DC Cosmology: Crisis Cosmology - Part 1

[Elizio33]

Alright, I feel newer interpretations of the concept should take precedence and Morrison's be deemed obsolete. It's a Crisis Cosmology after all incorporating views from different writers retroactively using recent comics as basis. Also, geometry is being used here in the literal sense, which isn't exactly metaphorical.


Oh, I actually meant it should scale equal to, not above. But I do agree it doesn't scale anyway as I recognize the 6th Dimension exists qualitatively beyond the Divine Continuum.

1. The concept was mentioned in The Return of Bruce Wayne and partly elaborated in interviews, most of the information from these interviews are now obsolete, but i agree that newer interpretations should take priority. Unless I'm mistaken, none really contradicts a three-dimensional Hypertime from The Return of Bruce Wayne, only the information from the interviews should be discarded in my opinion. It is a higher dimensional time that incorporates all time (Line Times are obviously Timestreams, Plane Time is the "two-dimensional" plane incorporating all of the Line Times, and Cube Time, as mentioned by Bruce Wayne, is a place where beings perceive the 3-D world on a higher dimensional perspective.

2. Okay, I didn't understand what you meant at first.

 

[Williams249]

1. The concept was mentioned in The Return of Bruce Wayne and partly elaborated in interviews, most of the information from these interviews are now obsolete, but i agree that newer interpretations should take priority. Unless I'm mistaken, none really contradicts a three-dimensional Hypertime from The Return of Bruce Wayne, only the information from the interviews should be discarded in my opinion. It is a higher dimensional time that incorporates all time (line time are obviously Timestreams, Plane Time is the "two-dimensional" plane incorporating all of the line times, and Cube Time, as mentioned by Bruce Wayne, is a place where beings perceive the 3-D world on a higher dimensional perspective.

2. Okay, I didn't understand what you meant at first.

Alright. I guess we understand each other. So are changes gonna be made to the OP regarding Hyper Time being 3-dimensional?

 

[Elizio33]

Alright. I guess we understand each other. So are changes gonna be made to the OP regarding Hyper Time being 3-dimensional?

If others agree, but i feels like none really contradicts the three-dimensional Hypertime. Just to be sure, when I talked about three-dimensional Hypertime, you didn't think I meant Hypertime was 3D, right? If so, what I mean is that Hypertime is actually a three-dimensional time dimension, not spatial. It's a higher dimensional time basically.

 

[Williams249]

If others agree, but i feels like none really contradicts the three-dimensional Hypertime. Just to be sure, when I talked about three-dimensional Hypertime, you didn't think I meant Hypertime was 3D, right? If so, what I mean is that Hypertime is actually a three-dimensional time dimension, not spatial. It's a higher dimensional time basically.

My bad then. I did assume you meant it in a geometric sense, coupled with the assertion it doesn't actually contain timelines. Geometry as a metaphor starting to make sense now xD. Anyways, if that's the case, no changes need to be made. Just simply misunderstanding on my part. So for clarity sake, Hyper Time is equivalent to three temporal dimensions, yeah?

 

[Elizio33]

My bad then. I did assume you meant it in a geometric sense, coupled with the assertion it doesn't actually contain timelines. Geometry as a metaphor starting to make sense now xD. Anyways, if that's the case, no changes need to be made. Just simply misunderstanding on my part. So for clarity sake, Hyper Time is equivalent to three temporal dimensions, yeah?

No worries at all. Yeah Hypertime is the three-dimensional time dimension. Morrison simply explains the first, linear time dimension, the second, planar time dimension, and the third time dimension at the top of the first two.

 

[Williams249]

No worries at all. Yeah Hypertime is the three-dimensional time dimension. Morrison simply explains the first, linear time dimension, the second, planar time dimension, and the third time dimension at the top of the first two.

Alright. Completely agree with OP.

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

• Universal feats: 3-A to Low 2-C (Immeasurably large and constantly expanding, but finite in size)

Looks good to me.

• Multiversal feats based on context: 2-C to 2-A (Multiversal feats are highly context dependent; in Dark Crisis for example, infinite universes outside the Orrery were involved, but in Final Crisis only the 52 universes of the Orrery were involved)

Fine with this too.

• Orrery and Bleed: Low 1-C (One infinity above Low 2-C)

Makes sense as well.

• Sphere of the Gods and Collective Unconscious: Low 1-C (Two infinities above Low 2-C)

I agree with the arguments for it based on the part 2 draft.

• Monitor Sphere: Likely 1-C (Three infinities above Low 2-C)
• Totally of Creation/Divine Continuum: High 1-C (At least three infinities above Low 2-C have been counted now, and the other half of the Divine Continuum, Hypertime, is a three-dimensional time, giving the Divine Continuum at least six infinities above Low 2-C)
• Sixth Dimension: High 1-C (Seven infinities above Low 2-C)

Agree with everything here too! I really have no issue with the proposals here.

 

[Ramasugita11]

Looks good to me.

Fine with this too.

Makes sense as well.

I agree with the arguments for it based on the part 2 draft.

Agree with everything here too! I really have no issue with the proposals here.

That doesn't make sense, the 5th dimension is expressed as blood that flows throughout the realms and is not on the map, if it were mapped it would cover the entire map and the 5th dimension could only be seen in the 6th dimension.

The 5th dimension is stated to be everywhere, while the bleed only exists outside the orrery of worlds. Since the multiverse is depicted as a sphere, there is no problem with the 5th dimension surrounding it, Because the center of the multiverse is the house of heroes

 

[Robo432343]

That doesn't make sense, the 5th dimension is expressed as blood that flows throughout the realms and is not on the map, if it were mapped it would cover the entire map and the 5th dimension could only be seen in the 6th dimension.

The 5th dimension is stated to be everywhere, while the bleed only exists outside the orrery of worlds. Since the multiverse is depicted as a sphere, there is no problem with the 5th dimension surrounding it, Because the center of the multiverse is the house of heroes

this sounds like you are agreeing with the thread

 

[Ramasugita11]

this sounds like you are agreeing with the thread

The overvoid > 6th dimension > 5th dimension > [4th Dimensional plane/layers] monitor sphere > sphere of the gods > bleed > [Third dimensional/Materials] 1 Earth [ with eight dimensional spatial, six dimensional spatial, five dimensional spatial, time and space [ 4Dimensional]

Morrison explained that imps are trapped in bottles with a 6-dimensional material structure, There are 8 dimensions in the multiversity event because of Morrison, the action comic by Morrison also has a mathematical 5th dimension, The 90s jla comic, the 5th dimension, has 2 versions, namely trans geometric and spatial dimensions trapped in a bottle with a 6 dimensional structure.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

@Deagonx @Antvasima @VeryGoofyToddler @DarkDragonMedeus @ProfectusInfinity thoughts of the second part?

Seems fine.

 

[Elizio33]

That doesn't make sense, the 5th dimension is expressed as blood that flows throughout the realms and is not on the map, if it were mapped it would cover the entire map and the 5th dimension could only be seen in the 6th dimension.

The 5th dimension is stated to be everywhere, while the bleed only exists outside the orrery of worlds. Since the multiverse is depicted as a sphere, there is no problem with the 5th dimension surrounding it, Because the center of the multiverse is the house of heroes

Thing is, the Fifth Dimension is not a place, it is the imagination, it cannot be mapped in the same way as the Sphere of the Gods or the Monitor Sphere since imagination exists and flows all around and between the realms of the multiverse with the exception of the Sixth Dimension.

I placed it on par with the Bleed only to make it easier to explain their relationship, but the Fifth Dimension scale is much higher than the Bleed. Basically, this is all-encompassing and stops at the Sixth Dimension, giving the Fifth Dimension a High 1-C tier.

 

[Elizio33]

Crisis Cosmology - Part 3 (Final Part)​

The Greater Omniverse​

First of all, it should be noted that the word "Omniverse" has been used a lot in recent years and that while the multiverse has been referred to as the Omniverse in some stories, it has nothing to do with the Greater Omniverse mentioned in Scott Snyder's Justice League run.

There are an infinite number of multiverses that rise and fall across the Overvoid, made by various creators such as the Hands using the energy entrusted to them by the Source. Although the idea of a multitude of rising and falling creations primarily came from Mike Carey's Lucifer series, Scott Snyder expanded on this concept.

• There are infinite multiverses other than the main DCU that together make up the Greater Omniverse.

Part of the idea made by Snyder is that, as described by Alpheus, when a multiverse breaks apart before its final evolution, it is sent back to the banks of creation where it was created by super-celestial beings like Perpetua. This is partly echoed by Perpetua who stated that she would come to the end of the void to eliminate her kind, the Hands, meaning that they would exist at the end of the void.

• According to Alpheus when a multiverse breaks apart before its final evolution, it's sent back to the banks of creation which it was created by super celestial beings like Perpetua.
• According to Perpetua, the void has an end and it is where her siblings resides.
• Chronicler does not come from Bleed, but from the Overvoid.

Unseen Council

The name used by Scott Snyder to describes a hierarchy that eventually reaches the Source. According to Merton, beings of the Greater Omniverse are several rungs above those of the main DC Multiverse in what he referred to as the cosmic ladder, and are qualitatively superior to the Divine Continuum. Notable individuals in this hierarchy are the Hands who appear to rule the multiverses of the Greater Omniverse or Chronicler who records the history of any dying multiverses.

• Beings of the Greater Omniverse are several rungs above those of the main DCU in the cosmic ladder.
• The Hands are the rulers of the Greater Omniverse and enact "cosmic judgment" on any multiverses they create that fail to ascend and achieve greater truths.

The Great Darkness and the Light of Creation​

Source/Overvoid/Presence = Light of Creation

Although commonly associated with different parts of the DC cosmology, these various entities were often been used interchangeably over the years. A few years earlier, Morrison had directly stated that the Overvoid and the Source were the same, as Snyder did with the Presence and the Source and more recently the Overvoid and the Presence, all associated with the Godhead that Joshua Williamson referred to as the Light of Creation.

One God, all three being viewpoints or potentially emanations of the same whole, existing as superior to the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, just referred to in different ways, sometimes referred to as a non-dual omni-awareness or an "ultimate concept" that contains within it life and anti-life, good and evil, in and out, and black and white. It has also been described as an "ocean" from which each universe is a "river" flowing from it, sometimes the river splits into a multiverse and there are smaller divisions that branch off from the river but quickly return without creating new universes. Although we cannot say with certainty what the Light of Creation actually is at present, it appeared in various aspects, lesser beings and it is from its light that the multiverse was created.

• Here the Light is represented in a way very similar to the Overvoid, as the white void from which the multiverse emerged.
• Here the Light is represented as the hand that made a truce with the Great Darkness, as The Presence in Allen Moore's Swamp Thing.
• There is a comma between "The Presence" and "of the Source" which suggests that they are the same thing.
• The Presence is directly stated to be in charge of the Hands of the Source.
• The Presence is considered the supreme being, but possibly not in the Greater Omniverse, perhaps referring to someone even more powerful like the Great Darkness.

Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness

In the prelude to Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths, Joshua Williamson incorporated the Great Darkness seen in Alan Moore's celebrated Swamp Thing run and associated it with the Overvoid created by Grant Morrison. Williamson specifically references the original Great Darkness storyline from Moore's Swamp Thing, when Zatara died, and adjusted it to what Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder have architected over the years for DC continuity.

Those who have read issues 49 and 50 of Swamp Thing Vol 2 will remember that the Great Darkness was the opposite of God who existed before the first light came into existence. Translating this into modern cosmology, the Great Darkness would have existed before the Presence, which is exactly what Williamson did when he brought the Great Darkness back as the Primordial Darkness where the First Star, translating to the Light of Creation, was born in defiance of what it it.

The Great Darkness also contains the Shadowlands which individuals like Alan Scott and Obsidian have ties to, and has various avatars and aspects like Darkseid or Empty Hand, but is not a force of good or evil, with no wants or needs, any more than the night sky or our own shadows. It just sits in the black for eternity, watching everything as a flicker of light waiting to be extinguished by itself.

• The Great Darkness is the Primordial Darkness which precedes the Light of Creation.
• The Great Darkness was there before the birth of the first star. An invisible flicker in defiance of the Great Darkness and yet it has dwindled out of its memory.
• The Great Darkness's eternal existence is the canvas against which people wage their struggles.
• The flicker of creation is the only light the Great Darkness receives, for it remains in the black for all eternity.

 

[Elizio33]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to its true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to their true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

When can the cosmology page be updated?

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to their true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

Still agree with everything.

 

[Elizio33]

When can the cosmology page be updated?

I'm waiting for a consensus first.

 

[Greenshifter]

Every earth has infinite timelines so affecting 52 universes is still 2-A in DC.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Every earth has infinite timelines so affecting 52 universes is still 2-A in DC.

That thread hasn't passed yet. We can adjust the cosmology page further if it does.

 

[Greenshifter]

Uh? Isn't this a pre-established thing? Like this fact caused infinite^2 universes being destroyed to become baseline 2-A a few years ago.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Uh? Isn't this a pre-established thing? Like this fact caused infinite^2 universes being destroyed to become baseline 2-A a few years ago.

No, it is not.

 

[Greenshifter]

Weird...

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to its true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @DarkGrath @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Eficiente @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @EliminatorVenom @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Deagonx @FinePoint @Dereck03 @Propellus

 

[Elizio33]

Every earth has infinite timelines so affecting 52 universes is still 2-A in DC.

Not exactly. Each Earth produces infinite timelines that branch off from the universe but return without forming a new universe. These timelines are contained within Hypertime and the Orrery is contained to 52 universes until it was merged with the Pre-Crisis Multiverse at the end of Dark Crisis.

 

[LordTracer]

@LordTracer

I’ve said many times that I don’t like Tier 1 threads or cosmology stuff, please don’t ping me for them.

 

[Greenshifter]

Each Earth produces infinite timelines that branch off from the universe but return without forming a new universe.

Return? What?

These timelines are contained within Hypertime

Duh, but Hypertime is cube-time and contains several multiverses.

 

[LazyMortician]

I agree with everything. But how is this different from upgrades for other DC cosmologies? Don't get me wrong, Elizio, I'm not speaking to you. What's different about what the OP and Goofy, who are naturally tall (CRT can be rejected for being tall, yes) do? I'm extremely curious.

 

[Williams249]

Wholeheartedly agree with OP.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to its true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

I'm not really into evaluating tier 1 anymore and prefer more knowledgeable staff regarding dc handle this but I don't have any objections at the moment so I don't disagree. Tier 2 stuff looks reasonable though.

 

[Williams249]

Return? What

"ocean" from which each universe is a "river" flowing from it, sometimes the river splits into a multiverse and there are smaller divisions that branch off from the river but quickly return without creating new universes.

 

[Elizio33]

I agree with everything. But how is this different from upgrades for other DC cosmologies? Don't get me wrong, Elizio, I'm not speaking to you. What's different about what the OP and Goofy, who are naturally tall (CRT can be rejected for being tall, yes) do? I'm extremely curious.

Here, this a thread to include Joshua Williamson's Dark Crisis and revise some realms of the Crisis Cosmology, while Goofy's thread to upgrade DeMatteis Cosmology was good to me, the thread derailed way too much.

 

[Ramasugita11]

The tier:

Now that the cosmological model of crisis cosmology is complete, let's move on to the tiering:

Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.

Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to its true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.

The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.

The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.

5th dimensional Imps are able to control time and hypertime

 

[Elizio33]

5th dimensional Imps are able to control time and hypertime

This is from an old story of Morrison and they weren't exactly shown to transcend Hypertime, just to be able to freely move through Hypertime.

 

[Ramasugita11]

This is from an old story of Morrison and they weren't exactly shown to transcend Hypertime, just to be able to freely move through Hypertime.

In my opinion, the 4th dimension is expressed as a metaphysical, hypertime part of time in the abstract. The third dimension is explained as materials, the materials dimension means the physical dimension, Because materials also exist in higher dimensions, not just the 3rd dimension, this means that it is normal for the physical 5th dimension to be in the 3rd dimension/materials dimension.

 

[LazyMortician]

Here, this a thread to include Joshua Williamson's Dark Crisis and revise some realms of the Crisis Cosmology, while Goofy's thread to upgrade DeMatteis Cosmology was good to me, the thread derailed way too much.

The fact that he makes comments against the OP on both threads without not based on them changes everything. I don't see this thread being intended to resolve the differences with the cosmology blog. Once this topic is approved, there will be edits on the blog. However, in the Vertigo threads, the OP is asked to point out the differences with the current blog and the things that need to be changed. Even though no evaluation has been made yet. It is subject to ridiculous criticism about its length and theme.

 

[Ramasugita11]

The fact that he makes comments against the OP on both threads without not based on them changes everything. I don't see this thread being intended to resolve the differences with the cosmology blog. Once this topic is approved, there will be edits on the blog. However, in the Vertigo threads, the OP is asked to point out the differences with the current blog and the things that need to be changed. Even though no evaluation has been made yet. It is subject to ridiculous criticism about its length and theme.

Should I incorporate dc cosmology now? I have several feats to back that up. But too many threads this week

 

[Elizio33]

The fact that he makes comments against the OP on both threads without not based on them changes everything. I don't see this thread being intended to resolve the differences with the cosmology blog. Once this topic is approved, there will be edits on the blog. However, in the Vertigo threads, the OP is asked to point out the differences with the current blog and the things that need to be changed. Even though no evaluation has been made yet. It is subject to ridiculous criticism about its length and theme.

Vertigo in our DC Cosmology blog needs improvement, but preferably after this thread is finished. The Crisis Cosmology is a somewhat composite cosmology for the 21st century with most notable work.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Antvasima @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr._Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Andytrenom @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @Agnaa @DarkGrath @JustSomeWeirdo @Theglassman12 @Eficiente @DemonGodMitchAubin @Duedate8898 @Planck69 @KingTempest @Armorchompy @CrimsonStarFallen @UchihaSlayer96 @LordTracer @Emirp sumitpo @EliminatorVenom @Lonkitt @LephyrTheRevanchist @Deagonx @FinePoint @Dereck03 @Propellus

Thought I already commented on the proposal, but I said it looks good.

 

[FinePoint]

@FinePoint

I'm more of a Marvel than DC fan, so I never really got into the cosmology that much and wouldn't consider myself particularly knowledgeable on it.
That said, I don't see anything inherently/objectively wrong with the tiering and justifications proposed here.

 

[Antvasima]

I also strongly support Elizio33's intended revisions here. Thank you very much for helping out.