Conceptual Soul is back(maybe) [DMC CRT]

[Ang4I00]

So, with the infamous incident of DMC PoC scans, Names are no longer treated as part of the Soul, this CRT tries to change that.

Names are truth to demons, but are only close to their true substance, which is evident by the fact that Demons can still exist without their name, so we conclude that Names are only part of their true form.

What is their form? Soul. Demons are many kinds of evil spirits that possess objects from Human World to exist in a physical state. Arachne is just transformed soul of a human that reached outer crust of Netherworld. It transformed from a Soul of human to a full blown demon with its own name.

Also, we currently accept demons power to be contained within their soul. Names are directly portrayed to contain individuals power, like when Tony changed his name back to Dante and got stronger. Which should solidify that Name is part of a Soul.

So, justifications for Abstract Existence should change slightly, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2) should be added to Demon Physiology as part of abilities that someone gets for manipulating the Soul and(most importantly) those who have Mid-Godly Regeneration will have High-Godly, those who have Low-Godly will have Mid-Godly.

 

[Tanin_iver]

those who have Mid-Godly Regeneration will have High-Godly.

And those who have Low-Godly will turn to Mid Godly.
Also, agree with the CRT's premise.

 

[Ang4I00]

And those who have Low-Godly will turn to Mid Godly.

Wait, why tho?

 

[chosen]

Agreed With names and souls being related to each other

 

[chosen]

And those who have Low-Godly will turn to Mid Godly.
Also, agree with the CRT's premise.

They wouldn't, they have low Godly via complete physical body regen iirc.

 

[Tanin_iver]

Wait, why tho?

When u make Souls Conceptual, it means it will skip from Low to Mid Godly because it is essentially regening from its concept. Its like not having the standard mind and soul parts at all, as they are at the level of the concept or abstraction. And in such cases we tend to index them as Mid Godly, its the same as what we did previously, where Low Tiers had Mid-Godly instead.

EDIT: But it isn't the exact same scenario now iirc. So maybe not. Edit again I am neutral to it. But the case is similar enough

 

[Ang4I00]

When u make Souls Conceptual, it means it will skip from Low to Mid Godly because it is essentially regening from its concept. Its like not having the standard mind and soul parts at all, as they are at the level of the concept or abstraction. And in such cases we tend to index them as Mid Godly, its the same as what we did previously, where Low Tiers had Mid-Godly instead.

If that's the case then yeah, fair

 

[marosuke]

I agree. This also explains about names.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I agree

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'll comment more later, but for now, saying that names and souls both contain a demon's power does not mean the soul contains the name. There is nothing indicating that to be the case.

 

[Ang4I00]

I'll comment more later, but for now, saying that names and souls both contain a demon's power does not mean the soul contains the name. There is nothing indicating that to be the case.

That was more so an supporting evidence though, not an whole argument

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Well, that doesn't change the fact that it's wrong and ought to be removed. Although that's probably a bad look since it IS basically 1/3rd of this entire CRT.

 

[Palito266]

Yeah, I dunno about this one chief

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I think the OP makes sense from a logical standpoint here. Names are something every Demon possess and appears to mold their souls in accordance to it however there is also the reason why a soul could exist even when their Names are removed from existence which implies the soul could also exist on similar level of abstraction as Names themselves exist because both of them do not need each other to exist in one way or another.

This ofcourse would be true assuming we define Names as one's very essence.

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

A G R E E

 

[chosen]

Bump trigger

 

[Ang4I00]

I think the OP makes sense from a logical standpoint here. Names are something every Demon possess and appears to mold their souls in accordance to it however there is also the reason why a soul could exist even when their Names are removed from existence which implies the soul could also exist on similar level of abstraction as Names themselves exist because both of them do not need each other to exist in one way or another.

This ofcourse would be true assuming we define Names as one's very essence.

It molds their physical forms, not souls, souls ARE demons, not just part of them like names are, that's what's CRT is basically about because we currently treat names as demons true form, which is wrong

 

[SuperSonicTL]

It molds their physical forms, not souls, souls ARE demons, not just part of them like names are, that's what's CRT is basically about because we currently treat names as demons true form, which is wrong

Exactly which is why it needs to be dealt with coz its obvious Names aren't treated as their true forms, its just closest to it but not exactly it

 

[Deagonx]

Names are directly portrayed to contain individuals power, like when Tony changed his name back to Dante and got stronger. Which should solidify that Name is part of a Soul.

Nothing in this scan suggests he got stronger.

The rest is still pretty vague. The only scan that really talks about Names with any substance is the first one, and it doesn't explain in enough detail what they are, so I don't think there's a sufficient basis for a change.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I disagree FRA

 

[Ang4I00]

Nothing in this scan suggests he got stronger.

The rest is still pretty vague. The only scan that really talks about Names with any substance is the first one, and it doesn't explain in enough detail what they are, so I don't think there's a sufficient basis for a change.

The fact that he got stronger is already accepted and is mentioned on his profile

We currently treat Names as true form of demons, despite that they still capable of existing with their names being erased, along with the statements that their true form are souls, idk how is that vague, can you explain a bit more?

 

[Deagonx]

We currently treat Names as true form of demons, despite that they still capable of existing with their names being erased,

If they can exist without their names, then names are not their true forms.

The fact that he got stronger is already accepted and is mentioned on his profile

Okay, but the scans being used in the OP don't establish that. Are there scans on his profile that do establish this?

 

[LordGinSama]

The "names" of demons being there true form probably shouldn't be given at much attention given the fact that's also how it works for demons as a whole in real life. The name of a demon is essentially their "true" form and by repeating the name of a demon makes them stronger. This is what I assume the Name thing from DMC stems from, lots of mythology and such have demon names being important.

 

[Deagonx]

The description of names mostly appears that it is strong indicator of their identity and heritage, something very close to them, which is why it is compared to their "true substance." However, the fact that this can just be destroyed somehow without destroying the demons themselves suggests it isn't like some fundamental form beyond their souls or bodies. The mechanism through which a name is destroyed or its consequences are left too vague to draw definitive conclusions about.

 

[chosen]

f they can exist without their names, then names are not their true forms.

Thats what the thread claims, names are only part of their true forms. The point of the thread it's for the names to become a part of demons souls as they are only a part of their true forms not their actual true forms

 

[Deagonx]

Thats what the thread claims, names are only part of their true forms.

The evidence doesn't establish this. It doesn't address a notion of a "true form" nor does it say that names are "part" of it.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

The evidence doesn't establish this. It doesn't address a notion of a "true form" nor does it say that names are "part" of it.

Names are "closest" to their true forms. The thread in this case wanna solidify what their true forms could be if Names are not. From the common interpretation, Names appears to represent their power (kinda like Bleach) and them existing without it could only mean their true forms are beyond concepts like Names but we interpret it as their true forms should be their soul (afterall we define a demon's existence as their entire soul).

 

[Deagonx]

The thread in this case wanna solidify what their true forms could be if Names are not

We can't really solidify that if the verse never specified.

Names appears to represent their power (kinda like Bleach)

That doesn't appear to be established in any of the scans. It seems more like their identity.

and them existing without it could only mean their true forms are beyond concepts like Names

Or... that names are just an aspect of identity and not an ontological constituent.

 

[chosen]

We can't really solidify that if the verse never specified.


That doesn't appear to be established in any of the scans. It seems more like their identity.



Or... that names are just an aspect of identity and not an ontological constituent.

more scans for that

Arkham sayinh nameless demons can't even move as they wish. I think there is also a statament that goatling are named that way to not get jnholy powers but need to find.

 

[Ang4I00]

I think there is also a statament that goatling are named that way to not get jnholy powers but need to find.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

We can't really solidify that if the verse never specified.

From a logical standpoint, we have to go with chances in this case coz Names and Souls are directly connected to one another and they both need eachother to fully function except Souls could exist and have their memories with it even when Names are removed soo they atleast obviously should be existing on same metaphysical abstract scale as Names themselves.

That doesn't appear to be established in any of the scans. It seems more like their identity.

There is literally a Demon who was gaining unholy power by getting his Name repeated therefore they are started to be called "Goatlings" instead.

Or... that names are just an aspect of identity and not an ontological constituent.

Not really given how much importance it holds for Demons. Without it, they are formless souls with barely having consciousness.

 

[Deagonx]

From a logical standpoint, we have to go with chances in this case coz Names and Souls are directly connected to one another

I haven't seen anything discussing names and souls in tandem in the way that you're describing.

The additional scans give more context, but ultimately it's still really vague. It's clear the demons really want names, but the mechanics of this are still very much left to the imagination. I do see the connection between names and power now, but I don't see the rationale for increasing their regen.

 

[chosen]

I haven't seen anything discussing names and souls in tandem in the way that you're describing.

The additional scans give more context, but ultimately it's still really vague. It's clear the demons really want names, but the mechanics of this are still very much left to the imagination. I do see the connection between names and power now, but I don't see the rationale for increasing their regen.

The regen it's getting increased cuz their mid godly is based om being able to regen their souls and if souls having names gets accepted that means they will also end uo being able to regen from name destruction

 

[Deagonx]

I haven't seen anything saying souls have names. Also, it seems to be very concrete that demons cannot regen from name destruction, which is why they've been waiting 2000 years for someone to return their names.

 

[chosen]

I haven't seen anything saying souls have names. Also, it seems to be very concrete that demons cannot regen from name destruction, which is why they've been waiting 2000 years for someone to return their names.

The randoms demons don't have soul regen im the profiles. It's for people like Dante vergil or nero

 

[Deagonx]

Right but nothing suggests Dante can "regen" his name if it were removed for some reason. I'm not seeing where it gets a higher level of regen than is already present.

 

[chosen]

Right but nothing suggests Dante can "regen" his name if it were removed for some reason. I'm not seeing where it gets a higher level of regen than is already present.

It will only get upgraded if names being part of souls gets accepted. Otherwise stay mid godly

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I won't lie, the power system is kinda weird here coz we admit that Demons get power through Demonic Energy but they also get power through Names. From what i get, it seems Names are what produces specific Demon Energy for a character. Anyway, aside of these there are instances where absorption will give the absorbed soul's power like when how Baul stated that he will get Sparda's power when he absorbs Dante's soul which is why Names being part of Souls makes sense atleast in this case if Names represents their power as well as their essence and absorption of Souls will lead to empowerment of the one's who absorbed the soul.

 

[chosen]

Sin bump trigger

 

[chosen]

Bump