- 8,629
- 2,744
I know that people hate DMC but damn even G1 did a better job than this and they cropped scans and ignored others
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Devil May Cry: Downgrade's Awakening (Yes, from Tier 1)
- Thread starter ShadowWhoWalks
- Start date
-
- Tags
- devil may cry
- Status
- 17,771
- 17,285
@ShadowWhoWalks Forgot to add me to disagree.
- 6,127
- 4,208
Oliver_de_jesus
He/Him- 23,383
- 17,075
In any case, as Tony and the others have said, I disagree
- 567
- 159
- 1,566
- 398
sth sth,hell vanguard isn't fodder ...,yeah gonna disagree,not only you doesn't know anything about dmc,but said hell vanguard can even fodder demon king is a big oof to me
Rakih_Elyan
He/Him- 3,964
- 2,776
Anyone who disagreed with this thread should be counted.
- 2,053
- 2,292
Disagree FRA via Tony's reasons.
- 10,172
- 3,775
if you add story telling and planks vote, then we're even (almost)
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #93
1- Stage of separation from Demon World (Black Horned Demon God and Sparda)
2- Stage of splitting the world in half after separation (light)
The light did not do shit in 1, but it sure did in 2.
So you now consider PoC scans nothing?
She can argue herself.
Only the same if the context supports it. From what I see, your only recourse is to attempt to dismiss the light splitting scan, without any meaningful effort at reconciliation.
The same scan from Kamiya is being used in Mundus' profile, and referenced as "Official tweets from Hideki Kamiya". So I guess we currently accept his tweets for DMC1.
So a strawman, nice.
How would separating a tiny speck of light in endless darkness have anything to do with splitting the world in half?
Let me ask you this question:
Did the light eventually split the world in half in an unknown timeframe after separation?
1- Yes
2- No
3- Maybe
It has been affirmed by multiple staff that yes, whether endless means literally infinite is context driven:
So no, we currently do not automatically use the dictionary meaning while ignoring context.
Ah, so taking explicit statements ignoring context leads to absurdities. That is my point. I am not unironically scaling fodders to god tiers.
Likewise, we know that Hell Vanguards don't literally manage all dead souls, only some of them (for example, the souls of sinners are managed by different demons).
Can you prove that this chaos is the same as "Primordial Chaos" or the "original chaos"?
We know from the boundary stone scan that the power of the "original chaos" is distinct.
Let's go with your headcanon, where the statement would be:
| Until the first light split the world in half, such stones were nowhere to be found [by humans]. |
They don't need to look for stones, they just need to encounter them to find them. Your scenario is implausible.
- 32,811
- 38,013
You might want to read my arguments in that thread buddy, because that's not the conclusion that took place there.
If it's in reference to explaining a size of an object, it's concrete infinite.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #95
As a side effect to the separation of the Demon World and Human World, the light split the world in half.
You will have to reconcile with how a supposedly finite construct split an infinite construct in half.
You are adding qualifiers that doesn't exist in the scan. 'Mirror that reflects this world' doesn't give us much to work with without high-end speculations.
It can be an instance of time manipulation within a single space-time.
Are there any other realms you are arguing he is expected to conquer in order to complete his conquest of the universe?
- 8,629
- 2,744
This is going in circles and you keep using the same scan for increasingly worse arguments. I see no need to continue.
- 6,127
- 4,208
Don't worry, I'll pick up the load in a short time. You can rest.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #98
Do you need to hacksaw statements? The boundary stones are what have the power of the original chaos; they are not the one being split.
| Until the first light split the world in half, such stones were nowhere to be found. They are full of the power of the original chaos, but now they are becoming increasingly rare. |
No, I assume that the light = human world, as I made it clear in my OP's disclaimers and throughout my OP.
Feel free to explain the contradiction instead of alluding to it.
1- Demon World and Human World are split by Pluto/Sparda.
2- As a side-effect of the separation, the light managed to grow large enough to accomplish the feat of splitting the world in half.
#1 alone is not capable of causing the Human World to split a supposedly infinite darkness in half.
Whether these statements means true infinite depends on the context:
That single scan provides immense context. Just like that one 9D scan provides immense context.
- 15,802
- 5,718
Disagree FRA.
- 32,811
- 38,013
No, Pluto did.
Same way 3D beings have 4D power and cause 4D damage.
IDK chief, seems concrete to me as can be, sounds like you're just nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking.
Burden of proof is on you to show that it's an instance of time manip within a single space-time, because all the current scans of evidence proving HW and DW to be separate space-time continuums explicitly claim otherwise.
The universe is in explicit reference to the Human World, brother. Common sense should dictate this.
- 32,811
- 38,013
I'll tell you what context:
WITH REGARDS TO THE DESCRIPTION OF THE SIZE OF AN OBJECT. That's it. That's the ******* context.
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara
She/Her- 9,370
- 10,923
Can someone remind me what the relevance of the Hell Vanguard scaling is in a thread about the cosmology?
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #104
Can I use those two conclusions?
| No, countless = 2-B. Endless can very well mean 2-A if the context is there for it. Endless is more solid than Countless as a whole. |
| It says "endless"/"limitless"/"infinite" with regards to universe size or universe number count in big words? Cool, High 3-A universe or 2-A multiverse, unless contradictions pop up. End of story. What's there to clarify here anymore? |
In which case, it would not be concrete infinite due to contradiction with new PoC context.
- 10,172
- 3,775
You're still using that poc scan against a bunch of supporting scans
...
- 32,811
- 38,013
No chief, that PoC context does nothing against the "endless darkness" statement, period.
You're using that PoC scan like it means something. It doesn't, especially if you read the manga. That Chaos Stone scan is explicitly referring to the chain of events as a whole that led to the HW and DW being made, and you're ignoring that specific bit of storytelling for reasons that may forever be unknown to me.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #107
Wouldn't this interpretation mean that the appearance of a thin ray/line of light managed to split literally infinite darkness that engulfs it in half?
If so then this would be impossible, and therefore contradictory.
I am not ignoring the chain of events, but asking for the lore of the light splitting the world in half to be acknowledged, and not to ignore what the scan says on the basis that it is wrong as others argued.
- 6,127
- 4,208
Okay let's acknowledge it.
What do we get?? 1C AP for Human World for splitting a 1C realm in half. I don't know if it's enough for making a profile tho.
Happy?
- 32,811
- 38,013
What? Where the hell did you get that notion?
Simple, that "light splitting the world" is just an oversimplification of the real chain of events to not slog out the Stone description so that it can get straight down to the point about what it really wants to describe: THE STONES. Can't believe you'd seriously overcomplicate something as simple as this.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #110
It would be fine if we had conclusive evidence that the Human World is infinite.
Without it, then this is heavily inflating the rating based on speculation.
- 290
- 152
Firstly you just referring to the same poc scan as I said I want to see other scans that mention the same thing secondly the light is the human world
Yea because you are so catching on that one contradicting statement over many other sources that say otherwise in the franchise then it won't be too hard
You literally said it yourself "mirror that reflects this world" so it's basically a reflection of said world which is the human world
Then provie it. Give me scans and evidence that it's a time manipulation on that scsle since all what are you using is speculation and assumption
And what do you think so? the scan itself explains it as you're telling me it's both the demon realm and the human realm without breaking it down and explaining why it's the case as I have explained why it's only referring to the human world but your counter argument was only saying it's both the human world and the demon world and that's it but I will explain it one last time and I want an actual counter argument
The scan explains how mundus raised into power and have ruled the underworld but it states that sparda had to stop mundus from conquering the universe and here the thing sparda after awakening to justice no longer care what happens to the demon realm or how they get ruled so if the scan actually refers to both realms that then should have named it "stopping the the dark emperor from attempting to conquer the human world" because in your logic that means that sparda cares about the other half the demon world which doesn't make sense narratively because he abandoned them and doesn't give a single damb about them and they could also have said "half of the universe" because mundus was already ruling over the demon realm when that statement was made so contextually,narratively and grammatically that argument of yours doesn't make sense
Last edited:
- 32,811
- 38,013
Sure, let's just ignore all the 3D characters with higher-D power ******* up higher-D realms in fiction then. That's literally a majority of Tier 2 feats ever where the characters themselves aren't 4-D but have 4-D timeline-busting power. Doesn't even need to be limited to Tier 2 honestly, this goes for Tier 1 as well.
- 6,127
- 4,208
What does size have to do with AP?
Do we not have average human sized characters who have AP far beyond their size?
If you want to cause massive site standard revision to use size as a limiter to AP, be my guest.
- 32,811
- 38,013
I bet that'll go swell.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #115
"HW and DW being made". Description is most compatible when both of them has been made, or the appearance of the Human World merged within the Demon World, which has been described as a ray of light against endless darkness.
A thin line of light being engulfed in infinite darkness isn't compatible with the PoC description.
"Light splitting the world" is plausible oversimplification that doesn't provide new information.
"Light had split the world in half" is a description of something new, and incompatible with current Tier 1 justification.
- 32,811
- 38,013
Way to literally ignore everything I just said, but you do you.
Only when you ignore the real context behind the feat and can't realize that this is an overtly short summary of the full story, yes. But then of course, there's Pluto.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #117
The Human World isn't a sentient entity swinging around and launching ranged attacks. Hence we should expect it to do so via. size.
If we have different explanations, shouldn't we take the simpler ones? Not to mention that the standards of Tier 1 are supposed to be strict, with little room for speculation.
- 32,811
- 38,013
You forgot one crucial element, the Human World's inhabitants.
This isn't how any of this works. Context is always king here. How simple or different the explanations are don't amount to jackshit without context.
But given that you'd ignore all of it anyway, I can understand why you would ask such an asinine question in this thread.
There's no speculation to be had here because everything we need is in the source material itself. You're just nitpicking and cherrypicking just for the hell of it.
- 2,321
- 1,355
- Thread starter
- #119
So the reference in the PoC statement is short.
Are you suggesting that we should expect it to be vague, or that we should expect it to contain errors?
A similar statement could've been made without the 'in half' part, so it isn't a matter of being vague.
Yes Pluto caused the separation, but that alone isn't enough to cause the Human World to split the world in half.
- 6,127
- 4,208
Oh?
Then why do you keep harping on Light splitting Darkness in half? It clearly did perform a feat, sentient or not, as per your arguements. Then it should be Tiered.
You cannot have your cake and eat it too, you say HW split DW in half and simultaneously say this shouldn't be possible and shouldn't be Tiered. That's glaring contradiction in your intent. Which at this point is just coming off as disingenuous.
And we do give non sentient object tiers.
- Status
Similar threads
