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Chakra and the Soul (for Naruto at least)

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AppleLord said:
Only the ghost transformation jutsu makes the soul intangible via databook. Rinnegan users pull souls out so they can have the feat. Itachi’s spiritual weapons are intangible by statement. Chakra as a whole is not intangible. None chakra users can use, see, and interact with chakra in boruto. There's a human scientist experimenting chakra technology.
Click to expand...
The Spirit Transformation doesn't make Dan intangible, it allows Dan's soul to leave his body. The soul itself IS immaterial. That's it.

As for Naruto, he literally grabbed his soul/life-force/chakra and did a tug of war against Kurama and Nagato. Both of these acts have been noted as similar in nature by Bee.
He later did another tug of war for the Bijū's chakra against Obito, again using chakra arms.

Also, as pointed out in the OP, Madara's soul existing his body was referred to as chakra. There are many other examples of this in the OP
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The Spirit Transformation doesn't make Dan intangible, it allows Dan's soul to leave his body. The soul itself IS immaterial. That's it.

As for Naruto, he literally grabbed his soul/life-force/chakra and did a tug of war against Kurama and Nagato. Both of these acts have been noted as similar in nature by Bee.
He later did another tug of war for the Bijū's chakra against Obito, again using chakra arms.

Also, as pointed out in the OP, Madara's soul existing his body was referred to as chakra. There are many other examples of this in the OP
Click to expand...
Chakra as a whole is not intangible only the Jutsu used. None chakra users can use, see, and interact with chakra in boruto. There's a human scientist experimenting with chakra technology.

There only reason for this to happen is for Boruto’s retcon of everyone having chakra in the naruto verse. Kaguya was surely not the first one with chakra and they wouldn't go to a chakraless planet. Hagoromo’s past was either changed by black zetsu or he gave chakra to humans by teaching them how to fused spiritual energy and physical energy. That would be the only way for everyone in Naruto to have interaction with intangible chakra.
 
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The Ninja tech isn't even real chakra.....but whatever, I frankly don't care about Boruto in the slightest.

Again, my point was that the Spirit Transformation Jutsu LITERALLY allows your soul to exist your body. The soul is intangible because, well, that's how it works in Naruto I guess. The Jutsu doesn't make souls intangible, it already is. All the Jutsu does is allow Dan to weaponize his soul.
 
Rocker1189 said:
Everyone seems to have forgotten Tayuya's ability:


It is chakra made mostly out of spiritual energy allowing it to be intangible and also to directly attack chakra (this also shows the intagible nature of chakra:
Click to expand...
Huh, I did actually forget all about that. Very interesting.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
The Ninja tech isn't even real chakra.....but whatever, I frankly don't care about Boruto in the slightest.

Again, my point was that the Spirit Transformation Jutsu LITERALLY allows your soul to exist your body. The soul is intangible because, well, that's how it works in Naruto I guess. The Jutsu doesn't make souls intangible, it already is. All the Jutsu does is allow Dan to weaponize his soul.
Click to expand...
Boruto can place his own chakra into tech and make a lightsaber with chakra. Chakra is put in scrolls to use by people who can't use chakra. Chakra is studied by a non-chakra user. How is chakra fake in Boruto if it is the same chakra in Naruto? Is Boruto's father chakra fake?
 
Rocker1189 said:
Everyone seems to have forgotten Tayuya's ability:


It is chakra made mostly out of spiritual energy allowing it to be intangible and also to directly attack chakra (this also shows the intagible nature of chakra:
Click to expand...
It's funny how Genjutsu is a Yin attribute which is purely Spiritual, they're controlled by a genjutsu user, and Shikamaru uses his shadows, or Spiritual Energy, that has a Yin element, to control them
 
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But yeah, Naruto essentially stuck his Bijū chakra-clad arm inside Hinata's chest to remove Toneri's mind control orb thing. This supports the idea that Bijū chakra is selectively intangible in a sense.

Said mind control chakra orb is seemingly intangible as well, so yeah.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
@KingTempest

This in another interesting thing that Naruto can do using Bijū chakra.
Click to expand...
IIRC the novel specifically states that Toneri cloaks his arm with chakra and sticks it into her heart.
Naruto then does the opposite, by reaching his arm into her chest and removing the Jutsu from her heart.
He also saw some of her memories somehow... I'll need to check the novel again...

Edit: Toneri's case and Naruto's case.
 
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KingTempest said:
All I need now is Ninjutsu and Medical Ninjutsu then we have the main important stuff down
Click to expand...
I think the example of Tsunade being capable of healing Orochimaru's soul that you mentioned in the OP is more than enough in this instance.
Granted, it was made abundantly clear that only Tsunade can do that, but it still showcases that at the highest level chakra CAN heal the spirit.
 
i agree, but not with soul manip. its very literally techniques that allow people to do that in the first place, and even then, its either "i can take it away" or "i can move it from its original spot", so its very lowkey.
 
Also, their attacks would not do harm to the soul either

Their soul manipulation would just be cus they can manipulate their own soul to combine it with mental energy and from there get fire, earth, lightning, wind, water or any combination of these
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Also, their attacks would not do harm to the soul either

Their soul manipulation would just be cus they can manipulate their own soul to combine it with mental energy and from there get fire, earth, lightning, wind, water or any combination of these
Click to expand...
Beyond the ability to interact with intangible users shouldn't this give them intangibility via chakra?
 
TOAAPRESENCE1 said:
Also, their attacks would not do harm to the soul either

Their soul manipulation would just be cus they can manipulate their own soul to combine it with mental energy and from there get fire, earth, lightning, wind, water or any combination of these
Click to expand...
This is the most important thing.

People will misinterpret it as attacking other peoples' souls, when it's just their own souls that's being affected.

Basically combining Reiryoku (Bleach Soul Manipulation) with Ki (DBZ Chi Manipulation) and getting Chakra (I know it's much more complicated than that), but you're not actually harming the soul.
 
UchihaSlayer96 said:
I think the example of Tsunade being capable of healing Orochimaru's soul that you mentioned in the OP is more than enough in this instance.
Granted, it was made abundantly clear that only Tsunade can do that, but it still showcases that at the highest level chakra CAN heal the spirit.
Click to expand...
That does fall under the soul manipulation portion though.

The blog is mainly about chakra. It would be wise to get this one situated and or accepted before we add anything about the soul to the blog.
 
Oh my bad, I actually thought you were talking about the soul manipulation portion.

But now that you mentioned it, Tsunade definitely should be added to the list of affected characters.
She should probably get Limited Soul Manipulation for being able to heal the spirit.
 
KingTempest said:
Idea thought of from this thread.

Chakra and souls have been intertwined closely in the Narutoverse. It's come to the point where you would think chakra and souls are the same.
I have a few examples I'm thinking of in the verse, and a friend of mine suggested limited soul manipulation

What I Will Not Do​

I won't discuss Minato's connection with Truth-Seeking Orbs.
I request that this thread have nothing to do with this topic for reasons such as
  1. Against the Discussion Rules.
  2. IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 has already had a good explanation of it on this thread.
  3. Extremely played out.
    1. This has been going on for at least 2 years now since the last thread that was linked on the Discussion Rules.
    2. It's obvious that even the staff are sick and tired of arguing about it.
  4. The argument would be much stronger if a played out point isn't brought back up.

What We Know About Chakra​

Chakra is the combination of Physical Energy and Spiritual Energy.
Spirit = Soul. That should be easy enough.

Dead Demon Consuming Seal​

The Dead Demon Consuming Seal is a sealing jutsu created to seal and manipulate souls. Uses of the jutsu:
  • Sealed the soulsof Hashirama and Tobirama.
    • As that happened, the jutsu that was initiated by Hashirama was cancelled.
  • Sealed the soul of the hands of Orochimaru.
  • Sealed one half of Kurama into Naruto and into Minato.
One thing we notice about it though is that it was able to seal Kurama.
Things we know.
  • Kurama is a bijuu. The bijuu are purelychakra.
  • Kurama was stated to have gotten smallerafter his soul was split in half.
    • We visibly see the soul of Kurama being ripped out of him as that's happening.
    • A chakra monster gets smaller as his soul is ripped in half.
    • That explains why the horn and tails that are cut off of the Gyuki aren't regrown, since you can't regrow souls.
  • We see Minato's and Kurama's souls linked together.
    • It's stated that the souls of the user and the caster will battle forever.
      • Which explains why Minato was able to get Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, which is gained by taking the chakra of Kurama.

Hagoromo and Obito's Return​

Hagoromo was able to return to the place of the living because his chakra was reunited.
  • Hagoromo is clearly dead, but he says that he has wandered throughout the world as chakra(he flat out says that he's dead).
    • He says that Naruto summoned his soul, so it's confirmation that Hagoromo as of that point is a soul.
    • He is a soul that wanders as chakra, hmm...
      • His soul gave Naruto and Sasuke chakra, and was weakened after that.
      • When they sealed Kaguya, he got his chakra back.
  • He says that his son, Ashura, reincarnated into Naruto.
    • Reincarnation Definition
      • The belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.
      • Rebirth of the soul in a new body.
      • A new incarnation or embodiment, as of a person.
    • Hagoromo says he sees his chakra clinging onto Naruto.
Obito Uchiha was destroyed. We know that for certain, he was dead.
  • Obito states that Chakra is an energy that connects two worlds.
    • Obito is dead. What worlds could he mean? Maybe the otherworld (where dead people go) and the real world.
      • Hagoromo says that Obito and him will talk in the afterworld. I know this isn't really super important, but it's self explanatory.
  • Obito's soul reappears and possesses Kakashi.
    • As that happened, Kakashi got his Mangekyos and his Six Paths chakra.
    • When he left, what came with Obito left with Obito.

Asura Path and Orochimaru, then some Chakra Arm, Similarities​

The Asura Path rips out the soul of people to gain information. We know now that souls have something to do with knowledge.
We see that Orochimaru, after getting his chakra back from Kabuto, all of his intel was transferred into Orochimaru as well.
  • The soul is connected with intelligence.
  • Chakra is connected with intelligence.
Naruto uses his chakra hands to pull his soul back.
  • Naruto calls his soul his life force. We know about Uzumaki's life forces and such.
Everybody with Naruto's cloak was able to pull the bijuu back by pulling on Minato's chakra arms, which were indirectly pulling the bijuu out of Obito.

Orochimaru, after getting his hands sealed, was unable to use hand seals. It was at the point where he was injured just because of the loss of his hands' soul. He almost died as well.
He thought Tsunade's medical ninjutsu could heal his hands. Medical ninjutsu is flat out just applying chakra on the target (search Mystical Palm Technique), so if chakra can restore a missing part of the soul, that says a lot.

Susanoo​

Itachi's Susanoo can also hold the Sword of Totsuka, which has no physical form, also the Yata mirror, which has no physical form, since they are Spirit Weapons.

Spirit Transformation Technique and Edo Tensei​

Madara's Body: Soul starts to leave, but it goes right back into Madara's body.
Mei Terumi: Madara's chakra, which had started to separate from his body, is now clinging firmly to it.
We know these are souls because Dan flat out confirms that they're souls.
  • Dan: Souls ascending after being released from the Edo Tensei can be controlled with this Jutsu too.
It's weird, since literally everybody can see the souls.
  • Exhibit A.
  • Exhibit B.
  • Exhibit C (communicates with the soul).
  • Exhibit D.
  • Exhibit E.
Dan, after using the Spirit Transformation Technique, is able to give Tsunade chakra. That's very important as well since the burns inflicted on Tsunade were healed and her seal was fixed to the point where she can summon (with Sakura's help) a large ass amount of Katsuyu.
It says that it affects the soul of a victim as well (databook), more evidence.
Even Dan can't go through a pure chakra barrier when he turns into a ghost.

In Conclusion​

Chakra has god knows how much to do with the soul.
Non-Physical Interaction and Soul Manipulation should be given to those who manifest their chakra, like Jinchuriki, Rinnegan users, and Susanoo users.
Anybody else that gets it is decided on by those stated in the comments.

Results​

7 Agree: Rocker1189, M3X, TheFinalOrder, Shadyboi0, 00potato, Shadowbokunohero (Staff), The_Alxhemist,
2 Agree With NPI but Disagree with Soul Manipulation: UchihaSlayer96, Purgy,
0 Agree With Soul Manipulation but Disagree with NPI:
0 Disagree:
5 Inconclusive: BlastX, OneBleachHurricane, DarkDragonMedeus (Staff), Jvando (Staff), Damage3245 (Staff),
Click to expand...
KingTempest said:
Idea thought of from this thread.

Chakra and souls have been intertwined closely in the Narutoverse. It's come to the point where you would think chakra and souls are the same.
I have a few examples I'm thinking of in the verse, and a friend of mine suggested limited soul manipulation

What I Will Not Do​

I won't discuss Minato's connection with Truth-Seeking Orbs.
I request that this thread have nothing to do with this topic for reasons such as
  1. Against the Discussion Rules.
  2. IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 has already had a good explanation of it on this thread.
  3. Extremely played out.
    1. This has been going on for at least 2 years now since the last thread that was linked on the Discussion Rules.
    2. It's obvious that even the staff are sick and tired of arguing about it.
  4. The argument would be much stronger if a played out point isn't brought back up.

What We Know About Chakra​

Chakra is the combination of Physical Energy and Spiritual Energy.
Spirit = Soul. That should be easy enough.

Dead Demon Consuming Seal​

The Dead Demon Consuming Seal is a sealing jutsu created to seal and manipulate souls. Uses of the jutsu:
  • Sealed the soulsof Hashirama and Tobirama.
    • As that happened, the jutsu that was initiated by Hashirama was cancelled.
  • Sealed the soul of the hands of Orochimaru.
  • Sealed one half of Kurama into Naruto and into Minato.
One thing we notice about it though is that it was able to seal Kurama.
Things we know.
  • Kurama is a bijuu. The bijuu are purelychakra.
  • Kurama was stated to have gotten smallerafter his soul was split in half.
    • We visibly see the soul of Kurama being ripped out of him as that's happening.
    • A chakra monster gets smaller as his soul is ripped in half.
    • That explains why the horn and tails that are cut off of the Gyuki aren't regrown, since you can't regrow souls.
  • We see Minato's and Kurama's souls linked together.
    • It's stated that the souls of the user and the caster will battle forever.
      • Which explains why Minato was able to get Nine-Tails Chakra Mode, which is gained by taking the chakra of Kurama.

Hagoromo and Obito's Return​

Hagoromo was able to return to the place of the living because his chakra was reunited.
  • Hagoromo is clearly dead, but he says that he has wandered throughout the world as chakra(he flat out says that he's dead).
    • He says that Naruto summoned his soul, so it's confirmation that Hagoromo as of that point is a soul.
    • He is a soul that wanders as chakra, hmm...
      • His soul gave Naruto and Sasuke chakra, and was weakened after that.
      • When they sealed Kaguya, he got his chakra back.
  • He says that his son, Ashura, reincarnated into Naruto.
    • Reincarnation Definition
      • The belief that the soul, upon death of the body, comes back to earth in another body or form.
      • Rebirth of the soul in a new body.
      • A new incarnation or embodiment, as of a person.
    • Hagoromo says he sees his chakra clinging onto Naruto.
Obito Uchiha was destroyed. We know that for certain, he was dead.
  • Obito states that Chakra is an energy that connects two worlds.
    • Obito is dead. What worlds could he mean? Maybe the otherworld (where dead people go) and the real world.
      • Hagoromo says that Obito and him will talk in the afterworld. I know this isn't really super important, but it's self explanatory.
  • Obito's soul reappears and possesses Kakashi.
    • As that happened, Kakashi got his Mangekyos and his Six Paths chakra.
    • When he left, what came with Obito left with Obito.

Asura Path and Orochimaru, then some Chakra Arm, Similarities​

The Asura Path rips out the soul of people to gain information. We know now that souls have something to do with knowledge.
We see that Orochimaru, after getting his chakra back from Kabuto, all of his intel was transferred into Orochimaru as well.
  • The soul is connected with intelligence.
  • Chakra is connected with intelligence.
Naruto uses his chakra hands to pull his soul back.
  • Naruto calls his soul his life force. We know about Uzumaki's life forces and such.
Everybody with Naruto's cloak was able to pull the bijuu back by pulling on Minato's chakra arms, which were indirectly pulling the bijuu out of Obito.

Orochimaru, after getting his hands sealed, was unable to use hand seals. It was at the point where he was injured just because of the loss of his hands' soul. He almost died as well.
He thought Tsunade's medical ninjutsu could heal his hands. Medical ninjutsu is flat out just applying chakra on the target (search Mystical Palm Technique), so if chakra can restore a missing part of the soul, that says a lot.

Susanoo​

Itachi's Susanoo can also hold the Sword of Totsuka, which has no physical form, also the Yata mirror, which has no physical form, since they are Spirit Weapons.

Spirit Transformation Technique and Edo Tensei​

Madara's Body: Soul starts to leave, but it goes right back into Madara's body.
Mei Terumi: Madara's chakra, which had started to separate from his body, is now clinging firmly to it.
We know these are souls because Dan flat out confirms that they're souls.
  • Dan: Souls ascending after being released from the Edo Tensei can be controlled with this Jutsu too.
It's weird, since literally everybody can see the souls.
  • Exhibit A.
  • Exhibit B.
  • Exhibit C (communicates with the soul).
  • Exhibit D.
  • Exhibit E.
Dan, after using the Spirit Transformation Technique, is able to give Tsunade chakra. That's very important as well since the burns inflicted on Tsunade were healed and her seal was fixed to the point where she can summon (with Sakura's help) a large ass amount of Katsuyu.
It says that it affects the soul of a victim as well (databook), more evidence.
Even Dan can't go through a pure chakra barrier when he turns into a ghost.

In Conclusion​

Chakra has god knows how much to do with the soul.
Non-Physical Interaction and Soul Manipulation should be given to those who manifest their chakra, like Jinchuriki, Rinnegan users, and Susanoo users.
Anybody else that gets it is decided on by those stated in the comments.

Results​

7 Agree: Rocker1189, M3X, TheFinalOrder, Shadyboi0, 00potato, Shadowbokunohero (Staff), The_Alxhemist,
2 Agree With NPI but Disagree with Soul Manipulation: UchihaSlayer96, Purgy,
0 Agree With Soul Manipulation but Disagree with NPI:
0 Disagree:
5 Inconclusive: BlastX, OneBleachHurricane, DarkDragonMedeus (Staff), Jvando (Staff), Damage3245 (Staff),
Click to expand...
I agree. NPI for Naruto characters would naturally give them Soul manipulation since it comes from spiritual energy in the first place.
Also another interesting fact is that Sharingan users and Naruto can see the King of Hell
 
“Chakra is the combination of Physical Energy and Spiritual Energy.
Spirit = Soul. That should be easy enough”

If I recall mental energy is the proper word. I remember it being explained even the Japanese phrasing agrees with mental energy.

As for the thread I do agree Chakra has some form of connection with the soul but not sure about the soul manipulation being apart of every jutsu (if I understood correctly).
 
Last edited:
Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye said:
“Chakra is the combination of Physical Energy and Spiritual Energy.
Spirit = Soul. That should be easy enough”

If I recall mental energy is the proper word. I remember it being explained even the Japanese phrasing agrees with mental energy.

As for the thread I do agree Chakra has some form of connection with the soul but not sure about the soul manipulation being apart of every jutsu (if I understood correctly).
Click to expand...
Technically it's Mental and Spiritual working together.
 
KingTempest said:
Technically it's Mental and Spiritual working together.
Click to expand...
then u need to slightly adjust the blog
Chakra is the combination of Mental Energy and Physical Energy, collectively known as stamina.
to
Chakra is the combination of Mental and Spiritual Energy and Physical Energy, collectively known as stamina.
probably something like this lol
 
I’ve been watching the discussion so far and you can put me if for “agree” unless I’m given a strong reason not to. Though seeing how this thread has progressed, I doubt my mind will change
 
Nah I'm not advocating for resistance, all I care about is Soul Manip and/or Non-Physical Interaction for these people
KingTempest said:
Jinchuriki who can use Tailed Beast Mode since their limbs are chakra, and scaling off of Naruto, it should count since they're all just pure chakra.
  • Kaguya Otsutsuki
  • Ten Tails Jinchuriki Madara
  • Ten Tails Jinchuriki Obito
  • Naruto Uzumaki
  • Minato Namikaze
  • Killer Bee
  • Fū
  • Utakata
  • Han
  • Rōshi
  • Yagura Karatachi
  • Yugito Nii
  • Gaara
Susanoo Users scaling off of Itachi who can hold spiritual weapons that have no physical form
  • Itachi Uchiha
  • Sasuke Uchiha
  • Madara Uchiha
  • Double Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi
That's probably it
Click to expand...
UchihaSlayer96 said:
Tsunade definitely should be added to the list of affected characters.
She should probably get Limited Soul Manipulation for being able to heal the spirit.
Click to expand...
 
M3X said:
Now to absorb or null Ninjutsu you'd need to affect the soul too. Time for some spice matches
Click to expand...
Speaking of this, there's a possibility on how we can take it
KingTempest said:
We can take the chakra portion outside of verse two ways.

We can say that it takes both Energy Manipulation and Soul Manipulation.
We can take it as a package deal.

You can't destroy all of it unless you can harness all aspects of it.
For example: Having Fire Manipulation or Earth Manipulation doesn't mean you immediately counter Magma Manipulation, but having them together is a big difference.

An additional way of thinking.
If you can take an aspect of it out, you destroy the entire thing.

If you take out 1 O or H from H20, it destroys the entire chemical structure of it.
Click to expand...
 
You rn

IMG_20201123_214741.jpg
 
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