Which would be a completely separate topic. Not part of this.
I'm saying you can't use that logic on dbs characters. All characters should be fight naked with that logic.
That seems pretty arbitrary.
This is an especially good point imo, Goku being completely vaporized with nothing left would mean he'd have to have regenerated his clothes, which is not something there's a precedent for in past cases of regeneration.
There should be an explanation. How can goku appears after gods and angels sayed his body completely destroyed. Regeneration are not shown but this should be a resurrection feat. There is no explanation except that.
There is a perfectly serviceable explanation.
It's an example for Plot-Induced Stupidity
I see what's going on here, and no, it demonstrably isn't because you can actually explain this. A piece of Goku's clothing is shown hanging from the arena's terrain in episode 122 (proving a lack of vaporization), and Goku himself emerged from the Spirit Bomb alright without any signs of regeneration or resurrection.
Frankly, should a completely evaporated character be left completely naked due to the anime age audience? Zamasu or Piccolo was only shown that way with part of his arm amputated. Shown here is the evaporation of the whole body. Due to the age of the anime, they couldn't design Goku naked.
That does have ramifications, though, and this feels more like a conscious decision rather than a concession that had to be made because of what I said about episode 122
A difference of opinion, with no evidence yet given as to why Damage disagrees with the OP's side.
If you've watched the full clip and concluded that there had been no occurrence out of the ordinary within it and no abilities being shown or inferred from the actions presented or the statements made and confirmed unanimously by the spectators, then I kindly ask you to watch it again with more consideration.
The conjecture in question:
The characters only give conjecture that he might have been vaporized.
I'm assuming your argument here is that Goku's energy was lowered to the point no one could sense him, and he then proceeded to hide somewhere? He couldn't have left the premises of the ToP arena without being disqualified mind you, which goes without saying but obvious answers go alongside silly arguments. Then he would have had to hide somewhere within the arena, immediately after tanking the Spirit Bomb and with speed so fast the Angels didn't see it?
..Seriously?
Saying that the everyone in the arena including the GoDs, Angels and the Grand Priest weren't 'paying attention' is silly in it's own right, especially when considering their eyes were literally all glued on the Spirit Bomb and the fight with Jiren. As for your point on Goku not being able to be seen while buried in the Genkidama by the others, this is quite literally headcanon. Do better, DDM.
What about entertaining the thought that he did, and that's why he didn't call for his erasure as he did Goku's?
You'd need to make a bunch of assumptions for that to be the case, when Occam's Razor would dictate that he simply believed 17 was dead
I'm not sure that making the presumption that the Grand Priest, the character depicted as the wisest of all beings in existence both ****** up thinking 17 was dead despite his cosmic awareness, and made the second **** up of forgetting to erase ONLY him out of what, 70ish fighters in the TOP is the logical assumption here.
Because he was put together by Porunga... his treat.
Hm.
If I had to take a guess, "Can be used defensively and offensively, to strengthen his skin".
First off, it's not a good look that you're starting by basically saying "if you disagree, you just need to pay more attention."
This is all still in response to a conjectural statement of "he might have been vaporized."The conjecture in question:
The Grand Priest is not infallible, as shown later. He assumes 17 to be dead after his self-destruction, even with his Cosmic Awareness, which is proven false 3 episodes later.You have the trifecta of Kai, GoD, and Angel all coming to the agreement that Goku had been completely destroyed by the Spirit Bomb and that's why he had dissapeared you literally can not ask for a more reliable source of information nor a more impartial one since Vados, an Angel from a different universe than Goku also believes this to be the case.
Oh wait you can, because the GRAND PRIEST SAYS SO.
The dude that literally hason his profile.
I don't agree with Damage's logic of "characters have concealed their energy before" as that's not what I think it is. Rather, I'd say Goku's energy couldn't be felt because it was so infinitesimally small at that point in time due to Goku being nearly dead. Energy dropping to such a low amount when a character is near death has a precedent.
Null explained the Krillin situation, so I'll be the one to explain that if you're claiming Goku was in fact vaporized, you'd need to also accept that this would mean Goku's clothing was also vaporized, which means he had to have magically created it again, which is an assumption with no backing to it.
Some of the specific reasoning given was a bit ridiculous, I'd agree, but the debunk itself is actually very strong and I'd say there's no good reason to give Regeneration or Resurrection here. Neither of these have actually been proven. I was in support of the thread being reopened due to you saying you had arguments to give, but these are far from strong arguments.
Argument aside, tone it down. You don't just tell someone "do better" because you don't like their arguments, it's never this serious
No, it is not identical. Not in the slightest.
No. Goku regen from concept being erased
I don't see why you guys are choosing to hold on to this facebook DBZ meme tier clothes argument. Do you honestly believe that the people absorbed by Cell got revived naked because it'd 'make more sense'? How about literally everyone on Earth that got revived after Buu's massacre? Come on.
If you came out of that scene thinking nothing was out of the ordinary, then yeah, you should have paid more attention.
By beings with cosmic awareness and the highest perception speed and intelligence in the verse, right.
I'd rather just completely disregard this clothing argument but still, timestamp?
I know DDM can do better, it isn't personal.
Even when Grand Priest said Android 17 was gone, Zeno didn't eliminate it. Because when Android 17 reappeared, the gods and angels saw it as normal. As for Goku, they were completely surprised. I still don't understand why Goku's outfit being there in episode 122 is anti-feat to this, it feels really weird. At the beginning of the Goku-Jiren fight, we see that only the Black T-shirt is left inside after opening Ultra Instinct, while standing in normal clothing, but it is not related to the one in episode 122. And I'm waiting for an answer from you guys about why Goku doesn't appear for the first 3 seconds while still in Ultra Instinct, but then suddenly appears.
The Gods and Angels (including GP) were all sure that Goku was gone. Zeno was about to eliminate Goku. Seriously, how can you prove it was a fake death?
Not to mention Beerus saying this immediately before Goku reappears from thin air, after the World of Void has been shaken mind you
Goku:
why would you limit feats due to cognitive dissonance
This is so highly dismissive of anyone that dares to commit the mortal sin of disagreeing with you that it really makes me not want to engage. Your argument is not infallible. Preferably avoid stuff like this please
Yes, even cosmic beings can be wrong. Your point?
Because the other assumption on 17’s case would be that Jiren’s comically large blast killed 17, which is why he specifically elaborates that Jiren will get no penalties. Even the Zeno’s were wondering if the blast made contact at first
17
-
Goku
There is a distinct difference made in his words when dealing with the two situations. One of confirmation when it came to Goku, one of assumption when made to 17. Add to that how 17 was not eliminated from the tournament, and alongside with the GP's cosmic awareness it can be inferred that he was aware of 17's survival.
Being insulting is one thing, but don’t try to defend yourself being insulting. Like seriously, just don’t
my point is that when the most knowledgeable creatures in the verse make all come to a conclusion with a detailed explanation of what had occurred, you don't just throw that out of the window because you want to see Goku naked in the next scene for maximum realism.
Again, that assumption doesn't hold weight due to 17 being made an exception and not being disqualified like the rest, and seeing that Goku would have been disqualified while presumably dead proves that it isn't because they thought 17 had died as well.
Luffy: -Has his voice dissappear and then comes back with a transformation
oh shit, I didn’t read allat but bro might be cooking
