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Devil May Cry Peak of Disappointment

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Sharkass said:
yea its canon to capcom but they said its not canon to the main story and moat possibly an alternate timeline. Guess gotta wait till it releases to get cleared.
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???? DMC is literally capcom. Would you rather listen to a dev's personal thoughts and opinions about canonicity or them stating an actual fact that the story was approved by capcom.
 
I mean, 99% of official works are accepted by the given owners by definition, now if they share the same canon is another story, while by default that's the case as usually they directly continue a previous setting, if there's stuff leaning against a given work being canon to begin with... yeah.
 
I quoted the wrong person

Point is, the guy who said the game isn't Canon it's not a dev, nor is the guy who said the story is approved by Capcom. The devs have their blogs in bilibili which is where you can find the game is a sequel to 3 and prequel to 1

Also yes, the story, the game, everything is approved and supervised by Capcom

Wouldn't be the first time Capcom ***** up something good DmC Devil may Cry
 
Sorry for reviving a slightly old topic, but will this apply or is it for the future? I just want to understand the situation better.
 
Hiryu-Z said:
Is DMC 1-C because of this game?
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The 9D stuff does.

So DMC should stay at Low 1-C after removing things

Seriously, this mobile game has a lot of stolen stuff on the back. Like, I even think it was over the top, it seems like the guys who made it were super fans who wanted the stuff super strong. It is funny.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
The 9D stuff does.

So DMC should stay at Low 1-C after removing things

Seriously, this mobile game has a lot of stolen stuff on the back. Like, I even think it was over the top, it seems like the guys who made it were super fans who wanted the stuff super strong. It is funny.
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big oof
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
It was glorious, revolutionary for the mobile market. One of its kind.

And they flushed it down the toilet.
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Damn itttt. Game looked good as far as i remember. Not similar to the main games but much better than most games and in android it would be amazing. If they took out so much stuff it's not worth it. Why does everything good have to be destroyed.
 
Why does everything good have to be destroyed.
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Apparently they want to avoid bankruptcy... By creating a whole new gameplay system... And erasing a lot of weapons that people could pay for... And deleting skins...

Now there are only like 5 characters and I guess they think that shit will give them more money
 
Tony_di_bugalu said:
Apparently they want to avoid bankruptcy... By creating a whole new gameplay system... And erasing a lot of weapons that people could pay for... And deleting skins...

Now there are only like 5 characters and I guess they think that shit will give them more money
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To be completely fair, beforehand there was only 3 characters, the differences in moves and the like were just weapons, and the costumes were aesthetic only.
 
The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
Oh don't worry I've got some reliable contacts that tell me certain peeps will be using SMT Dante bodypillows as SSS grade copium like they did when canon Dante was tier 7 or when DmC reboot was first shown kek!

Being devilish facetious aside, I've always found PoC dubious at best so count me on the agree team that said does this change hypothetically affect over verses that get content/story yeeted?

E.g: important lore/feats isn't retconned narratively but straight up deleted literally.
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Yes, this is a bit strange. Just because something isn't available anymore doesn't really mean it got "removed from canon" necessarily. It can, of course, be understood as that by certain people, but isn't really a rule that "isn't possible to access it officially anymore isn't 'canon'".

Taking examples from the series I know, there are both cases of stuff being considered still valid even after being removed, while other people don't think that stuff that isn't available anymore should be considered canon (Such as Ian Flynn saying he doesn't consider Sonic Runners canon because you can't play the game anymore, but not everyone seems to agree with him, not that Sonic canon really is well defined).

With Digimon, for example, there are tons of content that were exclusive to magazines and websites that have since been removed but are still used from time to time and they even ask help from fans to archive that kind of information so they can keep that in mind in the future. There have been a ton of Digimon mobile games that have been removed from the stores, but their content is still used and very important to understand recent development even with 99% of the fans being completely unaware of it (The end of one of the most recent stories is dependent on a side-quest of a very obscure mobile game that got deactivated nearly a decade before).

Stuff getting removed might not be related to it not being "canon" anymore, but rather just wasn't something that was thought to be needed from now on and they just didn't think it was necessary to mention it in new stuff. So it might not be available anymore but still exists as part of the background setting.

But there are also cases where stuff completely changes, since this is a Chinese mobile game, I will use others as an example. Digimon New Century first had a Beta Test that had a bit of the overall story, but when the game was finally released in full, the entire initial story was changed with a different presentation, characters, and events. But the background setting remained the same. There's also the case of Marvel Future Fight where the entire Story Mode got revamped and story events changed.

But those aren't the same case as this DMC from the looks of it. So just to be sure, the lore wasn't really a part of the story, right? Just a lore drop that appeared in the game in a lore box. If that is the case, the story changing doesn't really seem to affect that part of the lore, it's just that you can't access it anymore because the game mode related to that got axed and they didn't think to add it in another place, but it could very well still just be part of the background setting.

If that is the case, I don't think it needs to be removed as long as it's not contradicted (If it gets contradicted, it's enough to think that it got retconned). It would be no different from them just closing the original game and releasing a new game with the same name.
 
Executor_N0 said:
But those aren't the same case as this DMC from the looks of it. So just to be sure, the lore wasn't really a part of the story, right? Just a lore drop that appeared in the game in a lore box. If that is the case, the story changing doesn't really seem to affect that part of the lore, it's just that you can't access it anymore because the game mode related to that got axed and they didn't think to add it in another place, but it could very well still just be part of the background setting.
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In terms of powerscaling, I saw that very good things came from this game.

As I recall several of these things were texts that appeared during loads, and as it turns out they no longer exist. For example, the current immeasurable speed comes from these loading screen texts.

And as I recall the explanation of the "names" of the demons and how conceptual this is (as it is currently accepted) came from these texts on the loading screen.

Personally, I think that if things were removed and never mentioned again throughout the entire work, I don't see it as canonical.

Let's assume that the 9D soul thing comes from the loading screens, and it along with others have been completely removed and no longer exist in the game. If this 9D soul thing is never said, quoted or referenced (whether in past or future things like upcoming games and extra material) in the entire work (not just in PoC), I can't see how it could remain canon information.
 
If that is the case, I don't think it needs to be removed as long as it's not contradicted (If it gets contradicted, it's enough to think that it got retconned). It would be no different from them just closing the original game and releasing a new game with the same name.
Click to expand...

Pretty much everything is some kind of explanation about stuff we already had from other entries in the series, from names to soul to demons being hard to kill, etc, etc.

Regardless of that, I personally think deleted stuff shouldn't be used as it basically doesn't exist anymore and that should be the standards in the wiki but I have been told other verses use deleted stuff so it doesn't work like that.
 
Executor_N0 said:
With Digimon, for example, there are tons of content that were exclusive to magazines and websites that have since been removed but are still used from time to time and they even ask help from fans to archive that kind of information so they can keep that in mind in the future. There have been a ton of Digimon mobile games that have been removed from the stores, but their content is still used and very important to understand recent development even with 99% of the fans being completely unaware of it (The end of one of the most recent stories is dependent on a side-quest of a very obscure mobile game that got deactivated nearly a decade before).
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It reminds me of Castlevania Grimoire of Souls almost being removed from everything. Now it's only on Apple Arcade (with the story and everything already finished). And the Akumajō Dracula: Kabuchi no Tsuisoukyoku novel that doesn't exist anywhere to get it, unless you bought the magazine at the time.

I don't know what I would think if Grimoire of Souls was removed. It's tricky because he's at the literal end of the timeline, so there's kind of no way that any material can contradict him.

As for the novel, it's also at the end of the timeline and it's quite small and focused on a specific location that isn't that hugely relevant in general. So Grimoire doesn't quote her (I don't think it does), I don't see how it could be a big scoop or anything.

In fact, I think it goes from case to case. The size and relevance of the content removed along with inconsistencies or holes in them throughout the story.
 
I agree with Tony, the same happens with PG3D since some weapons and objects were removed (although this is a bit Meta since it could be attributed that it was one of the bad guys that removed it within the Lore cuz Online Mode is Canon but I am deviating)
 
Quite interesting.
I believe the whole "Using deleted stuff" from sources should be a thing taken case-by-case.
As Executor said, there might be cases that the deleted stuff directly contradicts what has been stated in other media that are available and are canonical, in which case we should assume they simply got retconned. BUT if said deleted things aren't contradicting the canon but instead strenghten it or expand upon it (such is the case of names in DMC)...
I think that could be debatable.
 
It depends a lot because we get to the point of how much can we go in that idea of "isn't available anymore". Like, an out-of-print book, or series. If a series has been "legally removed from anywhere" and you can't get it officially anymore, is that enough to not be usable anymore?

It really is a case-by-case analysis because we could get into a very problematic territory for certain stuff.
 
From my understanding, it’s less it simply got removed from the game, LoL or Destiny Style, and more like the Game being a Beta in itself is what is what makes it invalid. Similar to the Digimon Example.

The 1.0 Info is apart of a completely different iteration of the game. And this ranges not just to lore from textboxes, but whole cutscenes, like the Weapon Master. He gives info on Devil Arms and how they relate to their User, citing what is implied to be physical and spiritual strength necessary to wield such weapons.

In 2.0, he simply doesn’t exist. He’s not in the bar, he doesn’t have a cutscene, and his playable area is now just set dressing. Instead they fast tracked the weapon upgrade info into the Tutorial.

So when the official game drops, since Weapon Master isn’t in, the lore of Spiritual and Physical strength being needed is just…no longer valid. It was a concept that didn’t stay in the product.

Same with the loading screens.

They were clearly findable in a challenged mode and we have evidence these scans existed. However, in the newer state of the game they have been axed in exchange for a screen where the Team Characters are shown instead.

Since they haven’t been added to other modes (as far as we know), they would simply be concepts thought up for the game that were decided against being valid in the official release later.
 
okay so imma be the only opposition to this thread because of 2.0s nature & the stuff about content being removed from the games doesnt mean it's erased from the lore.

first of all PoC 2.0 the version thats being sited as a source here. is very much still unfinished. not even in open beta yet. its still in its testing phase. infact i was one of the closed beta testers for it. there were alot of mistranslations. tons of weird bugs. the grammar in the english version was very bad. there wasnt even audio for the characters and all around pretty unfinished. meanwhile PoC 1.0 is a released game (although only in china but at least available to the public ). and is still the main version thats being played. so we're just pretty much jumping the gun here. at least wait till the game is fully released to the public before making anything out of it as it is not even an official release

secondly. this is a live service game. and live service games update regularly. this aint content being "scrapped" its just getting replaced with other content. that can translate to retcons in some cases. but in this case. the very important stuff are just random info about the lore being dropped here & there that are completely un related to the story or gameplay. the loading screens that god replaced when the gamemode they appear in got nuked shouldnt mean its gone from the lore without further context. it just means the devs had to make room for other gamemodes or just liked a different appearance for it. and that resulted in the statements being replaced with the team icons but from an author standpoint. those statements should still apply as they werent retconned directly
RedReaper said:
like the Weapon Master. He gives info on Devil Arms and how they relate to their User, citing what is implied to be physical and spiritual strength necessary to wield such weapons.

In 2.0, he simply doesn’t exist. He’s not in the bar, he doesn’t have a cutscene, and his playable area is now just set dressing. Instead they fast tracked the weapon upgrade info into the Tutorial.
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this is a case where a retcon happens because we know the weapon master was a gameplay element in the story and in the new story he doesn't exist in the place where he should exist according to old story. thus a contradiction and a retcon
RedReaper said:
Same with the loading screens.
Click to expand...
but loading screens arent the same (most of them at least). as they're completely unrelated to the story and should still apply to lore regardless of whether they're in the game or not. for example the star guardian event that happened in LoL a while ago. they had an entire VN in the client that had alot of lore stories etc. but when the event was over that was removed. does that mean that the all of the lore & the entire story of the VN got removed from canon? no because riot simply had to remove it to make room for other events & stuff. so unless they're directly contradicted or were stated the be retconned by devs. they should still apply.

regardless they shouldnt be removed cus the game thats being used to delete these statements is still unfinished and its too soon to make a conclusion about.

sorry i took so long to comment here but i didnt have the will to comment when the thread was made as i alr had alot of back & forth about it in the discord
 
If the LoL thing is true within VSBW then Sevil makes a good argument.
Even if the scans were replaced, the devs weren't intentionally thinking about removing them from the lore altogether. The scans were in a special gamemode that can only be accesed in certain hours of China Time Zone (this said gamemode does not exist in 2.0), when you entered the gamemode you got greeted by a loading screen, which was the lore scans. But now, if you enter said gamemode you'll find that the loading screen got completely removed by a GUI that let's you see your current team.
All of this, in my perspective, COULD MEAN that the scans weren't directly affected, more-so that it was just a domino effect caused by the loading GUI changing.
 
Yes, there are a lot of cases of events getting removed and stuff being revamped where certain stuff isn't found anymore because of a consequence of what it was tied to. A few games have some archive to that kind of stuff, like ones where exclusive content that was part of a one-time-only event can be replayed again and again. But other times it was simply removed, sometimes entire game modes and that stuff is just missing. It's more of a lack of official archival than anything else unless directly contradicted in my opinion (Which is sad, the fact that a lot of stuff isn't archived officialy in a way that fans can easily access is a problem that for some reason continues to exist and some stuff will continue to just get forgotten because of that if wasn't for fans archives, like the one with Digimon where recent stories were built based on some obscure stuff that no one can get anymore because isn't officially available).
 
Agreed (Staff so far, since apparently blue names don't mean jackshit, my name may not mean anything either): Planck69, Me, Sir Ovens, Emirp Sumitpo, LordGriffin1000, Theglassman12

Disagreed: 0

Neutral: 0

I think that's more than enough for this to go through. 2 admins, 3 thread mods. Over a month has passed since the creation of the Thread.

Of course, I can tag a few more peeps if needed.

@Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @SamanPatou @Abstractions @Maverick_Zero_X @LephyrTheRevanchist @KingTempest @CrimsonStarFallen
 
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Executor_N0 said:
Snip
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Tbh using content from sources that haven't been officially released and localized globally always ends up being way too much troubled than its worth and is classic battle-boarding bait and VSBW brainrot.

I agree it's case by case tho, that said from what I'm seeing from the replies it's mostly due to corporate greed that PoC got drastically altered (yet more proof the gaming community would be healthier without gacha/mobile games) but yeah it does bring up an interesting discussion topic of narrative retcons Vs narrative deletion, that might be worth looking into in the future.

That said, what's your overall view on this CRT? (agree, disagree or neutral) taking into account @Sevil Natas reply ofc.

Also Ian Flynn isn't a good example as he is a classic user of death of the author, openly trolls power-scalers, believes Sonic is mach 1 tops and often contradicts years of lore that existed long before he worked for Sega (Who get final say on the Sonic canon regardless) but I digress since this is a DMC CRT.
 
Sevil, the issue is that’s not a RETCON. A retcon is material that is fully established (the 1.0 Beta is not the Official Release and thus was always liable to change/was a conceptual state of the game), that is then contradicted in later material (there is no contradiction here. It’s not like it’s DMC6 Retconning PoC, or PoC is Retconning DMC3. The game was simply fundamentally changed from the conceptual state it was in. They have redesigned it from the ground up. The Weapon Master simply never existed. Not he did, and then didn’t {like a Retcon}, he just never did {like thrown away Concept Art}.

Nor is this like LoL or Destiny. It’s not like the Weapon Master from 1.0 gets referenced again. LoL/Destiny events agree past removed events happened, they just can’t take up Server Space and so are removed. That is wholly different from a Beta just changing the game entirely.
 
Bobsican said:
There's a whole rule on not doing pages for stuff that isn't officially released, otherwise we'd have pages for Yandere Simulator on the site.
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In complete fairness, 1.0 was the “official release.” It maintained its existence for a year and a half, debatably two (since 2021), got consistently updated (gained new missions, new modes, and even new Gacha Weapons and costumes). Hell, it was even stated by the TL’ers and Media heads 1.0 (the CN Version) would be directly made Global/carried over. There are a litany of articles we’ve found that supports this. From canoncity, to internal game lore, to design philosophy.

2.0 is simply them saying their original claim was a lie. They’ve recently taken an entirely drastic shift in design for what they’ve said is money due to the fact the original PoC model apparently was not profitable enough. Think of it as a plot twist.
 
RedReaper said:
Sevil, the issue is that’s not a RETCON. A retcon is material that is fully established (the 1.0 Beta is not the Official Release and thus was always liable to change/was a conceptual state of the game),
Click to expand...
oh for gods sake this again

even in their 2.0 announcement the devs acknowledge 1.0 as an official launch.

www.bilibili.com

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åä½æ¶éç人ï¼å¥½ä¹ä¸è§~ã鬼泣-å·å³°ä¹æã2.0å¨æ°çæ¬ç»§é¦è½®æµè¯ä¼åä¹åï¼å³å°å¼å¯æ°ä¸è½®ãè§éãæµè¯ï¼å¨é¢å级åçäºå¡æï¼å°å度ååä½æ¶éç人æå¼å¤§é¨ï¼æ¬¢è¿åä¸ä½éªå¹¶æåºå®è´µç建议ï¼åå©æ们æç»æååè´¨ãåæ¶ï¼2.0å¨æ°çæ¬ç°å·²å¼å¯é¢çº¦ï¼åä½æ¶éç人å¾å¿«å°±å¯ä»¥æ¢ç´¢æ´å...
www.bilibili.com www.bilibili.com
On June 11, 2021, "Devil May Cry - Battle of the Peak" was officially launched, and it has received the eager attention of tens of millions of players on the entire network, and the results achieved far exceeded expectations. However... the development of things caught us by surprise, a large number of players were lost in a short period of time, but it also pointed out the problem for us: for a long time, we spent a lot of energy on the restoration of battles and art vision However, more important issues were overlooked: the content of the main line is too short, the threshold for combat operations is too high, there are no new characters for a long time, and the dungeon gameplay is not rich enough...

So we took the criticisms of all players, regrouped and started again, creating version 2.0 of "Devil May Cry - Battle at the Peak"! 作者：鬼泣-巅峰之战
Click to expand...
1.0 was not incomplete. it was officially released. it even had expansion packs after
RedReaper said:
that is then contradicted in later material (there is no contradiction here. It’s not like it’s DMC6 Retconning PoC, or PoC is Retconning DMC3. The game was simply fundamentally changed from the conceptual state it was in. They have redesigned it from the ground up. The Weapon Master simply never existed. Not he did, and then didn’t {like a Retcon}, he just never did {like thrown away Concept Art}.
Click to expand...
except for the fact that concept art doesn't appear in the form of a playable game title that was officially released to the public. it was an official version that got a huge gameplay update. some stuff is gonna be changed & thus retconned. but the old version was definitely not a "concept stage" thats not how it works
 
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