Devil May Cry Downgrade #1: Speed Edition

[Sir_Ovens]

I will reiterate my stance. Earl's issues with the feats are things that affect almost every other video game verse. Nier, Dark Souls, Bayonetta, Bloodborne, Sekiro, Witcher, DOOM, etc.

All these verses depend on the reaction speeds of the person playing the game to perform dodges, or in the case of some of these verses, perfect dodges, which blurs the line between the feats of the characters within the game and the feats of those playing the game.

Plus, visual indicators and wind-ups are either game mechanics or canonical mechanics depending on the context of the verse.

I believe there should be standards for such issues, otherwise we will be locked in this eternal combat of who is objectively right when nobody is.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Leave my DOOM alone.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If we're to the point of taking votes, at the moment I fall in with Grath's lot. It can be aim-dodged (aim-reacted-to?), sure, but ostensibly this is not required for the feat to be done. Thus the point is moot.

They react to and block lightning. End of story.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think Ovens makes the most sense.

 

[GyroNutz]

Grath makes sense to me based on what I've read.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If we're to the point of taking votes, at the moment I fall in with Grath's lot. It can be aim-dodged (aim-reacted-to?), sure, but ostensibly this is not required for the feat to be done. Thus the point is moot.

That is not required but that is what they do every time? How is the point moot? They are visibly not reacting to anything in any of the feats.

And the whole "it is not required for the feat to be done" is pure headcanon/opinion as no one has actually shown to react to those, it was all aimdodging/blocking.

 

[Hellbeast]

Well this is still going

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

After having read the thread i heavily agree with the DMC knowledgebles here. Ovens brings up a good point here too.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@CrimsonStarFallen There are DMC knowledgeables on both sides of this argument

 

[Firephoenixearl]

@Sir_Ovens The thing is, from what you showed me from Sekirio it has no such issue.

And there is as far as i know no standard that says "if the character is not moving after something has been shot in gameplay they still scale", so i am unsure how the laser feat and nevan feat which are being discussed have any form of standard issue. So i would like to see what rule or standard i am actually missing here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

It was more a point about your claims of aim-dodging when most verses with a dodging mechanic scale to the thing they are capable of dodging.

With regards to real lightning or not, until Dargoo nukes the standards of >8-C lightning = real lightning, the current lightning feats would remain.

 

[Sparda_20000000]

go to 0:44 seconds into the video it explains the difference between having the guard up before hand and blocking at the last second

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I've explained the issue about 3 trillion times in this thread alone, and ppl still reply with "that's normal block not royal block". Omg.

 

[Hellbeast]

Uhh guys I don’t think this thread is going anywhere

 

[Sparda_20000000]

go to 7:25 dante does a perfect block at the last second and if you go back at 7:15 you see what happens when you have the guard up before hand

 

[Firephoenixearl]

And you still don't realize that my point is "even when you get the Royal Block you are still blocking before hand just with less time in between".

 

[Sparda_20000000]

no he is not slow the speed down the laser is fired he royal guards it when the laser is about to hit you are just grasping at straws at this point

also if go to 9:46 you see dante royal guard when he isn't even facing the rook

 

[Firephoenixearl]

He makes the blocking stance before the laser is fired though. In other words after the laser is fired he doesn't move, in other words it's not speed.

As for Royal Guarding when he's not facing the rook....what's that supposed to mean?

 

[Sparda_20000000]

it means how the **** is dante meant to prepare for a attack if he isn't facing it like you love to claim

slow down the video the laser fires first

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Ok so since pretty much everyone agrees on yeeting 1 and 5, we'll just talk about 2,3 and 4 from now on. These are the ppl in agreement and ppl in disagreement:

Agree (9 Total, 4 Staff): Earl(me), Weekly, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree(11 Total, 3 Staff): Dienomite (2 and 4), Sevil, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth,

Updating the list.

Agree: (9 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (15 votes on total, 6 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4), Sevil, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, Sparda_20000000, Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), CrimsonStarFallen, GyroNutz, Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3).


My quick take on Royal guard: When there is a attack incoming and you block before it hits you, you reacted to it, aim dodge or what earls is trying to argue where dante is already waiting any attack with block already formed, considering how close any attack needs to be to dante be able to do a royal block, is valid to consider he can react to lasers, now please stop arguing about royal guard, this discussion aint helping us, let vote decide.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

By having a player that looks at the fight from a 3D perspective......? Are we seriously gonna start saying that the things you can do because of the 3D camera are things Dante can do? Freaking eyeballs behind his head? Is that where we're at right now? Actually yeah whatever let's assume Dante can do that, how is he reacting to something he can't even see? You're saying he has no way to prepare cus he can't see, well why is he blocking then if he has no idea it is even happening?

As for the "slow down", mate i gave you screenshots in the OP, check them out.

 

[Mister6ame6]

Updating the list.

Agree: (9 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (15 votes on total, 6 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4), Sevil, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, Sparda_20000000, Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), CrimsonStarFallen, GyroNutz, Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3).


My quick take on Royal guard: When there is a attack incoming and you block before it hits you, you reacted to it, aim dodge or what earls is trying to argue where dante is already waiting any attack with block already formed, considering how close any attack needs to be to dante be able to do a royal block, is valid to consider he can react to lasers, now please stop arguing about royal guard, this discussion aint helping us, let vote decide.

You forgot me there

I heavily disagree with point 2,3 and 4 being nuked

 

[KLOL506]

I also disagree with points 2, 3 and 4 and I stand with DarkGrath on this.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Yep, as expected, calling ppl just results in FRA trains without reasoning.

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Agree: (9 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (15 votes on total, 6 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4), Sevil, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, @Sparda_20000000, @Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), @CrimsonStarFallen, @GyroNutz, @Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3).

Vote list update.

Agree: (9 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (17 votes on total, 6 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4),Sevil Natas, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, @Sparda_20000000, @Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), @CrimsonStarFallen, @GyroNutz, @Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3), Mister6ame6, KLOL506.

 

[Theglassman12]

You say that despite Weekly and Matt and DDM doing that same thing on your end.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You say that despite Weekly and Matt and DDM doing that same thing on your end.

Weekly and Matt have actually argued several times here though....
And DDM already had issues with this before the forum move even happened.
But whatever i won't continue this.

 

[00potato]

Put me in for disagree

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Agree: (9 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, @fandom_00potato do you agree or disagree?), Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (17 votes on total, 6 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4),@Sevil Natas, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, @Sparda_20000000, @Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), @CrimsonStarFallen, @GyroNutz, @Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3), @Mister6ame6, @KLOL506.

Vote list update.

Agree: (8 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (20 votes on total, 5 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4),@Sevil Natas, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, @Sparda_20000000, @Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), @CrimsonStarFallen, @GyroNutz, @Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3), @Mister6ame6, @KLOL506, fandom_00potato, Mr._Bambu, Oliver_de_jesus, Tony_di_bugalu (point 3).

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Put me in for disagree

Done

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

To clarify, I support points 1 and 5. The rest gets a no from me.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I support points 1.

The others is a no

 

[EFÍTÉ]

To clarify, I support points 1 and 5. The rest gets a no from me.

Good to know, also Point 1 and 5 already have been accepted and removed from the profiles.

If people want them back, just make a CTR about it !

 

[Aetheric Pariah]

I agree with KOS and ovens whole heartedly here. People's problems with video games in general shouldn't be brought up for one specific verse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I've said several times that there is no such standard or rule, and for as long as there IS no such thing, every verse can be taken 1 by 1 and have their feats debunked. Other people possibly making mistakes has no stand on whether the mistakes on DMC are allowed or not.

So as i've said several times before can we stop pointing fingers at other verses and start looking at the DMC feats themselves?

 

[EFÍTÉ]

Vote list update.

Agree: (8 total, 4 staff) Earl, Matthew, Ogbunali, Dienomite (agrees on 3), DarkDragonMedeus, Ionsite, (Idk about Potato, Bobscian, HellBeast,

Disagree: (21 votes on total, 5 staff votes ) Dienomite (2 and 4),@Sevil Natas, Efite, (Not sure about Dante_Demon_Killa, he just disagreed on 2, no input on 3 and 4), KnightofSunlight, TissRedgrave, Dark Grath, Rebuble, TFSCell, Galens, Glassman, Sadistic_Sleuth, @Sparda_20000000, @Sir_Ovens ( 2 and 3, i not sure about Point 4), @CrimsonStarFallen, @GyroNutz, @Maverick_Zero_X ( 2 and 3), @Mister6ame6, @KLOL506, @fandom_00potato, @Mr._Bambu, @Oliver_de_jesus, @Tony_di_bugalu (point 3), Obi2cool4kenobi

 

[Dienomite22]

I've said several times that there is no such standard or rule, and for as long as there IS no such thing, every verse can be taken 1 by 1 and have their feats debunked. Other people possibly making mistakes has no stand on whether the mistakes on DMC are allowed or not.

So as i've said several times before can we stop pointing fingers at other verses and start looking at the DMC feats themselves?

People who are not DMC supporters already agreed that the standard you are arguing to be applied to DMC would affect other verses. It's not a DMC feats only thing.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

People who are not DMC supporters apparently fail to understand that "this is not a standard or a rule" though. Very important part of what im saying. There are literally no standards or rules being used here.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

So as i've said several times before can we stop pointing fingers at other verses and start looking at the DMC feats themselves?

If I see tons of other verses not suffering from whatever it is you're trying to push here, I will be inclined to disagree here and I will be valid in my claim. What you are doing is going against the status quo, which favors against you currently.

As such, it doesn't matter how much you disagree if the cards are rightfully stacked against you.

I've stated this multiple times, but I do not think you are wrong. However, the opposition isn't technically wrong either. Like you said, there are no standards. Therefore, if the majority is against you, you lose.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dude i am not creating or denying any standards here.

What you're saying is equal to "If you downgrade DMC you have to downgrade every verse on the wiki". I have to do that if im changing or creating standards which, again, i am not.