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the guy who makes those cringey unfunny Cell videos? Yah I know him, would've preferred someone like Hyourinjutsu thoughPeter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
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Death Battle Discussion Thread 05
- Thread starter Dragonmasterxyz
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What lapses in logic? Refusing to believe that Piranha Plant is gonna start the fight by blitzing Ivy? I've used examples on why he won't and why Poison Ivy could win and you people keep sending me the pages on this wiki while ignoring the scans I've posted. I just want one solid reason on why he's going to start by speed blitzing and won't fall to mind control like the two other MTFL characters and not you explaining "the lapses in logic" that I have made while telling people that I don't care about the stats themselves but rather the characters behind them.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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"I understand that context matters and it's not just stats that come into play but the various abilities that a person possesses and their way of acting yeah haha weird right"
Yeah, guess what. If a, all around MFTL+ character fights a MHS character and the MFTL+ character attacks first, guess what? The MHS character, regardless of her character is going to get hit before she can think. Like, it's simple. The various abilities become useless unless she has some potent regen, resurrection or some other passive ability.
Yeah, guess what. If a, all around MFTL+ character fights a MHS character and the MFTL+ character attacks first, guess what? The MHS character, regardless of her character is going to get hit before she can think. Like, it's simple. The various abilities become useless unless she has some potent regen, resurrection or some other passive ability.
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I guarantee you that if Superman or Superboy were actually trying to kill her she wouldn't have been able to do shit. Justified by the many many timelines where Supes went crazy or evil and Pamela plays zero factor.
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this ******* thread
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Evil superman is so played out.
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Yes, tell me more on how the fight to the death between two characters with no connection to each other or reason to keep the other alive alongside any morals the character might have being explicitly turned off compares to a paragon with a no killing rule holding back on someone billions upon billions of times inferior to him.
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The thing with Superman is that, he won't kill you, unless it's his very very last choice.
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You are aware of the fact that the only change is the fact that it's to the death, right? They still keep their personalities. It's why Goku destroyed the Kryptonite that was weakening Superman in their respective death battle and why Ben and Hal were constantly cracking jokes during it.The real cal howard said:
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"What lapses in logic? Refusing to believe that Piranha Plant is gonna start the fight by blitzing Ivy?"
No, the logic that someone whose combat speed and movement speed clocks in at MFTL+ not blitzing a MHS character with their basic attacks before they can think.
"I've used examples on why he won't and why Poison Ivy could win and you people keep sending me the pages on this wiki while ignoring the scans I've posted."
You mean the scans that are seen as outliers or inconsistencies? Oh yeah, you are debating on this site, guess what stats users will most likely go by? I wonder. If you think she should be rated MFTL+, then by all means make a CRT. Something you seem allergic to doing despite all your complaining. We are willing to change our ratings if the reasoning is legit.
"I just want one solid reason on why he's going to start by speed blitzing and won't fall to mind control like the two other MTFL characters and not you explaining "the lapses in logic" that I have made while telling people that I don't care about the stats themselves but rather the characters behind them."
And you are referring to feats regarded as outliers. I've explained this before. Earlier in this post even.
"And I ask this, do you think characters who can achieve MTFL+ speeds passively move at speeds that fast? "
In battle, yes, they are going to move and attack at these speeds. Just living everyday life, of course not. You don't have to passively move at these speeds to use these speeds in combat. Immeasurable speed characters aren't always moving at Immeasurable speeds, but when there is a fight, they will.
No, the logic that someone whose combat speed and movement speed clocks in at MFTL+ not blitzing a MHS character with their basic attacks before they can think.
"I've used examples on why he won't and why Poison Ivy could win and you people keep sending me the pages on this wiki while ignoring the scans I've posted."
You mean the scans that are seen as outliers or inconsistencies? Oh yeah, you are debating on this site, guess what stats users will most likely go by? I wonder. If you think she should be rated MFTL+, then by all means make a CRT. Something you seem allergic to doing despite all your complaining. We are willing to change our ratings if the reasoning is legit.
"I just want one solid reason on why he's going to start by speed blitzing and won't fall to mind control like the two other MTFL characters and not you explaining "the lapses in logic" that I have made while telling people that I don't care about the stats themselves but rather the characters behind them."
And you are referring to feats regarded as outliers. I've explained this before. Earlier in this post even.
"And I ask this, do you think characters who can achieve MTFL+ speeds passively move at speeds that fast? "
In battle, yes, they are going to move and attack at these speeds. Just living everyday life, of course not. You don't have to passively move at these speeds to use these speeds in combat. Immeasurable speed characters aren't always moving at Immeasurable speeds, but when there is a fight, they will.
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Also, stop quoting large blocks of text.
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What does personality even have to do with your raw stats so long as it's not about holding back?
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Cause they are holding back. Most of the deaths come from carelessness on the characters part after a large battle has taken place. Cause they don't actively start with their strongest move. Cause most characters have personality that prevents them from letting loose immediately which sometimes results in their downfall.
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"Genuinely please stop replying to me cause you're not debating anything at hand you just refuse to discuss anything past the stats."
>Not debating anything.
>Has been debating your ideals this whole time.
Please. Hey, here's a tip. You want me to stop replying to you? Stop replying to my points. You keep going, I'll keep going. If I disagree with something, I'll voice my disagreements. I have the right to do so.
"You refuse to listen unless there's a CRT and there's changes to a profile which I actively cannot be arsed to do."
No, I listen, and I disagree. I have no reason to not see those feats as outliers, whether it happens twice or not, multiple outliers can exist. Oh, poor baby...Did I ask you to debate your points and use your supposed evidence to make a change in the right direction? Poor thing... Please...After the high horse you've been sitting on this entire discussion, you have no excuse not to. Or you'd rather treat anyone who disagrees with your point of view like an idiot.
>Not debating anything.
>Has been debating your ideals this whole time.
Please. Hey, here's a tip. You want me to stop replying to you? Stop replying to my points. You keep going, I'll keep going. If I disagree with something, I'll voice my disagreements. I have the right to do so.
"You refuse to listen unless there's a CRT and there's changes to a profile which I actively cannot be arsed to do."
No, I listen, and I disagree. I have no reason to not see those feats as outliers, whether it happens twice or not, multiple outliers can exist. Oh, poor baby...Did I ask you to debate your points and use your supposed evidence to make a change in the right direction? Poor thing... Please...After the high horse you've been sitting on this entire discussion, you have no excuse not to. Or you'd rather treat anyone who disagrees with your point of view like an idiot.
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You're actively becoming more annoying as this drags on. You're still not refuting any of the points you're just pointing me to profiles and asking me to do CRTs. Multiple versions of outliers can exist but when they're compared to Galeem's "light speed" attacks that Kirby dodges on a Warp Star (read: not on his own) and people scale a bunch of other characters from that and that's the only instance of it happening and it's considered an outlier you become a parody of yourself.
Not once have I acted like have you right now (read: a 15 year old white girl on twitter) so please take the pacifier out of my mouth and making this weird. I'm not into it man, you got some weird fetishes.
Not once have I acted like have you right now (read: a 15 year old white girl on twitter) so please take the pacifier out of my mouth and making this weird. I'm not into it man, you got some weird fetishes.
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Me, reading this argument
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"You're actively becoming more annoying as this drags on."
Hello pot, meet kettle.
"You're still not refuting any of the points you're just pointing me to profiles and asking me to do CRTs."
Been refuting points all day. Never pointed you to a single profile.
"Multiple versions of outliers can exist but when they're compared to Galeem's "light speed" attacks that Kirby dodges on a Warp Star (read: not on his own) and people scale a bunch of other characters from that and that's the only instance of it happening and it's considered an outlier you become a parody of yourself."
Just as multiple outliers exist. One feat can be used to scale to a bunch of characters. It depends on the verse in question. Not to mention these character actually fight the likes of Galeem and Dharkon. Not to mention you ignore how all these characters directly react to these attacks, but let's ignore that.
"Not once have I acted like have you right now (read: a 15 year old white girl on twitter) so please take the pacifier out of my mouth and making this weird. I'm not into it man, you got some weird fetishes."
I am glad these "15 year old white girls on twitter" have the sense to get on someone's case when they are acting like they are above someone and act like everyone else who disagrees with them is a bumbling idiot. I wasn't aware calling someone out for having a high horse as well as for acting like I am asking the impossible when I say "make a CRT", i.e follow the rules of the site was considered a weird fetish. Especially when said person is ignorant of their behavior.
Hello pot, meet kettle.
"You're still not refuting any of the points you're just pointing me to profiles and asking me to do CRTs."
Been refuting points all day. Never pointed you to a single profile.
"Multiple versions of outliers can exist but when they're compared to Galeem's "light speed" attacks that Kirby dodges on a Warp Star (read: not on his own) and people scale a bunch of other characters from that and that's the only instance of it happening and it's considered an outlier you become a parody of yourself."
Just as multiple outliers exist. One feat can be used to scale to a bunch of characters. It depends on the verse in question. Not to mention these character actually fight the likes of Galeem and Dharkon. Not to mention you ignore how all these characters directly react to these attacks, but let's ignore that.
"Not once have I acted like have you right now (read: a 15 year old white girl on twitter) so please take the pacifier out of my mouth and making this weird. I'm not into it man, you got some weird fetishes."
I am glad these "15 year old white girls on twitter" have the sense to get on someone's case when they are acting like they are above someone and act like everyone else who disagrees with them is a bumbling idiot. I wasn't aware calling someone out for having a high horse as well as for acting like I am asking the impossible when I say "make a CRT", i.e follow the rules of the site was considered a weird fetish. Especially when said person is ignorant of their behavior.
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Just as multiple outliers exist. One feat can be used to scale to a bunch of characters. It depends on the verse in question. Not to mention these character actually fight the likes of Galeem and Dharkon. Not to mention you ignore how all these characters directly react to these attacks, but let's ignore that.
Hence why I'm so adamant on using top speeds for everything.
Hence why I'm so adamant on using top speeds for everything.
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Just because you are doesn't mean someone else has to be. You think I expect everyone to accept everything we say as fact? Hell no. Neither should you assume everyone is simply going to agree with how you think and then say condescending shit like "Cause people on here don't understand how fights actually work." as if you are the grand authority on how vs fights work. You seriously think that's going to go well? That's why I say "make a CRT". People who use the site are more than likely going to argue based on information given here. Yeah, there are things I disagree with, but if I constantly note how much I disagree, then a CRT should be made. CRT's are where people who are best suited for arguing for a change can discuss. Not some DB Discussion thread. Especially with Marvel or DC discussions.
If you remember my first comment, you'd remember that I clearly didn't care about the Piranha Plant vs Poison Ivy. I simply noted logic that I disagreed with and more importantly, a comment that I notably cannot stand.
If you remember my first comment, you'd remember that I clearly didn't care about the Piranha Plant vs Poison Ivy. I simply noted logic that I disagreed with and more importantly, a comment that I notably cannot stand.
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Which is why I refuse to let this drag on past making provocative comments. Is that obvious to you now? I'm clearly only here to have my points refuted without me having to make a CRT cause there's certain abilities/personalities that characters have that make them more of a threat than you make them out to be. Especially in this case. Against a character who rarely fights faster than light.
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I think you misunderstand Xtas. Personalities and Abilities can change the course of a fight. However, if a character's average speed for battle clocks in at MFTL+, then unless that character simply stands there and does nothing, there is no reason to assume that their attack would not hit before a character can think. If both were around the same speed, or the speed gap wasn't so wide, then by all means, the thought based skill would hit. But, you're not seeing that the speed gap here is atrocious. There is no reason to assume a MFTL+ character who fights other MFTL+ characters normally (if we are using Smash PP, then that's a thing although I am not fond of Smash files as PP has a canon counterpart which should be used. but I digress), then there is no reason that their basic attacks are not at MFTL+ speeds. That's what I believe.
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While others have said a lot about what VS debating is all about with the example of Poison Ivy vs Petey Piranha, I am not adding further at the moment.
Back to Johnny Cage vs Captain Falco
Worth noting: they say Black Shadow (whom Captain Falco scale to) actually reaches Large Mountain Level - way higher than even Inner Power Johnny Cage. < I need a CRT or calc blog to verify that because that's game changing.
TBH once the G1 bloggers calculate the space station busting feat by themselves instead of using the VSBW data (while they use the VSBW data for Johnny Cage anyway), I am worried about their objectivity here.
They also say Captain Falcon and co scale to moving meteors but in reality the meteors should be slowed a bit by the barriers, and is falling from afar, making the paths predictable and reaction time much less. If you believe they pilot machines reaching 4000 km/h that is still Mach 3-4 best. Dodging meteors from afar largely reduces the reaction time required, just as dodging laser beams by Afro is slower than dodging sunlight point blank by Samurai Jack.
They may play their logic tho on their questioning on Johnny's access to Inner Power given our site also says this as Inner Power JC's weakness.
Back to Johnny Cage vs Captain Falco
Worth noting: they say Black Shadow (whom Captain Falco scale to) actually reaches Large Mountain Level - way higher than even Inner Power Johnny Cage. < I need a CRT or calc blog to verify that because that's game changing.
TBH once the G1 bloggers calculate the space station busting feat by themselves instead of using the VSBW data (while they use the VSBW data for Johnny Cage anyway), I am worried about their objectivity here.
They also say Captain Falcon and co scale to moving meteors but in reality the meteors should be slowed a bit by the barriers, and is falling from afar, making the paths predictable and reaction time much less. If you believe they pilot machines reaching 4000 km/h that is still Mach 3-4 best. Dodging meteors from afar largely reduces the reaction time required, just as dodging laser beams by Afro is slower than dodging sunlight point blank by Samurai Jack.
They may play their logic tho on their questioning on Johnny's access to Inner Power given our site also says this as Inner Power JC's weakness.
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What if Death Battle puts the fight somewhere where Johnny Cage's loved ones are? Or it moves to such a location during combat?
They love to show off all forms, and that might be an excuse to show off his Inner Power.
What has the fight preview shown us? What if they're hiding an inner power useage for a dramatic twist? Where is the fight happening?
They love to show off all forms, and that might be an excuse to show off his Inner Power.
What has the fight preview shown us? What if they're hiding an inner power useage for a dramatic twist? Where is the fight happening?
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The fight's happening at the F-Zero race track and Johnny's there to take clips for his new movie where he stars as Captain Falcon. Also, I think they're using young Johnny here, meaning he doesn't have loved ones yet that he really cares much about, so yeah.
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Could JC's fans or crew at the movie shot qualify as loved ones?
Feels like Captain Falcon might be painted as a villain in this Death Battle to make it feel more "justified" when he's killed. "How dare you try to play my role in a movie?! I'll kill you!" "What an injustice!"
I know neither would talk like that, but you get the idea? Or am I just being paranoid?
Feels like Captain Falcon might be painted as a villain in this Death Battle to make it feel more "justified" when he's killed. "How dare you try to play my role in a movie?! I'll kill you!" "What an injustice!"
I know neither would talk like that, but you get the idea? Or am I just being paranoid?
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It all dpends on whether SA allow Johnny Cage to tap into his Inner Power. In general, how SA scale their characters.
If SA does so, the sprites used do not matter as they have the manpower to do a few extra sprites.
To me, if they allow Sub-Zero to defeat Glacius, it makes no sense Johnny Cage cannot defeat Captain Falco. Making a sprite glowing green is not too difficult for them.
If SA does so, the sprites used do not matter as they have the manpower to do a few extra sprites.
To me, if they allow Sub-Zero to defeat Glacius, it makes no sense Johnny Cage cannot defeat Captain Falco. Making a sprite glowing green is not too difficult for them.
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I get what you're saying, but a better comparison would be Ryu vs Scorpion since from SA's research, Ryu is way stronger than Captain Falcon, and Johnny managed to fight off Scorpion in MKX.
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Honestly Cap doing something to trigger Cage's green halo sounds ridiculous. He's a good guy and he'd never try to do some bad stuff to the loved ones of his opponent.
But I've seen a DB blog about Ryu vs Scorp where they had to include non-canon forms because they wanted both to fight at their strongest forms or something (EG Champion Scorpion and Evil Ryu) so it's possible that they're going to slip in his green halo thing for the sake of it
But I've seen a DB blog about Ryu vs Scorp where they had to include non-canon forms because they wanted both to fight at their strongest forms or something (EG Champion Scorpion and Evil Ryu) so it's possible that they're going to slip in his green halo thing for the sake of it
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@Xtas I am, in no way, scaling Petey to Swamp Thing. Ivy just hasn't shown to be able to use Mind Control on sentient plant forms like Petey.
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But she hasn't shown to control sentient plant forms. The only times she has been able to control Swamp Thing was when it was in a different continuity, that being the DCAU.
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Then why hasn;'t she shown to control beings imilar to Petey? It's outright established that she can't. And it doesn't even matter when Petey blitzes and one-shots before she can even think.
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The only way she can beat Superman is by using Mind Control when he's off guard. If Superman wanted to, he could beat the crap out of her before she could do anything.
And why are we exclusively using Death Battle's tieriing? I'm just debating about who would win in a realistic battle between the two, not how Death Battle thinks of it. I could care less about who the Cast decides wins, as they've made it pretty clear that they're not the best at debating.
And why are we exclusively using Death Battle's tieriing? I'm just debating about who would win in a realistic battle between the two, not how Death Battle thinks of it. I could care less about who the Cast decides wins, as they've made it pretty clear that they're not the best at debating.
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1. Poison Ivy starts off as a Batman supervillain and is constantly and consistently portrayed primarily as a Batman villain (and defeated by Batman). Scaling her to the likes of Batman is reasonable.
She does have mind control on humans but needs time for her phermones and poisons to kick in. Not to say that DC and Marvel are omniverses filled with outliers.
And we all know who Petey Piranha scales to, Petey Piranha scales to Mario bosses like Goomboss, King Bob-omb, Kamek and possibly Bowser Jr. and likewise Petey fights with Mario in many occasions.
2. My verdict on the Community Death Battle Twitter is using their data for easy reference of the people who watch death Battle first.
Even Howard here knows the differences in stats depicted in this site. (And Petey stomps harder in AP, dura and speed.)
3. Death Battle never equalise speed so we have Roshi blitzing Jiraiya and King Dedede blitzing Wario, despite the latter have a theoretical potential of winning by hax.
4. Nobody else is commenting on the AP revision request of Black Shadow and Captain Falcon by the G1 bloggers already?
I am doing this myself the. Please debunk me and debunk the G1 Bloggers thanks.
She does have mind control on humans but needs time for her phermones and poisons to kick in. Not to say that DC and Marvel are omniverses filled with outliers.
And we all know who Petey Piranha scales to, Petey Piranha scales to Mario bosses like Goomboss, King Bob-omb, Kamek and possibly Bowser Jr. and likewise Petey fights with Mario in many occasions.
2. My verdict on the Community Death Battle Twitter is using their data for easy reference of the people who watch death Battle first.
Even Howard here knows the differences in stats depicted in this site. (And Petey stomps harder in AP, dura and speed.)
3. Death Battle never equalise speed so we have Roshi blitzing Jiraiya and King Dedede blitzing Wario, despite the latter have a theoretical potential of winning by hax.
4. Nobody else is commenting on the AP revision request of Black Shadow and Captain Falcon by the G1 bloggers already?
I am doing this myself the. Please debunk me and debunk the G1 Bloggers thanks.
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