Devil May Cry: Downgrade's Awakening (Yes, from Tier 1)

[Hellscream]

man.. a single 9-D statement is not proof for the 10th time

 

[Planck69]

I never said it's the only way.
a single 9-D statement and the mention of a "higher dimension" are not proof in any way shape or form to qualify for tier 1

If we have knowledge that the dimensions in the setting are generally large and extend throughout an entire cosmological structure then yeah, it is.

"He destroyed a 29-dimensional pocket world" in the sense of spatiotemporal axes is a 1-B statement, as is.

 

[Robo432343]

man.. a single 9-D statement is not proof for the 10th time

only if you wanna keep ignoring all the context behind it
then sure

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

Just close the thread

 

[KLOL506]

man.. a single 9-D statement is not proof for the 10th time

laughs in Tier 1 Transformers with membranes and 17-21 dimensions

 

[Robo432343]

 

[Robo432343]

@Hellscream oh i found a good doc that basically explains everything about 9D DMC

9d DMC

It is noted in Peak of Combat that there is a higher dimension from which souls originate from, which is most likely located within/is the Demon World. The evidence for that is the following: V saying return to the underworld to demons he's about to kill Human souls going to hell (the demon wor...

docs.google.com

this might help you understand everything

 

[ImmortalDread]

There is also an anime where it is stated to have 23 dimensions and got accepted in vsbw, since there is context behind it.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

I'm going to be blunt, you're taking that PoC scan to mean something it doesn't mean, and you've gone completely off-course.

This will clarify a potential alternative interpretation argued by Gilver and you, and is beneficial to clarify the site's standards going forward. This is not a request for long-term participation, but a brief clarification. So you categorically refuse to tag?

And you've not answered the man's main questions.

There are no question marks in his paragraphs, but an argument and then a counter argument by me. Though if I missed them I would appreciate listing them and I will answer to the best of my ability.

It's a figure of speech in essence that it's a super-shortened version of the real deal.

Nah, out of the question. Those statements are literal as can be because they're explicitly referring to the DW's size.

It would be a super inaccurate figure of speech at best. Wouldn't it be better and shorter from your perspective if it didn't mention "in half"?
There is nothing 'split in half' about an infinitesimal object against an infinite environment, in either the light's creation or Pluto's separation.

Endless statements always explicitly refer to the size of something, but they are often figures of speech to mean uncountably large. So It wouldn't follow that they are automatically literal due to referring to size; as you said we can take them literally as long as there is no contradiction, but it seems a big apparent contradiction is no big deal.

---

So going over this thread, a lot of it amounts to speculation and Headcanon.

The Tier 1 position also has speculation which I highlighted. Which means that it is unwaranted.

The Original Chaos/World is not the Primordial Chaos/World, according to you, despite the fact they describe the same thing and the Original World is what came before the split, which is why Arius said that the HW merging with the DW is “reverting it to the original state, everything that once belonged to the Demons will be so again!”

Nope, original chaos = primordial chaos, to me.

I am asking for evidence that the non-original chaos in the Demon World is equivalent.

The Demon World merging with the Human World is indeed a previous state.
Thanks to PoC lore, we know that there is an even prior state called Primordial Chaos which created the Demon World which pre-existing demons don't form without.

The first light isn’t referring to the birth of the universe, according to you, but the “light” of the Original Chaos IS the universe, thus the “FIRST LIGHT,” must mean that it is the START of it.

The first light is the Human World; it was all a world of darkness prior after all.
Was the original chaos ever described as a light? If so, then enlighten us with evidence.

We know the birth of the Demon World and Human World. The Human World is no position to split the world in half due to being infentisimal.

This is also contradicted by other things in your thread, like saying the HW split the DW in half, but didn’t get separated. That would mean, then, it’s referring to the birth of the Universe. Yet you say no.

The birth of the universe didn't involve splitting in half if it is a literal infinite darkness. If the other half is overtaken then no additional separations are required.

You say you’re accounting for Pluto, but ignoring how it never refers to Pluto when referencing the split. And this IS the splitting of the Human World from the Demon World, as it literally clarified these Stones (which only formed from the split of the Worlds), have the power of the Original Chaos.

I was not the first to bring up Pluto regarding boundary stones; just clarifying that there is no conflict with Pluto's story and the statement.

You say the 5-7 statements are outlier, and the one statement is what we should be listening to, but that’s not how outliers work. Outliers are data that are unnatural/inconsistent with the data set. The “half,” IS what is inconsistent, not the 5-7 Statements. To say otherwise is a faulty interpretation. Headcanon,

By your definition the 9D statement is an outlier. They need to have a component of irreconcilability by the wiki's definition (so true outliers are rare).

We need to make effort to reconcile.
So we either consider multiple common figure of speech statements which will yield 1-C if taken literally as figure or speech, or we consider a unique statement figure of speech to avoid a 2-C rating.
The burden of proof is heavily in favor of what would yield 2-C instead of 1-C.

You say that we have no definitive proof that the Souls end in the DW, but we have several scans, from the Sins, to the Vanguard, to even other entries that re-contexualized by the Vanguard and Sins statements, like Malphas, Sargasso, etc. That instead the Souls end up in the Primordial Chaos. But the Primordial Chaos doesn’t exist. It’s the Worlds conjoined. Thus, Souls would go nowhere. Secondly, the DMC3 Manga says the Primordial Chaos (The Darkness) became the home of Demons, so that doesn’t make sense anyway. And lastly, to assume they go anywhere after their automatic travel to the Demon Realm is Headcanon. There’s no substantial evidence to say they go anywhere after the Demon Realm, because Souls have, since DMC3, historically gone to the Demon Realm after death. Supposedly, you’ve accounted for that.

I said proof for ALL human souls; much more people probably die daily to things unrelated to demons in the DMC world.

1- Demons are spawned by the Primordial Chaos that precedes reality and the creation of the Demon World
2- Demons are formed in the Demon World

So before the world was not conjoined, there were no demons that got formed?

Primordial chaos is introduced in PoC. It is distinct from regular chaos due to the boundary stone statement of 'power of original chaos'.
The manga just says that the Demon World is a crucible of chaos, and we have to speculate on whether this is equivalent to the power of the original/primordial chaos.

We know that the souls of demons, sinners, and those killed by specific demons go to the Demon World for sure after death.
The vast majority of humans who don't die due to demons are a ambiguous, but per PoC the souls go to the higher dimensional realm that originates them, in other words Primordial Chaos (which turns out still exists).

Except all of your arguments rely on ignoring evidence, calling the majority evidence outliers compared to an actual outlier, regarding the statements on Soul travel to the Underworld as invalid, and making you extraneous explanations to things we already have the answer to with empirical evidence by using a data set that only indirectly contradicts established lore, and then saying that all the ways this doesn’t make sense is us trying to not reconcile the data, when in reality it’s called looking at evidence and picking the consistent option that needs less assumptions.

Tier 1 from Tier 2-C should require a very high standard of evidence, when the justification of Tier 1 DMC requires generous assumptions and speculations.

 

[KLOL506]

There is also an anime where it is stated to have 23 dimensions and got accepted in vsbw, since there is context behind it.

TTGL comes to mind as well, as well as the terrible downgrade thread against it.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

To summarize this shit.

* OP whole ass argument relies on one single scan that contradicts a dozen others.

* OP doesn't understand the verse he is trying to downgrade

* OP Is ignoring a half a dozen scans because they don't suit his narrative

Also I know that votes don't work like this in this kind of threads but the people that bothered to come here and disagree with this travesty of a thread surpassed those that agreed prior to any argument

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

* OP doesn't understand the verse he is trying to downgrade

He knows nothing about the verse yet he tries to downgrade it, sigh....

 

[Planck69]

There's more staff disagreements than otherwise and the only staff agreement was made prior to the counter arguments being posted. On top of the disagreements, this thread has more or less been rejected.

 

[Robo432343]

People who originally agreed to this thread should come see this

 

[ImmortalDread]

TTGL comes to mind as well, as well as the terrible downgrade thread against it.

Oh that one, yes I am talking about this one.

 

[Reiner04]

There is also a 5D contamelias and 26D naljians.

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

There's more staff disagreements than otherwise and the only staff agreement was made prior to the counter arguments being posted. On top of the disagreements, this thread has more or less been rejected.

Should we close?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Can we close the curtain then?
Cause this is getting ridiculous with the amount of shit this thread have...

 

[ImmortalDread]

There's more staff disagreements than otherwise and the only staff agreement was made prior to the counter arguments being posted. On top of the disagreements, this thread has more or less been rejected.

Can be this closed, then?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

There is also a 5D contamelias and 26D naljians.

Wots a contamelias? And why does it sound dirty in Spanish >->

 

[Robo432343]

Can be this closed, then?

this will be closed until OP concedes

 

[Ruphas_Mafahl123]

this will be closed until OP conceded

As Planck said this thread is more or less rejected, so I think it can be closed

 

[KLOL506]

These arguments are getting as bland and cope-filled as they come, same repetitive garbage with nothing new to add to the table.

@Planck69 Close this thread, it's served its purpose.

 

[Hellscream]

laughs in Tier 1 Transformers with membranes and 17-21 dimensions

except for that this literally follows said theories of dimensionality and that DMC doesn't

 

[KLOL506]

except for that this literally follows said theories of dimensionality and that DMC doesn't

Don't even bother mate, keep your DOOM spite elsewhere.

 

[Planck69]

Seeing as there's a greater number of disagreement to a notable amount, more staff disagreeing than agreeing and the arguments have began repeating themselves long ago, I'll close this then.

 

[Hellscream]

Gurren lagann has an abundance of proof, even using things such as the string theory, and tons of proof that they're actually talking about spatial dimensions.
so i fail to see how this has anything to do with DMC?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Lol? DDM agreed with the thread when it started, so it's 2-1, and I'm not sure we take calc group member votes into consideration for stuff like this. Keep the damn thread open, it's a bad look otherwise.