DBS Goku hax revision

[Saintdhqhdy]

Again, ki dropping heavily is a result of being severely injured. Example off the top of my head: When Dr. Gero donuted Yamcha, everyone felt Yamcha's ki decrease substantially, indicating that something horrible had happened to him

It's neither

the analogy here doesn’t work. You admit that his ki decreased, letting everyone know he probably got bodied. Btw nobody thought he was dead here, they just know went his ki go down. Goku on the other hand, ki went down to 0 instantly, hence why ppl thought he was gone. And Gohan and Piccolo who was right next to the crater couldn’t see him either.

Tien actually notes on his power draining, implying that it didn’t go down in 1 go, obviously different from Goku who pl went down instantly.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Dropping to an infinitesimally small amount of Ki that can hardly be felt, if even at all, is a very strong possibility

As for the Ultra Instinct not showing up thing... Yeah that's literally just suspense. A more in-universe explanation would be that Goku's in the process of his awakening/breaking through his shell. Hell, they even slow down Zeno moving to press the button to eliminate Goku to build up that suspense

No, it is not a strong possibility. Because it was stated that he self-destructed, at least I'm sure he doesn't appear there because as I mentioned, Goku appears out of nowhere for the first 3 seconds of his Ultra Instinct form. On the subject of tension, all fictional structures already depend on them. This is not a counter argument

 

[CloverDragon03]

the analogy here doesn’t work. You admit that his ki decreased, letting everyone know he probably got bodied. Btw nobody thought he was dead here, they just know went his ki go down. Goku on the other hand, ki went down to 0 instantly, hence why ppl thought he was gone. And Gohan and Piccolo who was right next to the crater couldn’t see him either.

Tien actually notes on his power draining, implying that it didn’t go down in 1 go, obviously different from Goku who pl went down instantly.

This is... not proving anything? I never said it has to go down instantly or gradually or whatever. Ki going down, as a whole, is indicative of being in mortal danger

In addition, the crater is massive. Goku is literally a tiny speck in comparison, and also very well could've been underneath some rubble since there was quite a lot of rubble (which got sent upwards when the pillar of light came out)

 

[CloverDragon03]

No, it is not a strong possibility. Because it was stated that he self-destructed, at least I'm sure he doesn't appear there because as I mentioned, Goku appears out of nowhere for the first 3 seconds of his Ultra Instinct form. On the subject of tension, all fictional structures already depend on them. This is not a counter argument

The fact that he survived without any indication or even remote mention of regeneration, resurrection, or anything of the like is indicative of how strong a possibility this is

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

This is... not proving anything? I never said it has to go down instantly or gradually or whatever. Ki going down, as a whole, is indicative of being in mortal danger

In addition, the crater is massive. Goku is literally a tiny speck in comparison, and also very well could've been underneath some rubble since there was quite a lot of rubble.

It might be under the rubble it's just your assumption. And he was palpable no matter how critical he fell, as he appeared on Yamcha.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

The fact that he survived without any indication or even remote mention of regeneration, resurrection, or anything of the like is indicative of how strong a possibility this is

I think it's enough to say it's disappeared

 

[Nullflowerblush]

smth smth official episode summary implies that goku's body had been in the crater the entire time

I could've sworn that the only reason Zen-Oh, and Beerus, and Vados, and the Grand Priest even entertained the idea that Goku had been "vaporized" was purely because they believed that the Spirit Bomb was far too powerful for him to take to the face.

 

[CloverDragon03]

smth smth official episode summary implies that goku's body had been in the crater the entire time

I could've sworn that the only reason Zen-Oh, and Beerus, and Vados, and the Grand Priest even entertained the idea that Goku had been "vaporized" was purely because they believed that the Spirit Bomb was far too powerful for him to take to the face.

Could you find this scan, if possible? It'd help a ton

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

This is... not proving anything? I never said it has to go down instantly or gradually or whatever. Ki going down, as a whole, is indicative of being in mortal danger

In addition, the crater is massive. Goku is literally a tiny speck in comparison, and also very well could've been underneath some rubble since there was quite a lot of rubble.

It was to prove the analogy you used wasn’t applicable since you obviously thought it was since your reply to me saying “goku ki could not be sensed so ppl said he was dead” was “ki dropping etc” implying you think his ki just dropped bc he was injured instead of what I said, he got packed. You then try to use Yamcha vs gero as an analogy so I said to explain to you why it doesn’t work here.

idk why you typed the last part, it doesn’t really change anything. I just noted on that to explain the different situations. Also you just made a claim you can’t prove

 

[Angelzewolf]

The state of extinction in the two is definitely different. You can see this in the comments I wrote above. The extinction and return of Android 17 is a different matter of discussion. The issue I'm dealing with here is Goku's annihilation. In particular, you need to offer me an anti-feat about why Goku doesn't appear in the first 3 seconds of Ultra Instinct and then appears later. Goku's Ki could not be felt in any case and his disappearance was voiced by Champa, Vados, GP. Needless to say, the attack he tanked was one with a Mid-Godly Neg.

Hype

And

Tension

Literally not everything needs to be a power or ability. You're right, 17 and Goku WERE different. In the sense, Goku was a lot more dramatic with the scene dragging out for the ultimate reveal.

People not being able to sense ki isn't even new, it's a thing from DBZ. The characters actively used it at times to hide themselves. It's way more simple to assume Goku was at a ki level low enough to not be sensed... when he was literally overwhelmed and KO'd seconds prior. You keep bringing up characters, but is there an actual statement that magically makes them exempt from occasionally failing to sense ki? Or is that just an assumption?

There is zero actual reasoning to take the extreme example over the more simpler approach.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

smth smth official episode summary implies that goku's body had been in the crater the entire time

I could've sworn that the only reason Zen-Oh, and Beerus, and Vados, and the Grand Priest even entertained the idea that Goku had been "vaporized" was purely because they believed that the Spirit Bomb was far too powerful for him to take to the face.

lmao. I've watched the episode 10 times and I'm pretty sure there's nothing going on about it.

Could you find this scan, if possible? It'd help a ton

As I said, I watched the episodes after 110 and 110 10 times without jokes and there is no such thing.

 

[CloverDragon03]

lmao. I've watched the episode 10 times and I'm pretty sure there's nothing going on about it.

As I said, I watched the episodes after 110 and 110 10 times without jokes and there is no such thing.

There's no harm in trying to find such a thing. You shouldn't be so opposed to finding evidence

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Hype

And

Tension

Literally not everything needs to be a power or ability. You're right, 17 and Goku WERE different. In the sense, Goku was a lot more dramatic with the scene dragging out for the ultimate reveal.

People not being able to sense ki isn't even new, it's a thing from DBZ. The characters actively used it at times to hide themselves. It's way more simple to assume Goku was at a ki level low enough to not be sensed... when he was literally overwhelmed and KO'd seconds prior. You keep bringing up characters, but is there an actual statement that magically makes them exempt from occasionally failing to sense ki? Or is that just an assumption?

There is zero actual reasoning to take the extreme example over the more simpler approach.

I repeat over and over again that Goku's disappearance is being said by Champa, Vados and GP. The fact that Goku does not appear in Ultra Instinct for the first 3 seconds and then suddenly appears is proof that he is not there and disappeared.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

There's no harm in trying to find such a thing. You shouldn't be so opposed to finding evidence

Of course He can. I'm just saying it would be a waste of time and I have no problem with that

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

lmao. I've watched the episode 10 times and I'm pretty sure there's nothing going on about it.

As I said, I watched the episodes after 110 and 110 10 times without jokes and there is no such thing.
.

Ppl just like to lie

 

[Damage3245]

I repeat over and over again that Goku's disappearance is being said by Champa, Vados and GP. The fact that Goku does not appear in Ultra Instinct for the first 3 seconds and then suddenly appears is proof that he is not there and disappeared.

And Goku suddenly has the ability to regenerate his clothes now?

How come he doesn't do that any of the thousands of other times he receives clothing damage?

 

[CloverDragon03]

And Goku suddenly has the ability to regenerate his clothes now?

How come he doesn't do that any of the thousands of other times he receives clothing damage?

His Mastered Ultra Instinct form actually shreds away even more of his clothing

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

And Goku suddenly has the ability to regenerate his clothes now?

How come he doesn't do that any of the thousands of other times he receives clothing damage?

I couldn't figure out what you said has anything to do with it, I want you to open the subject a little more.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I sure love watching muscular men lose their clothes (in dragon ball)

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Anywho.

「力の大会」もついに半ばを過ぎ、第11宇宙の神々はジレンに指令を出す。孫悟空を潰せと。ついに動き出した第11宇宙最強の戦士ジレン。悟空は嬉しそうに身構える。が、ジレンが気を開放した途端、武舞台に残っている全ての選手がジレンの気の暴風に圧倒される。破壊神ビルスでさえも呆気にとられ息を呑む。超サイヤ人ブルーとなった悟空が界王拳を限界まで引き上げて挑むも、ジレンには全く通じない。全ての技を跳ね返され、打ちのめされた悟空に誰もが絶望したその時、倒れていた悟空からこれまで見たこともない気の奔流が噴き上がる！！

---

The "Tournament of Power" is finally halfway through, and the gods of the Eleventh Universe issue a command to Jiren: "Destroy Son Goku". Jiren, the strongest warrior in the Eleventh Universe, finally makes his move. Goku prepares hapily. But as soon as Jiren releases his Ki, all the remaining players on the stage are overwhelmed by the torrent of Jiren's Ki. Even Beerus, the God of Destruction, gasps in amazement. Goku, now a Super Saiyan Blue, raised his Kaio-ken to the limit, but it was completely useless against Jiren. All of his moves were deflected, and everyone despaired at the beaten Goku, but a torrent of energy that had never been seen before suddenly burst out from the fallen Goku!

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Are we really talking about his ki vanishing when he acquired the single form that has the best ki usage among everything else? So good a usage that he could go at it three separate times while nearly exhausted? It's more likely that his ki vanished due to him trying to survive the bomb this reaching the realm of perfect control. The byproduct of that is the heat we see when he finishes transforming.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

Ppl just like to lie

Im serious. I watched 7-8 times

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Anywho.

Bro cooked.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Im serious. I watched 7-8 times

I was talking about the other guy

 

[Damage3245]

I couldn't figure out what you said has anything to do with it, I want you to open the subject a little more.

If Goku was completely vaporized, that means his clothes were too. Yet when we see him getting back up in Ultra Instinct, he still has his damaged clothes (with the battle damage he had accumulated so far).

How did he regenerate his clothes while also keeping them with the same damage they had before?

Not to mention Goku still had scratches on his face from the earlier battles... How did he regenerate his whole body but not them?

 

[CloverDragon03]

Anywho.

The fact that it refers to Goku as "the fallen Goku" and it states the pillar of light came from him indicates to me that he had not actually been vaporized

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

If Goku was completely vaporized, that means his clothes were too. Yet when we see him getting back up in Ultra Instinct, he still has his damaged clothes (with the battle damage he had accumulated so far).

How did he regenerate his clothes while also keeping them with the same damage they had before?

Not to mention Goku still had scratches on his face from the earlier battles... How did he regenerate his whole body but not them?

Mid godly regen negation for face scratches?

 

[Huesito88]

Are we really talking about his ki vanishing when he acquired the single form that has the best ki usage among everything else? So good a usage that he could go at it three separate times while nearly exhausted? It's more likely that his ki vanished due to him trying to survive the bomb this reaching the realm of perfect control. The byproduct of that is the heat we see when he finishes transforming.

If a persons Ki dropped to zero they're dead no? (Not arguing that Goku did get Vaporized or Higher)

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Anywho.

“smth smth official episode summary implies that goku's body had been in the crater the entire time” does anyone else not see this implication he claimed existed ?

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

If Goku was completely vaporized, that means his clothes were too. Yet when we see him getting back up in Ultra Instinct, he still has his damaged clothes (with the battle damage he had accumulated so far).

How did he regenerate his clothes while also keeping them with the same damage they had before?

Sorry man it's not Anime +18. He had to have her outfit so that little Goku wouldn't be seen

How logical do you think Goku, who has the power to destroy 12 universes, hasn't had his clothes ripped all this time after the damage he has taken?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

If a persons Ki dropped to zero they're dead no? (Not arguing that Goku did get Vaporized or Higher)

No they are mostly hiding it. While completely out of ki means dead yes that didn't happen here. It clearly didn't because he is still alive...and has ki to use.

 

[Saintdhqhdy]

Sorry man it's not Anime +18. He had to have her outfit so that little Goku wouldn't be seen

How logical do you think Goku, who has the power to destroy 12 universes, hasn't had his clothes ripped all this time after the damage he has taken?

Bro thought goku would appear naked I wouldn’t mind seeing that tho

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

The fact that it refers to Goku as "the fallen Goku" and it states the pillar of light came from him indicates to me that he had not actually been vaporized

The fact that the pillar of Light you mentioned does not appear in the first 3 seconds is still not an anti feat.

 

[Damage3245]

Sorry man it's not Anime +18. He had to have her outfit so that little Goku wouldn't be seen

How logical do you think Goku, who has the power to destroy 12 universes, hasn't had his clothes ripped all this time after the damage he has taken?

So you don't have any explanation?

 

[CloverDragon03]

The fact that the pillar of Light you mentioned does not appear in the first 3 seconds is still not an anti feat.

It's called building suspense

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

If a persons Ki dropped to zero they're dead no? (Not arguing that Goku did get Vaporized or Higher)

Yes, it should be like that

 

[CodeCCLL]

Clover's and Damage's arguments make sense to me.

I don't see resurrection or regeneration feat here. This is very common in fiction. The protagonist is injured as a result of an attack and his heart stops. Everyone thinks he is dead but then he suddenly appears at a critical moment, he isn't dead. There are many similar examples.

 

[Damage3245]

@DarkDragonMedeus @CloverDragon03 This has been thoroughly debunked and rejected, and it's been open longer than 48 hours so I don't have any issues with closing this now.

 

[Damage3245]

Re-opening it because another user told me they have a new argument to give.

 

[Burkiqwe]

So you don't have any explanation?

With that logic we need to downgrade dbs, how can low multiversal atacks can't rip their enemies clothes? In the series caharacters tanks low multiversal atacks and their clothes are still on. You can't use that logic on characters. Your logic have issue.