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Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

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Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I'm pretty sure Outerversal Persona only occurred a while after the episode aired.

IIRC they don't buy Outerversal Persona for 3-5 but would for P1-2? Based on the hearsey we've gotten regarding what they buy for SMT& SMT Scaling.

Also they do care about the stats of this site, the researchers frequently reference it and have used it for baseline research before, even as recently as Ultraguy's Bowser blog he mentions there being translation issues for one the Power Stars feats, which were brought up here on this site to downgrade (well, technically upgrade) them. I'm pretty sure there's even been one or two instances of them using exact calcs that VSBW has as well. They do pay attention to our stats, and if nothing else, use them as a baseline when researching, they just aren't always guaranteed to agree..
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If they borrow from this site later on the profile split would actually upgrade Mario characters quite a bit since they wouldn't be able to be argued as "outliers" anymore.

Also I personally hate how Galaxy isn't considered Uni+ anymore. The reasons are so dumb. We have every reason to believe the universe got reset because it's literally common sense that anyone outside this site acknowledges, but for some reason we have to be extra unique and pedantic and say it's only a galaxy level feat.
 
Theburgerking11 said:
It's Salem(RWBY) vs Sauron...your reaction?
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Should've been Salem (RWBY) VS Toad (Mario Bros.)
Theburgerking11 said:
episodes with women, especially if both are women or if the woman wins always under perform, Desk of DB getting mediocre views, no female character teased for the rest of the season

Death Battle and their audience are sexist af
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Jasonsith said:
I would not call Death Battle sexist.

Episodes with women, especially if both are women or if the woman wins always under perform < this is a general phenomenon but this can be more contributed to the fact that the animators (whom a significant some are female) does relatively poor in capturing the charm.
Also for the fact that some characters - regardless of sex and gender and gender orientation - rely on hax which are hard to represent and maintain a charm in a Death Battle. (Remember: there are a huge lot of female characters at Japanese ACGN works.)
You may actually them feminist however due to the fact that female characters have a significantly bigger win rate than male characters and some are done either by picking significantly weaker male opponents or by "poorly made if not blatantly rigged" research - or both.

Desk of Death Battle getting mediocre views is more of a problem for the series itself.

Maybe the female opponents are actually intentionally hidden for surprise. Who knows.
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Theburgerking11 said:
yeah you're right, its just how things are. it's not going to go away. I think its about the same for WWE. I remembered the women match-ups being discarded with most fans online rolling their eyes at the women fights, though I heard nowadays WWE Women fights are taken more seriously-who knows really

Just the nature of VS i guess.
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Jasonsith said:
I hate how people boiled down this phenomenon into sexism instead of really discussing why the crew have over ten years of experience and is still doing relatively bad in capturing the charm of female characters fighting and therefore have the female vs female episodes generally less popular?
(Or, they picked the wrong female vs female matchups for episodes?)
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I'm going to speculate and guess and probably pull something outta my butt, it could be that VS debating involving fictional characters fighting could be seen as a boys thing, or at least a nerdy boys thing. Many classic VS matchups are mainly manly men and rarely has classic matchups featuring female vs male or female. Obviously as time goes on, boys and girls can join together to debate to see which characters duke it out and much more varied matchups arrived but remnants of it are still there.

Again, I'm just guessing/spitballing and I could be wrong and it isn't sexism and instead DB just not capturing the female vs female fights right until Black Widow VS Widowmaker or Harley Quinn VS Jinx. (looks nervously at some of my most wanted MUs)
Jimmy.robinson.5099 said:
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JoshDoshMosh said:
Imagine if they fused
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NmIzMmNhYjY0YQ


Gotta say, that would be badass.

JoshDoshMosh said:
You guys think the CoD series has any worthwhile protagonist for Death Battle? I remember there was a matchup with a character from Battle Field I really digged but then I lost it
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Aside from Dr. Richtofen, not really. Many of them seem pretty generic and don't really stand out compared to other shooter protagonists.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
If they borrow from this site later on the profile split would actually upgrade Mario characters quite a bit since they wouldn't be able to be argued as "outliers" anymore.

Also I personally hate how Galaxy isn't considered Uni+ anymore. The reasons are so dumb. We have every reason to believe the universe got reset because it's literally common sense that anyone outside this site acknowledges, but for some reason we have to be extra unique and pedantic and say it's only a galaxy level feat.
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Well, they source this site, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll buy everything or how we present it. They'll just take note of everything and grade it their own way, especially since people such as Ultraguy already have a Bowser blog with pretty comprehensive research. There would still be all the same issues of outliers because you'd still be taking different variations of the character across conflicting profiles that would result in different issues and anti-feats and outliers.

Also I can see Galaxy's ending thing being a universal reset, I just don't think it would scale to anyone in the verse due to it being caused by a massive congregation of Luma's re-verting the power of a black hole, and then causing a universal reset/timeline reset or something. It's pretty unclear WHAT exactly occurs but it's clearly well beyond any of the main protags and only possible because of the group effort, the protags just get transported back to their planet.

I'd assume it would have to be a reset of some kind because otherwise Galaxy 2's plot makes no ******* sense since the Star Festivals are stated to only happen every 100 years. Unless you want to just buy the idea that Miyamoto presented with every game just being a play played out by a troupe of actors, but then nothing within this series would actually count as a feat lol.

Otherwise I only really think characters should be Galaxy level off of the Grand Star stuff, and even then I have problems with so liberally smacking a ******* 3C rating on damn near every character in the verse, feels a little ridiculous to me.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
People are under the impression time travel wouldn't work for Silver VS Trunks apparently so that's probably not a wincon.

Silver sending Trunks to space and suffocating him is probably what they view as Silver's only decent strategy to win.
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This is honestly pretty funny, DB characters can nuke the universe a fucktillion times over but can't survive the destruction they end up causing after the fact, lol.

Cyberblader90 said:
g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com

Death Battle Predictions: Gojo VS Makima

 (Makima art by å¾æ©10å ) Spoiler Warning: Both Jujutsu Kaisen and Chainsaw Man are ongoing series, with the manga for JJK being frequently ...
g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com
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Gonna avoid reading this until I finish CSM, but neat to see they finished it, I hear Makima loses this and frankly I'm ok with Makima getting bodied so far LOL
 
TheGreatMaster12 said:
What do you mean? Will vs Deku is based as hell, but not as based as All For One vs The Annihilator.
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Okay not going to lie, Will vs Deku I unironically would love to see lol, with it's possibilities of a charismatic and an episode with personality potential far better than those other MUs. (man sky high talk about a nostalgia movie)
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I mean I'd still like it, I love inFAMOUS and it'd be a dope fight, but this really is an example of just completely passing on the chance for an EP. This totally should've been a Season 2 fight, Torrian would've made it go so hard.
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I’d gladly live in an alternate universe where Cole vs Alex was an episode and Crash vs Spyro is the video game rivalry people still clamor for.
 
greymerlion2 said:
I’d gladly live in an alternate universe where Cole vs Alex was an episode and Crash vs Spyro is the video game rivalry people still clamor for.
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Honestly same, I was pretty underwhelmed with Crash v Spyro, didn't like how they handled it, it wasn't even the Crash v Spyro most people wanted to see anyways (original canon Crash v og canon Spyro lol)
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
I mean I'd still like it, I love inFAMOUS and it'd be a dope fight, but this really is an example of just completely passing on the chance for an EP. This totally should've been a Season 2 fight, Torrian would've made it go so hard.
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Yeah Infamous... This should be a fight already and at least two overdue matchups are there...
(Like Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer has not yet come into being and Korra is sacrificed to Storm instead of Delsin Rowe)

Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff said:
(Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer)
Should've been done it when the hype was there. Folks don't even want it anymore lol
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Sad.
Why is THAT not at Season 5 or Season 8?
This (Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer) is a super well requested matchup and a legacy matchup.

And Ultraguy claims there are vacant slots to fill so they have Goku Black vs Reverse-Flash.
 
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Lawyerr said:
I quite liked Shazam vs Captain Marvel. The fight wasn't too spectacular, but I feel they captured their comic personalities pretty good.

Android 18 vs Captain Marvel was forgettable af though
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Shazam carried the fight if I’m being honest.

18 vs Carol is actually remembered, though it’s because they blatantly screwed up on 18 having energy absorption, and everyone could point out it was wrong.

If I had to guess why these episodes were more forgettable, bog standard choreography and presentation. They’re sprite fights between two flying bricks with DBZ inspired rapid action. It’s basically the fast food of Death Battle. Not bad, but I prefer full meals.

Stuff like ReverseBlack or Thorgeta are different because of a multitude of factors. For one, characters are far more recognizable, the music is incredibly good, and the banter and interactions are memorable to the point of being memed.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
Well, they source this site, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll buy everything or how we present it. They'll just take note of everything and grade it their own way, especially since people such as Ultraguy already have a Bowser blog with pretty comprehensive research. There would still be all the same issues of outliers because you'd still be taking different variations of the character across conflicting profiles that would result in different issues and anti-feats and outliers.

Also I can see Galaxy's ending thing being a universal reset, I just don't think it would scale to anyone in the verse due to it being caused by a massive congregation of Luma's re-verting the power of a black hole, and then causing a universal reset/timeline reset or something. It's pretty unclear WHAT exactly occurs but it's clearly well beyond any of the main protags and only possible because of the group effort, the protags just get transported back to their planet.

I'd assume it would have to be a reset of some kind because otherwise Galaxy 2's plot makes no ******* sense since the Star Festivals are stated to only happen every 100 years. Unless you want to just buy the idea that Miyamoto presented with every game just being a play played out by a troupe of actors, but then nothing within this series would actually count as a feat lol.

Otherwise I only really think characters should be Galaxy level off of the Grand Star stuff, and even then I have problems with so liberally smacking a ******* 3C rating on damn near every character in the verse, feels a little ridiculous to me.
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The Grand Star powers the reactor though and is considered > Power Stars which Lumas can turn into. It's power can be scaled to the Lumas since they had to counter the black hole it made.

Also no, I don't think there can be outliers. The anti-feats people use against this verse apply to literally every ******* videogame verse. The entire notion is completely dumb. Guess every FE character is human level because they die to just basic stabs in canonical story cutscenes with no powers or abilities being used. Sonic? Can get knocked out by being thrown into a wall hard enough. Link? Lol he gets a casual bitch slap from Ganon and is down, gets knocked out from being flung or shot large distances, etc.

It's just so dumb to be so pedantic for only Mario.
 
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Foxthefox1000 said:
The Grand Star powers the reactor though and is considered > Power Stars which Lumas can turn into. It's power can be scaled to the Lumas since they had to counter the black hole it made.

Also no, I don't think there can be outliers. The anti-feats people use against this verse apply to literally every ******* videogame verse. The entire notion is completely dumb. Guess every FE character is human level because they die to just basic stabs in canonical story cutscenes with no powers or abilities being used. Sonic? Can get knocked out by being thrown into a wall hard enough. Link? Lol he gets a casual bitch slap from Ganon and is down, gets knocked out from being flung or shot large distances, etc.

It's just so dumb to be so pedantic for only Mario.
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It was still a massive group of Lumas congregating a massive amount of energy in order to overpower it, we can't really scale a single Luma to the full force of it to then continue downscaling from there. I'm not sure how Lumas turning into Power Stars would make them comparable either, when Lumas can also turn into things significantly less powerful than them such as planetoids or the launch stars, it'd be a little silly to compare them just off of that.

A lot of the anti-feats in Mario aren't just simple gameplay related things, and in fact I usually see verses get more scrutiny/pedantism than Mario, it's generally something that bothers me a lot lol. Bowser getting ******* btfo'd several times by things he should be able to tank otherwise no problem and nearly dying, needing to be literally resuscitated and amped is a particularly egregious one, and there's plenty more, I just don't have the time to dig atm.

I don't really know anything about FE so I can't comment there lol, and my Zelda knowledge isn't he most impressive but didn't Link get backhanded by Ganon when he was a kid? That seems pretty reasonable and even if it isn't, would be one outlier for one iteration of Link compared to a series of constantly fluxuating feats or power. In terms of Sonic though, the major Sonic jobbs I can think of are things like getting slapped to hell and back by Time Eater (who is 2C), having his energy absorbed in Unleashed then dropped to Earth, they're usually less noticeable than Mario's in cutscene questionability.

Anyways I think getting Mario to Galaxy level is.... fine... I won't really voice many complaints there, but anything beyond that is very spotty imo, the only thing that seems possibly usable is Antasma scaling ?
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
It was still a massive group of Lumas congregating a massive amount of energy in order to overpower it, we can't really scale a single Luma to the full force of it to then continue downscaling from there. I'm not sure how Lumas turning into Power Stars would make them comparable either, when Lumas can also turn into things significantly less powerful than them such as planetoids or the launch stars, it'd be a little silly to compare them just off of that.

A lot of the anti-feats in Mario aren't just simple gameplay related things, and in fact I usually see verses get more scrutiny/pedantism than Mario, it's generally something that bothers me a lot lol. Bowser getting ******* btfo'd several times by things he should be able to tank otherwise no problem and nearly dying, needing to be literally resuscitated and amped is a particularly egregious one, and there's plenty more, I just don't have the time to dig atm.
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JoJo and Metal Gear are like two of the biggest examples from my experience, people will fight tooth and nail against accepting even the least generous scaling.
 
Crash vs Spyro was good besides odd ending & autism thing. It is like the only ep I really wanted since I gew up with them.

Marvel vs Marvel is such a nothing burger. I guess Shazam ATM intro is fine and like, he tried the self lightning to hurt Carol but... meh. The kill was literally just a punch and track was like 1-2 mins extra long because the fight was nothing. Unironically might actually be in Top 10 worst S6-> episodes in modern DB, its such nothingness.

Cole vs Alex should've been at Boba vs Samus remake, that one should've been pushed to ep 50 and GvS2 I guess at ep 100 I guess.
 
Kirbonic_Pikmin said:
It was still a massive group of Lumas congregating a massive amount of energy in order to overpower it, we can't really scale a single Luma to the full force of it to then continue downscaling from there. I'm not sure how Lumas turning into Power Stars would make them comparable either, when Lumas can also turn into things significantly less powerful than them such as planetoids or the launch stars, it'd be a little silly to compare them just off of that.

A lot of the anti-feats in Mario aren't just simple gameplay related things, and in fact I usually see verses get more scrutiny/pedantism than Mario, it's generally something that bothers me a lot lol. Bowser getting ******* btfo'd several times by things he should be able to tank otherwise no problem and nearly dying, needing to be literally resuscitated and amped is a particularly egregious one, and there's plenty more, I just don't have the time to dig atm.

I don't really know anything about FE so I can't comment there lol, and my Zelda knowledge isn't he most impressive but didn't Link get backhanded by Ganon when he was a kid? That seems pretty reasonable and even if it isn't, would be one outlier for one iteration of Link compared to a series of constantly fluxuating feats or power. In terms of Sonic though, the major Sonic jobbs I can think of are things like getting slapped to hell and back by Time Eater (who is 2C), having his energy absorbed in Unleashed then dropped to Earth, they're usually less noticeable than Mario's in cutscene questionability.

Anyways I think getting Mario to Galaxy level is.... fine... I won't really voice many complaints there, but anything beyond that is very spotty imo, the only thing that seems possibly usable is Antasma scaling ?
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Bowser is literally the verse punching bag. Due to Mario's varying capabilities because of Miyamoto's vision, so too does Bowser have to vary in power level. Also, the fact Mario is the one most consistently beating on Bowser makes it consistent.

You can make excuses for other verses but we can do the same for Mario. You need stakes in a story, most of the anti-feats just show that the AP of something else scales, etc.

Bowser has consistently survived lava baths yet dies to it in one game. Bowser takes beatings from amped people and base characters all the time who all are generally comparable to each other. Any "boss" character also scales logically. Bowser throughout BiS has near death experiences for the plot and boss mechanic and all of the latter cases involve characters or things who should logically be stronger than the first thing that does it to him, making these anti-feats inconsistent in the game they're in themselves. Characters avoid getting crushed all the time despite being capable of feat greater than building level and even LS feats consistently better so I hate the ******* crushing argument the original arguments used. What are these cases you're talking about that can't be explained away by any of the things I said?
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
What are these cases you're talking about that can't be explained away by any of the things I said?
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I can't give them right now or really break down anything you said, cause its like, 2am and my birthday, so I'll be busy for a few days. I'd have to dig through some stuff because Mario's such a big franchise there's several examples to pull from. It's part of why compositing it and all its sub-franchises usually results in these issues.

I'm not someone to push the verse to like Tier 9 or anything, that's silly, but I just think a lot of its stuff ranging into stellar and onwards is usually questionable one way or the other.
 
greymerlion2 said:
JoJo and Metal Gear are like two of the biggest examples from my experience, people will fight tooth and nail against accepting even the least generous scaling.
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I was in a Monsoon vs Pyrrha thread, and this guy was swearing up and down that Blade Mode doesn’t actually increase Raiden’s speed. Their whole argument boiled down to “uh well, it doesn’t explicitly state that Blade Mode increases Raiden’s speed”, despite the gameplay, guidebooks, dialogue all suggesting otherwise.

Same guy later tried to argue that Pyrrha scales to feats literal volumes after her death. I would’ve sworn he was trolling if he wasn’t so sincere.
 
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