Death Battle Season Nine Discussion Thread (1) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[TMaakkonen]

So for verdicts, how do you feel about those that dont focus on stats? Since close stats are actually rare in DB, the chances of there being "characters have 2 feats that look similar, but are actually different when calced" doesn't really happen much. Would you say that verdict's dont need pure stats, if they can do just enough with implications only and good analysis on how other abilities interact?

 

[Derpmaster9000]

So for verdicts, how do you feel about those that dont focus on stats? Since close stats are actually rare in DB, the chances of there being "characters have 2 feats that look similar, but are actually different when calced" doesn't really happen much. Would you say that verdict's dont need pure stats, if they can do just enough with implications only and good analysis on how other abilities interact?

I mean, when its blatantly obvious to the point numbers are unnecessary, yeah. Like say two characters, by their admission, are similar in speed, but one is like universal while the other is like galaxy level. No need for number crunching on that, since I'm pretty sure everyone's aware of the size difference between the two, lol.

 

[Mariogoods]

Sun Wukong:
-Has a super form while his opponent doesn't have
-Is immortal
-Attack first in preview
-G1 Blog put him "slower and weaker"
-The narrator's name being referred as a name appeared in Greek myths
-The OST has much Greek myths elements
-The scroll is in Greek myths style
-Death Battle Team's knowledge in Sun Wukong's series is lower than their knowledge of Greek myth
-Less sources. Herc can take all his myths while Sun Wukong can only take JttW
-Death Battle tradition as demonstrated in Wanda VS Zatanna

Herc automatically wins. I don't see how Sun Wukong wins this with so many death flags.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Thoughts of a Godzilla Battle Royale?, personally that is the only good returning Godzilla MU and could be a really fun one

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Anyways my thoughts on the possible verdict so far, coming from someone who grew up on Greek Mythology and has a recent affinity for Wukong:

I think Herc veeeerry likely has a big AP advantage here, speed seems to be pretty up to debate depending on which calcs for Herc you use, either being comparable or massively faster, his Hydra arrows are a pretty big advantage and he definitely has ways he could **** up or maybe even incapacitate Wukong...

...but...

I really, really don't see a way he could fully get past Wukong? He seems just far, far too massively haxxed for Herc to fully contend with. He has what, 7 layers of immortality, damn good regen, the ability to duplicate into similarly effective in combat clones, who can then duplicate themselves for millions to BILLIONS of clones swarming the battlefield, the ability to escape and return to the battlefield at anytime, the ability to freeze Herc outright, manipulate space to control the battlefield, being able to grow to the size of the universe and dwarf Herc, being able to shrink and enter Herc's body before destroying him from the inside (either through brutal internal attacks or Antman-Thanos'ing him, both of which are in character for him to my knowledge).

I really think the clones are just, an insane boon for him. Having ******* billions of copies swarming the area would be too much for Herc to disable at once, even with the speed advantage I think, and Wukong would be perceptive enough to try and snick his weapons (something he also does several times). If one of Wukong's clones steals his Hydra arrows, that would secure Herc's own loss since he was killed by the poison of one of his own arrows (or at least driven to death by it). There's even an argument for Wukong being able to at least SURVIVE the Hydra poison arrows via having survived being poisoned by a scorpion that injured the Buddha himself (not to mention the sheer density of clones and Wukong's own ability to deflect the arrows could likely save him from that fate at all).

Herc is a ******* gigachad but I dunno if he can push through this one...

don’t forget he can turn Invisible

invoke seizures onto other people.

Force herc to sleep for weeks

And become Ether (intangible)


oh did we forget he is immune/resistant to fire

so if herc pulls the hydra thingy he ain’t cauterizing sun wukong

 

[Jasonsith]

NGL if next time is just Boba vs Predator that feels kinda lame after this exciting MU.

But remember that Boba Fett has already been teased.

Sun Wukong:
-Has a super form while his opponent doesn't have
-Is immortal
-Attack first in preview
-G1 Blog put him "slower and weaker"
-The narrator's name being referred as a name appeared in Greek myths
-The OST has much Greek myths elements
-The scroll is in Greek myths style
-Death Battle Team's knowledge in Sun Wukong's series is lower than their knowledge of Greek myth
-Less sources. Herc can take all his myths while Sun Wukong can only take JttW
-Death Battle tradition as demonstrated in Wanda VS Zatanna

Herc automatically wins. I don't see how Sun Wukong wins this with so many death flags.

No wonder Death Battle conspiracies are so common around the world.

I used to be think Wukong has it in the bag, now I am not so sure.

But
1. Sun Wukong having a super form is actually not a death flag - Hercules having surprisingly more arsenal than Wukong has is the death flag on Wukong.
2. OST has much Greek myths elements is not a death flag on Wukong - OST has much Greek myths elements near the end of the OST is the death flag.
3. (Need more explanation on the Death Battle tradition as demonstrated in Wanda VS Zatanna - is it basically overlapping with those signs you previously listed)

Others sound reasonable - I would add that

• G1 bloggers usually predicted the correct outcome (except for, ironically, Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna).
• (can just be a supporting point to a previous point) Therewolf Media has a big tendency to spoil away the winner (or even the whole script).

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

But remember that Boba Fett has already been teased.


No wonder Death Battle conspiracies are so common around the world.

I used to be think Wukong has it in the bag, now I am not so sure.

But
1. Sun Wukong having a super form is actually not a death flag - Hercules having surprisingly more arsenal than Wukong has is the death flag on Wukong.
2. OST has much Greek myths elements is not a death flag on Wukong - OST has much Greek myths elements near the end of the OST is the death flag.
3. (Need more explanation on the Death Battle tradition as demonstrated in Wanda VS Zatanna - is it basically overlapping with those signs you previously listed)

Others sound reasonable - I would add that

• G1 bloggers usually predicted the correct outcome (except for, ironically, Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna).
• (can just be a supporting point to a previous point) Therewolf Media has a big tendency to spoil away the winner (or even the whole script).

But i seriously Don’t think he can pull the hydra thing if wukong is immune to fire

 

[Jasonsith]

But i seriously Don’t think he can pull the hydra thing if wukong is immune to fire

Not thinking Herc can negate Wukong's regen with fire.
Rather Herc would just poison Wukong to death. Like the time Wukong faced a "bug type" scorpion demoness with poison that can harm even the buddha, instead of just killing her the normal way with his own awesome powers and abilities and stat standings, he asked for Sailor Hairy Head a "Hairy Head star officer" to transform into a flying type rooster and crowed the scorpion to death. Oh it is also part of the story that Wukong could not defeat her by himself and relied on external help and a "super effective" attack move from a character with type advantage. Wukong did not die but he did need to escape to concentrate and rest to pull the poison away. And Herc's hydra poison is so poisonous it could hurt gods so hard 'they gave up immortality'. And even Herc's mortal part of body succumbed to the poisons over time.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

But remember that Boba Fett has already been teased.


No wonder Death Battle conspiracies are so common around the world.

I used to be think Wukong has it in the bag, now I am not so sure.

But
1. Sun Wukong having a super form is actually not a death flag - Hercules having surprisingly more arsenal than Wukong has is the death flag on Wukong.
2. OST has much Greek myths elements is not a death flag on Wukong - OST has much Greek myths elements near the end of the OST is the death flag.
3. (Need more explanation on the Death Battle tradition as demonstrated in Wanda VS Zatanna - is it basically overlapping with those signs you previously listed)

Others sound reasonable - I would add that

• G1 bloggers usually predicted the correct outcome (except for, ironically, Scarlet Witch vs Zatanna).
• (can just be a supporting point to a previous point) Therewolf Media has a big tendency to spoil away the winner (or even the whole script).

Also did a horrible job of predicting Hulk vs Broly, lol.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Not thinking Herc can negate Wukong's regen with fire.
Rather Herc would just poison Wukong to death. Like the time Wukong faced a "bug type" scorpion demoness with poison that can harm even the buddha, instead of just killing her the normal way with his own awesome powers and abilities and stat standings, he asked for Sailor Hairy Head a "Hairy Head star officer" to transform into a flying type rooster and crowed the scorpion to death. Oh it is also part of the story that Wukong could not defeat her by himself and relied on external help and a "super effective" attack move from a character with type advantage.

but one could argue about dodging the arrows/reflecting them or the poison is actually a resistance feat. Since wukong survived the poison that could even harm the Buddha.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm either going to be really mad or really happy this time tomorrow.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

I love how the tone dramatically shifted in this MU lmao.

 

[Mariogoods]

Not thinking Herc can negate Wukong's regen with fire.
Rather Herc would just poison Wukong to death. Like the time Wukong faced a "bug type" scorpion demoness with poison that can harm even the buddha, instead of just killing her the normal way with his own awesome powers and abilities and stat standings, he asked for Sailor Hairy Head a "Hairy Head star officer" to transform into a flying type rooster and crowed the scorpion to death. Oh it is also part of the story that Wukong could not defeat her by himself and relied on external help and a "super effective" attack move from a character with type advantage. Wukong did not die but he did need to escape to concentrate and rest to pull the poison away. And Herc's hydra poison is so poisonous it could hurt gods so hard 'they gave up immortality'. And even Herc's mortal part of body succumbed to the poisons over time.

If you are interested, you can watch the flame war surrounding Hercwukong somewhere tomorrow.

 

[Jasonsith]

If you are interested, you can watch the flame war surrounding Hercwukong somewhere tomorrow. The upcoming comment if Wukong loses would make me a Herc supporter by comparison.

***** or ********? You may send me a PM if you wished to keep it really private.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

***** or ********? You may send me a PM if you wished to keep it really private.

yeah but doesn’t sun have another 71 lives and stuff

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

yeah but doesn’t sun have another 71 lives and stuff

That's another thing. Sun Wukong has to mess up BADLY and die 71 times over. If you can't win within 71 retries just stop.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

That's another thing. Sun Wukong has to mess up BADLY and die 71 times over. If you can't win within 71 retries just stop.

do you really think the hydra poison could even kill wukong if wukong could survive a sting from a scorpion that could harm the Buddha though.

Plus Hercules can’t remove that immortality from laozi’s elixir if it’s wukongs entire body

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

This smells of Diocurd lol

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

This smells of Diocurd lol

⏱ GG

 

[Jasonsith]

yeah but doesn’t sun have another 71 lives and stuff

That's another thing. Sun Wukong has to mess up BADLY and die 71 times over. If you can't win within 71 retries just stop.

Last time Alucard has 3,424,867 souls and his own low godly regeneration (and mid-godly with Schrodinger).

This smells of Diocard lol

In fact,by typical Death Battle fashion I already has the flowing images in mind...

Spoiler

An ancient scroll unfurls onscreen as a painted mountain manifests. Our tale begins up top a great mountain, where the mighty Heracles sought a gift from the Gods.

The legendary demigod finishes his trek up the mountain and calls out to the nearby Monkey King, Sun Wukong, who is sitting atop his Nimbus cloud and holding a divine fruit in his hand.

Hercules: sigh You intercepted my masters' gifts.

Sun Wukong: Funny, I was just thinking about prepping my master's food.

Undeterred by his threat, Heracles approaches his foe, taunting him into battle.

Hercules: Then by all means, take a bite.

The hero's satisfaction turns to indignation as he crushes the illusory fruit in his hand, revealing it to merely be strands of Wukong's hair. With his scheme discovered, the trickster god pulls out a miniaturized Ruyi Jingu Bang from his ear and enlarges it to its standard size. Laughing with glee, he leaps from his cloud and clashes with Hercules' sword, the Monkey King's strike rang true, but he would not so easily overwhelm the God of Strength.

Hercules: laughs Checkmate!

Locked in a clash of weapons, Hercules slashes at Wukong, who dissipates into smoke. The monkey flies behind Hercules on his Nimbus and jabs the hero in the gut with his staff, sending him flying into a cliff below. The mighty demigod is hardly phased though and springs back with a powerful dropkick against the advancing Wukong, sending them down another level.

Hercules: How oh so very weak, dog. You thought you'd triumph, but it was I...

As they both land, Hercules attempts to slash him with his sword once again, but Sun Wukong disappears in a smoke cloud and strikes Hercules with his Ruyi Jingu Bang. As Hercules lies on the ground, the Monkey King extends the staff and brings it down on the hero who raises his sword to block the strike, only for the blade to shatter.

---

Forming a massive shadow arm, Wukong throws a punch towards Hercules, while the bastard son of Zeus prepares to throw a punch of his own. Before they can clash, Hercules blitzes, disappearing from Wukong's sight and reappearing behind him, striking his infamous pose with ゴ (menacing) kanji floating around him. The Great Sage Equal to Heaven can only look on in shock as the Zero-to-Hero gloats over Wukong's "uselessness".

Hercules: Useless, useless, useless... MUDA!

He proclaims as such and punches through Wukong's chest and grabs his golden apple (which was eaten by Wukong himself) out. Heracles unleashes a vicious rush with hydra arrows as spears on his now vulnerable foe, who can do nothing against the barrage.

Hercules: MUDA MUDA! MUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDAMUDA! MUDAA!

Hercules ends with one final blow that reduces Wukong to a bloody smear, before immediately proceeding to dive back down to the ground and pose victoriously beneath the shower of blood that once was the Monkey King, who now remains dead for good.

Hercules: WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

A "The End" screen reminiscent of the "To Be Continued" screen from JoJo in greek style fonts pops up, closing the fight out.

---

Anyone tries to "modify" a prior Death Battle fight into one where Wukong wins?

 

[Tipper17]

This fight is a lot more Debatable than how some looked at it but I feel Sun has more on his side tbf

 

[Mariogoods]

Anyone tries to "modify" a prior Death Battle fight into one where Wukong wins?

I have done it in the comment section of Death Battle Wiki page. Here are some:

Spoiler: "HercWukong"

Hercules: Useless, useless, useless... DISTANCE!

He proclaims as such and calls upon The God of Strength to punch through Sun Wukong's chest and crush his heart. Hercules unleashes a vicious Stand Rush on his now vulnerable foe, who can do nothing against the barrage.

Hercules: DISTANCE DISTANCE! DISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCE!

Hercules ends with one final blow that reduces Sun Wukong to a bloody smear, before immediately proceeding to dive back down to the ground and pose victoriously beneath the shower of blood that once was the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, who now remains dead for good.

Hercules: GO THE DISTANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

A "The End" screen reminiscent of the "To Be Continued" screen from JoJo pops up, closing the fight out.

---

Boomstick: Against Herc, who is just as strong and not losing his mind, he wouldn't be able to afford that kind of lapse, even for an instant.

Wiz: On the other hand, Herc has managed to maintain his willpower fighting foes just as strong as the Sun Wukong, so he didn't have the same kind of exploitable weakness.

Boomstick: And remember, he doesn't actually need to say his spells backwards.

Wiz: It helps with his concentration, but all his spells come from his mental impulses, just like Sun Wukong. He's consistently pulled off non-verbal spells in the past, even against beings as strong as Hera.

Popup: Sun Wukong has implied that he could resurrect himself after death, but his method of doing so is vague and nonspecific. Herc's capability to erase powers and existence could prevent him from such resurrection.

Boomstick: In the end, Herc definitely had enough experience fighting smart and keepin' on his toes to hang with Sun Wukong long enough to get in a finishing blow.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

2 and a half hours until DB rejects humanity and embraces monke I hope.

 

[0ホルスファルコン将軍0]

Source?

I'd like to see. Sun Wukong dies 'cause Sun Wukong is unstable which is caused by his abandoning of stable boy position. Jade Emperor just wouldn't be able to afford that kind of lapse, even for an instant. To be clear, this instability definitely wouldn't affect Sun Wukong's power. He was still strong enough to be the Great Sage Equaling Heaven. What it would do is leave Mountain of Flower and Fruit open.

I have done it in the comment section of Death Battle Wiki page. Here are some:

Spoiler: "HercWukong"

Hercules: Useless, useless, useless... DISTANCE!

He proclaims as such and calls upon The God of Strength to punch through Sun Wukong's chest and crush his heart. Hercules unleashes a vicious Stand Rush on his now vulnerable foe, who can do nothing against the barrage.

Hercules: DISTANCE DISTANCE! DISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCEDISTANCE!

Hercules ends with one final blow that reduces Sun Wukong to a bloody smear, before immediately proceeding to dive back down to the ground and pose victoriously beneath the shower of blood that once was the Great Sage Equaling Heaven, who now remains dead for good.

Hercules: GO THE DISTANCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

A "The End" screen reminiscent of the "To Be Continued" screen from JoJo pops up, closing the fight out.

---

Boomstick: Against Herc, who is just as strong and not losing his mind, he wouldn't be able to afford that kind of lapse, even for an instant.

Wiz: On the other hand, Herc has managed to maintain his willpower fighting foes just as strong as the Sun Wukong, so he didn't have the same kind of exploitable weakness.

Boomstick: And remember, he doesn't actually need to say his spells backwards.

Wiz: It helps with his concentration, but all his spells come from his mental impulses, just like Sun Wukong. He's consistently pulled off non-verbal spells in the past, even against beings as strong as Hera.


Boomstick: In the end, Herc definitely had enough experience fighting smart and keepin' on his toes to hang with Sun Wukong long enough to get in a finishing blow.

Will you ever shut up about the capeshit upsets?

 

[RiloKileyFan]

NGL if next time is just Boba vs Predator that feels kinda lame after this exciting MU.

agreed. i hope its Gru vs Megamind or something else....

I'm fine with Boba vs Predator, but not as a mid-season finale, unless it's live action

 

[Jasonsith]

agreed. i hope its Gru vs Megamind or something else....

I'm fine with Boba vs Predator, but not as a mid-season finale, unless it's live action

But Death Battle already spoiled that one episode will involve Boba Fett. Next time they could be more careful when selecting whom to get spoiled.

Unless they pull a Season 7 where Beerus MU and Crona MU were postponed.

 

[TMaakkonen]

One last mention, while modern DB is lolstatsstomps often, sometimes other factors do in fact effect verdicts. Doom & Iron Man were weaker, but had hax and "too much shit to throw at" their opponents.

If Wukong wins, its prolly by this logic.

 

[Jasonsith]

Spoiler: Hercules vs Sun Wukong

The winner is Sun Wukong. Surprise~

Cyrus Wong_9000 @ Youtube: "Hercules basically gets strikes with Wukong staff and gets reduced to nothingness - Wukong said"
Leyenda @ Youtube: "Hercules basically got hakaid"

Spoiler: Next time

Boba Fett vs Predator IS next.

 

[Loh67867]

Spoiler: Heracles vs Wukong

The episode itself is good but this is probably like the worst death we had in this season so far

 

[RiloKileyFan]

Spoiler: Heracles vs Wukong

The episode itself is good but this is probably like the worst death we had in this season so far

how? It was a great honorable death imo

anyways episode was great, but this is somebody who had no horse on this fight.

 

[RiloKileyFan]

Next time is just eh, whatever.

 

[Loh67867]

how? It was a great honorable death imo

Spoiler

I mean, they just hit each other and Herc disappears, there's really nothing to it

 

[OverlordDonnelly]

Spoiler: Heracles vs Sun Wukong

Damn, the infinite universe interpretations meant their strength was equal, and the lack of god scaling made this literally impossible for Herc with how wide the speed gap is. Worst of all, they even left stuff out in Sun's analysis, so it was probably an even bigger stomp in their eyes than the episode depicted.

 

[Thebrawlbro]

Spoiler: Winner Reasoning and Next time

In terms of strength, both were about equal, having supported the weight of the infinite universe. But Wukong was much more versitile in his abilities, with his transformations and clones. As well, his healing factor and immortality protected him from almost everything in Hercs arsenal, except for one. The Hydra's blood arrows, which could conceivably kill Wukong, or at least take him out of the fight. But that would require Herc to land a hit with them. But while Herc was fast enough to shoot the sun, Wukong traveled the entire universe in a second, making him way too fast to be reliably hit.

In terms of Next time, rip Predator, you have 0 advantages, Boba gonna murder ya.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Spoiler: Hercules vs Sun Wukong

The winner is Sun Wukong. Surprise~

Cyrus Wong_9000 @ Youtube: "Hercules basically gets strikes with Wukong staff and gets reduced to nothingness - Wukong said"
Leyenda @ Youtube: "Hercules basically got hakaid"

Spoiler: Next time

Boba Fett vs Predator IS next.

Spoiler

YES I KNEW MY BOY WOULD WIN

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Spoiler

Bit sad that Herakles lost, but I had a feeling Wukong would pull out the victory. So, not too mad at the result. Also @The_real_cal_howard they didn't scale Herakles to Hermes/Mercury. He ended up WAY slower than Wukong, and got matched in strength.

And now that this first myth MU is finished, and hopefully gets a lot a views, they should ABSOLUTELY do Cu Chulainn vs Achilles next!

 

[Thebrawlbro]

Spoiler

Yeah, they avoided scaling Herc to any of the gods, which basicaly means yeah, he was ******, because scaling was what he needed to have a chance.

 

[Sero]

Without telling me anything, how would you guys rate the episode?

 

[Jasonsith]

Without telling me anything, how would you guys rate the episode?

Fight can go 8/10. Just verdict makes the overall episode <5/10.

Spoiler: Hercules vs Sun Wukong

They did pull a Batman vs Iron Man.
And left out stuffs for both characters which would change the verdict. By, a lot.
Like I would rather have a Hercules win and with actual scaling and more arsenal mentioning.
And yes the execution (killing blow) is so bland in effect. Easily the weakest execution.

Fight can go 8/10. Just verdict makes the overall episode <5/10.

Spoiler: Next time

Should we celebrate because:
1. Boba Fett finally snatch a win after fighting against a bounty hunter goddess.
2. Star-Lord is reserved for fighting against Captain Shepard.

 

[Derpmaster9000]

Without telling me anything, how would you guys rate the episode?

Loved it, for the most part. Ending felt a little weak though, not gonna lie, when it comes to the death. With the buildup it had, it really should've been more epic than what it was.