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Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Ballot Matchups #3 discussion from a friend
Ciri vs Lucina- They wanna bring on Witcher, don’t know much about Lucina
Goku vs Goku- thought Super just kinda wins
Gogeta vs Omnimon- Don’t know much about Digimon but thought it would be debatable and it would be cool
Shuma Gorath vs Cthulhu- interesting but don’t know how to handle a cosmic horror battle and think Shuma probably stomps, Godzilla seemed to be the more interesting pick for Cthulhu
Darkrai vs Antasma- not really sure about it
Rayquaza vs Bahamut- didn’t really know how to handle Bahamut and if it’s a comp he probably stomps, but could be sick
Steve vs Terrain- Steve sounds weird versus wise but would be cool Kira vs Adachi- Liam really likes it, thinks it’s super thematic and would be very sick
Itachi vs Madoka- know Itachi… don’t know the other
Cell vs Xion- thought Xion was Sora, thought it was stupid but fits better than a lot of other fights for both Rick Grimes vs John Marston- thought the time gap was funny and would be fun
Generator Rex vs Eren- know Eren, vaguely know Rex. Thought it could be neat
Powerpuff Girls Z vs Witch Apprentices- vaguely know Z, like normal PPG a lot
Skeletor vs Zedd- love it, hard yes. Basically just a matter of time
Master Shake vs Eric Cartman- think it’s funny and have huge feats, would be hard to make with South Park’s humor
Byleth vs Traveler- think it’s interesting and see it a lot, probably fun Han vs Kirk- “YES” everyone is on board and wants it, would be so fun
Jimmy Hopkins vs Karma- Bully is a weird pick for an ep but appreciated,
AssClass would also be fun Domino vs Ichiko- don’t know anything about it other than Domino is cool even if she is too weird in versus against another luck manipulator Makima vs Tooru- they wanna get CSM in soon, were interested in a JoFoe Royale with Tooru

So I guess the biggest things; - Zedd Skeletor and Kirk Han are basically absolutely happening - they wanna bring on Chainsawman - Really into Kira Adachi
 
Tipper17 said:
Ballot Matchups #3 discussion from a friend
Ciri vs Lucina- They wanna bring on Witcher, don’t know much about Lucina
Goku vs Goku- thought Super just kinda wins
Gogeta vs Omnimon- Don’t know much about Digimon but thought it would be debatable and it would be cool
Shuma Gorath vs Cthulhu- interesting but don’t know how to handle a cosmic horror battle and think Shuma probably stomps, Godzilla seemed to be the more interesting pick for Cthulhu
Darkrai vs Antasma- not really sure about it
Rayquaza vs Bahamut- didn’t really know how to handle Bahamut and if it’s a comp he probably stomps, but could be sick
Steve vs Terrain- Steve sounds weird versus wise but would be cool Kira vs Adachi- Liam really likes it, thinks it’s super thematic and would be very sick
Itachi vs Madoka- know Itachi… don’t know the other
Cell vs Xion- thought Xion was Sora, thought it was stupid but fits better than a lot of other fights for both Rick Grimes vs John Marston- thought the time gap was funny and would be fun
Generator Rex vs Eren- know Eren, vaguely know Rex. Thought it could be neat
Powerpuff Girls Z vs Witch Apprentices- vaguely know Z, like normal PPG a lot
Skeletor vs Zedd- love it, hard yes. Basically just a matter of time
Master Shake vs Eric Cartman- think it’s funny and have huge feats, would be hard to make with South Park’s humor
Byleth vs Traveler- think it’s interesting and see it a lot, probably fun Han vs Kirk- “YES” everyone is on board and wants it, would be so fun
Jimmy Hopkins vs Karma- Bully is a weird pick for an ep but appreciated,
AssClass would also be fun Domino vs Ichiko- don’t know anything about it other than Domino is cool even if she is too weird in versus against another luck manipulator Makima vs Tooru- they wanna get CSM in soon, were interested in a JoFoe Royale with Tooru

So I guess the biggest things; - Zedd Skeletor and Kirk Han are basically absolutely happening - they wanna bring on Chainsawman - Really into Kira Adachi
Click to expand...
Are some of these even thematic to begin with?🗿
 
Unrelated to anything, but I just finished Radiant Historia a couple of hours ago, and Shulk vs Stocke? Yeah, that's just became probably Shulk's best VS MU alongside Sora.

Both Radiant Historia and XC1 implicate Yoko Shimamura among their OSTs. Can Lightning say the same? No, no it can't.
 
fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
xg2kzikkcgl91.jpg

I will break my hand slamming down on that button to insure Bill Cipher VS Discord gets them to take MLP seriously after all 3 shit episodes. Dorito-stans can cope, seethe, mald, dilate, whatever the **** lingo 4chan shat out today for the next 8000 years for all I care. Through sheer willpower, I will not let Ben or the researchers **** this up or feed Bill to Shuma-Gorath/Dormmamu.
Click to expand...
I may never see Rubi Malone vs Revy, Reimu vs Ichigo, or Hod vs Rachel any other way
 
So, whilst I was working on my 25 most wanted matchups, I looked a little more into the debate aspect of Black Flash vs Castlevania Death. Put simply, it's getting its own dedicated blog post as well now. The following is what I've come to as a result of my own research.

Bare in mind that I'm not a real hardcore VS debater, this was relatively speaking pretty light research, but given everything I've seen, I like Death's chances:

+Has multiple ways of getting out of the Speed Force, so Black Flash can't just throw him in there and call it a day
+Should be immune to any time manipulation shenanigans that Black Flash attempts (has moved in frozen time, has acausality, cosmic awareness of other timelines) and has experience fighting time-travelling entities. Additionally, Black Flash's method of time stop specifically involves messing with the concept of time, and Creatures of Chaos like Death are removed from the concept of time. This meaning Death is not only immune to time stop, but especially Black Flash's specific method of time fuckery.
+Should be significantly smarter
+Immune to existence erasure
+More varied arsenal
+Can negate Black Flash's immortalities and regeneration
+Far as I can tell, Black Flash has no answer to plot manipulation
+Black Flash's go-to ability in combat (touch of death) is one Death would no-sell
+Black Flash has no holy weapons to help bypass Deaths invulnerability
+Even if Black Flash killed Death, he'd need to destroy the concept of Death to do it, meaning he'd have to take himself out as well, effectively making it a stalemate
=According to Flash vs Sonic, Black Flash has some sort of fate manipulation (?). This is mitigated or outright nullified by Deaths own fate manipulation as well as having fate manipulation resistance.
=Matches Black Flashes phasing with his intangibility and his non-physical interaction with his own (would their different methods of intangibility make much of a difference?)
=Black Flash might be vulnerable to soul manipulation (?). That said, I'm not comfortable putting this down as a definitive pro for Death, since while there's no evidence Black Flash can resist soul based attacks, there's (to my knowledge) no evidence Black Flash even has a soul in the first place. If anyone knows if Black Flash has a soul, let me know.
-Loses the stat trinity (low multiversal vs multiversal/multi+ and Infinite vs Immeasurable, though admittedly I'm guesstimating Black Flash here)
-Time Stop won't work on Black Flash

Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. This is way more VS than I normally get, so it'd be nice to know how accurate I was.

please don't tell me the matchup just comes down to haha 5D Speed Force go brrr gg
 
Last edited:
Tots_Real said:
You know here's a fun little thing about Gravity Falls in the official comic book there's a Substitution Cipher that reads "BILL LIVES" and said comic links to a page on the Disney website that links to other pages one of which has newspaper comic on it once of which has a ceaser cipher that translates to Cipher Lives... maybe mind whipping isn't the best wincon.
Click to expand...
They’d probably mention something like “while there’s implications Bill survived, there’s no concrete sources showing that he did, and such a method of taking him out would take him out of the fight for long enough to be considered a loss”
greymerlion2 said:
image.png

LMFAO
Click to expand...
IS THIS AN OFFICIAL REFERENCE IN A BEN 10 COMIC??????


Tipper17 said:
Ballot Matchups #3 discussion from a friend
Ciri vs Lucina- They wanna bring on Witcher, don’t know much about Lucina
Goku vs Goku- thought Super just kinda wins
Gogeta vs Omnimon- Don’t know much about Digimon but thought it would be debatable and it would be cool
Shuma Gorath vs Cthulhu- interesting but don’t know how to handle a cosmic horror battle and think Shuma probably stomps, Godzilla seemed to be the more interesting pick for Cthulhu
Darkrai vs Antasma- not really sure about it
Rayquaza vs Bahamut- didn’t really know how to handle Bahamut and if it’s a comp he probably stomps, but could be sick
Steve vs Terrain- Steve sounds weird versus wise but would be cool Kira vs Adachi- Liam really likes it, thinks it’s super thematic and would be very sick
Itachi vs Madoka- know Itachi… don’t know the other
Cell vs Xion- thought Xion was Sora, thought it was stupid but fits better than a lot of other fights for both Rick Grimes vs John Marston- thought the time gap was funny and would be fun
Generator Rex vs Eren- know Eren, vaguely know Rex. Thought it could be neat
Powerpuff Girls Z vs Witch Apprentices- vaguely know Z, like normal PPG a lot
Skeletor vs Zedd- love it, hard yes. Basically just a matter of time
Master Shake vs Eric Cartman- think it’s funny and have huge feats, would be hard to make with South Park’s humor
Byleth vs Traveler- think it’s interesting and see it a lot, probably fun Han vs Kirk- “YES” everyone is on board and wants it, would be so fun
Jimmy Hopkins vs Karma- Bully is a weird pick for an ep but appreciated,
AssClass would also be fun Domino vs Ichiko- don’t know anything about it other than Domino is cool even if she is too weird in versus against another luck manipulator Makima vs Tooru- they wanna get CSM in soon, were interested in a JoFoe Royale with Tooru

So I guess the biggest things; - Zedd Skeletor and Kirk Han are basically absolutely happening - they wanna bring on Chainsawman - Really into Kira Adachi
Click to expand...
They think Shuma stomps Cthulhu and Godzilla fits better? Huh, guess they’d only be using the original stuff.

Consider me 100% down for Godzilla v Cthulhu then lol
 
Kontororou said:
So, whilst I was working on my 25 most wanted matchups, I looked a little more into the debate aspect of Black Flash vs Castlevania Death. Put simply, it's getting its own dedicated blog post as well now. The following is what I've come to as a result of my own research.

Bare in mind that I'm not a real hardcore VS debater, this was relatively speaking pretty light research, but given everything I've seen, I like Death's chances:

+Has multiple ways of getting out of the Speed Force, so Black Flash can't just throw him in there and call it a day
+Should be immune to any time manipulation shenanigans that Black Flash attempts (has moved in frozen time, has acausality, cosmic awareness of other timelines) and has experience fighting time-travelling entities. Additionally, Black Flash's method of time stop specifically involves messing with the concept of time, and Creatures of Chaos like Death are removed from the concept of time. This meaning Death is not only immune to time stop, but especially Black Flash's specific method of time fuckery.
+Should be significantly smarter
+Immune to existence erasure
+More varied arsenal
+Can negate Black Flash's immortalities and regeneration
+Far as I can tell, Black Flash has no answer to plot manipulation
+Black Flash's go-to ability in combat (touch of death) is one Death would no-sell
+Black Flash has no holy weapons to help bypass Deaths invulnerability
+Even if Black Flash killed Death, he'd need to destroy the concept of Death to do it, meaning he'd have to take himself out as well, effectively making it a stalemate
=According to Flash vs Sonic, Black Flash has some sort of fate manipulation (?). This is mitigated or outright nullified by Deaths own fate manipulation as well as having fate manipulation resistance.
=Matches Black Flashes phasing with his intangibility and his non-physical interaction with his own (would their different methods of intangibility make much of a difference?)
=Black Flash might be vulnerable to soul manipulation (?). That said, I'm not comfortable putting this down as a definitive pro for Death, since while there's no evidence Black Flash can resist soul based attacks, there's (to my knowledge) no evidence Black Flash even has a soul in the first place. If anyone knows if Black Flash has a soul, let me know.
-Loses the stat trinity (low multiversal vs multiversal/multi+ and Infinite vs Immeasurable, though admittedly I'm guesstimating Black Flash here)
-Time Stop won't work on Black Flash

Feel free to correct me if I got anything wrong. This is way more VS than I normally get, so it'd be nice to know how accurate I was.

please don't tell me the matchup just comes down to haha 5D Speed Force go brrr gg
Click to expand...
From what I’ve gathered Black Flash loses, he has no way to bypass half of Death’s abilities nor kill him for good, and eventually he’d fall to Death. It’s a pretty cool MU all things considered.

Also that Wally v Sonic black flash having fate Manip stuff has literally no founding to my knowledge and I’m not sure where they got that from literally at all lol. Their argument was basically “Wally can break fate because he escaped the personification of death by time travelling to a point in time where death doesn’t exist” which is not a viable argument against fate Manip lol
 
Chronicplane said:
Vegito20versus20Saitama20202.png

DBZ Vegito vs Manga Saitama, FYI; Testing the Waters

Thoughts?
Hmmm.png
Click to expand...
Can’t Saitama’s Serious Punch2 from the manga get a 3C calc? He could likely be stronger.

His advanced development would probably let him keep up with whatever boost super Saiyan and higher forms would give, as well as just, copying their techniques as the fight goes on if his Garou fight is anything to go on.

I’m assuming he doesn’t have time travel as an ability for this MU as well?
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
From what I’ve gathered Black Flash loses, he has no way to bypass half of Death’s abilities nor kill him for good, and eventually he’d fall to Death. It’s a pretty cool MU all things considered.

Also that Wally v Sonic black flash having fate Manip stuff has literally no founding to my knowledge and I’m not sure where they got that from literally at all lol. Their argument was basically “Wally can break fate because he escaped the personification of death by time travelling to a point in time where death doesn’t exist” which is not a viable argument against fate Manip lol
Click to expand...
Asking: why Death would serve Dracula when Death has so many time hax on his side? Does Dracula just resist all of them by default or "story setting" or where else?

And... Since you are talking about Flash characters...

Anyone wants to talk about Jay Garrick and Kid Flash?

(August Heart would be feasting on Garou btw)
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
They’d probably mention something like “while there’s implications Bill survived, there’s no concrete sources showing that he did, and such a method of taking him out would take him out of the fight for long enough to be considered a loss”

IS THIS AN OFFICIAL REFERENCE IN A BEN 10 COMIC??????



They think Shuma stomps Cthulhu and Godzilla fits better? Huh, guess they’d only be using the original stuff.

Consider me 100% down for Godzilla v Cthulhu then lol
Click to expand...
Why are they against compositing Cthulhu? Without later additions to the Mythos, he basically has nothing.
 
Chronicplane said:
Decided to give my first crack at making one of these, the actual making of it took a lot longer than I'd liked to have hoped but at least now I got the hang of it so next time should be much smoother.

Thoughts?, changes?
All_Might_vs_Meruem_1.png
Click to expand...
Aint no way you said All Might has equal skill to Meruem

Meruem is like one of the top skill goats of any shounen character in pure brawling

I agree with everything else though, All Might would kick his shit in

Also why do we count his sickness in Post-Rose as a valid detriment? Don't we usually ignore that type of thing when debating comes around?

Like it's not like it's the form itself that does that he just happened to be poisoned at that time
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I mean.... isn't Cthulhu wayyyy out of Godzilla's league? I'd rather he fight someone more cosmic horror-ish as well

However if Godzilla wins I rescind that statement and put my full support behind this MU
Click to expand...
On this site, we have him rated at High 6-B, so by our standards at least, Godzilla has him stomped in pure AP and durability. I'm betting there's other stuff to look at though, especially if Death Battle decided to use extended Lovecraft "canon" and official adaptations. For connections, there's not much other than, "giant monsters who live under the sea," but with how Death Battle does character analysis now, and especially how they did Vegito vs. Gogeta, I think this fight could lend itself to a cool meta analysis.

It'd need to focus on how both are representations of horror in their most integral aspects (or at least the horrors humanity has to face). Cthulhu is the byproduct of Lovecraft's overwhelming fear of the terrors that could lie beyond human understanding. Whether from the void of space or the depths of the ocean, Cthulhu ultimately personifies the primal fear of the unknown. Godzilla, meanwhile, is a representation of human folly. He acts as both a force of nature and as an example of our greatest sins. Godzilla is the personification of the very real threat of nuclear Armageddon. It's a battle between a fear of the unknown, and a fear of the natural. Regardless, both are a reality check that reminds us of just how small we really are.
 
Seen everyone else do it so I'm giving it a shot as well, been doing some things for Legend of Zelda and Kid Icarus and this seemed neat (You'll notice they don't have these stats in their VSBW profiles lmao). Ignore the picture for Hylia being Zelda, the only official depictions we have of Hylia are weird looking statues and a glorified stick figure (Not that it matters much since Zelda has a similar appearance to Hylia if the manga is anything to go by).

ho7VoVV.png
 
Jasonsith said:
Asking: why Death would serve Dracula when Death has so many time hax on his side? Does Dracula just resist all of them by default or "story setting" or where else?

And... Since you are talking about Flash characters...

Anyone wants to talk about Jay Garrick and Kid Flash?

(August Heart would be feasting on Garou btw)
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure Dracula is just superior to Death in basically every way lol.


fandom_0ホルスファルコン将軍0 said:
Why are they against compositing Cthulhu? Without later additions to the Mythos, he basically has nothing.
Click to expand...
I dunno, they didn’t talk much about it but I’m sure there’s SOME reason.


Hunterzillas said:
On this site, we have him rated at High 6-B, so by our standards at least, Godzilla has him stomped in pure AP and durability. I'm betting there's other stuff to look at though, especially if Death Battle decided to use extended Lovecraft "canon" and official adaptations. For connections, there's not much other than, "giant monsters who live under the sea," but with how Death Battle does character analysis now, and especially how they did Vegito vs. Gogeta, I think this fight could lend itself to a cool meta analysis.

It'd need to focus on how both are representations of horror in their most integral aspects (or at least the horrors humanity has to face). Cthulhu is the byproduct of Lovecraft's overwhelming fear of the terrors that could lie beyond human understanding. Whether from the void of space or the depths of the ocean, Cthulhu ultimately personifies the primal fear of the unknown. Godzilla, meanwhile, is a representation of human folly. He acts as both a force of nature and as an example of our greatest sins. Godzilla is the personification of the very real threat of nuclear Armageddon. It's a battle between a fear of the unknown, and a fear of the natural. Regardless, both are a reality check that reminds us of just how small we really are.
Click to expand...
yeah Liam mentioned he liked the MU because of “how different the two were” so I’m sure he had the thematic contrast in mind. I think we could get an awesome ******* episode out of it tbh.
 
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