent aura than Dante at the beginning of the game and he was asleep when V noticed it (visions of V), so Dante having a more prominent aura while in coma still holds value. It is there, the video is enough.

Why would they be attracted to Nero who hasn’t been there?

In case you forgot, they reacted to V when he was there but not to Dante, adding more fuel to the ability, showing that they do react to other shit in their way/path/range.



1) We can clearly see Dante’s chest after he gets stabbed and there are 0 wounds on him so no, I can deny statements on visual we CAN see. We can easily claim it is the same thing with Vergil at the end.

DMC5 its just Dante tired, if his regen was taxed do you think he would have been okay going after Vergil immediately despite having wounds that could make him falter and lose/die against him? No, he isn’t a brainless fool to do that.

And this is irrelevant to Sid’s regen and Dante negating said regen.



1) You kinda missed the point here but this is somewhat meh for me.


3) Fair point. Still keeps his Dimensional travel tho, 5 should keep the universal/dimensional travel as he has the perfect amulet there.

1) Nero was resurrected because he has Vergil’s blood, the blood of the demon that was brought to the world by Sparda, the same blood that resonates between them.

Dante didn’t find first, that’s why. He was never killed either, he never needed those because 4 was a walk in the park for him.

4) Fine by me

 

[Firephoenixearl]

another thing. the scan implies that demon blood gives regen by default "if i cut this out, You wont Recover, no matter how much demon blood you have" which is consistently shown to be the case.

The fire spider died to getting impaled by a statue and never regenerated, so.....

 

[Sevil Natas]

The fire spider died to getting impaled by a statue and never regenerated, so.....

considering that the phantom didnt even get out of the statue to get a chance to regenerate in the first place thats not a very good argument

 

[Firephoenixearl]

considering that the phantom didnt even get out of the statue to get a chance to regenerate in the first place thats not a very good argument

Demons don't die because of something they can regenerate. Your argument is like saying if you leave your sword in Dante's heart he cannot regenerate. Which we know ain't true.

There is still the case with Credo, he never regenerated. Agnus, never regenerated. The Savior, never regenerated, Bael never regenerated (the dude got freaking punched to death).

 

[Sevil Natas]

Demons don't die because of something they can regenerate. Your argument is like saying if you leave your sword in Dante's heart he cannot regenerate. Which we know ain't true.

There is still the case with Credo, he never regenerated. Agnus, never regenerated. The Savior, never regenerated, Bael never regenerated (the dude got freaking punched to death).

pretty sure he died because of the pummeling that dante gave him not because he got impaled by a statue.
also Credo and Agnus werent even on their demon forms when they died and it could be just negation that killed them, and it doesnt even matter they're not natural demons anyway.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

pretty sure he died because of the pummeling that dante gave him not because he got impaled by a statue.

It didn't even have wounds from dante, come on that's throwing headcanon on a whole new level. The spider gets impaled, it turns to lava. That's as obvious as one can make it.

Credo and Agnus werent even on their demon forms when they died and it could be just negation that killed them

Credo was hurt when he was in demon form. And he wasn't even killed by Dante so....no negation there.

and it doesnt even matter they're not natural demons anyway.

It kind of does, although artificial they still are demons. Have demonic power, demonic forms etc. And what about savior who was compiled of thousands of demons?

 

[TFSCell]

The statue was less responsible for Phantoms death, it was more likely Dante's fight against him that killed him. Agnus not regenerating against Dante makes sense considering Dante can null regen with his guns too. Credo got stabbed with Yamato which easily killed Beowulf and has a case for negging regen as well.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The statue was less responsible for Phantoms death, it was more likely Dante's fight against him that killed him.

Headcanon, the spider only died after it was impaled, you need some ridiculous levels of "my opinion is the only correct one" to even argue that.

Credo got stabbed with Yamato which easily killed Beowulf and has a case for negging regen as well.

That's if you assume Sanctus could even use it's powers. Also why would Yamato be the one with regen negation instead of Vergil? You're just slapping power wherever you want.

You guys have unironically slapped like 3 levels of negation and resistances to characters just to somehow make this less inconsistent. If that was the way to go everyone would have a thousand levels of shit like this cus of 1 random quote that is clearly not true for every character.

Also what about the Savior?

 

[Sevil Natas]

Headcanon, the spider only died after it was impaled, you need some ridiculous levels of "my opinion is the only correct one" to even argue that.

That's if you assume Sanctus could even use it's powers. Also why would Yamato be the one with regen negation instead of Vergil? You're just slapping power wherever you want.

You guys have unironically slapped like 3 levels of negation and resistances to characters just to somehow make this less inconsistent. If that was the way to go everyone would have a thousand levels of shit like this cus of 1 random quote that is clearly not true for every character.

Also what about the Savior?

yes head canon, because of course a statue could hurt & kill a 7-B demon by itself (7-B statue confirmed) and there was never a case where demons randomly die after fighting dante

and yes sanctus could use its powers, he already did use its space manipulation to open hell gates and to pierce neros arm also FRA yamato did give demonic powers to its users like vergil, nero etc. also using artificial demons is unreliable because they're not really demons, they're just humans using demonic power. and there's no reason for regen to apply to them, since they dont have demonic blood inside.

also the savior's skin & crystals werent even organic to begin with. why would it regen?

also why does all of this matter? that battle with sid lasted like 30 seconds, DMC fights last way longer & ppl could still regen.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Well, decided to look through the scans here. I'll just comment my evaluation of the regeneration debate.

Demon Blood

For starters, I'm kind of confused why High regeneration is being pushed for the cast when the main scan being used to say that demon blood = regen is also saying that Dante would die from having his heart removed. Either we take that statement seriously or we don't, we shouldn't cherrypick parts of it that agree with our given argument. I'm also not sure what's being used to prove that all demons have comparable levels of regen.

Low-High Regen

The scan that is supposed to support low-high paradoxically claims the character that was "slowly recovering" from being "melted" still had arms to breach the skin of what they were trapped in, suggesting that they weren't fully melted to a degree that would warrant low-high. A response to something Earl argued included this scan, which, despite the user linking it claiming that it said that the giant would melt Dante, the scan makes no mention of melting and goes for the vague "absorption", something that the cast already appears to resist anyways.

Overall I don't think Low-High is sufficiently proven here, nor was there sufficient evidence provided that all Demons have the same level of regenerative powers. I do not think they should be upgraded to that from their current ratings based purely on the above discussion.

Regeneration Negation

As for regeneration negation, there should be a statement that a specific character can bypass regenerative abilities rather than us assuming they have an undescribed power. Otherwise it's more along the lines of an inconsistency if the characters have demonstrated better regeneration feats, especially with a series with as much history as DmC.

If the characters more consistently have higher levels of regen, go with that while keeping the low-ends in mind rather than fabricating an excuse for the low-ends to exist. If the characters more consistently have lower levels of regen, go with that while considering the higher-ends as inconsistent or an outlier. I don't personally know or care which is more consistent in DmC, however I don't like tacking on abilities to solve inconsistencies in fan interpretations.

Stamina Regen

I do not feel like Earl has sufficiently proven that DmC regen gets weaker with stamina, and the counterexamples that were brought up vs. his arguments were pretty straightforward. Such a weakness shouldn't be added to the profiles without proper scans.

 

[TFSCell]

In DMC 5, Yamato is said to be the source of Vergil's power. Also, isn’t the Savior a statue? I can’t speak on that as I’m not too knowledgeable on the game.

 

[Sevil Natas]

In DMC 5, Yamato is said to be the source of Vergil's power. Also, isn’t the Savior a statue? I can’t speak on that as I’m not too knowledgeable on the game.

at least his skin and probably his head are not even organic not sure what earl is even arguing there

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I do not feel like Earl has sufficiently proven that DmC regen gets weaker with stamina, and the counterexamples that were brought up vs. his arguments were pretty straightforward. Such a weakness shouldn't be added to the profiles without proper scans.

Not with Stamina. Just after taking damage continuously during a fight. Because there are several scenes where their wounds do not heal with even the characters themselves mentioning such a thing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

at least his skin and probably his head are not even organic not sure what earl is even arguing there

The savior was stated to be built off of demons melded together.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Anyway @Dargoo_Faust about the reason why i say that the more they get damaged the more their regen weakens is. In the first fight between Dante and Vergil. These guys have no trouble regening at the beginning of the fight, however after the fight ends and these guys have stabbed and sliced each-other several times. This happens:
Bit of context, dante was stabbed through the chest in that fight. After he gets up, transforms into a demon then back into a human. We see no wound on his chest, and the ground below is clean, but as soon as he falls into the ground the ground starts to get tainted in blood. Showing that the fact that they show no wound doesn't mean there is none (might be a designer choice, maybe they just forgot idk).
In the 2nd fight a similar thing happens. After having cleanly hit themselves multiple times, they slice themselves in the chest, the bad guy comes in showing how he's made a fool out of everybody and everyone played in the palm of his hand, but Dante then is shown again on screen, no signs of wound anywhere but he is holding his flank (clearly implying he is damaged) and even has trouble walking no more than 5 seconds later after that scene. And clearly physical stamina wasn't an issue as he was flying around fighting vergil 5 seconds ago, but he took more and more damage after that. Jester proceeds to say how Vergil has taken quite a trouncing (more proof of it being just a case of having taken a ton of damage), then after more blah blah about his plan Dante interrupts him and proceeds to attack him, but Jester says "You are wounded and weak". Again outright stating that they are currently damaged. Even though if their regen were at peak form from beginning to the end they wouldn't have been wounded.
Another scene saying the same thing is in DMC5 after a battle with Urizen, Vergil tells Dante "Heal your wounds Dante". Clearly implying he is wounded in that scene.

And if there is one thing we know is that there is no other characters in the series that can push Vergil and Dante to their limits more than each-other.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Regeneration Negation

As for regeneration negation, there should be a statement that a specific character can bypass regenerative abilities rather than us assuming they have an undescribed power. Otherwise it's more along the lines of an inconsistency if the characters have demonstrated better regeneration feats, especially with a series with as much history as DmC.

We do have some regen neg feat, like in the novel where Chen breaks dante's arm into two parts, and dante fighted till the end with two broken arms, and collapsed because of exhaustion, and of course he regenerated back, but Chen definily did neg dante's regen.
And no Earl, one of Dante first moves is to break Chen's leg and Chen retaliates with breaking Dante's arm, so is impossible to dante regen already be taxed.

For starters, I'm kind of confused why High regeneration is being pushed for the cast when the main scan being used to say that demon blood = regen is also saying that Dante would die from having his heart removed. Either we take that statement seriously or we don't, we shouldn't cherrypick parts of it that agree with our given argument. I'm also not sure what's being used to prove that all demons have comparable levels of regen.

Dante regen isnt impressive when he isnt powerfull, even after the final fight wih Gilver he still didnt recover entirely yet, like Gilver at this point broke Dante's leg, thighs and more, if Gilver destroyed is heart, Dante would die.

But Dante's heart isnt a true weakness, when Alastor states this, and aims at Dante's heart and Dante does some show off (time stamp: 4:03)

The scan that is supposed to support low-high paradoxically claims the character that was "slowly recovering" from being "melted" still had arms to breach the skin of what they were trapped in, suggesting that they weren't fully melted to a degree that would warrant low-high. A response to something Earl argued included this scan, which, despite the user linking it claiming that it said that the giant would melt Dante, the scan makes no mention of melting and goes for the vague "absorption", something that the cast already appears to resist anyways.

Overall I don't think Low-High is sufficiently proven here, nor was there sufficient evidence provided that all Demons have the same level of regenerative powers. I do not think they should be upgraded to that from their current ratings based purely on the above discussion.

Not lying here, this feat either is true or just absorption to be true. Nero also did lost his weapons there and only having yamato that as launched to him by dante. Considering how Yamato interacts with Nero, and Nero on the novel had to use some magic knife (which he does create when he have Yamato), to create some space and grab yamato to leave from Savior's heart. You can check the cutscene (time stamp: 18:50).

Later i can get Nero using magic knife scan.