Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[Tipper17]

You know I'm aware that the general consensus for most of us is "Keysword GG" here, but outside that does Heroes have any 5-D scaling to speak of outside Beat's World(which in itself is pretty dubiously believed)? I ask this because if Ultraguy has the Archie verse at 5-D then this DB IMO is much more complicated then what's being assumed

Idk what DBH has going for cosmology scaling that matches the Chaos Force

 

[Tipper17]

Also the G1 blog is divisive over who wins

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

You know I'm aware that the general consensus for most of us is "Keysword GG" here, but outside that does Heroes have any 5-D scaling to speak of outside Beat's World(which in itself is pretty dubiously believed)? I ask this because if Ultraguy has the Archie verse at 5-D then this DB IMO is much more complicated then what's being assumed

I've not really seen much besides the aforementioned dubiously believed thing, everything else was hushed whispers of people saying they could get the verse higher but then nothing actually coming of it. I honestly don't think DBH has anything on the tier of 5D cosmology, no amount of multipliers or scaling chains they could give Trunks would help out there (not to mention Silver probably also has scaling chains).

Really hoping that Silver wins mainly not about the bragging but it's about sending a message, also cause the last Archie got cheated out of a W and would like to see them get out on a winning streak.



Is there a proposal for 12-d^ scaling for archie cosmology ooc, asking since I've seen someone bringing it up.

I've heard rumbles of 11D stuff but its kinda shaky and mostly based off of a one time mention/explanation of a Dimensional Matrix Concept. I haven't heard anything for 12D though, would love to know so I can apply more wank to Archie Sonic

Also yeah I'll always be an advocate of Archie getting robbed. Especially bad when its one of the only episodes where the victor was changed mid production due to a last minute find, and that can honestly really be felt in the animation & verdict, whole thing feels rushed and terribly explained.

 

[Chronicplane]

I already watched it off of RT but I respect the **** out of u for this, makes it easier for most others to check it.

thanks bro.╰(▔∀▔)╯

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Also the G1 blog is divisive over who wins

Wait the G1 blog is up already? I was just looking at their blog and didn't see it up yet.

 

[Tipper17]

Wait the G1 blog is up already? I was just looking at their blog and didn't see it up yet.

No I know peeps who working in it describing how the debate is over it

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Did anyone notice that emphasis of Silver's time based hax alongside his psychokinesis? It's pretty interesting because since DB is using Xenoverse Trunks to justify Xeno Trunks having his Super counterpart's abilities, they'd also know that in the first game Xenoverse Trunks was at threat at being erased because of timeline altering shenanigans.
Maybe it's just a major coincidence but I can't help but wonder if that time based hax is going to have some part to do with what Silver is going to do

 

[Tipper17]

Did anyone notice that emphasis of Silver's time based hax alongside his psychokinesis? It's pretty interesting because since DB is using Xenoverse Trunks to justify Xeno Trunks having his Super counterpart's abilities, they'd also know that in the first game Xenoverse Trunks was at threat at being erased because of timeline altering shenanigans.
Maybe it's just a major coincidence but I can't help but wonder if that time based hax is going to have some part to do with what Silver is going to do

Maybe but we'll see

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

Legitimately, I would donate a kidney if this ends in a "Time, huh?" death scene. And yes I know it's an infamous moment which has caused a lot of salt, but it'd be so worth it if it were to happen to either Trunks or Silver

 

[Tipper17]

Legitimately, I would donate a kidney if this ends in a "Time, huh?" death scene. And yes I know it's an infamous moment which has caused a lot of salt, but it'd be so worth it if it were to happen to either Trunks or Silver

I rather no time fuckery(besides cosmic fuckery) just a straight up W

 

[Tipper17]

Well apparently from a few snippets the fight looks neat from a reseacher

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

You know I'm aware that the general consensus for most of us is "Keysword GG" here, but outside that does Heroes have any 5-D scaling to speak of outside Beat's World(which in itself is pretty dubiously believed)? I ask this because if Ultraguy has the Archie verse at 5-D then this DB IMO is much more complicated then what's being assumed

Did anyone notice that emphasis of Silver's time based hax alongside his psychokinesis? It's pretty interesting because since DB is using Xenoverse Trunks to justify Xeno Trunks having his Super counterpart's abilities, they'd also know that in the first game Xenoverse Trunks was at threat at being erased because of timeline altering shenanigans.
Maybe it's just a major coincidence but I can't help but wonder if that time based hax is going to have some part to do with what Silver is going to do

I do generally think there's a lot more in Silver's favor then people are giving credit for.

-Archie Silver has a pretty massive potential AP advantage with scaling to a full 5D cosmology off of scaling to Archie Super Sonic re-writing the entire Archie cosmology, including the Chaos Force outside of it, as well as fighting Solaris, which would have destroyed the entire Archie cosmology.
-Silver has general greater range & control of the area around him, meaning Trunks getting in close to any degree means dealing with Silver's telekinesis, which can affect multiversal entities like Dark Enerjak even in his base form, meaning, even in base form, Silver could reflect any of Trunks' ki attacks or time power based attacks right back at him, and even hold back/alter Trunks' attacks to a degree, like how he brought Super Scourge to a brief stop, or induce paralysis.
-He can turn basically all of Trunks' attacks back on him with his attack reflection, and can even do this in Base Form which could allow him to stay in the fight even without his Super Form for a short time
-To my knowledge, Trunks' time travel abilities are restricted to a device that he keeps on him that allows him to time travel. Chaos Force users have the ability to short circuit and ruin technology through technomagic, or outright transmute inorganic objects to crystal, which could allow him to take Trunks' form of time travel out of the fight right then and there, while Trunks has no way to mitigate Silver's time travelling abilities.

Silver still has to worry about:
-Trunks' probability manipulation, which would allow him to manipulate and decrease the probability of Silver's attacks connecting with him, as well increasing the probability of his attacks connecting with Silver.
-Keysword's durability negating, invulnerability negating, low godly regeneration negating, and immortality negating properties would all bypass Silver, even in his super form, which could absolutely kill him.
-Silver seems to have no way to get rid of the Keysword, besides MAYBE using it against Trunks very quickly with a telekinetic swing. Otherwise, he can't BFR it as it can cross dimensions/time to reunite with it's master, and it supposedly resists BFR in the first place, he likely can't crystallize it like he could Trunk's time travel device since it seems to resist alterations to itself (correct me on this if needed).

Legitimately, I would donate a kidney if this ends in a "Time, huh?" death scene. And yes I know it's an infamous moment which has caused a lot of salt, but it'd be so worth it if it were to happen to either Trunks or Silver

While I love Time Fuckery in the context of creating an interesting fight scene/dynamic fight & having the battlefield constantly change (ala Reverse Flash vs Goku Black & Cable vs Booster Gold), a fight between two time travelers should absolutely never result in the death being Time Travel related. Every time they have tried doing this, it has failed spectacularly, such as the infamous Ben 10 kill not working canonically for Ben in SEVERAL different ways (Sotobro Effect, Alien X's acausality & own time travel, Omnitrix's defense system), or Wally killing Archie Sonic through time travel in a way that's almost completely incomprehensible on a first time watch (honest to god tell me you've met a single person who wasn't completely and utterly baffled by that kill on a first time watch. Nobody I've met, between Archie or Flash fans, knew what the **** was happening the first time, I'll know you're lying) and is generally such a lame and rushed conclusion to an already pretty disappointing fight.

Frankly, just have one character kill the other through a different means, even if its just overpowering them physically or using their main haxx wincon. A "clever" time travel wincon almost never comes off as "clever" and typically ends up nonsensical, or just breaks one of the rules of another character in the process, and leads to a lot of confusion and salt you never would have had otherwise when people question the depiction of the battle.

 

[Tipper17]

Long story short we don't need a time travel kill just be upfront with it

There's more fun than that

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

To continue my last point: Both Reverse Flash vs Goku Black and Booster Gold vs Cable didn't use time travel as the finishing blow, and generally, both have significantly more memorable endings. Cable being killed through the thing that basically net Booster the win in the first place makes sense verdict wise, and allowed for a creative kill and for Cable to look cool even in death. While RF v GB had Thawne get the kill through the only method he reasonably could, destroying what gave GB the immunity in the first place, and then killing him, instead of some elaborate time paradox shit, he just destroys his ring and then grinds his face into the planet, and its one of the most visceral and beloved (?) deaths in the show's run.

In the case of Silver v Trunks, I'd recommend either:

A. Having the winner vaporize the loser, either in their strongest forms, or having exhausted their opponent to their weakest form then finishing them
B. If Trunks wins, just have him delivery a clean slice in two, his iconic kill method. Don't be overly gory or gross to Silver, it's not really needed or deserved for this matchup.
C. Have the winner just outright physically overpower the looser. Maybe have Silver get the advantage over Trunks, and then crushing him with his psychokinesis, or just oblitherating him.
D. If they use the Silver cellular/biological manip stuff, having a kill where Silver rips the S Cells out of Trunks and then kills him in literally any myriad way after the fact would be a perfectly functional & climactic kill, could allow for a very close near death scenario where Silver almost lands a slash with the Keysword on Silver, and Silver stops it last minute with psychokinesis, holding it inches away from him, then, as a last resort, ripping the S Cells out of Trunks, depowering him back to a much, much weaker level, allowing Silver to them overpower and kill him through any other way, maybe even with his own Keysword for dramatic irony.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Longest chain of comments I've seen here in a while lmao

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Longest chain of comments I've seen here in a while lmao

I can type immense walls of text when a character I care about is involved LOL. You probably wont see me like this again until Simon, another Kirby/Sonic/Archie Sonic rep, a Yakuza character, or a Touhou character get on the show.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

You gotta wonder how painful it would be for Trunks if he had his Saiyan cells ripped right out of him.
That's like a massive chunk of himself, gone

 

[Hunterzillas]

If Silver wins this, will it be the start of a Sonic win-streak? They haven't had one of those in awhile.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

I do generally think there's a lot more in Silver's favor then people are giving credit for.

-Archie Silver has a pretty massive potential AP advantage with scaling to a full 5D cosmology off of scaling to Archie Super Sonic re-writing the entire Archie cosmology, including the Chaos Force outside of it, as well as fighting Solaris, which would have destroyed the entire Archie cosmology.
-Silver has general greater range & control of the area around him, meaning Trunks getting in close to any degree means dealing with Silver's telekinesis, which can affect multiversal entities like Dark Enerjak even in his base form, meaning, even in base form, Silver could reflect any of Trunks' ki attacks or time power based attacks right back at him, and even hold back/alter Trunks' attacks to a degree, like how he brought Super Scourge to a brief stop, or induce paralysis.
-He can turn basically all of Trunks' attacks back on him with his attack reflection, and can even do this in Base Form which could allow him to stay in the fight even without his Super Form for a short time
-To my knowledge, Trunks' time travel abilities are restricted to a device that he keeps on him that allows him to time travel. Chaos Force users have the ability to short circuit and ruin technology through technomagic, or outright transmute inorganic objects to crystal, which could allow him to take Trunks' form of time travel out of the fight right then and there, while Trunks has no way to mitigate Silver's time travelling abilities.

Silver still has to worry about:
-Trunks' probability manipulation, which would allow him to manipulate and decrease the probability of Silver's attacks connecting with him, as well increasing the probability of his attacks connecting with Silver.
-Keysword's durability negating, invulnerability negating, low godly regeneration negating, and immortality negating properties would all bypass Silver, even in his super form, which could absolutely kill him.
-Silver seems to have no way to get rid of the Keysword, besides MAYBE using it against Trunks very quickly with a telekinetic swing. Otherwise, he can't BFR it as it can cross dimensions/time to reunite with it's master, and it supposedly resists BFR in the first place, he likely can't crystallize it like he could Trunk's time travel device since it seems to resist alterations to itself (correct me on this if needed).

I can see most of this except for Silver just grabbing Trunks’ sword and using it against him, that sounds like a bit of a reach for Trunks not to notice that and counter it with his own telekinesis

I can type immense walls of text when a character I care about is involved LOL. You probably wont see me like this again until Simon, another Kirby/Sonic/Archie Sonic rep, a Yakuza character, or a Touhou character get on the show.

Belmont or The Digger?

If Silver wins this, will it be the start of a Sonic win-streak? They haven't had one of those in awhile.

That’d be good to have

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

You gotta wonder how painful it would be for Trunks if he had his Saiyan cells ripped right out of him.
That's like a massive chunk of himself, gone

It would be incredibly painful, hence why Silver would probably save it as a last resort. He generally doesn't like hurting those that dont deserve it from memory, but if pushed to for his world's survival he'd probably do something like this for a kill.

If Silver wins this, will it be the start of a Sonic win-streak? They haven't had one of those in awhile.

This would be the first Sonic winstreak I think. He's had more loss streaks, actually. As it went:

Shadow lost to Vegeta (lol at the time)
Sonic beat Mario
Eggman and Wily Tied
Tails beat Luigi
Knuckles lost to DK (lol)
Shadow lost to Mewtwo (lol)
Amy beat Ramona
Metal Sonic lost to Zero
Sonic lost to Mario's rematch
Archie Sonic lost to Wally
Shadow beat Ryuko

So yeah, this would be the first ever Sonic winstreak, unless you really wanna stretch and say Metal Sonic technically winning in Eggman v Wily counts as a Sonic win, which I don't.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Belmont or The Digger?

The Digger. I like Belmont but I wouldn't be writing paragraphs for him I don't think. Plus I'm pretty sure his major matchup is a stomp he doesn't need to be defended for anyways lol.

Also yeah, the telekinesis thing was a huge stretch, hence why I put a big MAYBE in front of it. Very unlikely to happen or make a difference or even be doable.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

Oh out of curiosity Kirbonic, I wanted to ask you what you think of Undyne vs Majima or Takayuki Yagami vs Lei Wukong or Daredevil since you’re a Yakuza fan

 

[Tipper17]

I'll add my two cents

Time travel is already a head ache inducing concept that's barely handle well at all in fiction

When it comes to usage as a kill nah it's shouldn't be used at all


Ben 10 vs GL is the biggest examples and I could go over why it should never been used in the first place


1.Hal hasn't used the ability since the 90s
2.Ben has defenses against Time Travel as mentioned
3.Made both characters look weak and stupid
(Hal needed to go back in time when he realized he couldn't outright beat X, Alien X not following Hal back in time)
4.Ben getting humiliated via Boot

And I could go on and on

Also While Archie Vs Wally made sense going by there reason could've had something else then doing the same thing but different

Cable and Blacks case is why time travel should only be used to elevate never for the kill, More Mano a Mano type kills

 

[Hunterzillas]

It would be incredibly painful, hence why Silver would probably save it as a last resort. He generally doesn't like hurting those that dont deserve it from memory, but if pushed to for his world's survival he'd probably do something like this for a kill.


This would be the first Sonic winstreak I think. He's had more loss streaks, actually. As it went:

Shadow lost to Vegeta (lol at the time)
Sonic beat Mario
Eggman and Wily Tied
Tails beat Luigi
Knuckles lost to DK (lol)
Shadow lost to Mewtwo (lol)
Amy beat Ramona
Metal Sonic lost to Zero
Sonic lost to Mario's rematch
Archie Sonic lost to Wally
Shadow beat Ryuko

So yeah, this would be the first ever Sonic winstreak, unless you really wanna stretch and say Metal Sonic technically winning counts as a Sonic win, which I don't.

Sick.

I'm rooting for Trunks, because I have literally zero connection to Silver, but it sure would be nice for Sonic to finally get a winning streak.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

The Digger. I like Belmont but I wouldn't be writing paragraphs for him I don't think. Plus I'm pretty sure his major matchup is a stomp he doesn't need to be defended for anyways lol.

Also yeah, the telekinesis thing was a huge stretch, hence why I put a big MAYBE in front of it. Very unlikely to happen or make a difference or even be doable.

He major MU is Jonathan?

 

[Tipper17]

Sonic to finally get a winning streak.

they had one with Sonic and Tails
there just getting one back

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Oh out of curiosity Kirbonic, I wanted to ask you what you think of Undyne vs Majima or Takayuki Yagami vs Lei Wukong or Daredevil since you’re a Yakuza fan

My personal favorite Yagami match is Yagami vs Wei Shen. I know Wei is generally a popular Kiryu matchup, but I prefer to have Kiryu fight Shizuo Heiwajima from Durarara! Which frees up Wei. It saves Wei from getting completely shitstomped by Kiryu and lets him have a generally closer matchup with Yagami, who he kind of has similarities to in the undercover detective/police officer martial artist who works for the law but ultimately follows their own morals and isn't afraid to bend the law a little for their morals.

Works very well as a street level martial arts fight, that has potential for slight wackiness, due to Wei having access to some Chinese Magic shit and a vareity of weapons and guns, while Yagami has his myraid of extracts that give him crazy shit like perception manip, force choking, laser beams, fire manip, explosion manip, and energy blasts, among other crazy shit. You could have a cool martial arts fight that temporarliy breaks into some magical/weapon based insanity, before finishing off with an intense and brutal martial arts finisher. It's actually one of my favorite versus matchups of all time, really good stuff.

Honestly I haven't decided on my favorite Majima matchup though! Undyne, Setsuna Kiryu, and Juri are all really interesting opponents for him with their own ups and downs, I really need to sit down and analyze which one I prefer for him sometime.

He major MU is Jonathan?

I thought it was Arthur of Ghosts n' Goblins, or has that changed?

they had one with Sonic and Tails
there just getting one back

Sonic's first win against Mario was interrupted by the tie with Eggman and Wily, Tails vs Luigi happened afterwards. Technically not a win stream unless you just discount draws.

 

[Tipper17]

Sonic's first win against Mario was interrupted by the tie with Eggman and Wily, Tails vs Luigi happened afterwards. Technically not a win stream unless you just discount draws.

they view Eggman vs Wily as a metal W so 5-6
there is logic not mine lol

so three peat at least

 

[Tipper17]

Shit Dragon Ball record 6-4 or 6-5 depending on how you view Goku vs Superman fiasco

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

I thought it was Arthur of Ghosts n' Goblins, or has that changed?

I gonna be honest with you, I don’t see a lot of Simon MUs so I can’t say, I always thought the popular pick was Arthur vs Sir Daniel. Also surprised I don’t see a lot of Simon stuff since hes like the original Belmont

My personal favorite Yagami match is Yagami vs Wei Shen. I know Wei is generally a popular Kiryu matchup, but I prefer to have Kiryu fight Shizuo Heiwajima from Durarara! Which frees up Wei. It saves Wei from getting completely shitstomped by Kiryu and lets him have a generally closer matchup with Yagami, who he kind of has similarities to in the undercover detective/police officer martial artist who works for the law but ultimately follows their own morals and isn't afraid to bend the law a little for their morals.

Works very well as a street level martial arts fight, that has potential for slight wackiness, due to Wei having access to some Chinese Magic shit and a vareity of weapons and guns, while Yagami has his myraid of extracts that give him crazy shit like perception manip, force choking, laser beams, fire manip, explosion manip, and energy blasts, among other crazy shit. You could have a cool martial arts fight that temporarliy breaks into some magical/weapon based insanity, before finishing off with an intense and brutal martial arts finisher. It's actually one of my favorite versus matchups of all time, really good stuff.

Honestly I haven't decided on my favorite Majima matchup though! Undyne, Setsuna Kiryu, and Juri are all really interesting opponents for him with their own ups and downs, I really need to sit down and analyze which one I prefer for him sometime.

What’s your opinion on the victors also?

 

[Tipper17]

All i know if Trunks loses i got some good ole memes waiting

 

[Tipper17]

"Time for emperor to get the job done"

 

[Tipper17]

speaking of which Street fighter fans had to witness their series have the longest losing streak (S2-S4)
there last win before S5 was S1

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

As it should be

 

[Tipper17]

Sf fans when folks cry about their franchise getting it rough when there's been a punching bag and holds the longest losing streak

Soul Calibur Fans when they don't have a single W

Bleach Fans when looking at their W/L record

Naruto Fans when they realize there only big Ws were against Bleach and MHA

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

You know based on pre established DB scaling when it comes to Death Battle, how many times over Universal would Black Frieza be? Especially since he one shotted UI Omen Goku and UE Vegeta
Edit: based on the assumption that Frieza's MU is against Megatron

 

[Maskofthedragon]

speaking of which Street fighter fans had to witness their series have the longest losing streak (S2-S4)
there last win before S5 was S1

This wasn't even like 1 episode per season, it was 6 total

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

What’s your opinion on the victors also?

Kiryu beats Shizuo low/mid diff. Kiryu is generally more skilled, faster, and has better AP and his heat and passive abilities would give him a huge leg up, but Shizuo is no slouch and his ridiculous lifting strength compared to Kiryu could cause some trouble.

Yagami beats Wei low/mid diff, Yagami generally outpaces Wei in terms of speed by a wide margin, and is arguably more skilled then Wei due to a knowledge of multiple styles, his magicalso generally beats out Wei's magic and most of the weaponry at Wei's disposal. The only things that pose a major threat would be rocket launchers (for obv reasons) and the fact Wei has Agent 47's ******* Silverballer, which absolutely could one shot Yagami if he lands a shot with it, but due to the speed advantage and crazy magic that's unlikely.

Majima beats Undyne mid diff, while he outstats pretty substantially (I hear there's some debate on if Undyne gets Undying form, she might match up a bit better then due to multipliers) and Undyne's soul manip/danmaku could catch Majima off guard, his greater speed, higher AP, greater combat variety due to his variety of combat styles & weapons, the ability to overwhelm Undyne with shadow clones, and paralysis inducement.

Majima either beats Setsuna very high diff or loses, depends on if you think his speed advantage (Hypersonic compared to Setsuna's Supersonic) could allow him to get off a paralysis inducement could net him a chance to close the AP/durability gap between them, as Setsuna is 8B compared to Majima's 8C, but paralysis inducement into a throat slash/fatal stab could still spell Setsuna's end.

Majima vs Juri, I've put less research into I'm not familiar with SF lore, but it seems dependent on which version of Juri you use. If you use her at her full power with the Feng Shui Engine from SF4, she's faster than Majima at High Hypersonic against his Hypersonic, and has 8B AP/Durability compared to Majima's 8C, which would likely outpace and kill him, outside of a lucky paralysis inducement and maybe overwhelming her with shadow clones, Juri would probably take that. HOWEVER it seems she loses the Feng Shui Engine after SF4 and has to use a much less powerful Alpha version going forwards, which seems to cap her AP out at 9A, with Superhuman speed regularly, but Subsonic+ bursts of speed & combat reactions. Majima would easily be able to take her out via higher AP, much higher speed, shadow clone overwhelming, and paralysis inducement.

tldr, he stomps current Feng Shui Engine Alpha Juri, but likely loses to original full power Feng Shui Engine Juri outside of a lucky shot.

Also just to throw in an extra matchup:

Ichiban vs Josuke Higashikata from Jojo is his big matchup rn I think. This matchup kind of varies wildly depending on a single feat, and has some interesting stuff going into it. So Ichiban in base is actually stronger and faster, with Josuke's speed being peak human with Relatavistic+ reactions, while Ichiban has hypersonic reactions and combat speed (and one lightning speed attack due to... attacking with actual lightning), he's definitely outpacing Josuke himself, but the big thing is his stand. His stand is Relatavistic+, with a Speed of Light reaction due to tagging another SoL stand. He can also potentially reach FTL speeds, but its situational and dependent on his distance from Josuke in the first place. Josuke himself would not be able to take a hit from Ichiban due to his higher AP, and even if his stand hit Ichiban, they're both comparable in AP and it wouldn't kill him, due to both being building level. The fight could generally come down to if Ichiban could speed blitz and take out Josuke before he materializes his stand, or if he'd be able to hang in against Josuke for long enough after summoning it to get in a definitive finishing blow, which is arguable due to Ichiban's myriad of different weapons and classes and styles, not to mention his summons, and the ways he has to keep in the battle with his healing items and effects like being able to survive a fatal blow. It's also arguable that Ichiban could see and directly combat Josuke's stand, due to him being able to see and interact with spirits in the real world, and downscaling from Kiryu, who was able to physically punch and put spirits to rest with his bare hands.

HOWEVER Josuke does have some wincons. For one, the Speed of Light tagging his stand pulled off definitely outclasses Ichiban's speed, and he could potentially beat down Ichiban in time before he could seal the deal on Josuke. It also seems that when Josuke is enraged he can bypass conventional durability by fusing people together with other objects, which would bypass Ichiban's durability. The argument could generally go either way..... but....

What throws a wrench in this MU is if you buy the Satellite laser or not. The satellite laser is.... interesting, as its pretty hard to deny that it exists and is real, Ichiban should realistically be able to summon the satellite laser and hit his opponent with it, which based on calculations, would likely be somewhere in Tier 6 based on it splitting clouds the way it did. This is obviously, far, far beyond Josuke's pedigree and would kill him instantly. I'd say he has a pretty solid wincon on this front, if he's in danger of death, pulling back and just dropping a satellite laser on Josuke would absolutely do the job and put him under. However, scaling Ichiban (or any Yakuza character for that matter) to the laser itself is ABSOLUTELY preposterous. It's the definition of an outlier and Tier 6 Yakuza, as incredibly based as that sounds, should not be scaled to every character. It belongs EXPLICITLY to this ONE summon that Ichiban has.

So yeah, I lean towards Ichi taking this matchup, he has greater variety, could debatably see Josuke's stand, some interesting gimmicks to keep him in the game longer, summons to help him out, obviously outclasses Josuke physically and can at least match his stands' regular output, though would struggle with its higher speeds, and if using the Satellite laser, has an easy instant kill method available at the press of a button. However he absolutely could be killed via being outpaced by Josuke's stand at its higher end speeds and killed with its dura negging abilities.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

speaking of which Street fighter fans had to witness their series have the longest losing streak (S2-S4)
there last win before S5 was S1

And the S5 win is widely agreed upon to be an incorrect and fraudulent victory too LOL

 

[Jasonsith]

All i know if Trunks loses i got some good ole memes waiting

I can see Archie Comics fans go Eobard Thawne and Dio Brando.

Midnight Sleuths - Vocal Version w/ @ kid Yuki (Yu Narukami vs Takumi Aiba) (Persona vs Digimon)

Nobody wants to talk about this?