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I feel like I'm going to regret this, but **** it we ball.
Hi everybody, I'm KingTempest, and you're watching Disney Channel.
As we know, chakra is one of the posterboys of "Universal Energy System" throughout the history of powerscaling alongside Ki in DBZ.
But we have standards, and I'm here to prove 2 things following those standards.
#1, Chakra isn't a Universal Energy System
#2, Ninjutsu doesn't scale to Physicals
And yes I understand that scaling is affected by this, but I assure you, I will put in my assistance to help revise it. Not to where "I think they should be", but to just update the verse with more of what they need to catch up on the slack that I caused by cutting out most of the methods of scaling.
This has been coming for a very long time, but here it is.
Also, it's long.
Agree: Damage, Lephyr (leaning), Qawsedf (some can have it as UES, most don't)
Disagree:
Boruto > Naruto: DDM (idek)
Hi everybody, I'm KingTempest, and you're watching Disney Channel.
As we know, chakra is one of the posterboys of "Universal Energy System" throughout the history of powerscaling alongside Ki in DBZ.
But we have standards, and I'm here to prove 2 things following those standards.
#1, Chakra isn't a Universal Energy System
#2, Ninjutsu doesn't scale to Physicals
And yes I understand that scaling is affected by this, but I assure you, I will put in my assistance to help revise it. Not to where "I think they should be", but to just update the verse with more of what they need to catch up on the slack that I caused by cutting out most of the methods of scaling.
This has been coming for a very long time, but here it is.
Also, it's long.
The Standards of the UES Page for Reference
Imma keep this thread very short and sweet.
Here is the UES Page for those who never knew it existed.
There are 3 steps for getting something accepted as a Universal Energy System
Now
Here is the UES Page for those who never knew it existed.
There are 3 steps for getting something accepted as a Universal Energy System
- You follow the criteria of a Limited Energy System.
- Powers that scale to each other should
- Draw from the same source of power (or can convert between the different kinds of power)
- Use up a similar amount of power to each other.
- Alternatively, it would also suffice to show that the user can invest similar amounts of power into any given technique, should they want to.
- Powers that scale to each other should
- You follow the criteria of a Non-Physical Energy System.
- A character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques.
- They have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency. Hence an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their powers and abilities.
- You follow the criteria of a Universal Energy System.
- A character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Non-physical Energy System.
- They have to demonstrate that they can channel their power through their own bodies in a way that quantifiably enhances them or otherwise allows scaling of their supernatural powers through their physicals.
- Hence there should be evidence that an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their physical statistics.
- In the rare case that it is relevant for scaling the reverse should also be demonstrated: That a feat of non-empowered physical strength applies to the amount of supernatural power. Visual evidence of amplification is not considered necessary.
Now
What Standard Has Yet to Be Followed?
Starting from the top.
So the NPES portion is slightly weird in the case of Naruto. They don't have separate power systems. They have 1 power system that's split into several different ones.
Chakra, Senjutsu Chakra, Bijuu Chakra, Six Paths Chakra, I don't care Chakra, etc. Chakra.
So it's not like "Chakra and Magic but both draw from the same source so they need proof to scale to each other," no. It's just "chakra techniques scale to chakra techniques, senjutsu techniques scale to senjutsu techniques," etc.
Now here is the thread that got Naruto to be considered a UES. Ironically all the goons kept saying my name in it but that's that.
Now, a Limited Energy System.
The mechanics of chakra work in that characters are shown to output chakra between different techniques. The average technique would be as strong as another average technique, with some techniques working slightly superior.
The issue is this part, in the first portion of criteria.
And that thread didn't do so.
Yes, the thread showed that there could be instances where people scale to other people's techniques, and very few examples of where people scaled to their own techniques, but that isn't the point.
It needs to showcase that they can invest similar amounts of power into whatever technique they wish. Including their physicals.
Not "similar amounts of AP", similar amounts of energy.
We just had a Staff Thread about it, where it was shown that although it's not explicitly stated, the wording of the page shows that there needs to be proof they can amplify their physicals with the same amount of energy as their techniques.
Unfortunately, there are an army of people who will "tell me how chakra works".
So with all of my research, the one thing I can do for this verse is explain how chakra really works.
So here is the process of Ninjutsu.
So the NPES portion is slightly weird in the case of Naruto. They don't have separate power systems. They have 1 power system that's split into several different ones.
Chakra, Senjutsu Chakra, Bijuu Chakra, Six Paths Chakra, I don't care Chakra, etc. Chakra.
So it's not like "Chakra and Magic but both draw from the same source so they need proof to scale to each other," no. It's just "chakra techniques scale to chakra techniques, senjutsu techniques scale to senjutsu techniques," etc.
Now here is the thread that got Naruto to be considered a UES. Ironically all the goons kept saying my name in it but that's that.
Now, a Limited Energy System.
The mechanics of chakra work in that characters are shown to output chakra between different techniques. The average technique would be as strong as another average technique, with some techniques working slightly superior.
The issue is this part, in the first portion of criteria.
And that thread didn't do so.
Yes, the thread showed that there could be instances where people scale to other people's techniques, and very few examples of where people scaled to their own techniques, but that isn't the point.
It needs to showcase that they can invest similar amounts of power into whatever technique they wish. Including their physicals.
Not "similar amounts of AP", similar amounts of energy.
We just had a Staff Thread about it, where it was shown that although it's not explicitly stated, the wording of the page shows that there needs to be proof they can amplify their physicals with the same amount of energy as their techniques.
Unfortunately, there are an army of people who will "tell me how chakra works".
So with all of my research, the one thing I can do for this verse is explain how chakra really works.
So here is the process of Ninjutsu.
The Fundamental Mechanics of Ninjutsu
The First Databook's jutsu section is mostly translated on this page.
Jutsu in itself works by converting stamina (explained in the last thread) to chakra, then using hand seals to turn that into a jutsu.
These are fundamentals, so please remember this.
Ninjutsu specifically (the version with all the cool AOE feats) is utilizing that chakra to manifest effects in reality.
We follow Naruto Uzumaki, who has a trash grasp on the fundamentals, so the basics in the verse seem like the more complicated concepts, including Nature Transformation, which involves turning that chakra into an element.
Fire Release, Water Release, Etc.
Why am I saying this?
Because I need to explain fundamental concepts people don't know about.
Jutsu in itself works by converting stamina (explained in the last thread) to chakra, then using hand seals to turn that into a jutsu.
These are fundamentals, so please remember this.
Ninjutsu specifically (the version with all the cool AOE feats) is utilizing that chakra to manifest effects in reality.
We follow Naruto Uzumaki, who has a trash grasp on the fundamentals, so the basics in the verse seem like the more complicated concepts, including Nature Transformation, which involves turning that chakra into an element.
Fire Release, Water Release, Etc.
Why am I saying this?
Because I need to explain fundamental concepts people don't know about.
Get Itachi Out of Your Head
I know that this will be bombarded with "Kid Itachi can shove out large amounts of chakra, and he based it on his ninja training, so everyone can".
Get that out of your mind right now.
First things first is that chakra is invisible, but larger and denser amounts of chakra can be visible to the naked eye.
Same with Itachi. Itachi's technique showcase is a flex. Him being able to output that much chakra that it's visible is something that the manga directly shows isn't something casual.
And no, he didn't have the Sharingan at that moment. So he wouldn't have been able to see it unless it was a lot.
It is not what "the average character can do".
In the scans linked right before the "same with Itachi" part, we see that people outputting enough chakra to be visually perceived is... a lot.
Sakura, one of the best genin when it came to having a good mastery over her chakra, was surprised that Sasuke could put enough chakra into his hand to make it visible, yet from the phrasing of the Itachi novel, that shouldn't be a problem.
The showcase of Itachi is stated to be strong enough to even crush boulders, which is something that Pt. 2 Sakura level chakra control is hyped up to do from the damn hype text.
Guy is hyped up to be able to do this. To Obito, the man whose physicals were amplified by Hashirama cells, taught by Madara, and had the rinnegan, breaking a boulder was "impressive destructive power".
Naruto, after training with Jiraiya for years, was surprised that Asuma could throw a kunai into a boulder, much less shatter one.
Now I'm not coming here to say that Naruto characters are wall level, but voicing that they lack the capabilities for wide scale destruction from a young age.
This is a 5 year old Itachi doing a 15 year old Sakura level feat. It isn't realistic for it to take precedence over the showings of the capabilities of the genin from the manga.
How would I explain this?
The novel is secondary canon not written by Kishimoto. It's canon that it fits in the timeline and that everything from it is solid to use, but if the manga says something that contradicts it, the manga takes precedence unless the author themself come to correct what's truly accurate.
Get that out of your mind right now.
First things first is that chakra is invisible, but larger and denser amounts of chakra can be visible to the naked eye.
Same with Itachi. Itachi's technique showcase is a flex. Him being able to output that much chakra that it's visible is something that the manga directly shows isn't something casual.
And no, he didn't have the Sharingan at that moment. So he wouldn't have been able to see it unless it was a lot.
It is not what "the average character can do".
In the scans linked right before the "same with Itachi" part, we see that people outputting enough chakra to be visually perceived is... a lot.
Sakura, one of the best genin when it came to having a good mastery over her chakra, was surprised that Sasuke could put enough chakra into his hand to make it visible, yet from the phrasing of the Itachi novel, that shouldn't be a problem.
The showcase of Itachi is stated to be strong enough to even crush boulders, which is something that Pt. 2 Sakura level chakra control is hyped up to do from the damn hype text.
Guy is hyped up to be able to do this. To Obito, the man whose physicals were amplified by Hashirama cells, taught by Madara, and had the rinnegan, breaking a boulder was "impressive destructive power".
Naruto, after training with Jiraiya for years, was surprised that Asuma could throw a kunai into a boulder, much less shatter one.
Now I'm not coming here to say that Naruto characters are wall level, but voicing that they lack the capabilities for wide scale destruction from a young age.
This is a 5 year old Itachi doing a 15 year old Sakura level feat. It isn't realistic for it to take precedence over the showings of the capabilities of the genin from the manga.
How would I explain this?
The novel is secondary canon not written by Kishimoto. It's canon that it fits in the timeline and that everything from it is solid to use, but if the manga says something that contradicts it, the manga takes precedence unless the author themself come to correct what's truly accurate.
Ninjutsu Outputting Far More Chakra than Physicals
One thing we do know about Naruto is that jutsu output far more energy than what is utilized from physicals.
The first step in training is learning about tree climbing and water walking, which teaches you to build up and emit chakra for long periods of time.
In basic showings of jutsu for young children in the Uchiha Clan, a regular fireball jutsu requires you to build up massive amounts of chakra in your esophagus then breathe it out.
Now with Naruto's rasengan training, it showcases that you need to output streams of chakra for ninjutsu. Said streams of chakra build his signature jutsu, the rasengan. Him outputting streams of chakra for ninjutsu showcase that Rasengan's power isn't something that is easily replicable in the body.
Emitting chakra and holding it for prolonged periods of time allow you to build up chakra. Building up chakra allows you to produce ninjutsu.
We see during the tree climbing exercise that just focusing chakra to a specific part of your body is the most difficult skill for even a master ninja.
Yes, because "it's at their feet, hard place to focus chakra", but then that extends to kicks.
If Ninja could apparently output large amounts of chakra into their limbs casually, Sasuke wouldn't need to use a hand seal to focus the energy, if he can just easily punch and kick at that level. He wouldn't need to super focus to put chakra into a specific part of his body. Same with Sakura, needing to do a jutsu just to actually legitimately enhance her speed.
That's something not showcased on the current profiles, as Sasuke's punches and kicks in his first key scale to his fireballs.
Speaking of fireballs, Kakashi said that a genin shouldn't have had chakra developed to use that jutsu, yet he fought Sasuke.
If Sasuke can imbue chakra in his physicals, there should be nothing stopping him from doing that. Kakashi just took hits from him. He would know about his chakra capabilities from his physicals.
The first step in training is learning about tree climbing and water walking, which teaches you to build up and emit chakra for long periods of time.
In basic showings of jutsu for young children in the Uchiha Clan, a regular fireball jutsu requires you to build up massive amounts of chakra in your esophagus then breathe it out.
Now with Naruto's rasengan training, it showcases that you need to output streams of chakra for ninjutsu. Said streams of chakra build his signature jutsu, the rasengan. Him outputting streams of chakra for ninjutsu showcase that Rasengan's power isn't something that is easily replicable in the body.
Emitting chakra and holding it for prolonged periods of time allow you to build up chakra. Building up chakra allows you to produce ninjutsu.
We see during the tree climbing exercise that just focusing chakra to a specific part of your body is the most difficult skill for even a master ninja.
Yes, because "it's at their feet, hard place to focus chakra", but then that extends to kicks.
If Ninja could apparently output large amounts of chakra into their limbs casually, Sasuke wouldn't need to use a hand seal to focus the energy, if he can just easily punch and kick at that level. He wouldn't need to super focus to put chakra into a specific part of his body. Same with Sakura, needing to do a jutsu just to actually legitimately enhance her speed.
That's something not showcased on the current profiles, as Sasuke's punches and kicks in his first key scale to his fireballs.
Speaking of fireballs, Kakashi said that a genin shouldn't have had chakra developed to use that jutsu, yet he fought Sasuke.
If Sasuke can imbue chakra in his physicals, there should be nothing stopping him from doing that. Kakashi just took hits from him. He would know about his chakra capabilities from his physicals.
Change in Nature Increasing Effectiveness
Ninjutsu is very complicated.
A big thing about Ninjutsu scaling to physicals is that the effects of jutsu vary between their elements, making it superior than if you just blast out chakra.
Just like the chakra absorbing paper, how putting lightning makes it wrinkle, wind makes it tear, fire makes it burn, water makes it wet, and earth makes it crumble.
It can be assumed that each showcase inputs the same amount of chakra, but we can all agree that certain effects are superior to others.
This is showcased in everyday jutsu.
Inputting chakra in your body would easily make it more durable (based on how we treat chakra), yet just using earth chakra nature instead makes it much more durable than that, making them seem virtually invincible.
This is showed in kekkei genkai, how adding chakra would make you stronger of course, but using boil chakra nature instead makes it even stronger than that. Same with lava chakra nature.
Chakra would be able to enhance nerves and combat speed, but lightning chakra nature does it to a much further extent.
Bee could input lightning chakra nature into his pencils, turning them into weapons that vibrate, providing more power than wind style. The nature alone provides an amp that is superior than regular chakra.
Just adding more chakra to a rasengan would make it a bigger stronger rasengan, but adding wind chakra nature gives it a whole new mechanic, specifically stated to make the Rasen the "most powerful", implying the strongest rasengan (that Naruto can dish out).
Supported, as wind chakra nature is seen as the strongest type, unrivaled in battle power.
And yes, it's directly stated that adding Nature Transformation amps its power.
It could be argued "they just put more chakra", but that's false.
Naruto did a whole specific training to strengthen the wind chakra that he utilizes. Outputting more chakra was the second training, while just making his wind nature stronger was the first one.
What was his teaching to increase that? Not to output more chakra, but to make the wind nature sharper. The second training was to output more chakra.
It was directly stated to do the same as changing the shape of the chakra, which is to increase its power..
This shows that just changing the nature alone provides an increase in power, durability, speed, etc.
A big thing about Ninjutsu scaling to physicals is that the effects of jutsu vary between their elements, making it superior than if you just blast out chakra.
Just like the chakra absorbing paper, how putting lightning makes it wrinkle, wind makes it tear, fire makes it burn, water makes it wet, and earth makes it crumble.
It can be assumed that each showcase inputs the same amount of chakra, but we can all agree that certain effects are superior to others.
This is showcased in everyday jutsu.
Inputting chakra in your body would easily make it more durable (based on how we treat chakra), yet just using earth chakra nature instead makes it much more durable than that, making them seem virtually invincible.
This is showed in kekkei genkai, how adding chakra would make you stronger of course, but using boil chakra nature instead makes it even stronger than that. Same with lava chakra nature.
Chakra would be able to enhance nerves and combat speed, but lightning chakra nature does it to a much further extent.
Bee could input lightning chakra nature into his pencils, turning them into weapons that vibrate, providing more power than wind style. The nature alone provides an amp that is superior than regular chakra.
Just adding more chakra to a rasengan would make it a bigger stronger rasengan, but adding wind chakra nature gives it a whole new mechanic, specifically stated to make the Rasen the "most powerful", implying the strongest rasengan (that Naruto can dish out).
Supported, as wind chakra nature is seen as the strongest type, unrivaled in battle power.
And yes, it's directly stated that adding Nature Transformation amps its power.
It could be argued "they just put more chakra", but that's false.
Naruto did a whole specific training to strengthen the wind chakra that he utilizes. Outputting more chakra was the second training, while just making his wind nature stronger was the first one.
What was his teaching to increase that? Not to output more chakra, but to make the wind nature sharper. The second training was to output more chakra.
It was directly stated to do the same as changing the shape of the chakra, which is to increase its power..
This shows that just changing the nature alone provides an increase in power, durability, speed, etc.
Change in Shape Increasing Effectiveness
Like I said directly above, changing the nature of chakra was directly stated to do the same as changing the shape of the chakra, which is to increase its power.
Changing the form of chakra increases its power. Changing the form on top of changing the nature increases the strength exponentially.
Kakashi utilizes it in chidori, to specifically change the form to affect the power.
Jiraiya and all Rasengan users utilize it in Rasengan, when the power of the technique is much more powerful just by utilizing shape transformation.
These was the fundamentals for the bijuudama. which is how the Rasengan got its title.
This is seen in many different jutsu.
Changing the form of chakra increases its power. Changing the form on top of changing the nature increases the strength exponentially.
Kakashi utilizes it in chidori, to specifically change the form to affect the power.
Jiraiya and all Rasengan users utilize it in Rasengan, when the power of the technique is much more powerful just by utilizing shape transformation.
These was the fundamentals for the bijuudama. which is how the Rasengan got its title.
This is seen in many different jutsu.
Special Techniques Don't Exist
I'M JOKING.
But the blog notes that there's a lot of examples of jutsu that don't scale to physicals.
But the blog notes that there's a lot of examples of jutsu that don't scale to physicals.
But It Comes From Their Bodies, They Should Scale To It Since They Can Produce It
- Naruto training hurt himself with the rasengan as he was training it, burning his hand.
- Deidara got injured by a piece of C1. If closer it would've harmed him more. He was thankful that he kept the chakra level to C1, implying anything above that would've hurt him to a far larger extent.
- This is the weakest technique of Deidara, the explosive force being toned down to the maximum extent. That means that it's the minimum yield his C1 can produce, yet it's hurting him to that extent.
- The Third Raikage stabbed himself through his shield with his technique.
- Naruto got hurt by his rasengan being weaponized against him.
- Bee and Naruto clashed with themselves and got hurt.
- During the warring states period, Madara killed many ninja with their own ninjutsu by shooting it back at them.
- Nagato shortened his life doing a large scale Shinra Tensei.
- Nagato hurt himself doing a Chibaku Tensei
- Naruto and Sasuke hurt themselves when their jutsu combined.
Why is this tied to All Ninjutsu?
Ninjutsu in itself is based on either shape transformation or nature transformation. If it's not one of those, it's not ninjutsu.
Kakashi says that to create a ninjutsu, it needs shape transformation and/or nature transformation. Most jutsu fall into one or the other.
We see that changing the nature or shape of it changes the power and strength of the chakra in itself.
We also see that ninja don't always invest large amounts of chakra into their bodies.
This brings an issue that my conclusion will sum up.
Kakashi says that to create a ninjutsu, it needs shape transformation and/or nature transformation. Most jutsu fall into one or the other.
We see that changing the nature or shape of it changes the power and strength of the chakra in itself.
We also see that ninja don't always invest large amounts of chakra into their bodies.
This brings an issue that my conclusion will sum up.
Conclusion
Chakra is used to enhance physicals. That is not an argument I want to dwell on nor is it a hill I want to die on.
But chakra is not used to enhance physicals to the level of ninjutsu.
Ninjutsu utilizes far more chakra than what they use to amp their physicals, and that chakra is amplified by external factors such as natures and shapes which make it stronger than what their chakra alone allow them to produce, creating ninjutsu.
It's like wrapping yourself with batteries then scaling to a microwave.
Even car batteries allow a car to produce much more energy than what the car is being given to fuel. It should work here too.
Ninja are superhuman in nature. Kid Naruto could leap over high fences and Sasuke could blitz grown men. They can scale to ninjutsu through feats, like how Sasuke jumped clean through Yamato's wood.
But they can't scale to ninjutsu because "they both use chakra".
Chakra needs to be moved from the Universal Energy System setting to the Limited Energy System.
Maybe Non-Physical Energy System.
Ninjutsu can scale to each other. They shouldn't scale to the users.
But chakra is not used to enhance physicals to the level of ninjutsu.
Ninjutsu utilizes far more chakra than what they use to amp their physicals, and that chakra is amplified by external factors such as natures and shapes which make it stronger than what their chakra alone allow them to produce, creating ninjutsu.
It's like wrapping yourself with batteries then scaling to a microwave.
Even car batteries allow a car to produce much more energy than what the car is being given to fuel. It should work here too.
Ninja are superhuman in nature. Kid Naruto could leap over high fences and Sasuke could blitz grown men. They can scale to ninjutsu through feats, like how Sasuke jumped clean through Yamato's wood.
But they can't scale to ninjutsu because "they both use chakra".
Chakra needs to be moved from the Universal Energy System setting to the Limited Energy System.
Maybe Non-Physical Energy System.
Ninjutsu can scale to each other. They shouldn't scale to the users.
Agree: Damage, Lephyr (leaning), Qawsedf (some can have it as UES, most don't)
Disagree:
Boruto > Naruto: DDM (idek)
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like blades etc + we see more examples naruto over power pain all mighty push / slaps away tailed beast bomb ,tanks six path sasuke chidori to his face 
literally takes 0 damage from kawaki Energy beam in base
