DMC Downgrade #2: Hax Edition

[EFÍTÉ]

See if you have a good reason as to why they should have the same abilities then that's legitimate but currently in the profiles there's nothing to elaborate on. Being that it's Mundus from an alternative reality it shouldn't scale to main reality Mundus.

there is a legit reason to scale, i aint bringing here right now, because is totaly irrelevant to the thread and is planned on a future ctr.

 

[LordGinSama]

He isn't nullifying type 5, he's able to interact and kill those with NEP, and I still see no proof of NEP ever granting type 5 by default. Being non existent shouldn't make you exempt from the concepts of life and death.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Unless you got a scan showing demons aint affected by demon world hax because they born there.

When did i say that? I said they're not affected by "get turned into demons" because they already are demons.

Instead i have some scans here where Gilver himself states Demons dont get fear haxed by their own nature and Gilver states Dante being half demon

That's talking about despair, not fear.

here Dantes admitted he got sick by the demon world, since the tree was warping/bringing the demon world.

Again i never argued against this resistance, i argued against the other resistances (of being turned into a demon). When will somebody stop bringing me this same thing over and over despite me saying that my issue is not that?

And also another thing, demons have fear aura and have Madness hax, doenst matter if is six sense, you dont get to used it normaly and neither have affect on you normaly

I've answered that first one several times throughout the thread the "radiated despair" is very flowery. As for madness hax, that's not a thing, that's just saying that people are so scared they go insane, it's a result of the fear people have when meeting them rather than sth the demons induce. As for the fear the scan you posted proves that it's just the 6th sense.

Royal Guard powernull comes from 5, want know something crazy about it ? Royal Guard works as a shield around dante, works exactly like the power null abilitie from 5 because: we can see Dante literally power nullying Agnus Life manipulation attacks with Royal Guard, Time stamp: 8:22 and 8:38, and before someone say Agnus doenst have life manipulation, the guide itself confirms the hax.

This is much better than anything anyone has posted, but it's not enough. In the grab attack he just blocks the grab itself which is a physical attack that can be blocked. In the AoE, that's just game mechanics, you don't block being absorbed and he clearly isn't nullifying the ability as Agnus' life drain (as an ability with all of it's effects) continues even after you've blocked it, if Dante nullified that, it wouldn't continue. Just game mechanics because everything in the game is made in the form of hit-box, and royal block just reacts to these hit-boxes. Makes no sense in context.

About descontruction, while its true when Gilver as dying by molecules being dissolved (dante didnt cause that), Dante here performs this feat where he almosts divides the molecules around him by speed and Dante on 3 already is more faster than is novel vol 1 counterpart, so descontruction stays and gets even more stronger when dante gets more faster.

Glad you agree. Although that 2nd part "the molecules of the sir itself". What is he referring to with "sir"? Also that's not deconstruction, cus that's done with AP (speed in this case). And you can actually atomize things with sheer AP, with more context it could be "can cut molecular structure" which is a form of Durability Negation, but needs a bit more than that, because of as i said, you can accomplish that with sheer AP.

On Type 5 negation and AZ resistance i won't waste too much time cus you didn't bring anything new. The type 5 negation is still just NPI and the AZ resistance is still just resistance to cold, for reasons i have said earlier in the thread.

V's feat is soul hax, he went into Nightmares body and removed his core (soul), thats is counted as Soul hax feat on soul manipulation page. Your problem here is the stantard. (and some staff and already agreed with the cores being soul, just check the my V revision thread).

V's feat is. Not Dante's and V's feat is still ehhhh, cus he did it by grabbing the soul, rather than just yeeting the soul without interacting with it. But again, Dante has no such feat and it should still be specified on the profile that "he can do this by touching a person's soul". I don't mind if it's put as Soul Hax instead of NPI cus im a firm believer of the "if it's explained well enough it doesn't matter".

And no Dante isnt a demon, he is half human and demon, Gilver already stated that, the manga states both dante and vergil being half human and demon, Arkham also states Vergil is incomplete (not 100% demon) and both human and demon blood flows on Vergil. Time Stamp: 1:35.

He isn't, i just said he qualifies as a demon for the beastheads hax and the demon world's demonification. He obviously is half breed.

To NOT BE ASSIMILATED INTO THE BEASTHEADS, you need to be DEMON or BE on SOME % DEMON.

Is this you agreeing with me?

Weird you say that, when the series never said about regeneration becoming weaker after long battles. Please show proof, your own words alone dont have face value.

It's not my words, it's the characters' words, namely Jester and Vergil's words.

Thats the thing, the sword protects those who are bloodline related and worthy, to the point even Sanctus managed to resonate with the sword, before the sword itself realized there is something wrong. The sword didnt make is own presence higher so nobody would detect Dante, if that happened Cavalier and Malphas would have find the sword before V. So the Sparda sword did hide its own presence and Dante's presence.
If you are doubting that Sanctus did resonate with the sword, check this out, so is i believe i made clear that the sword does choose the wielder and protects bloodline related people and worthy people.

I never said the Sword amplified its own presence, i said it has naturally more presence than Dante. Also none of those scans show that the demon sword sparda can hide other people's presence.

About DMC anime resistance to sound manip, here the episode, time stamp: 9:43, she even destroys a concrete pillar. Yes is related to sound, not air manipulation, the entire episode makes that clear.

Yeah yeah fair, but that's just durability. You are getting hit by sound waves, you don't need to resist sound to not die from those. Just durability.


All in all, you're more specific than the other ppl who gave input, some points were the same but some others were much better.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Being a void doesn't make you exempt from the concept of death, that's just non corporal hax and inorganic philology.



And it doesn't matter if the room is made of AZ or not, it's still not freezing the target and bringing their internal temperature to AZ.

According tho Mundus alternative reality key, he is a empty void, not just a common or non specific Void, by that he gains Nonexistent Physiology type 1 which grants him immortality type 5. Seens fine by me.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

When did i say that? I said they're not affected by "get turned into demons" because they already are demons.

I asked a scan of demons not being affected because they are born there, you didnt bring any and i did bring scans of dante being affected and reactive evolution feats breaks your entire argument.

That's talking about despair, not fear.

DMC counts them as fear hax.

Again i never argued against this resistance, i argued against the other resistances (of being turned into a demon). When will somebody stop bringing me this same thing over and over despite me saying that my issue is not that?

Again, when you say they are immune to other hax, you also says by consequence they are immune to all other hax related to the demon world, we are SHOWING they do get affected, and AGAIN reactive evolution feats, what the godamn dificulty to understand that?

I've answered that first one several times throughout the thread the "radiated despair" is very flowery. As for madness hax, that's not a thing, that's just saying that people are so scared they go insane, it's a result of the fear people have when meeting them rather than sth the demons induce. As for the fear the scan you posted proves that it's just the 6th sense.

Ahh yes the flowery language card but without elaboration and despair in DMC is fear, the radiated despair goes along with the second novel when demons fear hax people, you know six sense is supernatural by nature (and DMC follows six sense being supernatural), according to the fear hax page, its happens by SUPERNATURAL MEANS. Hell even extra-sensory hax is supernatural by his page stantard.

This is much better than anything anyone has posted, but it's not enough. In the grab attack he just blocks the grab itself which is a physical attack that can be blocked. In the AoE, that's just game mechanics, you don't block being absorbed and he clearly isn't nullifying the ability as Agnus' life drain (as an ability with all of it's effects) continues even after you've blocked it, if Dante nullified that, it wouldn't continue. Just game mechanics because everything in the game is made in the form of hit-box, and royal block just reacts to these hit-boxes. Makes no sense in context.

Holy mother of headcannon, he only absorbs your life when he hits you (thats why the player LOSES health bars), and he only hits you only time, which goes against your logic here, Royal Guard nullified the hax, fits the use of powernull in one of the Royal guard descriptions used on DMC 5, end of discussion and no Earl this hole its gameplay mechanics that you argue have been proved wrong about it on your DMC Speed downgrade thread. Debating this again is a waste of time.

He isn't, i just said he qualifies as a demon for the beastheads hax and the demon world's demonification. He obviously is half breed.

Refuted by reactive evolution feats and demons are generally resistance to Beastheads assimilation hax, GENERALLY IMMUNE, this means some demon at some point did get assimilated.

It's not my words, it's the characters' words, namely Jester and Vergil's words.

AHAHAHA no, Arkham states Vergil and Dante are Tired (which affects their AP and Speed, time stamp 10:18), he never meant for their regeneration, look at Vergil regen speed and both are tired. Time stamp: 10:30 Or here for Dante when Vergil stabs Dante he can see a clear wound and on the next scene he is healed (time stamp: 24:40), even Kid Vergil have this type of feat too.

V's feat is. Not Dante's and V's feat is still ehhhh, cus he did it by grabbing the soul, rather than just yeeting the soul without interacting with it. But again, Dante has no such feat and it should still be specified on the profile that "he can do this by touching a person's soul". I don't mind if it's put as Soul Hax instead of NPI cus im a firm believer of the "if it's explained well enough it doesn't matter".

Grasping others souls is still soul hax, Soul manipulation states that, thats where you wrong, on the same anime episode i just send you, a Demon is possesing the woman singer named Elena (Th demon as controlling elenas body and soul inside her), dante throws rebellion and he straight up kills the demon without even harming Elena. There is your soul hax feat for dante.

Everybody here is free to check the episode.

I never said the Sword amplified its own presence, i said it has naturally more presence than Dante. Also none of those scans show that the demon sword sparda can hide other people's presence.

I guess you didnt read correctly, the fact the sword have more presence means everybody WOULD SENSE THE GODAMN SWORD and find it BEFORE V. The Scans proves the sparda sword HAVE CONSCIENCE and can choose to protect his wielder.

Yeah yeah fair, but that's just durability. You are getting hit by sound waves, you don't need to resist sound to not die from those. Just durability.

I can see where you going, but considering there is another Sound manipulation feat on the novel vol 2 where Berly gets affected and Dante isnt, it does falls into being resistance to sound manipulation.

AZ resistance is still just resistance to cold, for reasons i have said earlier in the thread.

Hmm really, by logic Dante would get frozen by Frosts when near and when he is hit by their claws. Can be just resistance to cold because Frosts own file states they are BEYOND AZ. (of course more negative temperature than AZ). And again Cerberus in 3 freezes the temen-nih-gru door and use alot of AZ attacks and dante get unharmed, have in mind cerberus scales way higher than Frosts.

On Type 5 negation and AZ resistance i won't waste too much time cus you didn't bring anything new

Void Mundus have Nonexistent_Physiology granted because he is a Empty Void, which grants him immortality type 5.
Being a Empty Void fits the criteria.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

DMC counts them as fear hax.

Might be better to just call it "Empathic Manipulation" to cover all potential bases. Usually works when an emotional power is a bit vague in application/description.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Might be better to just call it "Empathic Manipulation" to cover all potential bases. Usually works when an emotional power is a bit vague in application/description.

Hmm, that can work actually and would fix some incosistencies. I realized alot of the scans uses Despair.
I will do a search for fear hax on that case.
Thanks

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I asked a scan of demons not being affected because they are born there, you didnt bring any and i did bring scans of dante being affected and reactive evolution feats breaks your entire argument.

When did i use being born there as an argument? Can you quote that?

DMC counts them as fear hax.

Dargoo answered this, maybe put the despair part in a special thread, gather everything you can to prove it's not flowery and it might be fine. But despair and fear are not the same.

Again, when you say they are immune to other hax, you also says by consequence they are immune to all other hax related to the demon world, we are SHOWING they do get affected, and AGAIN reactive evolution feats, what the godamn dificulty to understand that?

The 2 resistance i mention are "soul" and "corruption". Can you pls show me having issues with the disease and all the other stuff you mentioned? The soul and corruption work to turn people into demons, but Dante already is a demon. That is my only issue, all this whacky disease is all on your side, i never mentioned any issues with any of them.

Ahh yes the flowery language card but without elaboration and despair in DMC is fear, the radiated despair goes along with the second novel when demons fear hax people, you know six sense is supernatural by nature (and DMC follows six sense being supernatural), according to the fear hax page, its happens by SUPERNATURAL MEANS. Hell even extra-sensory hax is supernatural by his page stantard.

The elaboration against flowery language is the one that has to be made, basically proof that that's concrete. All that fear hax page as Dargoo said, it's not despair, so let's stick to only 1. As for the "supernatural", that's a wrong understanding of "supernatural". Because it's supernatural-ish (not really supernatural) for the human (for having this sense to begin with) not the demon.

Holy mother of headcannon, he only absorbs your life when he hits you (thats why the player LOSES health bars), and he only hits you only time, which goes against your logic here, Royal Guard nullified the hax, fits the use of powernull in one of the Royal guard descriptions used on DMC 5, end of discussion and no Earl this hole its gameplay mechanics that you argue have been proved wrong about it on your DMC Speed downgrade thread. Debating this again is a waste of time.

The fact that the game allows you to "block" absorption is not game mechanics how? And no it's not power null cus the ability was still in effect for Agnus, Dante just "blocked" it, which again is ugh....the hit box existing in absorption.

Refuted by reactive evolution feats and demons are generally resistance to Beastheads assimilation hax, GENERALLY IMMUNE, this means some demon at some point did get assimilated.

The beastheads outright say "it replenishes demons", it legit doesn't even negatively affect demons, let alone arguing for resistance.

AHAHAHA no, Arkham states Vergil and Dante are Tired (which affects their AP and Speed, time stamp 10:18), he never meant for their regeneration, look at Vergil regen speed and both are tired. Time stamp: 10:30 Or here for Dante when Vergil stabs Dante he can see a clear wound and on the next scene he is healed (time stamp: 24:40), even Kid Vergil have this type of feat too.

Arkham: You are wounded and weak.
You: No he did not say that.
And again other cases of them being tired don't really help, i can easily say their regen wasn't taxed to the same level as in the 2nd fight, or after Urizen. You're contradicting the words directly here.

Grasping others souls is still soul hax, Soul manipulation states that, thats where you wrong, on the same anime episode i just send you, a Demon is possesing the woman singer named Elena (Th demon as controlling elenas body and soul inside her), dante throws rebellion and he straight up kills the demon without even harming Elena. There is your soul hax feat for dante.

That probs needs to be fixed on the page tbh, but eh whatever i can't say anything for now.

Everybody here is free to check the episode.

Hmm, wouldn't it be limited though? Cus he can yeet the demons off of someone, but he didn't detach the woman's soul from her body, considering she's alive and all.

I guess you didnt read correctly, the fact the sword have more presence means everybody WOULD SENSE THE GODAMN SWORD and find it BEFORE V. The Scans proves the sparda sword HAVE CONSCIENCE and can choose to protect his wielder.

I mean it having more presence than a passed out dante that had been in a coma for a month isn't exactly more presence than everybody.

I can see where you going, but considering there is another Sound manipulation feat on the novel vol 2 where Berly gets affected and Dante isnt, it does falls into being resistance to sound manipulation.

Oh, that sounds fair. Although needs to be said on the profile that he is just more tolerant to loud noises (doesn't get deafened). Although it could be attributed to regen, but eh no big deal, it can stay.

Hmm really, by logic Dante would get frozen by Frosts when near and when he is hit by their claws. Can be just resistance to cold because Frosts own file states they are BEYOND AZ. (of course more negative temperature than AZ). And again Cerberus in 3 freezes the temen-nih-gru door and use alot of AZ attacks and dante get unharmed, have in mind cerberus scales way higher than Frosts.

Uhhh when did cerberus in 3 show to have AZ? Also i've told you like 16 times that the frost one doesn't qualify for resistance to AZ and is just resistance to cold. I didn't change the standard. Dargoo did.

Void Mundus have Nonexistent_Physiology granted because he is a Empty Void, which grants him immortality type 5.
Being a Empty Void fits the criteria.

As i said i have my own issues on this but this is not the thread for it.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Might be better to just call it "Empathic Manipulation" to cover all potential bases. Usually works when an emotional power is a bit vague in application/description.

I need to make you a question, the wiki here treats Six sense as supernatural in nature ?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I do agree that Empathic manip seems better for their multiple feats

"Hmm, wouldn't it be limited though? Cus he can yeet the demons off of someone, but he didn't detach the woman's soul from her body, considering she's alive and all"

As you know, demons are evil spirits, not only Dante can kill demons possessing dolls directly, when they don't have their physical form (Devil May Cry 1, which is the same feat the many chars of the Castlevania cast has Soul Hax), but separating the demon from Elena is literally yeeting a soul out of her body, in this case the evil spirit, not Elena's own Soul

"The soul and corruption work to turn people into demons, but Dante already is a demon. That is my only issue, all this whacky disease is all on your side, i never mentioned any issues with any of them."

The corruption is to transform beings into a specific type of Demon, we have many scans for Disease stuff happening on the first novel

Scan 1 and Scan 2

 

[Firephoenixearl]

>Me saying i have no issue with the disease stuff
>People "BUT MUH HAVE SCANS FOR THAT"

Hoi fam, i did not ask. I have no issue with that, and i swear to god the next person who brings that up should leave the debate as he's either ******* blind or outright refusing to read anything i am saying and sticks to arguing whatever the hell he wants instead of the true topic of the argument. Jeez, you guys are abysmal, did you really learn to read correctly?

Need scan for corruption turning people into a specific type of demon though.

As for the evil spirit, that's why i say it's limited. He can yeet evil spirits from people, not the person's own soul. Would work as a nice counter to type 6 immortality though, so that's pretty good.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Arkham: You are wounded and weak.
You: No he did not say that.
And again other cases of them being tired don't really help, i can easily say their regen wasn't taxed to the same level as in the 2nd fight, or after Urizen. You're contradicting the words directly here.

Arkham's statements does open a possibility, but feats go completely against said statement, and we have multiple feats from tired Dante, Vergil and etc of still having high level regen, and that's what most amazes me, based on a single quote from a game you just wanna ignore the HUGE collection of feats of regen-when-tired. Not only that, but Dante has multiple other feats of negating Regeneration, Beowulf didn't heal from his eye wound (Was okay but kept blinded), Argosax was partially broken and didn't healed (And he has far superior regen to Sid), Urizen couldn't heal from Dantes's wounds (Another one with superior regen to Sid)

Scan 1

Scan 2

Scan 3

Scan 4

Sid and Nero have Low-High regen feats (and this is Nero after the beatdown from Savior/Sanctus), multiple people scale from them and some of them couldn't heal from Dante's attacks

 

[Lightning_XXI]

"As for the evil spirit, that's why i say it's limited"

Suuure, limited when Dante can directly kill them while they are possessing physical stuff in our world, yeeting souls out of people body isn't the only feat on his side

"Need scan for corruption turning people into a specific type of demon though."

Corruption scan

Hmm, it says "humans", dunno if we can actually use then

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I mean you wanna disregard 2 quotes off of something that can be easily hidden within clothes? You're contradicting the canon here buddy.

As for those examples you mentioned when did Beowulf show any kind of regen ever?
Agrosax has shown regen?
I mean...Urizen how is his case any different from the normal demons Dante fights?

And the fact that Vergil regens from Dante's attacks is proof enough that this ability isn't really a thing for Dante.

The soul manip: Ok that's what i said, can kill demons who have possessed humans. But he doesn't yeet their soul. And what else do they have on their side.

Corruption: 1. Humans. 2. That's just a type of monster they were turned into. The spider was another demon that was created from the demon world. It's clearly not a specific demon considering there are 2 types of demons that have been created from humans into the demon world so...yeah. It just turns people into demons in general.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Nero regen also don't slow against Urizen

 

[Lightning_XXI]

As for those examples you mentioned when did Beowulf show any kind of regen ever?
Agrosax has shown regen?
I mean...Urizen how is his case any different from the normal demons Dante fights?

Beowulf is a high level demon, they have regen thanks to their physiology, it's linked to their blood as you can see

Lower Tier demons have showcased high evel regen feats

Scan 1

Scan 2

Scan 3

And there are others

Keep ignoring the obvious scalling to Sid in Argosax's and Urizen's case, it's on their profiles, it's on their demon physiology page, Urizen is shown being cut and not healing in the very cutscene he got defeated, same for Argosax

"I mean you wanna disregard 2 quotes off of something that can be easily hidden within clothes? You're contradicting the canon here buddy."

I literally didn't understood what you mean there, sure clothes on a game vs feats, scans, statements from games, manga, novels, anime, anyway, I really don't think using canon contradicts canon, well, we learn new things everyday apparently

And the fact that Vergil regens from Dante's attacks is proof enough that this ability isn't really a thing for Dante.

Suuuuuuuuure, because we don't have something called Resistance here, Vergil healing from Dante is something consistent in the entire show, that doesn't nuke the other blalant feats

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Dayum, I get away for some time and Earl gets clapped, nice bois

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I need to make you a question, the wiki here treats Six sense as supernatural in nature ?

It depends on how the sixth sense is explained, and what the verse means by "sixth sense", which is something that can mean a ton of different things.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

It depends on how the sixth sense is explained, and what the verse means by "sixth sense", which is something that can mean a ton of different things.

Their "Sixth Sense" fits Extrasensory Perception actually, they can sense people from far away, sense their power, aura, Dante constantly senses evil in Mallet Island on DMC1, it does seem to be supernatural

They also have some Enhanced Senses feats, seeing souls for example

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Nero regen also don't slow against Urizen

....
Nero....pre-awakening....regen?
..........Excuse me?

Their "Sixth Sense" fits Extrasensory Perception actually, they can sense people from far away, sense their power, aura, Dante constantly senses evil in Mallet Island on DMC1, it does seem to be supernatural

he's talking about human's 6th sense which is the reason for the fear they perceive. Not Dante sensing aura.

Beowulf is a high level demon, they have regen thanks to their physiology, it's linked to their blood as you can see

Yet he himself never showed any feats of regen. He could not heal up his head from Vergil's sword either. You don't use a dude who has never shown regen to argue for regen negation. Find me better examples.

Urizen is shown being cut and not healing in the very cutscene he got defeated

Yet that same Urizen is shown being cut by Nero and taking about a minute to heal a single graze. Also Urizen and Vergil are the same person the fact that Urizen couldn't heal from Dante's would but Vergil could just proves the fact that it has nothing to do with regen negation and resistance, but rather Urizen not being that good at regen to begin with as shown with Nero and his graze.

I literally didn't understood what you mean there, sure clothes on a game vs feats

You're the one using "we see no wounds" despite clothes being a thing to deny the fact that it can get taxed as stated by the characters. There is no statement in the entirety of the DMC canon that their regen cannot be taxed, however the opposite is true. And i can easily say that all those other examples that the author didn't consider their regen taxed enough in those cases. Or that their wounds weren't 100% healed at that point. Vergil was cut in half? Part of his body healed (connected) but the wound was still there. You're the one saying "they're not wounded" despite them stating "we are wounded". How can you even argue against what the characters say?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

"Yet he himself never showed any feats of regen. He could not heal up his head from Vergil's sword either. You don't use a dude who has never shown regen to argue for regen negation. Find me better examples."

Yo yes, i'm am Earl, I'll ignore your scans because reasons

I'll ignore this one where it's stated the regeneration comes from their blood

I'll ignore far lesser demons having feats of regeneration

I'll ignore this one too

Stop asking for better examples if this amount of proof apparently isn't worth your atention, which is odd, you did the thread because you want proof, and yet pretend not seeing them

"Yet that same Urizen is shown being cut by Nero and taking about a minute to heal a single graze. Also Urizen and Vergil are the same person the fact that Urizen couldn't heal from Dante's would but Vergil could just proves the fact that it has nothing to do with regen negation and resistance, but rather Urizen not being that good at regen to begin with as shown with Nero and his graze."

He healed from Nero's cut, he took his time looking what Nero had done, indeed, since for Urizen Nero didn't had the power to do that, why would that change something ? He casually healed and kept fighting, yet couldn't heal from Dante

Urizen and Vergil are not the same person, V is his human side that also has some demonc power and his memories, of course you don't know this, but humanity in DMC isn't powerless, want more proof then Urizen losing against Dante, while Vergil didn't ? Nico's Reports also said when fusing, his weakened days were over, and he reached his full potential after that

"You're the one using "we see no wounds" despite clothes being a thing to deny the fact that it can get taxed as stated by the characters. There is no statement in the entirety of the DMC canon that their regen cannot be taxed, however the opposite is true. And i can easily say that all those other examples that the author didn't consider their regen taxed enough in those cases. Or that their wounds weren't 100% healed at that point. Vergil was cut in half? Part of his body healed (connected) but the wound was still there. You're the one saying "they're not wounded" despite them stating "we are wounded". How can you even argue against what the characters say?"

Putting words in my mouth, I see

I believe we saw Dante being stabbed multiple times and his clothes were intact, they just don't change his model in game just for that. There is no statement but better yet, there are feats showing their regen is there, but of course you ignored the scans, let's also guess that the author was smoking bananas aswell ? You seriously based your point in "nah, the author didn't considered", talk about some lazy authors considering we have MULTIPLE feats and statements on diferent media, with different authors (Shinya and Bingo) yet the same result. Their stamina is indeed finite and their regen never gave them that, but the show has consistently shown them regen even when tired, but apparently one statement that is debunked by the whole series is enough for you, gotta question that logic

 

[Mister6ame6]

....
Nero....pre-awakening....regen?
..........Excuse me?

I dunno if you missed or ignored, but Nero regenerated after being melted years before DMC5

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Stop asking for better examples if this amount of proof apparently isn't worth your atention, which is odd, you did the thread because you want proof, and yet pretend not seeing them

I did see them, it's just contradicted. Some demons just...seem to have pretty bad regen. And all your proof is kinda denied by the fact that Beowulf has been hurt 3 times before, by 3 different people and he still cannot regen. He could not regen a single god damn eye ever since the old days. He could not regen his other eye by dante. He could not regen his head from being cut by Vergil. So yeah, all that proof...it's kind of useless if these guy is kinda notorious for having shit regen directly contradicting that regen scaling because of superior demons.

He healed from Nero's cut, he took his time looking what Nero had done, indeed, since for Urizen Nero didn't had the power to do that, why would that change something ? He casually healed and kept fighting, yet couldn't heal from Dante

That was a single graze he got before even beginning to fight Nero (in the literal meaning of the word). Ofc he would regen, still took him quite a hot minute to do that compared how notoriously fast these guys are known for regening.

Urizen and Vergil are not the same person, V is his human side that also has some demonc power and his memories, of course you don't know this, but humanity in DMC isn't powerless, want more proof then Urizen losing against Dante, while Vergil didn't ? Nico's Reports also said when fusing, his weakened days were over, and he reached his full potential after that

That's kind of a bad point considering the one with the demonic blood (which according to you is the only reason for regen) is just Urizen. So whether he gets a human half or stays fully demon, in terms of demon physiology he doesn't change. So he should have the same if not better regen than normal vergil. Your argument here relies on AP when you yourself proved that regen doesn't come from AP.

I believe we saw Dante being stabbed multiple times and his clothes were intact, they just don't change his model in game just for that.

Yes, that actually helps what im saying. Hell, in the very first seconds of that video, we have Dante getting stabbed by Vergil's Yamato, falls to the ground, we see nothing on his clothes OR stomach, in other words by that logic we see no wound, but he clearly keeps bleeding as shown in the ground. So that moment alone is a good example of "we don't see it" doesn't mean "it's not there". Another example in that same video is at 2:00, Dante falls back to the ground after awakening his DT, we see no wound on his chest, when he falls to the ground he keeps on bleeding.

let's also guess that the author was smoking bananas aswell ? You seriously based your point in "nah, the author didn't considered", talk about some lazy authors considering we have MULTIPLE feats and statements on diferent media

I mean do we assume the author was smoking bananas when he said that they are wounded then? That argument goes both ways. You have multiple statments of their regen existing in the first place, not that it can't be taxed if hurt over and over, this statement doesn't exist, however statement of the opposite does exist. Hell, if i really wanted to i could argue to you that Dante being in a coma for a month in DMC5 is actually proof of that, since because of how knockouts work. There is Griffon being amazed at the fact that Dante is still alive even though Urizen has nothing to actually put down someone with that level of regen. Griffon being afraid that V was gonna kill dante by stabbing his head. Vergil and Dante stating that they were gonna "finish it" before being stopped by Nero, despite vergil having nothing that would put Dante down for good if the regen worked at 100% all the time. Etc etc etc.

I dunno if you missed or ignored, but Nero regenerated after being melted years before DMC5

I honestly don't know whether i should laugh or cry at the fact that you are arguing that over a weird statement despite the fact that Nero was the same guy who could not heal a single god damn arm throughout DMC5.

 

[Sevil Natas]

2) He is already a demon dude, nothing can happen to him even if he doesn't resist. Im talking about the demon world's effects of turning ppl into demons they do not effect demons cus they are technically speaking already affected. The disease and shit that's....fine? But considering Dante did get affected why is that resistance in the first place.
3) You keep bringing these flawed ass examples not understanding how bad they are. This is not about gravity or toxicity, this is about turning people into demons. If the earth turned everyone into a human, would you say Humans are resistant? No, cus you are already a human, you already are what the world is trying to make you. And Tony was not affected by this, nor were the demons, they had other effects put on them, the demons didn't have their soul become demon, nor did they have their body turn into a monster cus they already are demons. Stop using feats of the aliments the demon world induces to scale to soul and corruption.

did you forget that dante is also half human? yes it would affect him since he's not a full demon. the demon world turns people into full demons not hybrids iirc. there's no reason for it to not affect hybrids.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

did you forget that dante is also half human? yes it would affect him since he's not a full demon. the demon world turns people into full demons not hybrids iirc. there's no reason for it to not affect hybrids.

I explained in the OP why Dante counts as a Demon despite all this.

 

[Mister6ame6]

I did see them, it's just contradicted. Some demons just...seem to have pretty bad regen. And all your proof is kinda denied by the fact that Beowulf has been hurt 3 times before, by 3 different people and he still cannot regen. He could not regen a single god damn eye ever since the old days. He could not regen his other eye by dante. He could not regen his head from being cut by Vergil. So yeah, all that proof...it's kind of useless if these guy is kinda notorious for having shit regen directly contradicting that regen scaling because of superior demons.

Is not contradicted, you fall to knowledge that regeneration negation exist and our statements by the other hand is prethy contradicted by the scans that you like to ignore

I honestly don't know whether i should laugh or cry at the fact that you are arguing that over a weird statement despite the fact that Nero was the same guy who could not heal a single god damn arm throughout DMC5.

Here Savior statement that he can melt bodies and Nero not heal his arm is because Vergil has regeneration negation

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Is not contradicted, you fall to knowledge that regeneration negation exist and our statements by the other hand is prethy contradicted by the scans that you like to ignore

At this point might as well give everyone and their grandmother new abilities so that we don't run into any sort of trouble huh? That's not exactly the way these things go.

Here Savior statement that he can melt bodies and Nero not heal his arm is because Vergil has regeneration negation

That's not what the statement says, it says he's made up of "demonic matter and spirit melded together", not that he melts people. It's like saying bronze can melt people because it's made up of copper and tin melded together. And no, that's not true. First of all, vergil didn't even hit him, his arm detached from the force of the throw. Second of all, vergil clearly doesn't have that cus Nero did regen that same arm later after he got his true DT and really started regenerating.

 

[Sevil Natas]

I explained in the OP why Dante counts as a Demon despite all this.

execpt he kinda isnt a full demon? that contradicts the whole lore. why would chen referring to dante once as a demon protect his human side from the demon world? the air itself corrupts humans. with dante still having human blood inside there's no reason for the air to ignore it. unless you're saying that the air is sentient and only goes for whoever is not arbitrarily considered a "demon" by some mob boss / a statue. also pretty sure in the scan its stated that the air turns people into monsters or "creatures" not demons

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He is not a full demon, it's just that being half demon is enough to be considered a "demon" as proved by chen. He does not count as a human which would get transformed.

As for that scan....are you saying that "creature" is not a demon? I hope you aren't.

 

[Mister6ame6]

At this point might as well give everyone and their grandmother new abilities so that we don't run into any sort of trouble huh? That's not exactly the way these things go.

The only ones that negated Bewoulf regen are Sparda (God Tier of the verse), Dante (one of the strongest of the verse) and Vergil (equal to Dante and have Yamato that can cut dimensions) so i fall to see the problem here and the scans don't contradict demons having regen

That's not what the statement says, it says he's made up of "demonic matter and spirit melded together", not that he melts people. It's like saying bronze can melt people because it's made up of copper and tin melded together. And no, that's not true. First of all, vergil didn't even hit him, his arm detached from the force of the throw. Second of all, vergil clearly doesn't have that cus Nero did regen that same arm later after he got his true DT and really started regenerating.

This one should be better to you understand and like i said, Nero can regen after being melted and the fact that Nero can't regen after Vergil did count was regen negation

 

[Lightning_XXI]

"I did see them, it's just contradicted. Some demons just...seem to have pretty bad regen. And all your proof is kinda denied by the fact that Beowulf has been hurt 3 times before, by 3 different people and he still cannot regen. He could not regen a single god damn eye ever since the old days. He could not regen his other eye by dante. He could not regen his head from being cut by Vergil. So yeah, all that proof...it's kind of useless if these guy is kinda notorious for having shit regen directly contradicting that regen scaling because of superior demons."

We only saw Beowulf fight three people: Sparda, Dante and Vergil (I'll let you guess what is their relation), you want to simply ignore obvious scalling and examples of multiple demons having high level regeneration because "Beowulf never showed it", Dante cutted one of his eyes and he didn't regenerated, the same Dante who negged multiple demon's regen in the series, Sparda, the man who Dante inherited his powers and Vergil, which is the same case, those "different people" have a lot in common if you ask me, and Beowulf only fought them in the series, we never saw anything beyond that, how that nukes his regeneration ? Lore says demons in general have thanks to their physiology (and there is more), it's like you completely forgot that there is an ability called Regeneration Negation

That was a single graze he got before even beginning to fight Nero (in the literal meaning of the word). Ofc he would regen, still took him quite a hot minute to do that compared how notoriously fast these guys are known for regening.

I know he took his time, what I understand is why is that any relevant ? Not all demons have shown instant regen in the series, only Dante and his family, which Urizen isn't quite part of. Sid took his time, Alice took her time, the list goes on

That's kind of a bad point considering the one with the demonic blood (which according to you is the only reason for regen) is just Urizen. So whether he gets a human half or stays fully demon, in terms of demon physiology he doesn't change. So he should have the same if not better regen than normal vergil. Your argument here relies on AP when you yourself proved that regen doesn't come from AP.

According to me, it's ONE of the reasons, there are others aka their magic power as you can see here, now I know what you might thinking, if it's related to magic, then it's possible to nerf their healing, however like I said and showed, magic is one of their ways, physiology also plays there and keep them having impressive regenerative abilities even when completely tired like all those scans (that I linked here) show. Also, their magic supply isn't related to their physical stamina, being tired doesn't mean being out of his own power, as explained by DMC1 Official Guide, demons have their power/magic supply filled by inflicting pain and receiving pain, since pain is the main thing in the Demon World, basically a Lore explanation to how the DT gauge works, so being defeated, stomped and even attacking their opponents is giving them the magic used for regenerative abilities

I mean do we assume the author was smoking bananas when he said that they are wounded then? That argument goes both ways.

By one single statement debunked by all the feats in the whole series ? I don't think so

You have multiple statments of their regen existing in the first place, not that it can't be taxed if hurt over and over, this statement doesn't exist, however statement of the opposite does exist.

Too bad I showed you above, also we have feats proving that, but apparently only statements work ? Gotta question that logic...again

Hell, if i really wanted to i could argue to you that Dante being in a coma for a month in DMC5 is actually proof of that, since because of how knockouts work.

Yes, because Griffon knows exactly what Urizen (a completely new demon known by anyone in terms of power) is capable of, even V was surprised by his power, also knockouts are ignored by basically all of fiction with rare exceptions

Griffon being afraid that V was gonna kill dante by stabbing his head.

Stabbing his head by...Devil Sword Sparda ? The sword that has Sparda's powers ? The guy who neged Beowulf's regen ? Sure Griffon doesn't know everything, that sword is the most OP sword to ever appear until Devil Sword Dante, Griffon being afraid is also expected, btw, moments after he saw Dante stabbing himself and was freaking out, despite Dante and multiple other demons having regen enough for a simple stab, using this dramatic plot moments as "proof" for something shows how desperate you are, what's next ? Dante dying on gameplay being proof of no regen ?

Vergil and Dante stating that they were gonna "finish it" before being stopped by Nero, despite vergil having nothing that would put Dante down for good if the regen worked at 100% all the time. Etc etc etc.

Yeah Dante and Vergil who already negged regen before, curious huh ?

Yes, that actually helps what im saying. Hell, in the very first seconds of that video, we have Dante getting stabbed by Vergil's Yamato, falls to the ground, we see nothing on his clothes OR stomach, in other words by that logic we see no wound, but he clearly keeps bleeding as shown in the ground. So that moment alone is a good example of "we don't see it" doesn't mean "it's not there". Another example in that same video is at 2:00, Dante falls back to the ground after awakening his DT, we see no wound on his chest, when he falls to the ground he keeps on bleeding.

I mean, I hope you don't expect that healing a wound means the blood you lost disappears right ? Dante lost blood in the stab, lost blood when Vergil cut his arm, lost blood when Rebellion stabbed him, and he had some on his body in it when he fell to the ground. Also I believe you misunderstood me, I'm talking about his CLOTHES, not his wounds, we indeed don't see a wound there or in other game, DMC 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, this last one with much better graphics.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

That's not what the statement says, it says he's made up of "demonic matter and spirit melded together", not that he melts people. It's like saying bronze can melt people because it's made up of copper and tin melded together. And no, that's not true. First of all, vergil didn't even hit him, his arm detached from the force of the throw. Second of all, vergil clearly doesn't have that cus Nero did regen that same arm later after he got his true DT and really started regenerating.

However Sanctus in game does says he would melt Dante, but he choose to melt Nero since he have the blood of sparda and he is defeated at the moment.
Even the novel deadly fortune (DMC 4 novel) says Nero was melted.

Nero without Yamato cant acess his powers, making him weak in regen by consequence (hell even the game states he needs yamato to unleash his power), interresting too, the moment Nero gets yamato he regens his wounds after being revived in a instant and also regenerated after being melted in the MOMENT yamato went closer into him.

 

[Sevil Natas]

He is not a full demon, it's just that being half demon is enough to be considered a "demon" as proved by chen. He does not count as a human which would get transformed.

As for that scan....are you saying that "creature" is not a demon? I hope you aren't.

first of all why would chen referring to dante as a "demon" somehow makes the air not affect his human side? you kinda ignored my point there. the air doesnt care about what counts as demon and what doesnt. it just corrupts humans' flesh & mind thats it. another proof of them having resistence is V. he's the human side of vergil, and he didnt get affected by demonic air. he should just count as a human yet he didnt get affected. and there's no reason for his resistance to suddenly have vanished when he fused back into Vergil. the same should be true for Dante and other hybrids.
second. though they are considered demons, they're techincally not like other demons not one bit. they seem to be mindless ants whose phisology differ from other demons. not to mention that demons have different species and considering how the higher tier demons dont turn into mindless creatures they should be naturaly resistent to it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

The only ones that negated Bewoulf regen are Sparda (God Tier of the verse), Dante (one of the strongest of the verse) and Vergil (equal to Dante and have Yamato that can cut dimensions) so i fall to see the problem here and the scans don't contradict demons having regen

Except no, because we see other people regen from hits from these guys.

This one should be better to you understand and like i said, Nero can regen after being melted and the fact that Nero can't regen after Vergil did count was regen negation

That's just absorption, he was in the heart or whatever that was of the Savior and he was clearly still physically ok in there. Absorption doesn't mean melt, he just had him in the body to extract power from him. Similar reason to why Kyrie was similarly inside of the savior but was still physically ok not melted.

@Dante_Demon_Killah
Same argument as Mister6ame, we see other people regen from hits from these guys, so it's not really regen negation.

Oh took his time? Well by your logic it should have been instant. Urizen is laughably above DMC3 Dante, so with your wonky scaling his regen should have been much better too. You're being picky with these now. First you scale any demon who's stronger to regen, but now demons who are stronger than DMC3 dante are allowed to have much worse regen than his?

That scan just showed demons having "magic" (demonic power), not that it's related to their healing ability, making the rest of the paragraph pretty much null, since in that all you just assumed it to be true even though the scan mentions no relation between magic and regen.

2 statements. Not 1.

Hell, if i really wanted to i could argue to you that Dante being in a coma for a month in DMC5 is actually proof of that, since because of how knockouts work.

Yes, because Griffon knows exactly what Urizen (a completely new demon known by anyone in terms of power) is capable of, even V was surprised by his power, also knockouts are ignored by basically all of fiction with rare exceptions

Where did i mention griffin in that quote....?

Stabbing his head by...Devil Sword Sparda ? The sword that has Sparda's powers ? The guy who neged Beowulf's regen ?

Bad argument. Rebellion and Yamato also have sparda's power, however we see that regening from them is possible.

moments after he saw Dante stabbing himself and was freaking out, despite Dante and multiple other demons having regen enough for a simple stab, using this dramatic plot moments as "proof" for something shows how desperate you are

Griffon is also a demon and would know that. And you are misunderstanding that entire scene to use it as an argument. Griffon was freaking out cus the guy was stabbing himself before fighting Urizen, he needs to gain power at that moment not stab himself for no reason, which is what griffon even says, that they have to deal with urizen first then "making the you can kill yourself later" joke. So you taking scenes i never even mentioned shows your desperation at being unable to give answers to these. Considering as i said Griffon being a pretty strong demon and would obviously know that people of Dante's caliber wouldn't die from that.

Yeah Dante and Vergil who already negged regen before, curious huh ?

Yeah....never on themselves. All that "negged regen before" was never used on a character we have seen clearly regen mid fight, like themselves. And any form of damage is only left for the very end of a fight, after taking dozens if not hundreds of blows they would have to regenerate from. Curious indeed.

Dante lost blood in the stab, lost blood when Vergil cut his arm, lost blood when Rebellion stabbed him, and he had some on his body in it when he fell to the ground.

He had regenerated by the time he hit the ground and there was no blood on the ground beforehand. Also you missed the scene at 2:00 can you give an answer to that please?

Also I believe you misunderstood me, I'm talking about his CLOTHES

Clothes not being ripped is just a game choice, you wouldn't want to see Dante and Vergil naked by the end of the fight would you?

we indeed don't see a wound there or in other game, DMC 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5, this last one with much better graphics.

We don't see a wound, but he bleeds after falling to the ground. The ground was clean before he fell, so there was no previous blood there, there was no wound when he fell, he just kept bleeding. Clearly implying he was wounded and had not regenerated all of it even though we do not see a wound. We do not see it, but it's clearly there.

@EFÍTÉ
Your points are the same as these guys with the exception of that revival thing. When you revive you obviously revive without wounds.You wouldn't reivive if you aren't healed.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Can I get a summary of what's being contested?

 

[Firephoenixearl]

A lot right now. You'd have to read.

 

[Theglassman12]

Can you give a TL;DR? Saying we'd have to read isn't really helping here.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Im not saying that to be a jerk though. I legit mean a lot is being contested right now. Especially the regeneration.

 

[Theglassman12]

Then give us the TL;DR of the arguments of both sides, then we can come to a conclusion. Does that sound fair?

 

[Mister6ame6]

Except no, because we see other people regen from hits from these guys.

Scans

That's just absorption, he was in the heart or whatever that was of the Savior and he was clearly still physically ok in there. Absorption doesn't mean melt, he just had him in the body to extract power from him. Similar reason to why Kyrie was similarly inside of the savior but was still physically ok not melted.

He was absorbed inside the Savior and than was melted the novel made pretty clear what happen to him

Clothes not being ripped is just a game choice, you wouldn't want to see Dante and Vergil naked by the end of the fight would you?

Bad argument and even kid Vergil has feats of regeneration without his regen being affected and the same against Mundus