Saitama and Garou tier 3 changes

[Worthless]

No one needs an explanation of something as basic as this, something even a 5-year-old could easily understand about what happened. But okay. Continue tormenting the only person who addresses you seriously.

 

[Golden_Void]

Here's a terrible MS paint drawing if it helps

10/10 stick galaxies

 

[Passersby]

No one needs an explanation of something as basic as this, something even a 5-year-old could easily understand about what happened. But okay. Continue tormenting the only person who addresses you seriously.

the only thing i can relate to a 5 year old here is how you can't understand basic phsyics and clearly explained concepts

listen, mate, no matter how many times you close your eyes, cover your ears, try seeth cope self validate and pat yourself in the back by saying i'm wrong and you're right, your opinion, words and arguments are worth jack sh*t, they're worhtless, if you actually want to refute the opposition and make a case for why i'm wrong you're more than welcome to,but you won't, so sure, go ahead and make up whatever dumb reason to try and justify the events based on what you want them to be, it doesn't make it any less stupid

literally all of you present in this thread started baselessly assuming whatever you wanted the feat to be and then actively tryed to make up reasons why you're right instead of looking at what happened and try to figure it out

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

the only thing i can relate to a 5 year old here is how you can't understand basic phsyics and clearly explained concepts

listen, mate, no matter how many times you close your eyes, cover your ears, try seeth cope self validate and pat yourself in the back by saying i'm wrong and you're right, your opinion, words and arguments are worth jack sh*t, they're worhtless, if you actually want to refute the opposition and make a case for why i'm wrong you're more than welcome to,but you won't, so sure, go ahead and make up whatever dumb reason to try and justify the events based on what you want them to be, it doesn't make it any less stupid

literally all of you present in this thread started baselessly assuming whatever you wanted the feat to be and then actively tryed to make up reasons why you're right instead of looking at what happened and try to figure it out

You're a clown.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

the only thing i can relate to a 5 year old here is how you can't understand basic phsyics and clearly explained concepts

Funny how you talk about "understand basic physics" when talking about a literal beam of energy made by the colliding of 2 punches that works on a scale and on a speed that completely breaks any logic of our universe...

literally all of you present in this thread started baselessly assuming whatever you wanted the feat to be and then actively tryed to make up reasons why you're right instead of looking at what happened and try to figure it out

Baseless asuming

Yeah, becuase the context clearly means that the beam destroyed the photons and nothing else. Of course, because the boom sound and particles of destruction seen, and later on a hole appearing casually when it is being talked about reversing the effects of the fight and stars reappearing does not support the argument at all. It is way more supported that only the photons were destroyed because of laws of physics that clearly do not apply to an attack that breaks any law of physics in our universe.

Edit: Rereading the conversation, I've seen you actually base your whole argument on the fact that "light would not pop out of existence immediatly, it will take ywars for us to notice that the stars disappeared".

Applying that logic is completely wrong, what do you expect, for us, the readers, to wait a hundred millions of years to see that the stars were destroyed just to behave like physics should? Fiction ignores physics more times than it follows it.

If you were to display every feat that is nonsensical, then you'd be left with none at all. There are many feats that break laws of physics, yet are accepted here: Ajimu Najimi destroying a Star with a bang, the effects are seen immediatly; Roshi blowing the Moon and the Earth being intact regardless the atmosphere, shockwaves travelling through space, etc.

 

[Epiccheev]

trust me, you, and everyone in this thread for that matter, are more than welcome to try and explain how saying "a black spehre isn't evidence for destroyed stars because that's not how light works, as even if the stars were indeed destoryed, their light would still be there" is egregious downplay based on flawed logic

because you can't,the above is an objectively correct statement, you have no idea what you're talking about and you refuse to admit it, at least @Qawsedf234 actually tried to argue, all you're currently doing patting each other's backs to appease yourself
if you're gonna claim someone's points are trash be competent enough to at least try to prove they are, i'm literally still here

I have been defeated.

 

[Passersby]

Funny how you talk about "understand basic physics" when talking about a literal beam of energy made by the colliding of 2 punches that works on a scale and on a speed that completely breaks any logic of our universe...

basically this, again

i never denied any of the supernatural feats happening in verse because we see them happening, i said your logic for scaling and your interpreation is faulty because it falls under minor scrutiny and it basically ignores physics to get a desired result that was never even proven to be, to say that again, i never denied the supernatural properties that exists in the verse just because they can't logically happen, a character's capabilities are informed by the scope of their settings, there's room for supernatural things, that I never denied, you're arguing with mid air, FTL travel and magic are both of these, they're allowable by the nature of what fiction is, for example in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied

That doesn't mean you can't calculate either of these phenomena, a calculation should have predictive value, you need to build a hypothesis, find evidence , and quantify it,quantifying said evidence requires a frame of reference for it be meaningful, which is physics and, said frame of reference is applicable unless otherwise noted by the story, setting, or characters within, if the calculation and assumptions falls apart under minor scrutiny the base assumptions or conclusions provided are most likely flawed , which is the case here, you're just making up whatever interpretation to try and justify the event based on what you want them to be-that won't make it anymore valid,You can't prove it, you've got no justification for it and you're randomly deciding that it's true and working your way backwards from there to justify it, which isn't exactly how it works, that's circular and insane

Yeah, becuase the context clearly means that the beam destroyed the photons and nothing else

i never said that, you're arguing with mid air, i said we have no idea what the black sphere is and that stands true even now

Of course, because the boom sound and particles of destruction seen, and later on a hole appearing casually when it is being talked about reversing the effects of the fight and stars reappearing does not support the argument at all.

..you are literally recycling the same arguments with different words

you assumed the stars were destroyed (with the only reason being the sphere is black?), and assumed they were being recovered(wihout proving the prior assetrion), you didn't prove either of that was happening were because it wasn't shown and you know you can't, it's, once again, pure guess work and assumptions on your part(because once again, black sphere isn't evidence of destroyed stars,because, for umpteenth time, that's not how light works), we are blissfully ignorant of what happened several hundred light years away, and that black disk, i will now call it that, if you think that thing is a void prove that it is

wasn't arguing against the fact that whatever that thing is was being undone, i said the fact that it's being undone is not supporting evidence for your claims, because you're simply assuming the stars were destroyed in the first place, the black thing being undone isn't evidence for the destruction of any star because we're blissfully unaware of whatever it is that's happening several hundred light years away from the fight, all you can get from that is the fact that whatever that black thing is is being undone

just because it's reversing whatever the black thing is isn't evidence of destroyed anything, it simply means that, the black thing is being removed, you still have no idea what it is

even if the stars were indeed destroyed, their light won't disappear, so whatever that thing is, it isn't evidence of any sort of star destruction

, prove that "void of destruction" actually implies the stars several hundred light years away were destroyed even when with basic logic we can deduce it isn't because light doesn't work like that since once again, even if you blow up the sun, nothing would change immediately (also explain the logic behind your assertion that the stars were destroyed, "we can't see their light" has no logic backing it up either and works against you for that matter), and the light from the stars should still be visible like the light from the other stars not covered by whatever the black thing is

you're basing your interpretation on literally nothing, there is no logc backing it, no evidence to support it (there being a void is no evidence for destroyed stars it's evidence against it) and the physics are against it, the stars being destroyed isn't what happened, it's what you think happened, and you have no evidence for it other than faulty logic

really what frame of reference are you basing this interpretation on?
because it's certainly not logic or physics

the rest is nothing

 

[Reiner04]

I conceed to @Passersby sama.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

basically this, again

You sent a whole 2 paragraphs that added literally nothing to the matter until the very end.

Regardless, almost every feat breaks the law of physics in every series. If you're going to actually disregard every feat that does not make sense just because something so insignificant as "light should take more time to disappear, so the effects would not be noticed immediatly", then every fictional feat would be disregarded.

Ajimu Najimi destroyed a Star, its effects were seen immediatly. Roshi blew the Moon, it didn't affect Earth's seas at all. Goku and Beerus were making shockwaves travel through space, even if shockwaves cannot travel through space due to the lack of matter.

Should I continue? Every fictional feat breaks some physical rules. Yet, you're complaining to downplay OPM because "light did not disappear immediatly", when we're talking to an attack that travelled massively faster than light and whose recoil sent Garou and Saitama to Jupiter in seconds.

i never said that, you're arguing with mid air, i said we have no idea what the black sphere is and that stands true even now

Yeah, but the assumption that its cause is the SSSP^2 hold more basis if looking at the context that just photons were erased. And if it weren't the photons just erased, then the feat is illogical

..you are literally recycling the same arguments with different words

Of course, because if you read the panels, you can easily see that it is implied that the black hole was created by the serious punch squared.

Saying "well, the hole is because something else!" is not an argument.

even if the stars were indeed destroyed, their light won't disappear, so whatever that thing is, it isn't evidence of any sort of star destruction

Source: I made it up. We're talking about series who break the Speed of Light like nothing, in which characters can talk in space and a beam can travel faster than the speed of light. Yet, "light not disappearing" is supposed to be a problem?

Again: what are we supposed, to have a timeskip of hundreds of years to see the consequences of the serious punch just so it pleases you? What you purpose makes no sense. There are many times when feats like this, where the effects of the destruction on a far away side of the universe are seen instantly, yet it does not disregard those feats.

the rest is nothing

Your whole argument is "it does not work like that because physics does not allow so!"... in a work of fiction, with an attack that breaks physics.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Anyway, I'm leaving this debate. It's pointless trying to debate if the whole basis is light does not behave like that in real world.

Right now, the stars being destroyed makes way more sense than anything you're purposing, as many people has said, and your only counter argument to it is that it does not follow IRL light behaviour.

If things change later on, and the feat is explained to be something else, then yeah, it'd not be used, but not just because we'd have to wait thousands of years to see the consequences of an attack, therefore it is illogical and should not be used

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Just close it, before it becomes a mess.

 

[Passersby]

You sent a whole 2 paragraphs that added literally nothing to the matter until the very end.

that just means that you probably didn't understand them

Regardless, almost every feat breaks the law of physics in every series

never mind, you probably didn't even read them

i never denied any of the supernatural feats happening in verse because we see them happening, i said your logic for scaling and your interpreation of this feat is faulty because it falls under minor scrutiny and it basically ignores physics to get a desired result that was never even proven or shown to be true, to say that again, i never denied the supernatural properties that exists in the verse just because they can't logically happen, a character's capabilities are informed by the scope of their settings, there's room for supernatural things, that I never denied, you're arguing with mid air, FTL travel and magic are both of these, they're allowable by the nature of what fiction is, for example in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied, i never denied it either

a calculation for anything here should have predictive value, you need to build a hypothesis, find evidence , and quantify it,quantifying said evidence requires a frame of reference for it be meaningful, which is physics and, said frame of reference is applicable unless otherwise noted by the story, setting, or characters within, if the calculation and assumptions falls apart under minor scrutiny the base assumptions or conclusions provided are most likely flawed , which is the case here, you're just making up whatever interpretation to try and justify the event based on what you want them to be-(star destruction was never shown, you assumed there was any when there wasn't)that won't make it anymore valid,You can't prove it, you've got no justification for it and you're randomly deciding that it's true and working your way backwards from there to justify it, which isn't exactly how it works, that's circular and insane

there, the same paragaraph with some minor changes, conveniently highlighted for you to understand i never denied that

If you're going to actually disregard every feat that does not make sense just because something so insignificant as "light should take more time to disappear, so the effects would not be noticed immediatly", then every fictional feat would be disregarded.

i'm disregarding it because none of you has yet to prove the notion that anything was actually destroyed, you basically read nothing of what i posted huh

you assumed the stars were destroyed (with the only reason being the sphere is black?), and assumed they were being recovered(wihout proving the prior assetrion), you didn't prove either of that was happening were because it wasn't shown and you know you can't, it's, once again, pure guess work and assumptions on your part(because once again, black sphere isn't evidence of destroyed stars,because, for umpteenth time, that's not how light works), we are blissfully ignorant of what happened several hundred light years away, and that black disk, i will now call it that, if you think that thing is a void prove that it is



and a whole lot more of the same stuff, but i won't make this too long this time

Ajimu Najimi destroyed a Star, its effects were seen immediatly. Roshi blew the Moon, it didn't affect Earth's seas at all. Goku and Beerus were making shockwaves travel through space, even if shockwaves cannot travel through space due to the lack of matter.

nice, have you seen me denying any of those?
they would fall into the same category as this

in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied, i never denied it either

those are very explicit feats. this one notably lacks any sort of showing indicating any form of star destruction for you to even compare it with those

and really, this again

for the umpteenth time, i am NOT saying iy can't happen because it's unrealistic, i'm saying the logic behind your points is BAD, so your interpretation is wrong, you're assuming it happened with nothing to prove justify or back that up other than "it happened because i said it happened"

Should I continue? Every fictional feat breaks some physical rules. Yet, you're complaining to downplay OPM because "light did not disappear immediatly", when we're talking to an attack that travelled massively faster than light and whose recoil sent Garou and Saitama to Jupiter in seconds.

if you actually bothered to read anything you would have seen me responding to this exact point in the 2 paragraphs you skipped


they're in this exact post, read it again

Yeah, but the assumption that its cause is the SSSP^2 hold more basis if looking at the context that just photons were erased. And if it weren't the photons just erased, then the feat is illogical

we, once again, have no idea what the black sphere is, just because you think/said "my interpretation makes more sens" doesn't mean it does, i never said the photons were erased, i said, time and time again, we have no idea what the black sphere is, and you're just assuming what you think makes more sens

and it isn't because the feat is illogical, it's because your logic justifying your own interpreation is flawed, we have no idea what the feat even is to know if it's logical in the scope of the setting or not

Of course, because if you read the panels, you can easily see that it is implied that the black hole was created by the serious punch squared.

...at this point i feel like you're doing this on purpose, have you seen me denying that the black sphere was caused by the serious punch?
no?
then this is meaningless

Saying "well, the hole is because something else!" is not an argument.

the hole is because something else indeed lol, i said we have no idea what the black sphere is, you're just assumig that it implies the destrucition of multiple celestial bodies with no evidence and flawed logic,that's the whole point

Source: I made it up.

pick up science book and you will know the source, or just google it, it's called "stuff needs time to reach us"

We're talking about series who break the Speed of Light like nothing, in which characters can talk in space and a beam can travel faster than the speed of light.

never denied those, those are explicit feats

Yet, "light not disappearing" is supposed to be a problem?

it's only a problem when people assume the "disappeared lights "imply the destrucition of whatever was sourcing them with the only evidence being "we can't see them anymore" even when the fact that you can't see them doesn't mean in any way shape or form that they were destroyed

you're just assuming theywere, i'm telling to prove that statement, i've been doing the same the entire thread and no one did

what are we supposed, to have a timeskip of hundreds of years to see the consequences of the serious punch just so it pleases you? What you purpose makes no sense.

that implies we know the stars were destroyed, we don't, you assumed that was the case

. There are many times when feats like this, where the effects of the destruction on a far away side of the universe are seen instantly, yet it does not disregard those feats.

....same category as this, again

in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied, i never denied it either

or, in this case

we're given an explicit scene where star is blown up and the effects are shown immediately so we know they can ignore regular properties of light, we can therefore conclude that character A can destroy a star and have the after effects show up immediately disregarding how light works we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied

 

[Minos_the_Judge]

If it turns out that the theory of relativity works in OPM, and only Saitama is faster than light, then all the other characters would receive relativistic+ speed?

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Just close it, before it becomes a mess.

It already became a mess tbh

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

This thread basically turned in a "Is the 4-A feat legitemate or not?" argument

I think it should be closed and the people who have a problem with the 4-A rating should open a new CRT that address it

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Yeah removing the feat altogether isn’t even this thread’s topic.

@Passersby I recommend making a separate thread if you want to downgrade 4-A instead of continuing this here.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I think it should be closed and the people who have a problem with the 4-A rating should open a new CRT that address it

One mod disagreement isn't really enough to close the thread unless the OP wants to drop the revision.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

One mod disagreement isn't really enough to close the thread unless the OP wants to drop the revision.

Is the 3-B upgrade still being debated? If so, then it´s ok to leave it open

 

[CloverDragon03]

Yeah no, we're not scrapping the feat over something like "but physics tho" when fiction breaking physics is the norm, not the exception. As for the 3-B upgrade, I actually disagree with it. The calc doesn't reach 3-B because we're not assuming it's an omnidirectional explosion, so it doesn't matter that it reaches another galaxy (which is the very stipulation the 3-C end operates under). It's like suggesting that a mountain busting feat should automatically be 7-A just because it involves a mountain - even though most mountain-destroying feats are more like Low 7-B to 7-B

 

[Golden_Void]

I remember the thread we had a while ago. An exponential increase of less than 2 is enough to generate a 4x increase, and e is considered the natural mathematical baseline for exponentials literally anywhere, which is 2.71. If we went the limiter route, he would only be unmeasurably above 3-C even if he's stated to be "leaps and bounds" stronger until his next best feat. The former, is measurable evidence.

 

[Passersby]

"but physics tho"

i really have no idea how many times i have to quote the same arguments because a guy who didn't even bother to read nor understand the past conversation comes to shove the same arguments down my throat because they saw the word "physics" in my posts and didn't bother to read anything else

i never denied any of the supernatural feats happening in verse because we see them happening, i said your logic for scaling and your interpreation of this feat is faulty because it falls under minor scrutiny and it basically ignores physics to get a desired result that was never even proven or shown to be true, to say that again, i never denied the supernatural properties that exists in the verse just because they can't logically happen, a character's capabilities are informed by the scope of their settings, there's room for supernatural things, that I never denied, you're arguing with mid air, FTL travel and magic are both of these, they're allowable by the nature of what fiction is, for example in the garou vs flashy flash and platinium sperm fight we're given an explicit timeframe in which the events happened in so we know they're faster than litght, we can therefore conclude that Garou can go faster than light in an atmosphere without causing the relveant side effects that such a movement speed would imply, we don't know how he does it, but he does, that can never be denied, i never denied it either

a calculation for anything here should have predictive value, you need to build a hypothesis, find evidence , and quantify it,quantifying said evidence requires a frame of reference for it be meaningful, which is physics and, said frame of reference is applicable unless otherwise noted by the story, setting, or characters within, if the calculation and assumptions falls apart under minor scrutiny the base assumptions or conclusions provided are most likely flawed , which is the case here, you're just making up whatever interpretation to try and justify the event based on what you want them to be-(star destruction was never shown, you assumed there was any when there wasn't)that won't make it anymore valid,You can't prove it, you've got no justification for it and you're randomly deciding that it's true and working your way backwards from there to justify it, which isn't exactly how it works, that's circular and insane

you see this?
i wrote it for a reason, does that answer your question?
or do you have any logical issues you find in it that you wish refute?

then there is this

for the umpteenth time, i am NOT saying iy can't happen because it's unrealistic, i'm saying the logic behind your points is BAD, so your interpretation is wrong, you're assuming it happened with nothing to prove justify or back that up other than "it happened because i said it happened"

you assumed the stars were destroyed (with the only reason being the sphere is black?), and assumed they were being recovered(wihout proving the prior assetrion), you didn't prove either of that was happening were because it wasn't shown and you know you can't, it's, once again, pure guess work and assumptions on your part(because once again, black sphere isn't evidence of destroyed stars,because, for umpteenth time, that's not how light works), we are blissfully ignorant of what happened several hundred light years away, and that black disk, i will now call it that, if you think that thing is a void prove that it is, my assertion that it's a black disk has just as much evidence backing it as yours claiming it's a void

the argument won't become "it's not that way because physics says that can't happen" no matter how many times you think it is, is this strawmanning week because everyone straw mans my position to that exact phrase every single time, the logic behind the interpretation of this feat is as lacking as it can get,it doesn't even exist, this feat is just a fanon interpretation that holds no weight and isn't based on any logical or consistent frame work besides i said so and everyone who agrees with me also did so i'm right

but sure

@Passersby I recommend making a separate thread if you want to downgrade 4-A instead of continuing this here.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

you’re kinda convincing me a lil bit but yeah another thread addressing this is more appropriate.

 

[Bernkastelll]

the point of this thread was about the feat being 3-B or not, not if the feat is valid or not, its better to close this