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If Goku with 10x Kaioken (Only power level increased) got resistance to time stop hax, so, by powerscaling, we could assume that the God Tiers (Whis, Vados, Beerus and Champa) can also do this ... right?
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DBS God Tiers possible upgrade
- Thread starter TakatoBlue
- Start date
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- beerus dragon ball vados whis
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Didn't Goku say he was now above Hit's brand of time manipulation? Not time manipulation in general?
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Did any of the God Tiers show any sign of being to react during the Time Stop?
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In terms of speed Goku only blitz him by doing the same thing he was doing, guessing where Hit was going to attacking him before hand.
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- Thread starter
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Well, he said it about the Tokitobashi, and Tokitobashi is a time stop hax.
I believe that even if Hitto could stop time indefinitely, Goku would be able to attack through the Time Stop.
Not a general time manipulation resistance, like time rewind, but at least resistance to Time Stop
I believe that even if Hitto could stop time indefinitely, Goku would be able to attack through the Time Stop.
Not a general time manipulation resistance, like time rewind, but at least resistance to Time Stop
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- Thread starter
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Also, from what I saw, we're assuming that in DBVerse:
Power level > Hax.
Power level > Hax.
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I'm pretty sure whis and vados would have resistance to time stop as they know what HIT was doing in a fight and whis had a pretty good idea on how to counter time stop but he didn't tell to Goku on purpose.Regarding beerus and champa,Beerus was already sweating when goku was using his basic kaioken and later he used 10x kaioken so i'm not sure if toriyama was lying that he had no intention of Goku surpassing beerus or he has changed his intentions.
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He did it
This time it wasn't precog.
I Think we Should Update God Tier. After All even if Beerus said he couldn't explain Goku how to counter TokiTobashi after seing Goku using SSJB + Kaioken x10 He's still stronger than Him. And even Toriyama said he has no Plan of Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Whis so I Think God Tier should be upgrade.
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Goku breaking through time stop is may be due to his large amount of increase in godly ki on temporary basis and may be beerus and champa are not stronger but still wins against goku on the basis of prolong stamina so in this sense goku has not surpassed beerus/champa so breaking through time stop could actually be property of godly ki as it is different kind of power compared to regular ki.
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No. Beerus and Champa are still stronger. Absolutely nothing implies Goku is stronger than them. And we have a direct statement from Toriyama claiming Goku won't be surpassing Beerus or Whis anytime soon. If he became stronger than them via KK then he'd of surpassed them just like he's surpassed Vegeta, which contradicts the very statement made by the author. So no, he's not stronger than them. That's a simple fact.ShutUp123 said:
If this time resistance flies for Goku then it flies for anybody above him and that includes Whis, Vados, Beerus, and Champa as he did it purely through sheer strength. It had nothing to do with a special ability, just him being at a certain level.
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If this time resistance flies for Goku then it flies for anybody above him and that includes Whis, Vados, Beerus, and Champa as he did it purely through sheer strength. It had nothing to do with a special ability, just him being at a certain level.Bats16 said:
This ~
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IIRC strength really has nothing to do with time abilities so wouldn't goku breaking through it with sheer strength be somewhat unquantifiable?
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in db, higher ki gives you advantage over several haxFictionalBlade101 said:
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Yes i know but what i mean is it shouldnt really be a logical, scaleable boost to his power right? Because if its unquantifiable then i really dont see how this boosts Goku's stats now. Its fact he has greater strength because of the kaioken but would there be any specific LEVEL that this would put Goku at?The Living Tribunal1 said:
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Shenron could not make disappear to Vegeta and Nappa, because their power was less than the Saiyans, and remenber that shenron is a reality warping and magic user.
i say they are partially invulnerable to the hax, it all depends on how strong that is he user of the hax
i say they are partially invulnerable to the hax, it all depends on how strong that is he user of the hax
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How exactly is Shenron a reality warper? Is it because of wish granting?AllFiction said:
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this is interesting, what upgrade are you going for? High 3-A?. Personally a Low 2-C rating is too high for now considering.....
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This isn't tier related Dragon. It's hax related.
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ah okay. well I'd say their ki just overpowers time hax to a certain extent tbh. It isn't an outright immune to time manipulation situation yet.
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yea, they asked to make disappear the Saiyans, but shenron could not, because the power of saiyans was much higher than the and its creator.
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I (unfortunately) believe that it's more of a down for Hit's hax than an up for the god tiers, because of the wording. I'm begging someone to prove me wrong. Please. I want to be wrong in this case.Dragonmasterxyz said:
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I could tell u what my friend thinks of this whole thing about Goke moving in Hits time stop if u wantThe real cal howard said:
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Please do.
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There are certain cases where Hax > power level.First Ginyu can exchange bodies with Goku who has higher power level second Super Buu can absorb Mystic Gohan who has higher power level.Vegito was resistant to all kinds of buu's hax is most likely down to fusion through potora earings because if that is not the case then Mystic Gohan would not absorb.Now regarding Goku, it is either down to
a) High amount of Godly Ki power which is different from ordinary ki which means you need certain type of high enough power to overpower time skip.Even he say my level is beyond time skip but he is also channeling his powers though means of Godly Ki which makes this uncertain that if any other character could do the same through other power means as Goku powers is based on Ki of the Gods
or
b) Due to kaioken and Godly Ki have some special effect to grant him immunity to time skip
I'm more inclined to the first
a) High amount of Godly Ki power which is different from ordinary ki which means you need certain type of high enough power to overpower time skip.Even he say my level is beyond time skip but he is also channeling his powers though means of Godly Ki which makes this uncertain that if any other character could do the same through other power means as Goku powers is based on Ki of the Gods
or
b) Due to kaioken and Godly Ki have some special effect to grant him immunity to time skip
I'm more inclined to the first
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This is what my friend said on the whole situation overall:The real cal howard said:
"Let's talk about goku and the Toki-Tobashi in episode 39
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Hittos Toki-Tobashi is described as a technique that can "freeze time" which means simply removes all kinetic energy from a system (time is a measurement , a description of how objects interact within a system)
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Now I want to try and clear some points up that refer to logic
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—Misconceptions—
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"Goku is now beyond time"
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- not exactly, one reason being you can't be "beyond time", it doesn't work like that, time its self is not a force, its a measurement. If he was "beyond time" he couldn't move at all due to v= d/t, if you took Time out. It would be v= d, and that makes no sense
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"Goku/hitto has infinite speed"
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Not exactly, when goku is stuck in rest frame inside the Toki-Tobashi he simply has no kinetic energy and nothing around him can move or anything else under its influence can interact, so it simulates instantaneous movement to the observer at rest due to they cant precive time which would make hitto to them move any distance in zero Time, yet in hittos time frame he's still moving in a time frame
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"Goku gained an immunity to time powers?"
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This is actually a hard subject to cover, so I'll propose multiple ideas.
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Explanation 1:
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- hittos Toki-Tobashi can only take the kinetic energy from beings weaker than him , gokus kaio-ken ssgss may be a reason why hittos Toki-Tobashi isn't working anymore simply because it loses its effect once a being is stronger .
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Explanation 2:
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- gokus statement "I'm beyond your Toki-Tobashi" simply means he is faster than hittos ability to initiate the technique (I know we saw what seemed to be that he reacted while it was active) however it could mean hitto is losing focus and isn't properly executing the Toki-Tobashi
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Also note: hittos line "I'm now 0.2 seconds faster" isn't literal, why? It contradicts its self, a "time freezing" technique doesn't male you faster , it makes everything in motion inert, which would create a logic paradox, how ever you can argue the semantics that he means simply that he has 0.2 seconds now instead of 0.1 seconds"
Did this help?
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Yes. Immensely.
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Kk. Happy to help lolThe real cal howard said:
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Let me get this right. How is Goku faster than time with Kaioken x 10? This is clearly an outliner or the author doesn't know how time works and it doesn't even make any sense because all he did was use Kaioken x10. So you're telling me that anyone that is 10x times stronger than Kaioken SSGB Goku can ignore Hit's time-skip? That retcon's the whole concept of freezing time if all you need is higher stats and no special ability.
There is no such thing as being "faster than time". because time doesn't have a velocity. it just doesn't make any sense at all. No upgrade for anyone. Is clearly an outliner, until is explain how can Goku move inside of it, if not is just precog.
There is no such thing as being "faster than time". because time doesn't have a velocity. it just doesn't make any sense at all. No upgrade for anyone. Is clearly an outliner, until is explain how can Goku move inside of it, if not is just precog.
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power level > haxHokageMangaVox said:
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Its Toriyama, its not suprise if he doesnt know how time worksHokageMangaVox said:
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So ...
goku has infinity speed ?
goku has infinity speed ?
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No. Time resistance, and honestly, I think we should wait until the logistics of this ability is explained in the next episode so, closing.
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If people are having fun having talks about infinite speed, then please continue as a joke. Anybody seriously trying to propose Goku has infinite speed must drop the topic immediately.
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