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I don’t see why you need soul absorption to absorb jutsu.
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Chakra and the Soul (for Naruto at least)
- Thread starter KingTempest
- Start date
- Status
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- Thread starter
- #202
Ninjutsu has chakra, which we found out in this thread, consists of the soul.
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The jutsu itself is not soul based
What is soul base is the combination of that and mental energy
The result of these (fire, earth, wind, Lightning and water or combination of these) are just elements
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- Thread starter
- #204
That's just Nature manipulation.
The jutsu is chakra based, which is .5 the soul.
Spiritual/Mental energy (they're combined) mixed with Physical energy gets you chakra, then you can use that same chakra for ninjutsu.
I'm not even using headcanon, I'm using what the manga gave us.
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Spirit and Soul aren’t necessarily the same thing.
And that isn’t Nature Manipulation (at least not on this wiki). It’s just energy manipulation to give it form.
Edit -
精神
1. mind; spirit; soul; heart; ethos
This is the definition of seishin
And that isn’t Nature Manipulation (at least not on this wiki). It’s just energy manipulation to give it form.
Edit -
精神
1. mind; spirit; soul; heart; ethos
This is the definition of seishin
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- Thread starter
- #206
Nature manipulation is an inverse Naruto term used to describe giving elemental qualities to chakra based techniques.
You're not wrong, spirit and soul aren't necessarily the same thing. In the OP though, I explained how the soul is closely tied w/ chakra, regardless if soul ≠ spirit.
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And I agreed there is a connection, I can’t deny that. I’m more so talking about the specifics here.
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- #208
Apologies for the misconception.
But yeah you're right, soul ≠ spirit.
But yeah you're right, soul ≠ spirit.
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I was contacted earlier; I will be honest I am mostly neutral. Asides the special cases for those who have the Soul Manipulation like Rinnegan users and users already with the abilities on their pages, I think Nonphysical-Interaction is more accurate.
Soul Manipulation, definitely, I think need more solid evidence.
Soul Manipulation, definitely, I think need more solid evidence.
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I appreciate the input, I added you as inconclusive.
@EverybodyElseStillWatching Most of what I'm seeing is that the Non-Physical Interaction is good, but the Soul Manipulation is a little ehh.
@EverybodyElseStillWatching Most of what I'm seeing is that the Non-Physical Interaction is good, but the Soul Manipulation is a little ehh.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I'm fine with both of them, but I can see why it's very "eh...." for the Soul Manip.
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- #212
Exactly.
DDM basically summed it up.
It's all on the balance of a maybe and maybe not, and most of the members are leaning on both sides.
It's like, there's definitely enough evidence, but it could still possibly be a stretch
DDM basically summed it up.
This is basically the whole thread right now.
It's all on the balance of a maybe and maybe not, and most of the members are leaning on both sides.
It's like, there's definitely enough evidence, but it could still possibly be a stretch
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So how would regenerating from pure chakra be treated as? I just want this question answered.
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If Chakra= Soul, so Low-Godly? She had nothing left but only her chakra.
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What kaguya did was not regen but transformation
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This might worth considering but the fact that it is currently on her profile doesn't that mean that it was accepted in a CRT before? It says likely though.
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The reason why it was put like that was mentioned in this thread actually
Which basically was
1.Give her mid high Regen for surviving ETSB
Or
2.Give her tier 4-B dura for servicing ETSB
So in order to not give her 4B they just gave her that regen
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- Thread starter
- #218
That's stupid for every reason possible.
1. She's immune to the ETSB's matter hax.
2. She could've just left using a portal (which she frequently uses).
3. The TSB has matter hax, so why does it have AP?
4. She could've stopped it's expansion whenever team 7 was dead.
5. The ETSB has limits (since there's limits on the shinobi's and her chakra), so nothing states that it would've actually HIT her.
6. She could've kept flying back.
7. She could've absorbed it when it got big enough.
8. She could've done anything.
But the one thing that's assumed is that she tanks it, or even gets hit. Really?
1. She's immune to the ETSB's matter hax.
2. She could've just left using a portal (which she frequently uses).
3. The TSB has matter hax, so why does it have AP?
4. She could've stopped it's expansion whenever team 7 was dead.
5. The ETSB has limits (since there's limits on the shinobi's and her chakra), so nothing states that it would've actually HIT her.
6. She could've kept flying back.
7. She could've absorbed it when it got big enough.
8. She could've done anything.
But the one thing that's assumed is that she tanks it, or even gets hit. Really?
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Matter hax can still have AP.
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- Thread starter
- #220
Aren't TSB stated to be ≥ Jinton, which ignores dura?
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Jinton is Matter hax.
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- #222
So Jinton is Matter Hax that defies dura...
Truth Seeking Ball > Jinton
TSB is Jinton with AP...
How does that work?
Truth Seeking Ball > Jinton
TSB is Jinton with AP...
How does that work?
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I believe that the comparison between the two was just in reference to the amount of nature's that are combined to create it. I think TSB should count as EE.
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- #224
This is my fault, we're off topic.
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I think there's more evidence for NPI than Soul Manipulation here.
I definitely don't think you need Soul Manipulating in order to affect jutsu or chakra.
I definitely don't think you need Soul Manipulating in order to affect jutsu or chakra.
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Sorry, I'm a bit busy and I'm on mobile, so I'll keep this brief.
I'd like to finally share my personal conclusions about this topic. Soooooo here goes!
I think Tempest did a great job showcasing and proving the intrinsic relationship between chakra and souls in the Narutoverse. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that souls and chakra being one and the same is not only possible, but extremely likely at this point IMHO.
We've also managed to prove why these souls/pure chakra entities are intangible, via Dan's ability description and feats.
However, there is a clear distinction between pure souls/pure chakra entities, and Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu is the combination of spiritual/mental energy (I.e: this "pure" chakra/spirit we've been talking about) and physical energy. Ninjutsu is a weaponized variant of pure chakra that's mixed in and diluted with physical energy in order to give it physical tangible form.
Does that mean it's no longer partially spiritual? No, of course not, but it's also clearly completely physical energy that can interact with and affect the material world. Thus, we probably cannot award NPI and Soul Manipulation to every single Jutsu and chakra user in existence because they're only capable of utilizing this diluted, physical version of chakra in very specific ways (Ninjutsu, genjutsu, etc).
With all that in mind, there are notable exceptions as this thread has made abundantly clear. Some characters have shown the ability to interact directly with spirits/souls/pure chakra entities and with intangible spiritual constructs (Itachi's spirit weapons).
Those characters being:
- Susano'o users: scaling to Itachi, as all Susano'o are fundamentally the same.
- Bijū chakra users via their chakra manifestations: Scaling to Naruto who not only can grab on to his own soul/life-force on multiple occasions (against Nagato and Kurama), but can even grab onto other Bijū's life-force/pure chakra form against Obito.
Additionally, it seems that Bijū chakra can indeed be selectively intangible as well, given Naruto's showings in the Last and the nature of Bijū in general. (Again only in chakra forms/chakra manifestations)
- Rinnegan users: Via the Human Path, pretty self explanatory.
- Tsunade's Healing in particular, for it can heal and affect the soul.
- Barrier and Sealing Ninjutsu, as it can block spirits and affect them in a variety of ways as well.
All of the aforementioned examples should be awarded Non-Physical Interaction, and in Tsunade's case Limited Soul Manipulation as well.
As for the relationship between chakra and souls, I think it's very important to explain that thoroughly in a blog and post it on the verse page; however, I don't think it should award Soul Manipulation imo.
That's about it really, hope this helped.
I'd like to finally share my personal conclusions about this topic. Soooooo here goes!
I think Tempest did a great job showcasing and proving the intrinsic relationship between chakra and souls in the Narutoverse. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that souls and chakra being one and the same is not only possible, but extremely likely at this point IMHO.
We've also managed to prove why these souls/pure chakra entities are intangible, via Dan's ability description and feats.
However, there is a clear distinction between pure souls/pure chakra entities, and Ninjutsu. Ninjutsu is the combination of spiritual/mental energy (I.e: this "pure" chakra/spirit we've been talking about) and physical energy. Ninjutsu is a weaponized variant of pure chakra that's mixed in and diluted with physical energy in order to give it physical tangible form.
Does that mean it's no longer partially spiritual? No, of course not, but it's also clearly completely physical energy that can interact with and affect the material world. Thus, we probably cannot award NPI and Soul Manipulation to every single Jutsu and chakra user in existence because they're only capable of utilizing this diluted, physical version of chakra in very specific ways (Ninjutsu, genjutsu, etc).
With all that in mind, there are notable exceptions as this thread has made abundantly clear. Some characters have shown the ability to interact directly with spirits/souls/pure chakra entities and with intangible spiritual constructs (Itachi's spirit weapons).
Those characters being:
- Susano'o users: scaling to Itachi, as all Susano'o are fundamentally the same.
- Bijū chakra users via their chakra manifestations: Scaling to Naruto who not only can grab on to his own soul/life-force on multiple occasions (against Nagato and Kurama), but can even grab onto other Bijū's life-force/pure chakra form against Obito.
Additionally, it seems that Bijū chakra can indeed be selectively intangible as well, given Naruto's showings in the Last and the nature of Bijū in general. (Again only in chakra forms/chakra manifestations)
- Rinnegan users: Via the Human Path, pretty self explanatory.
- Tsunade's Healing in particular, for it can heal and affect the soul.
- Barrier and Sealing Ninjutsu, as it can block spirits and affect them in a variety of ways as well.
All of the aforementioned examples should be awarded Non-Physical Interaction, and in Tsunade's case Limited Soul Manipulation as well.
As for the relationship between chakra and souls, I think it's very important to explain that thoroughly in a blog and post it on the verse page; however, I don't think it should award Soul Manipulation imo.
That's about it really, hope this helped.
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Thats correct. The Ninshu that was thought by Hagoromo was purely spiritual until humans corrupted it by adding physical energy to it creating ninjutsu. So you dont need soul manip in orfer to affect jutsu.
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id like to just add that you don't need to have soul manipulation to nullify Ninjutsu based attacks, while these Jutsu's are the consequence of chakra(spiritual and Physical) they are still very much physical and can be affected by physical things, such as fire style jutsu being countered by natural bodies of water.
I think the distinction needs to be made between nullifying Chakra and nullifying Ninjutsu.
I think the distinction needs to be made between nullifying Chakra and nullifying Ninjutsu.
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Quite right.
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Another interesting fact. Some naruto characters don’t need physical energy to create chakra
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Who do you have in mind?
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- Thread starter
- #232
Just wanted to add that the samurai practiced Ninshu...
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Characters who can still fight as a Spirit/Soul.
Proven in Boruto; Momoshiki without a physical body was still able to caste two techniques. Time stop and seeing the future.
it was explained in Boruto fortunately that Chakra is created from the physical energy that is created from thre cells in everyone’s body combined with spiritual energy.
We can list all of the characters that are able to use skills as souls.
Momoshiki
Hag
Hamura
Obito
Dan
Madara
actually all Otsutsuki probably can since Karma can be placed even when their bodies have been destroyed
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but the thing is we are not assuming since hagoromo clearly saying his , ashura and indra soul is same as chakra
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- #235
Not gonna lie, they use it interchangeably
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They do, which is annoying
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- #237
Last point especially
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naruto with new mode should also get Limited Soul Manipulation since life-force=soul
probably add them aswell
indra(can use reincarnation jutsu )
ashura (can use reincarnation jutsu )
kushina(used Adamantine Sealing Chains as chakra/soul in naruto mind )
minato(used/fix Eight Trigrams Sealing Style as chakra/soul)
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Lol.
DBS Moro arc: Ki is realated to someone's Soul.
This thread: Chakra is related to someone's Soul.
Boruto: Naruto gets a Nerfed and limited version of Moro's Life-force Absorption.
DBS manga chapter 66: Goku creates a Susano.
DB and Naruto copying each other......
DBS Moro arc: Ki is realated to someone's Soul.
This thread: Chakra is related to someone's Soul.
Boruto: Naruto gets a Nerfed and limited version of Moro's Life-force Absorption.
DBS manga chapter 66: Goku creates a Susano.
DB and Naruto copying each other......
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