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DC Cosmology: Crisis Cosmology - Part 1
- Thread starter Elizio33
- Start date
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There is no separation, all dc stories are canon. What is different is their tier in each version of the story. Not all of them are the same. For example in version 1, superman destroys planets but in version 2, he can't even do that. This means it is separated based on the comic.
The layers are clear
The overvoid > 6th dimension > 5th dimension > 4th dimension [Metaphysical]:
Monitor sphere > limbo > sphere of the gods > 3rd dimension [ material plane ]:
Higher dimension > time and space > 3rd dimension space.
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...What?
I just meant a separate CRT to see how this CRT (which seems to be accepted) changes character tiers.
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In fact, if all cosmologies were combined, the tiers would change again, because the spatial dimension is not only the 5th dimension but more
Sorry, I forgot that CRT means content revision
Williams249
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These new timelines apparently don't become actual universes, but sort of return back to Hyper Time.
Even if that were somehow true, the Metaverse (e-0) isn't just a universe, but the universe where all multiverses spring forth. So, this just don't fit your notion a singular universe is contained in itself infinite timelines.
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Good thank you !
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Williams249
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Cool. To shameless quote Matthew Schroeder:
"Like I said before, I am of the strong opinion that God in DC Comics is an entity / force / concept that's subgradiated through multiple subsequent emanations, starting with The Overvoid (The Empty White Expanse that acts as the origin point of all creative potential, the sleeping, unfathomable mind that lies in the background of all things), passing through The Source (The infinite, unconscious and impersonal primordial energy that surrounds and encompasses all things), and finally reaching The Presence / Yahweh (The conscious, active Godhead that rules with authority over all existence)."
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This answer is in the multiversity comic, Earth 17 is fictional for other Earths, Because everything is canon, the Multiversity event mentions the existence of the Sandman Vertigo comic has a universe, namely infinite universes that have levels.
So the word universe can be interpreted as multiverse, If you look at the comic, you are right but the difference is that each vibration/cause and effect has a similar form but is a different universe
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Yahweh Not a god for the dc universe, he was formed by human thoughts, even the author said that. Where did Matthew say that? Can you give me a link? As far as I remember, he didn't even know what overvoid was
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literally explained in the cosmology blog
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Williams249
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Williams249
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Mostly speculation with no ground basis. Morrison's Super Gods showed The Source=Over Void. Snyder's Death Metal showed The Presence=The Source. All three are manifestations of same entity, that is GOD.
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I don't think it talks about the overvoid, Btw not all voids is the overvoid, I can answer all your questions if you want to ask,Because everyone has different thoughts, different points of view
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That's right, their true form is the overvoid/light
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I almost missed this, Earth is a universe, universe means multiverse and he said this, parallel/time-line/duplicate Here
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https://readcomic [delete this] online.li/Comic/Earth-2/Futures-End-1?id=1685
Here Earth-2 it is said if there is infinite possibilities, keep in mind that the omniverse is a collection of infinite multiverses, the multiverse is earth [universe].
Here Earth-2 it is said if there is infinite possibilities, keep in mind that the omniverse is a collection of infinite multiverses, the multiverse is earth [universe].
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I respectfully disagree with that, but that's not the thread for this. I'm willing to address the topic on the DC General Discussion thread though.
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How did a thread this simple get derailed so ridiculously hard
All 3 parts of the CRT have been approved, so I think Elizio can apply changes to the blog, and any other changes can be organized later (unless they have more things to add).
All 3 parts of the CRT have been approved, so I think Elizio can apply changes to the blog, and any other changes can be organized later (unless they have more things to add).
- 3,358
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- Thread starter
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No. I think that would be all for this thread. I'll do another crt for the Energies of Creation later (Speed, Still, Sage, and Strength Forces, Emotional Spectrum, Crisis Energy, Anti-Life, ect.How did a thread this simple get derailed so ridiculously hard
All 3 parts of the CRT have been approved, so I think Elizio can apply changes to the blog, and any other changes can be organized later (unless they have more things to add).
@Antvasima can the accepted changes be applied to the DC Cosmology blog?
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I think that they can be applied to our regular DC Comics Cosmology page, yes, but which staff members here have approved your changes so far?
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At least three or four if I don't miss anyone.
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Agree
LordGriffin1000 (Agrees with tier 2 stuff, “doesn’t disagree” with tier 1 stuff, just prefers not to evaluate it)
Elizio33 (Thread Starter)
DarkDragonMedeus (Agrees with everything)
FinePoint (Agrees with everything)
Antvasima (Agrees with everything)
This is the tally for part 3 of the revision specifically.
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Thank you. I think that is probably fine, but maybe Elizio33 should provide all of his intended changes in a single post, so I can ask a few other knowledgeable staff members for input as well, in order to make certain?
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All the necessary information is on the op.
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Yes, every time I made a new part, I added it to the op.
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@Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Emirp sumitpo @Catzlaflame @LephyrTheRevanchist @Eficiente @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Lonkitt @Maverick_Zero_X @ByAsura @M3X_2.0 @LordGriffin1000 @DarkDragonMedeus @FinePoint @DeagonxHello everyone!This thread will discuss the collective works of various authors who have all worked together throughout the 21st century to construct the DC cosmology as we know it, which we decided to name "Crisis Cosmology". Given the limited time I have, I'm going to create this thread in three parts, starting with the Material Realms!
I hope that pleases you...
Introduction
Throughout the 21st century, the DC Cosmology was established primarily by four authors: Grant Morrison, Scott Snyder, James Tynion IV, and Joshua Williamson. Collectively, these individuals were responsible for the development of concepts such as the Overvoid, the Monitors, Perpetua, the Dark Multiverse, the Collective Unconscious, etc. Their iteration of the cosmology draws heavily from principles preordained by previous authors; notably, the Crisis on Infinite Earths, the Monitor/Anti-Monitor, and the Endless.
The Origins of Creation
It is worth mentioning that, while there were major differences between Williamson's work and that of Synder/Tynion IV a year prior, most of these contradictions can be explained through Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths and Dark Crisis: The Deadly Green. Essentially, despite some discrepancies between these authors’ interpretations, in the grand scheme of things, their portrayal of DC’s setting is consistent enough to be considered a single cosmological continuity. It is worth noted that certain authors like Geoff Johns have also contributed to the expansion of the DC Universe, notably with the “Metaverse” as a means of illuminating the various changes taking place in the DC Universe.
Before Creation, it was said that there was only a Great Darkness; a single black infinitude where nothing and everything were the same thing. From the darkness came a burning light. As the light grew, everything was no longer nothing and the darkness screamed, causing an imperceptible flaw in what was once the immaculate perfection of the light. With the birth of the Source from the dark, forces danced with each other like threads on destiny's loom, giving birth to the Lords of Chaos and the Lords of Order.
From the Source came the raw materials of a multiverse which the Source entrusted to Perpetua to shape into a functioning multiverse in the Overvoid. Perpetua created her children -- the Monitor, the Anti-Monitor, and the World Forger -- to manage the different aspects of her new reality. At this point, Perpetua had fulfilled her duty and was meant to die and allow her essence to return to the Source but she refused and defied her function. She began experimenting on the mortals at the center of her multiverse, transforming them into the Apex Predators, planning to create an army of immortal beings to repel anything the Source would send to force her to give up her life and control over reality. Her plans were thwarted by her children who alerted the Judges of the Source. Their response was to send the Cosmic Raptor who sealed Perpetua in a wall that would later become known as the Source Wall, also restarting her multiverse from the beginning of time.
- Before Creation and Light, there was the Great Darkness.
- From the dark came the Source and the forces danced with each other like threads on destiny's loom, giving birth to the Lords of Chaos and the Lords of Order.
Billions of years after Perpetua's defeat, Maltusian scientist Krona makes a breakthrough and attempts to discover the origins of creation. His tampering unintentionally unleashed an infinite multiverse of infinite universes.
- The Source sent Perpetua to take the raw materials from the Unseen Hand to create her multiverse.
- Perpetua explain she created her multiverse in a classic tripartite form -- Positive matter, firm and constant. Dark matter, rich with potential. Antimatter, corrosive and all-destroying.
- Instead of fulfilling her purpose and allowing her energies to return to the Source, Perpetua rebelled against her masters but her plans were thwarted and she was imprisoned in the Source Wall and her multiverse was restarted.
The Material Realms
Size of a Single Universe
Universes are much larger than the observable universe of our real world and, although some stories describe them as being infinitely expanding, this is contradicted by the presence of the Source Wall as "the edge of the universe" or "limit of the universe". As such, a universe is immeasurably large and is constantly expanding, but its size is finite.
Spatial Dimensions and Temporal Dimensions
As for the spatial and temporal dimensions, a universe is 4-D (3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension), although it should be noted that there are higher levels of spatial and temporal dimensions in this cosmology, but only this one specifically refers to the upper limit of spatial dimensions for an individual universe.
The Metaverse and Number of Universes
Metaverse
The Metaverse is what is known as Prime Earth, home to DC's main continuity. Normally, the universes of the multiverse do not influence each other, with the Metaverse being a single universe that the Multiverse reacts to and which forms around Superman's story. Since it's only one universe, manipulating or destroying the Metaverse does not in itself justify anything above Low 2-C.
Number of Universes
- The Metaverse is a universe distinct from the multiverse, each change that occurs there changes the multiverse.
- The Metaverse forms around Superman's story.
There are fifty-two universes occupying the same space at different frequencies. These are the known universes of the local multiverse, although the exact number of universes is infinite, but this one specifically refers to the universes of the local multiverse.
Tier
- What had been infinite in the Pre-Crisis Multiverse was contained to 52 universes.
- However, there are other universes that are not part of the 52 known universes, such as the 53rd universe.
- The 53rd universe is one of the infinite universes.
As seen above, the original infinite universes still exist, but separately from the fifty-two known universes from which most multiversal events since Final Crisis have taken place. Any multiversal feats are 2-C.
Antimatter Universe
The Antimatter Universe is a singular realm located on the outskirts of creation. Its creation and nature are bound to the Anti-Life Equation and beings made of positive matter cannot normally exist in this reality. Although its physical size is much larger than any positive matter universe, meaning that destroying all of the matter in it would be a much higher degree of High 3-A, destroying it entirely would still only be a Low 2-C feat.
World Forge
- Anti-Life was inherent to the creation and nature of the Antimatter Universe, just as the White Light (embodiment of Life and Free Will) was inherent to the positive matter universes.
- The Antimatter Universe is the outskirts of creation according to Mar Novu.
The World Forge is a singular realm of dark matter located beneath the Orrery of Worlds. It is deeply connected to the hopes and fears of the people of the Orrery and has ties to Element X from which new universes are forged there. It is initiated by Alpheus, the World Forger, and his dragon, Barbatos.
Bleed Space and the Nature of the Fifth Dimension
First, note that the Fifth Dimension is not actually a physical realm and should not be considered a place that can be "mapped" because the Fifth Dimension exists and flows all around and between the realms of the multiverse, at the exception of the Sixth Dimension. It is placed here for ease of explanation.
Bleed
The Bleed, also called Bleedspace, is a dimension that can only be conventionally accessed by moving up through higher dimensions. It is the dimension that contains all brane universes, serving as the membrane keeping them apart and the "Bulk" encompassing them. The Bleed itself, despite being a dimensional space to lower-dimensional beings, is composed of Ultramenstruum, the essence of life according to Monitor Zillo Valla.
Fifth Dimension
- The Bleed is the membrane between universes.
- Universes grow within the Bleed like crystals in solution.
- Bleed is the Bulk encompassing brane universes.
- The Bleed can be only conventionally accessed by leaving the conventional space-time.
The Fifth Dimension, as far back as the 90s, has been defined as imagination and as a plane superseding the three geometric spatial dimensions, as well as superseding time. Scott Snyder carried forward this concept into comics and applied it to the cosmology as the blood of the multiverse.
Due to its existence outside of the Third and Fourth Dimension, the Fifth Dimension exists everywhere at once and beings from this level of reality perceive time on an atemporal way.
It is a very reasonable interpretation that the Bleed itself is in fact, or at least has a direct relationship with, the Fifth Dimension. The House of Heroes, rotating through the Bleed, was stated to rotate through the Fifth Dimension, and Mr. Mxyzptlk refers to imagination as the blood of the multiverse, a term which was later used by Rex Stegman to describe the Bleed. The Fifth Dimension itself is revealed to be made of a substance depicted like blood.
- The Fifth Dimension is everywhere at once.
- Beings from this level of reality are outside of time and can thus perceive events that have not yet occurred.
In addition to the above points, the Monitors refer to Bleed as the substance of life itself, draining it out of creation and draining the life out of stories. Given that Mxyz uses "unimagination" and reduces the story back to sketches, everything seems to line up.
Finally, it is important to note that the Bleed clearly exists differently on different levels of reality. To the mortals living within normal universes, it is a higher-dimensional Bulk space. To the Fifth-Dimensional beings and presumably to the Sphere of the Gods, it exists as an energy flowing through creation. And to the Monitors, it exists as a tangible substance that can be handled and consumed like a drink, draining life out of the story of creation.
- The House of Heroes rotates through 5-D.
- Mister Mxyzptlk describes imagination as the blood of the multiverse, and Rex Stegman did the same with the Bleed.
- The Fifth Dimension and its beings, stated prior to be composed of Imagination, are depicted as being made of a blood-like material.
- Ultramenstruum/Bleed is the substance of Life itself.
- When Mr. Mxyzptlk removes Imagination, the comic art is reduced back to sketches.
Orrery of Worlds and Local Multiverses
Orrery of Worlds
The Orrery of Worlds is the construct encompassing the local multiverse, originally created during the first contact of Monitor-Mind the Overvoid with the new creation within it. It also contains the Rock of Eternity and House of Heroes which exist outside the universes. When Monitor-Mind The Overvoid found the new creation, it created a concept to contain creation, scabbing it over in divine metal.
As noted in the previous section on geometric & temporal dimensions, creation or destruction feats at the Orrery or Bleed level are Low 1-C, given the levels of existence they contain, but this is highly dependent on context.
- The Orrery is the structure of divine metal that scabbed over the flaw.
- The Orrery, the divine metal surrounding the flaw, seen in the Monitor Sphere.
- The House of Heroes is outside of normal time space, between universes, and has a pan-dimensional room.
Local Multiverses
Infinite Frontier was the first confirmation for this cosmology that the Pre-Crisis Multiverse had been saved after its reboot, but the Metaverse expanded on this concept further. Each reboot that changes the Metaverse and results in a new multiverse does not remove the previous iteration from existence. They all exist separately until the merging of both multiverses. As such, destroying or threatening a "multiverse" is heavily dependent on the context and era of the story.
Speed Force Wall
- Every multiverse is preserved in the wider multiverse.
- However, they are separated by barriers, as seen with Multiverse-1 and Multiverse-2.
- The New 52 Multiverse, for example, is the local multiverse of 52 universes, which is known as Multiverse-1.
- The Pre-Crisis Multiverse, known as Multiverse-2, still exists somewhere outside of the local multiverse.
An energy field otherwise known to the inhabitants of the Orrery as the Speed of Light. It is described as the limit to matter on the main map of the multiverse by Grant Morrison. Thus, beyond this superluminal barrier, matter is converted into pure information. This is important because outside this barrier starts a pattern of increasing levels of existence corresponding to less and less "realness" with archetypal realms inhabited by living ideas and thoughts.
It is important to note that the Speed Force Wall and the Speed Force are not necessarily the same thing, as the Speed Force Wall was revealed in Joshua Williamson's Flash series to be the barrier in which the Sage Force and the Strength Force were trapped and dormant.
Wonderworld
- The Speed Force Wall is otherwise known as the speed of light and is the limit to matter.
- Beyond this superluminal barrier, matter is converted into pure information.
- The Force Barrier is where the Sage Force and the Strength Force were trapped and dormant until Zoom manipulated Barry Allen and Wally West into running fast enough to break the barrier.
An enormous primal world orbiting the perimeter of the Orrery of Worlds at incredible velocities. Despite having no appearance in Morrison's works of the 2000s and those of Scott Snyder, it was deemed important enough by Morrison to devote an entire entry to the left side of the map of the multiverse.
The Metaphysical Realms
Due to their existence outside of the material realms, these realms are beyond our physics-based conception of the spatiotemporal multiverse. Many DC writers like to treat them collectively as "Platonic Realms" or as "Fictions".
Elemental Realms
The Green, the Red, the Grey, the Rot, the Clear, the Melt, the White, etc.
These realms are a bit more complicated to analyze because they have multiple layers to them. Often they simply refer to the realm relative to Earth, to a single planet, while other cases refer to the collective whole that encompasses the entire multiverse, but James Tynion's Justice League Dark run established that they are not places or realms, nor simply imagination, but lie between idea and reality where memory and consciousness of the Elemental concept exists outside of time and space.
Sphere of the Gods
The Sphere of the Gods is the overarching realm containing the godly and magical realms of the multiverse, and possesses an immaterial, metaphysical nature. It is home to the Archetypal Powers and Intelligences of the multiverse. The realm is stated to be made of literal possibility, and formed as an encompassing sphere around creation before creation had even finished forming. It is deeply tied to, and possibly indistinguishable from, the ideas and beliefs of mortals.
The very first thing to note comes from the map of the multiverse itself. Refers to Wonderworld, stated to orbit creation, which contextually refers to the Orrery. From that, it is quite clear that the Sphere of the Gods is not part of the material world and exists outside normal time and space. It is said to contain platonic, archetypal worlds inhabited by living ideas and to be fiction.
The Sphere of the Gods is the source of magic, the fundamental power of creation and belief, and the destruction of this energy would result in the destruction of the material world as a necessary consequence.
- The Sphere of the Gods is not part of the material world,
- being located outside of the corporeal reality.
- The Sphere of the Gods holds platonic, archetypal realms and is inhabited by living ideas.
- The Sphere of the Gods is made entirely out of the light of possibility, and manifested around the still-forming multiverse.
- Realms of the Sphere of the Gods are called fictions, which Tynion explained was a reference to their connection to Collective Unconscious, which manifests divinity through belief.
- Alpheus stating "a fiction from the Sphere of the Gods."
Continuing with the principle that the realms of the Sphere of the Gods are fictions, they are not real in the same way as the material world, they are ideas shaped by the beliefs of mortals. Therefore, events in the Sphere of the Gods operate on the basis of fiction and not normal causalities.
- The Sphere of the Gods is the home to all spiritual and godly energy in the multiverse.
- The Sphere of the Gods is the source of the true power of magic.
- Destroying magic would destroy creation along with it.
Nature of the Inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods
- Myrra is not "real" - it is a magic idea that was shaped by the beliefs of people.
- Myrra is a metaphorical realm.
Assuming Morrison's seemingly throwaway claim about platonic forms is taken seriously, there should be significant evidence that the inhabitants of the Sphere of the Gods adhere to platonic forms, although not all should adhere to such nature.
First, the very basics: they manifest in the material world as emanations of their true forms, called Godheads.
Next, existing as forms:
Finally, existing outside the material realm's spatiotemporal physics:
- Gods and New Gods are self-aware ideas, and their weapons are concept and metaphor.
- Myrra's life is not physical, it is idea.
- Grant Morrison defined Metron as the Platonic Form behind all the electric-based heroes to ever exist.
- Earth-23 Wonder Woman talks of the Gods as Universals, who gave a gift in the time before time.
Now, it is very important to note that even though the gods and deities were living ideas or platonic forms, they were all given forms by the beliefs of mortals worshiping them through the Collective Unconscious as mentioned below.
Collective Unconscious
The Collective Unconscious is the ideal "collective" form of mortal souls above the Sphere of the Gods from which all telepaths and greatest minds draw their abilities. It houses Hecate's personal realm, the Witch's Moon, a metaphor for the first mystery gazed upon by man. All gods and divine realms were born from the collective beliefs and imaginations of humanity. In this way, all the realms of the Sphere of the Gods are “fictions”.
In the relaunch of Justice League Dark, James Tynion IV and Ram V introduced a very old concept, that of beliefs defining creation from Mike Carey's Lucifer series, and applied it to cosmology. The idea is that the collective beliefs change reality and form gods and deities that are worshiped or feared by said believers through the Collective Unconscious. Metron explains this further in a tie-in to Death Metal, explaining that the multiverse is built on beliefs and that as mortals believe in gods they exist, who in turn believes in the Source it exists, although the Source exists beyond the Collective Unconscious.
- The crest of the Collective Unconscious lies above the Sphere of the Gods.
- The Collective Unconscious houses Hecate's personal realm, the Witch's Moon, a metaphor for the first mystery gazed upon by man.
- The Collective Unconscious is the cosmic force that gives all telepaths and the greatest minds their abilities.
Mortals and the Sphere of the Gods
- Metron explains that beliefs are the key to this multiverse and that little mortals believe in the gods, and therefore they exist, just like him, and the gods believe in the Source, therefore the Source exists.
- As humanity grew, their beliefs grew in tandem, hardening into stricter forms which divided the realms above into the divine and magical realms housing pantheons of gods and deities, each believing their own myths of creation.
- When Hecate looked into her dark reflection, her beliefs formed the Upside-Down Man and the Otherkinds.
Without special methods such as boom tubes or magical portals, the Sphere of the Gods can only be reached normally by mortals by transcending physicality, using the power of widespread belief to ascend into the Sphere of the Gods as true residents, seen with the Lord of Order (And presumably Chaos) below:
Mortals can enter the realms of the Sphere via magic portals, but once there they can only interact with a "shell" of the realm due to its extradimensional nature.
As noted above, feats of creation or destruction at level of the Sphere of the Gods or the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given their transcendence on the Orrery of Worlds, although most of their inhabitants are only four-dimensional in nature and shouldn't scale to their realms.
Comic Book Limbo
Comic Book Limbo is the last outpost of existence proper before reaching the archetypal Monitor World and the Overvoid, where the forgotten characters of the DCU end up. It is not a permanent consignment - characters that were forgotten but are later reintroduced in stories leave Limbo and return to lower levels of reality. There are no stories in Limbo except for the Book of Infinite Pages, which contains every story of creation. There is no time in Limbo. "Time" in this context does not refer to the concept of time since the Monitor Sphere, above Limbo, has time. It goes one step further into nothingness, as Limbo is where matter and memory break down. Limbo exists separately from the Orrery, floating between it and the Thought Robot. It was stated that, when crashing out of the Orrery to end up in Limbo, the Ultima Thule was drifting into the void.
The statement "Music is over: We've run out of the Multiverse" doesn't mean that Limbo is outside of the whole creation, it only refers to Orrery of Worlds, because they used the Ultima Thule for traveling between universes which is a trans-dimensional yacht powered by sound vibrations, by altering its pitch and wavelength it is possible to travel to other universes (because each universe has a different frequency), i.e. music being over means that Limbo is outside of all parallel universes and the Orrery.
- When the Ultima Thule begins crashing and leaves the multiverse to end up in Limbo, Zillo Valla states that it is drifting into the void.
- Limbo exists disconnected from the Orrery.
- Limbo is literally nowhere.
- Limbo has no such thing as time to waste; there is no time in the normal sense.
- Limbo has no stories.
Monitor Sphere
The Monitor Sphere is an archetypal world and home to Nil, the world of the Monitor race. While the mystery of the Orrery and the Thought Robot caused Monitor-Mind to invent stories to accompany it, the Monitor Sphere took shape outside of the Sphere of the Gods. Remember from the previous section how going from the multiverse to Comic Book Limbo required crossing the void. This is reflected in statements that Nil is part of the void and that Monitor nanotechnology is coming from the void to attack Limbo.
The beings of this world are notable for being the only ones capable of bottling and consuming Bleed as a tangible substance. This is extremely significant: we know that, from the perspective of lower mortal "germs", Bleed is the Bulk Space enclosing the worlds of the Orrery. We know also that Bleed is the substance of Life, from Zillo Valla. In metafictional terms, it is what gives life to the stories of the Orrery. The Monitors are capable of extracting it as a tangible substance, draining creation dry. This interpretation is confirmed by Morrison himself: what Mandrakk is doing by extracting Bleed as a consumable is sucking the life out of the story. See the scans below:
You may have noticed a pattern by now of elevating levels of existence corresponding to less and less "real-ness" as we would think of it in real life. Beings in the Orrery are made of matter and operate within physical space and time. Beings in the Sphere of the Gods are pure idea and operate within metaphysical story. Beings in Limbo lack even story. And Nil takes this pattern to the next level, as far as reasonably possible before achieving the pure absolute Nothingness/Oneness of the Overvoid. The world of the Monitors is the Blank, the Nil, the Gone, the edge of everything where form and meaning surrender to the nothingness of the Overvoid. Its inhabitants have 5555 terms for "nothing", and presumably a similar number of types of nothing.
- Mandrakk, by sucking all of the Bleed extracted toward his sepulchre, sucked the life out of the story.
- Draining the Bleed out drained the meaning and story from the Orrery.
Concepts like space, time and scale are more meaningful, profound, with "time" in the Monitor Sphere referring to the clockwork pattern in the sky. Time in Nil seems to function as a temporal dimension, because when it entered the Monitor Sphere, it form "beginnings" and "ends".
As stated above, the Monitor Sphere exists on a higher plane of existence than Comic Book Limbo is positioned higher than the Sphere of the Gods on the map of the multiverse, and its inhabitants perceive the 5-D Bulk Space as a tangible, consumable substance, adhering to the 1-C tier.
- Scale, space and time exist in the Monitor Sphere but are more profound and meaningful.
- "Time" in Nil refers to the clockwork pattern in the sky.
- When time entered the Monitor Sphere, it formed "beginnings" and "endings".
The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place
A vast subconscious realm of dark matter upon which floats the Multiverse. It's the unintended side effect of the process of creating new worlds, coupled with the treachery of Barbatos. It consists of infinite worlds of nightmare, similar to the infinite timelines of the main Multiverse has. It is directly stated that Perpetua's original Creation had nothing to do with the formation of the Dark Multiverse. Some realms such as the Dreaming and the Phantom Zone have strong connections to the Dark Multiverse.
The Other Place
- The Dark Multiverse contains infinite worlds of nightmare.
- The nightmare worlds are dark timelines, not just planets.
- The Dark Multiverse consists of timelines where things went "bad".
- The Dark Multiverse is not in the main DCU.
- The Dark Multiverse is not part of Perpetua's design for Creation.
An empty void of space inhabited by the Otherkind. Long since Hecate imprisonned the Upside-Down Man here since the dawn of the multiverse, he infected this place with his reality. It is the source of all dark magic that Hecate took a piece of and gave to humanity to "curse" them. Although in the 2018 relaunch of Justice League Dark, James Tynion IV presented the Great Darkness as the dark opposite to the Sphere of the Gods, connected to the Dark Multiverse, this notion was later retconned by Joshua Williamson.
- When Hecate formed in the Sphere of the Gods, she detected a darker opposite beneath the Sphere, tied to the Dark Multiverse.
- The Great Darkness/The Other Place/The Abyss all reference the same thing, although the Great Darkness was retconned.
- The Great Darkness was awakening in the Dark Sphere of the Gods that surrounds the Dark Multiverse, which could mean that the Dark Sphere of the Gods could be where the Great Darkness had been sleeping since the truce with the Light of Creation.
The Source Wall and the Totality of Creation
The Divine Continuum and Hypertime
Divine Continuum
Although certain aspects of cosmology such as the location of Hypertime or the nature of a "wider" DC Multiverse have been difficult to evaluate, Geoff Johns partly answered this question in Flashpoint Beyond with an entirely new concept, that of the Divine Continuum as defined by Dr. Bonnie Baxter, it represents Existence itself, formed by two aspects of reality. The first half is Space, which is physically represented by the "wider" DC Multiverse; the second half is Time which is represented by the abstraction known as Hypertime.
To fully avoid confusion about this concept, it is necessary to discard the idea of the Omniverse, or the idea of the multiverse becoming its own web of multiverses from the end of Death Metal, as this was proven to be false according to Lex Luthor who, during his time with the Totality, discovered the truths and lies of the multiverse. Refers to the Local Multiverses section, as the concept of a wider DC Multiverse has always existed, all iterations of the multiverse still exist but separately from each other, which now refers to the space aspect of the Divine Continuum.
The Space aspect has always been represented by the various iterations of the multiverse and is split into the Multiverse, the Metaverse, the Sphere of the Gods, and the Dark Multiverse. Although neither Comic Book Limbo nor Monitor Sphere have been mentioned as being part of the space aspect, it is not a stretch to assume that they do since the Dark Multiverse, which encompasses them, is part of the space aspect. Due to the many Crises that the multiverse has faced as a consequence of various attacks, the Space aspect has always been changing, being shaping around a single universe referred to as the "Metaverse", until the combined efforts of the Flash Family and Dr. Light merged the multiverses.
Hypertime
- The Space aspect of the Divine Continuum is the "Omniverse" and incorporates multiverses, most likely iterations of the multiverse as part of the "larger" DC Multiverse.
- The Time aspect of the Divine Continuum is Hypertime and while the "Omniverse" is more conceptual, Hypertime is more emotional at its core as it perpetually changes due to a natural reaction to the events as well as to direct manipulations of the Timestream.
Now we come to Hypertime. It can be said that there are two lenses to view this concept through: a basic, functional level, and a complete, metafictional level. That is not to say that there are two Hypertimes or that one is more correct than the other, but that most stories referencing it will simply depict the first for ease of explanation.
The basis: Hypertime, as defined by the Fuginauts, is an abstraction, a temporal nexus allowing access to all timelines formed across existence. It is distinct from the Timestream in that, while the timelines all exist in the Timestream, they burrow through Hypertime. The Hypertime abstraction has a manifestation called the Branefold Interior, where the Fuginauts exist not only to maintain boundaries between timelines but also between the Multiverse and Dark Multiverse.
Basically, Hypertime is a three-dimensional, time-based concept created by Grant Morrison and Mark Waid to allow all parts of DC's published stories to interact with each other. Morrison sometimes uses geometry as a metaphor to discuss Hypertime, using concepts such as "plane time" and "cube time". This is shown in The Return of Bruce Wayne and expanded upon in an interview, treating it as a three-dimensional concept, its basis being the "time point" containing all possibilities.
- Flash defined Hypertime as a web of timestreams outside the local multiverse.
- Hypertime is described to be outside of time.
- The Branefold Interior is the home realm of the Fuginauts, and the physical manifestation of the Hypertime abstraction.
- Hypertime contains infinite timelines.
By simple geometry, the time point extent to create the "line time" or "line space a" representing the linear timeline from beginning to end. Time also extends laterally, so there is the "plane time" or "space b", an immense cosmic loom of converging and separating line times. The perpendicular of plane time is "cube time" which views the inhabitants of the Orrery from a higher-dimensional perspective.
Sixth Dimension
The Sixth Dimension is a plane of existence where the prior version of the multiverse was designed and set in motion by Perpetua. It is distinct from the Monitor Sphere in that although the Monitor Sphere exists at the edge of things, the Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence. It is stated to be beyond time and imagination and is at the top of everything on the map of the multiverse. The Sixth Dimension can only be reached by non-Monitors after the Source Wall has been breached, and is completely beyond Mxyzptlk's perception despite existing outside of time.
Despite this, the Sixth Dimension does not appear to completely transcend time since the Sixth Dimension is spoken of in a timeline of 20 billion years and when Superman fights in the Sixth Dimension, his speed is spoken of in physical terms, saying that it will take hours for the light to catch up, months for the sound.
Scott Snyder clarified in an interview that the Sixth Dimension is not outside the Source Wall and that the Sixth Dimension is a spherical layer that envelops the entire multiverse, a "control room" where quintessential beings oversee the development and progression of the multiverse. For this reason, their stature is naturally higher than all other entities inhabiting the multiverse.
- The Sixth Dimension is where the multiverse was designed and set to motion by Perpetua.
- The Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence.
- The Sixth Dimension is depicted as far, far "larger" than creation.
- The Sixth Dimension is again shown to completely dwarf creation.
Promethean Galaxy and the Source Wall
While not a literal galaxy, the Promethean Galaxy is a realm as old as creation and farthest finite frontier of reality where the Source Wall is located. The Source Wall is the limit to thought and the protective shell around the Multiverse, closing it off from the Greater Omniverse. In all directions from any universe within the Multiverse, the wall is the final point, separating all of creation from the Overvoid. In Countdown, which contradicted Final Crisis in many ways it was said that the Source Wall separates universes. However, this does not fit with the rest of Morrison's works.
Nil did not have the Source Wall around it during Final Crisis, this is because the Source Wall was destroyed in Death of the New Gods, which was a lead-in comic to Final Crisis. Grant Morrison affirmed that elements of Final Crisis were intentionally written to match the events of DotNG in this interview:
- The Promethean Galaxy is not truly a galaxy, but the finite border of reality, as old as creation itself.
- The Source Wall is the protective shell around the multiverse.
- The Source Wall is the boundary of the Multiverse, closing it off from the Greater Omniverse. In all directions from any universe within the Multiverse, the wall is the final point.
- Darkseid is falling through the universe after the event we experienced as Death of the New Gods.
- Jim Starlin created Orion's death scene in the sixth issue of Death of the New Gods to lead into war god's appearance in the first issue of Final Crisis, so Jim's scene was referred back in the third issue of Final Crisis.
The Greater Omniverse
First of all, it should be noted that the word "Omniverse" has been used a lot in recent years and that while the multiverse has been referred to as the Omniverse in some stories, it has nothing to do with the Greater Omniverse mentioned in Scott Snyder's Justice League run.
There are an infinite number of multiverses that rise and fall across the Overvoid, made by various creators such as the Hands using the energy entrusted to them by the Source. Although the idea of a multitude of rising and falling creations primarily came from Mike Carey's Lucifer series, Scott Snyder expanded on this concept.
Part of the idea made by Snyder is that, as described by Alpheus, when a multiverse breaks apart before its final evolution, it is sent back to the banks of creation where it was created by super-celestial beings like Perpetua. This is partly echoed by Perpetua who stated that she would come to the end of the void to eliminate her kind, the Hands, meaning that they would exist at the end of the void.
Unseen Council
- According to Alpheus when a multiverse breaks apart before its final evolution, it's sent back to the banks of creation which it was created by super celestial beings like Perpetua.
- According to Perpetua, the void has an end and it is where her siblings resides.
- Chronicler does not come from Bleed, but from the Overvoid.
The name used by Scott Snyder to describes a hierarchy that eventually reaches the Source. According to Merton, beings of the Greater Omniverse are several rungs above those of the main DC Multiverse in what he referred to as the cosmic ladder, and are qualitatively superior to the Divine Continuum. Notable individuals in this hierarchy are the Hands who appear to rule the multiverses of the Greater Omniverse or Chronicler who records the history of any dying multiverses.
- Beings of the Greater Omniverse are several rungs above those of the main DCU in the cosmic ladder.
- The Hands are the rulers of the Greater Omniverse and enact "cosmic judgment" on any multiversesthey create that fail to ascend and achieve greater truths.
The Great Darkness and the Light of Creation
Source/Overvoid/Presence = Light of Creation
Although commonly associated with different parts of the DC cosmology, these various entities were often been used interchangeably over the years. A few years earlier, Morrison had directly stated that the Overvoid and the Source were the same, as Snyder did with the Presence and the Source and more recently the Overvoid and the Presence, all associated with the Godhead that Joshua Williamson referred to as the Light of Creation.
One God, all three being viewpoints or potentially emanations of the same whole, existing as superior to the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, just referred to in different ways, sometimes referred to as a non-dual omni-awareness or an "ultimate concept" that contains within it life and anti-life, good and evil, in and out, and black and white. It has also been described as an "ocean" from which each universe is a "river" flowing from it, sometimes the river splits into a multiverse and there are smaller divisions that branch off from the river but quickly return without creating new universes. Although we cannot say with certainty what the Light of Creation actually is at present, it appeared in various aspects, lesser beings and it is from its light that the multiverse was created.
Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness
- Here the Light is represented in a way very similar to the Overvoid, as the white void from which the multiverse emerged.
- Here the Light is represented as the hand that made a truce with the Great Darkness, as The Presence in Allen Moore's Swamp Thing.
- There is a comma between "The Presence" and "of the Source" which suggests that they are the same thing.
- The Presence is directly stated to be in charge of the Hands of the Source.
- The Presence is considered the supreme being, but possibly not in the Greater Omniverse, perhaps referring to someone even more powerful like the Great Darkness.
In the prelude to Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths, Joshua Williamson incorporated the Great Darkness seen in Alan Moore's celebrated Swamp Thing run and associated it with the Overvoid created by Grant Morrison. Williamson specifically references the original Great Darkness storyline from Moore's Swamp Thing, when Zatara died, and adjusted it to what Grant Morrison and Scott Snyder have architected over the years for DC continuity.
Those who have read issues 49 and 50 of Swamp Thing Vol 2 will remember that the Great Darkness was the opposite of God who existed before the first light came into existence. Translating this into modern cosmology, the Great Darkness would have existed before the Presence, which is exactly what Williamson did when he brought the Great Darkness back as the Primordial Darkness where the First Star, translating to the Light of Creation, was born in defiance of what it it.
The Great Darkness also contains the Shadowlands which individuals like Alan Scott and Obsidian have ties to, and has various avatars and aspects like Darkseid or Empty Hand, but is not a force of good or evil, with no wants or needs, any more than the night sky or our own shadows. It just sits in the black for eternity, watching everything as a flicker of light waiting to be extinguished by itself.
The tier:
- The Great Darkness is the Primordial Darkness which precedes the Light of Creation.
- The Great Darkness was there before the birth of the first star. An invisible flicker in defiance of the Great Darkness and yet it has dwindled out of its memory.
- The Great Darkness's eternal existence is the canvas against which people wage their struggles.
- The flicker of creation is the only light the Great Darkness receives, for it remains in the black for all eternity.
Universal feats range from 3-A to Low 2-C whether the feat involves an entire space-time continuum or simply involves all matter in the universe.
Multiversal feats really depend on the context given in the comics and range from 2-C to 2-A, whether the feat involves all fifty-two universes of the Orrery or infinite universes or timelines.
Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Antimatter Universe are higher degree of Low 2-C than regular positive matter universes.
Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and ths Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.
Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given they have two infinities above Low 2-C.
Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.
The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.
The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.
The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.
Hypertime is High 1-C for scaling to the Divine Continuum, but no one has been shown to actually scale to its true nature, thus feats of creation or destruction involving Hypertime timelines should be considered 2-A depending on the context.
The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.
The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.
Beings from the Unseen Council are 1-B for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, including the Sixth Dimension, adhering to eight infinities above Low 2-C.
The Light of Creation is 1-B for transcending and encompassing absolutely everything in the cosmology, including the Greater Omniverse and the Unseen Council, adhering to nine or ten infinities above Low 2-C.
The Great Darkness is 1-B for having preceded and been the rival force of the Light of Creation.
What do you think about this? I think that it seems good to apply.
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Will comment before I need to sleep. Looks good.
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BTW bro, when will the cosmology blog be changed?
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How does the wiki treat Comic Book Limbo? I am aware it's the only structure within Animal Mans cosmology that is still acknowledged as being relevant in the cosmology, but does that include... y'know, the basics that it had in Animal Man (I.e. the edge of the creative force, unfolding the entire cosmology from an Implicate Order, viewing the rest of the cosmology as fictional)?
Because Limbo alone is a good 2 additional layers of infinity.
Because Limbo alone is a good 2 additional layers of infinity.
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It was decided not to include older Grant Morrison material in the Crisis Cosmology, hence why I wanted to possibly do a pre-2000 Morrison Cosmology.
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As soon as sufficiently mods agree with the op.
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Looks like I'll make a thread but after the new cosmology blog is created and it was the right time for a new CRT
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What about scaling changes?
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