- 13,896
- 5,392
Disclaimer: You should probably read some of the stuff on page 2 if you're just now seeing the crt, there's a lot to catch up on.
Also the speed discussion is currently over/paused, so you really only need to read part 2 right now.
Okay, let’s start with something more important, and perhaps a tiny bit controversial:
How can we use saitama for scaling?
So far we have found a few ways
For one, confidence scaling based on characters’ current knowledge of Saitama’s power, the rare 1 time instance of saitama using his full power against cosmic Garou, as well as saitama’s statements and reactions (calling flashy flash kinda fast, being surprised by speed levels)
However, I am going to propose that under a couple conditions, saitama actually does have consistent AP (and speed sort of) when casual which can possibly be used for scaling.
I’d say it’s about fair to rate saitama’s “normal punch” at about high 6-A and FTL. And yes I have some examples of this.
1. Speed
As usual, I'll let the scans do some of the talking.
here we have some scenes of garou manging to dodge some blows and land hits against saitama, which is rather peculiar when we see that in all of these instances, saitama was actually not trying to be hit, given his dodging everything before and attempting to counter garou's consecutive normal punches. If saitama is truly viewing garou as the over hundred times slower that his scaling indicates, then he wouldn't even be remotely surprised or caught by any of these things, it would be the equivalent of a snail trying to break your ankles by making a left turn while still going an inch per hour, it's a bit weird. Of course we could chalk it up to "he simply didn't care if he was hit" but it is clear that he was actually dodging garou, and when he was genuinely trying to land blows but was they were redirected, he is notably acknowledging his water stream rock smashing fist, but it's not even just that he was intentionally pulling his punches and that it's just a skill feat only and absolutely nothing else
As you'll recall, Saitama was completely unimpressed with Suiryu's martial arts, and everything he did, saitama only said "Martial arts is just moving in a way that looks cool"
So there is a very clear distinction between how saitama treats a stronger opponent like evolved perfect garou vs someone like suiryu, even though he is still meant to have an absolutely gargantuan advantage in speed and strength and logically shouldn't be able to tell a difference, and yet he does. This just goes to support that when Saitama is semi off guard but still willing to fight, his speed is actually much lower at times.
Edit note: this does not necessarily mean that saitama’s perception is truly only ftl when casual, but rather that it is clear that he for some reason fails to actually move fast enough to react against these things. It could be him literally not reacting due to being off guard, or just a standard tactic that he won’t move faster than ftl when casual. In either case, it’s an observable phenomenon that he’s only ftl when casual.
2. Speaking of strength, lets talk about the big one, his AP. I'm gonna break down each piece of evidence with a bit more elaboration this time, so we fully understand the implications.
here we start off with statement one, that being...
"No matter how many times it was hit with his signature finishing move, the One Punch, the spaceship was so sturdy that it did not sink"
but wait a minute, it refers to his casual attack as a "signature" move, but that's weird
after all, if every punch really is in a vastly different range depending on how casual he's feeling at the moment, then it wouldn't be a "signature" attack really, now would it. In fact if every attack truly is completely inconsistent, then there is absolutely NO way (from an author intent standpoint)it would make any sense for that statement to exist. But hey, maybe you're not convinced, that's fair, it's just one standout thing, and it's a guidebook statement only, it's not exactly decisive of anything.
Exhibit B: literally the very first punch in the series
Saitama is seen getting visibly and audibly angry after the fight ends in one punch. Now, if saitama really throws a a high 6-A normal punch one second, a high 6-C the next, and a 9-B one another day, then this scene would make absolutely no sense at all. If saitama is truly just controlling his power and hitting with different force every fight, then why would this be something he's mad about, since he knows damn well that his full power can literally one shot anybody to begin with. Would he really give a **** if a 7-C monster survived a 9-B punch from him? In fact, it would imply that saitama would see a 9-A who survived a 9-B punch as impressive, but also get pissed that a 5-B monster couldn't take a 5-A punch, which is a completely ridiculous concept.
Counterargument alert!: "But wait a minute, what about all the people who have taken attacks from him before? They can't ALL be high 6-A, that's so stupid Ziller, we all know that you can't use saitama for scaling, he holds back all the time!"
And you know what, the first half of that is correct, we can't scale using everything that's taken a punch from him, so lets lay down some criteria.
1. Saitama must be willing to kill
so yeah, do not bring up Rover, as you can see below
plus he literally tried to tame rover with a bone before punching him. He literally says himself that he likes dogs.
Kombu Infinity you say? Yeah, no, that's not gonna fly either. He literally just wanted something to eat, so it isn't plausible that he would hit his dinner with enough force to vaporize his next meal. It was also entirely off screen, so it can't really be used as an anti feat to begin with, but as you can see, it's definitely not evidence of anything.
anyways, the guidebook once again (boros W) refers to his normal punches this way: "Will Saitama, whose one-punch strategy has buried so many powerful enemies, be cornered like this?"
this of course is evidence once again suggesting that the "one punch" has an almost fixed AP, and that when he fights an enemy he is willing to kill, his first punch is the one he always uses in his "one punch strategy"
compelling, but we have to be safe, we can't accept this crt on this evidence alone, right?
ahem
Exhibit D: Saitama vs Gouketsu
"Did you think Gouketsu was strong?"
"Hmm, I can't tell if he was any different from the rest. It only took one punch."
ok, so here we have saitama implying that he would have used whether or not Gouketsu survived the punch as a unit of measurement of whether or not he was strong. And what do all metrics need? Simple, units of measurement have to stay the same.
Ok, so we have some supporting evidence, we even have a scene suggesting that his punch is a unit of measurement. "B-but is that really enou-"
EXHIBIT E:"But there's no enemies I can't beat with normal punches in the first place"
given that he didn't beat boros with a normal punch, we know for a fact that this is pre boros, which is further supported by the fact that the monsters bringing up the cadre is only due to the same rumor that brought Kombu Infinity (hey he made another cameo in the crt) to city Z, the whole gathering of monsters thing was already out there long before Boros even came to earth you know.
Anyways, even Saitama himself sees "normal punch" as a classification. It's pretty self explanatory.
With that out of the way, lets pull off the bandaid real quick
armored Boros' durability is higher than Orochi's. Orochi was completely obliterated by Saitama's signature move, the one punch, the normal punch, whatever you wanna call it, meanwhile Boros tanked that shit like a ******* champ, and which even made Saitama go "hmm?"
here's Orochi's limbs being completely pulverized by a "normal slap", which, judging by the fact that he's literally just slapping him, is probably much weaker than the punch he threw at armored Boros to begin with lmao. Orochi was a joke.
last minute argument that I kinda just realized: The fact that he couldn't tell Gouketsu was different from the rest since he got one punched, while he knew beyond a doubt that Boros was strong, does speak volumes about the validity of the evidence.
Also, we should add that speed stuff as major points for garou's post sage centipede speed justification, because that's really ****** impressive and gonna help his scaling.
We should also keep ******** on fodder flash because his ass is NOT hitting casual saitama, rip bozo ass fodder fake speedster, bro got blitzed by every relevant antagonist and protagonist in the series bruh.
Important notes: No, armored boros isn't scaling above garou. He was intentionally trying not to kill garou because he saw him as human, and given that garou took consecutive normal punches, it's obvious that he's vastly more durable than even meteoric burst Boros. I'd use that to scale him above Boros if it weren't for the fact that Garou is already stronger.
Armored Boros' AP doesn't really scale, all things considered. He never even throws a punch during his entire time being there, and confidence scaling doesn't really work either since there's no actual demonstration of that, and he knew damn well that the moment his armor broke that released form would maul most opponents.
Boros' armor did break from the normal punch, but it's scaling using a comparison rather than direct scaling
It's boros upscaling from Orochi, who was consistently completely obliterated by Saitama's attacks, while Boros was still completely intact, wasn't even bleeding, and could still stand up and talk easily and all that good stuff, so he's just upscaling heavily from Orochi's durability.
Q: what about saitama’s passive growth?
A:
Also the speed discussion is currently over/paused, so you really only need to read part 2 right now.
Okay, let’s start with something more important, and perhaps a tiny bit controversial:
How can we use saitama for scaling?
So far we have found a few ways
For one, confidence scaling based on characters’ current knowledge of Saitama’s power, the rare 1 time instance of saitama using his full power against cosmic Garou, as well as saitama’s statements and reactions (calling flashy flash kinda fast, being surprised by speed levels)
However, I am going to propose that under a couple conditions, saitama actually does have consistent AP (and speed sort of) when casual which can possibly be used for scaling.
I’d say it’s about fair to rate saitama’s “normal punch” at about high 6-A and FTL. And yes I have some examples of this.
1. Speed
As usual, I'll let the scans do some of the talking.
here we have some scenes of garou manging to dodge some blows and land hits against saitama, which is rather peculiar when we see that in all of these instances, saitama was actually not trying to be hit, given his dodging everything before and attempting to counter garou's consecutive normal punches. If saitama is truly viewing garou as the over hundred times slower that his scaling indicates, then he wouldn't even be remotely surprised or caught by any of these things, it would be the equivalent of a snail trying to break your ankles by making a left turn while still going an inch per hour, it's a bit weird. Of course we could chalk it up to "he simply didn't care if he was hit" but it is clear that he was actually dodging garou, and when he was genuinely trying to land blows but was they were redirected, he is notably acknowledging his water stream rock smashing fist, but it's not even just that he was intentionally pulling his punches and that it's just a skill feat only and absolutely nothing else
As you'll recall, Saitama was completely unimpressed with Suiryu's martial arts, and everything he did, saitama only said "Martial arts is just moving in a way that looks cool"
So there is a very clear distinction between how saitama treats a stronger opponent like evolved perfect garou vs someone like suiryu, even though he is still meant to have an absolutely gargantuan advantage in speed and strength and logically shouldn't be able to tell a difference, and yet he does. This just goes to support that when Saitama is semi off guard but still willing to fight, his speed is actually much lower at times.
Edit note: this does not necessarily mean that saitama’s perception is truly only ftl when casual, but rather that it is clear that he for some reason fails to actually move fast enough to react against these things. It could be him literally not reacting due to being off guard, or just a standard tactic that he won’t move faster than ftl when casual. In either case, it’s an observable phenomenon that he’s only ftl when casual.
2. Speaking of strength, lets talk about the big one, his AP. I'm gonna break down each piece of evidence with a bit more elaboration this time, so we fully understand the implications.
here we start off with statement one, that being...
"No matter how many times it was hit with his signature finishing move, the One Punch, the spaceship was so sturdy that it did not sink"
but wait a minute, it refers to his casual attack as a "signature" move, but that's weird
after all, if every punch really is in a vastly different range depending on how casual he's feeling at the moment, then it wouldn't be a "signature" attack really, now would it. In fact if every attack truly is completely inconsistent, then there is absolutely NO way (from an author intent standpoint)it would make any sense for that statement to exist. But hey, maybe you're not convinced, that's fair, it's just one standout thing, and it's a guidebook statement only, it's not exactly decisive of anything.
Exhibit B: literally the very first punch in the series
Saitama is seen getting visibly and audibly angry after the fight ends in one punch. Now, if saitama really throws a a high 6-A normal punch one second, a high 6-C the next, and a 9-B one another day, then this scene would make absolutely no sense at all. If saitama is truly just controlling his power and hitting with different force every fight, then why would this be something he's mad about, since he knows damn well that his full power can literally one shot anybody to begin with. Would he really give a **** if a 7-C monster survived a 9-B punch from him? In fact, it would imply that saitama would see a 9-A who survived a 9-B punch as impressive, but also get pissed that a 5-B monster couldn't take a 5-A punch, which is a completely ridiculous concept.
Counterargument alert!: "But wait a minute, what about all the people who have taken attacks from him before? They can't ALL be high 6-A, that's so stupid Ziller, we all know that you can't use saitama for scaling, he holds back all the time!"
And you know what, the first half of that is correct, we can't scale using everything that's taken a punch from him, so lets lay down some criteria.
1. Saitama must be willing to kill
so yeah, do not bring up Rover, as you can see below
plus he literally tried to tame rover with a bone before punching him. He literally says himself that he likes dogs.
Kombu Infinity you say? Yeah, no, that's not gonna fly either. He literally just wanted something to eat, so it isn't plausible that he would hit his dinner with enough force to vaporize his next meal. It was also entirely off screen, so it can't really be used as an anti feat to begin with, but as you can see, it's definitely not evidence of anything.
anyways, the guidebook once again (boros W) refers to his normal punches this way: "Will Saitama, whose one-punch strategy has buried so many powerful enemies, be cornered like this?"
this of course is evidence once again suggesting that the "one punch" has an almost fixed AP, and that when he fights an enemy he is willing to kill, his first punch is the one he always uses in his "one punch strategy"
compelling, but we have to be safe, we can't accept this crt on this evidence alone, right?
ahem
Exhibit D: Saitama vs Gouketsu
"Did you think Gouketsu was strong?"
"Hmm, I can't tell if he was any different from the rest. It only took one punch."
ok, so here we have saitama implying that he would have used whether or not Gouketsu survived the punch as a unit of measurement of whether or not he was strong. And what do all metrics need? Simple, units of measurement have to stay the same.
Ok, so we have some supporting evidence, we even have a scene suggesting that his punch is a unit of measurement. "B-but is that really enou-"
EXHIBIT E:"But there's no enemies I can't beat with normal punches in the first place"
given that he didn't beat boros with a normal punch, we know for a fact that this is pre boros, which is further supported by the fact that the monsters bringing up the cadre is only due to the same rumor that brought Kombu Infinity (hey he made another cameo in the crt) to city Z, the whole gathering of monsters thing was already out there long before Boros even came to earth you know.
Anyways, even Saitama himself sees "normal punch" as a classification. It's pretty self explanatory.
With that out of the way, lets pull off the bandaid real quick
armored Boros' durability is higher than Orochi's. Orochi was completely obliterated by Saitama's signature move, the one punch, the normal punch, whatever you wanna call it, meanwhile Boros tanked that shit like a ******* champ, and which even made Saitama go "hmm?"
here's Orochi's limbs being completely pulverized by a "normal slap", which, judging by the fact that he's literally just slapping him, is probably much weaker than the punch he threw at armored Boros to begin with lmao. Orochi was a joke.
last minute argument that I kinda just realized: The fact that he couldn't tell Gouketsu was different from the rest since he got one punched, while he knew beyond a doubt that Boros was strong, does speak volumes about the validity of the evidence.
Also, we should add that speed stuff as major points for garou's post sage centipede speed justification, because that's really ****** impressive and gonna help his scaling.
We should also keep ******** on fodder flash because his ass is NOT hitting casual saitama, rip bozo ass fodder fake speedster, bro got blitzed by every relevant antagonist and protagonist in the series bruh.
Important notes: No, armored boros isn't scaling above garou. He was intentionally trying not to kill garou because he saw him as human, and given that garou took consecutive normal punches, it's obvious that he's vastly more durable than even meteoric burst Boros. I'd use that to scale him above Boros if it weren't for the fact that Garou is already stronger.
Armored Boros' AP doesn't really scale, all things considered. He never even throws a punch during his entire time being there, and confidence scaling doesn't really work either since there's no actual demonstration of that, and he knew damn well that the moment his armor broke that released form would maul most opponents.
Boros' armor did break from the normal punch, but it's scaling using a comparison rather than direct scaling
It's boros upscaling from Orochi, who was consistently completely obliterated by Saitama's attacks, while Boros was still completely intact, wasn't even bleeding, and could still stand up and talk easily and all that good stuff, so he's just upscaling heavily from Orochi's durability.
Q: what about saitama’s passive growth?
A:
additionally, the simulation saitama is completely unusable and was rejected on the grounds that it is blatantly unreliable, as it was unable to measure saitama's full power, and thus saitama could only fight a weaker version of himself.
Last edited:
