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The only Edo Tensei who are explicitly weakened are Tobirama, Hashirama and Madara. We're not given any reason to suspect any other Edo Tensei has been weakened significantly.
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Captain Juubito: Civil War (+Top tiers scaling stuff)
- Thread starter UchihaSlayer96
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The only Edo Tensei who are explicitly weakened are Tobirama, Hashirama and Madara. We're not given any reason to suspect any other Edo Tensei has been weakened significantly.
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So are you in favor of KOMIE's notion that Alive EMS Madara's PS should be Low 6-B for being strong than Edo Madara's PS (High 6-C+)?
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No, I think that is too big of a leap.
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That's why I asked if Edo Tensei was stated to weaken Jutsu and Dojutsu abilities instead of just affecting natural physical stats.
If it just affects physical stats then Jutsu and Dojutsu abilities have the same potency whether Alive or as an Edo Tensei
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- Thread starter
- #125
Anyway, I'm not really a big fan of upscaling myself, but I also don't necessarily believe Jutsu are weakened by Edo Tensei in all honesty.
Btw, what do you think of the scaling ideas myself and KOMIE proposed for the top tiers earlier?
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- #126
Just a BUMP in the road!
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Bump
What else needs to be done here
What else needs to be done here
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- #128
We're trying to iron out the Top tiers' scaling now that they don't scale to the Juubi/Juubito.
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What's the issue for scaling to the Perfect Susanoo?
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- #130
The issue is that it would scale to both Base Hashirama's and Sage Hashirama's Mokuton, which makes no sense. Scaling the base Mokuton to Kurama instead seems more consistent to me, and would allow us to not ignore the Perfect Susano'o's feats due to inconsistencies.
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Agree
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- #132
Okay, so everyone is okay with Base Hashirama scaling to Kurama and the Perfect Susano'o downscaling from SM Hashirama?
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Why does perfect Susanoo downscale?
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- #134
It matched a Sage Mode Wood Human/Golem, which we know isn't really SM Hashi's strongest technique in SM. The Susano'o armor also protected Kurama from hundreds of blows from the Shinsu Senju before being partially chipped away.
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Fair enough
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- #136
Alright, do we need to wait for more input, or can this be implemented and the thread closed?
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Please implement this Revision as soon as possible, we already have too many Naruto Revisions stuck as is.
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- #138
Desperation bump!
PrinceofPein
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I think the susanoo that madara used to match this was the same susanoo he created 25 of to fight the kages, his perfect susanoo is somewhat different.
Dont know how to post scans but let me get the chapter pages
Chapter 625 pg 16,
In fact I dont think madara got his perfect susanoo till after izuna died which was when the village was created and every fight after that showed hashirama using the shinsu senju not the wood golem against his susanoo, I think he should scale
Just my two cents tho
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PrinceofPein
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Oh my bad then, thought you were talking about alive keys didnt know its edoNo, it was the Perfect Susano'o.
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Base Hashirama scaling to Kurama how exactly? Kurama was able to destroy his wood constructs, physically and with the Biju Bomb, and it's not like we've ever seen Hashirama tanking an attack from Kurama.
Also are we therefore saying that Madara is ten times stronger than Kurama?
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IIRC 100% Kurama is High 6-C (260 Gigatons) while Madara's PS is High 6-C+ (991 Gigatons)
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- #144
First of all, I'm obviously talking about his strongest Mokuton, not his base stats or even his weaker Mokuton.
Second of all, I've linked a lot of scans for this in the final section of the OP.
- His Wood Golem has a DB statement that says its power is comparable to Kurama. It was able to catch its TBB, that had previously shattered his Wood Dragon, which in turn was able to restrain Kurama. The head of his Wood Golem also withstood Kurama's TBB explosion (he only used the head because he could hide inside it, since he's usually exposed outside of it).
He has the feats for it, so yes. Though he wouldn't be exactly ten times stronger, his Susano'o would downscale from Hashirama who's ten times stronger.
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Indeed and the High 6+ feat was really casual.
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- #146
Bump
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Repeating this.
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- #148
Bump!
C'mon guys, let's try and wrap this up please.
@Damage3245 do you still have any reservations/issues/questions or can this be applied and closed?
C'mon guys, let's try and wrap this up please.
@Damage3245 do you still have any reservations/issues/questions or can this be applied and closed?
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Repeating.
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I thought this was already supposed to be going ahead?
Is there a sandbox with the exact changes that will be made?
Is there a sandbox with the exact changes that will be made?
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- #151
Oh, I didn't realize you had already given it the okay, but alrighty then!
I thought we were just going to change the ratings for now, and work on improving the justifications later on M3X's thread, but screw it. I'll work on the 3 most important top tiers right now and get it over with.
Anyway, sorry for the late reply. I was very busy irl today, so I just got around to finishing these.
Naruto Uzumaki (Part II: War Arc):
Attack Potency: Island level (Far stronger than his Kyūbi Chakra Mode, as he now has far more access to Kurama's unrestricted Chakra), Large Island level to Small Country level with Kurama Avatar (Without being at full power, his own Bijū Bomb matched the combined Bijū Bombs of five other Bijū’s. His Bijū Bomb contributed a majority of the energy used to do this much damage) | Large Island level with Bijū Sage Mode (He is ten times stronger than before), Small Country level to Country level with Kurama Avatar
Striking Strength: Island Class (Far stronger than his Kyūbi Chakra Mode, and managed to send five incoming Bijū Bombs flying ), Large Island Class with Kurama Avatar (Easily knocked down 5 Bijū simultaneously, and effortlessly manhandled them ) | Large Island Class with Bijū Sage Mode, Small Country level with Kurama Avatar (He is ten times stronger than before)
Durability: Island level (Far more durable than his Kyūbi Chakra Mode), Country level with Kurama Avatar (Withstood a blow from the First Form Jūbi. Even while low on chakra, he withstood and redirected an attack from the Jūbi, though he lost the edge of his tails) | Large Island Class with Bijū Sage Mode, Large Country level with Kurama Avatar (He is ten times more durable than before)
Key: Bijū Mode | Bijū Sage Mode
Madara Uchiha:
Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain level (Is capable of matching Hashirama Senju, who can harm and defeat him. He was also stronger than he was as an Edo Tensei), higher with Susano'o, Large Island level to Small Country level with Kyūbi, Small Country level with the Perfect Susano'o (It should be just as strong, if not stronger than, it was when Madara was an Edo Tensei) , higher with Majestic Attire:Susano'o (It can destroy the arms of Sage Mode Hashirama's Shinsu Senju with its Evil Disturbance Waltz) | At least Large Mountain level (Capable of fighting against Edo Hashirama), higher with Susano'o and Wood Release, Large Island level+ with Tengai Shinsei, Small Country level with the Perfect Susano'o (Destroyed a huge part of the battlefield, as well as lifting the top of two mountains quite casually. It was capable of matching Sage Hashirama's Wood Golem for an extended period of time)Striking Strength: At least Large Mountain Class (Constantly traded blows with Hashirama for most of his life), higher with Susano'o, Large Island level+ with the Perfect Susano'o and Kyūbi, Small Country level with Majestic Attire: Susano'o | At least Large Mountain Class (Comparable to Edo Hashirama, and can trade blows with him), higher with Susano'o (Casually killed a Wood Clone of Hashirama), Small Country Class with the Perfect Susano'o (Could trade blows with Sage Hashirama's Wood Golem)
Durability: At least Large Mountain level (Endured many lengthy battles against Hashirama. He is more durable than his Edo Tensei self), higher with Susano'o, Small Country level with the Perfect Susano'o (His Armored Susano'o withstood one of Kurama's Bijū Bombs without any damage, and his Perfect Susano'o is even more durable. The Majestic Attire withstood hundreds of attacks from Sage Mode Hashirama's Shinsu Senju before having its outer armor partially chipped away) | At least Large Mountain level (Withstood a direct punch from the Fourth Raikage without any visible damage. Withstood Sage Mode Naruto's Odama Rasenshuriken, with Hashirama noting that it did not take him down), higher with Susano'o, Small Country level with the Perfect Susano'o
Key: Alive | Edo Tensei
Hashirama Senju
Attack Potency: At least Large Mountain level physically (Much stronger than Tobirama Senju. As an Edo Tensei, he stated that he had more chakra than both Naruto and 50% Kurama combined. He is the only one who was capable of matching and defeating Madara Uchiha), higher with Wood Release, Large Island level with Wood Dragon and Golem (His Wood Dragon is capable of restraining full power Kurama, and his Wood Golem is comparable to Prime Kurama) | Island level physically (He is 10x more powerful than before), Small Country level with his strongest Wood Release (His Jutsu are ten times more powerful than before. His Sage Mode Wood Golem was able to contend with Madara's Perfect Susano'o when he was weaker as an Edo Tensei)Striking Strength: At least Large Mountain Class physically (Traded blows with Madara numerous times throughout their youth, with Madara admitting that Hashirama was stronger than him), Large Island Class with his strongest Wood Release (His Wood Golem is comparable to Kurama, and can easily catch its Bijū Bomb, which had previously shattered his Wood Dragon) | Island Class physically, Small Country Class with Wood Release (He is ten times more powerful than before)
Durability: At least Large Mountain level physically (Comparable to Madara, and is capable of enduring a full day of fighting against him, usually coming out on top), Large Island level with his strongest Wood Release (His Wood Golemn is comparable to Kurama, and his Mokuton: Hōbi no Jutsu was capable of enduring Kurama's Bijū Bomb exploding at very close proximity), higher with Quintuple Rashōmon (Was capable of changing the trajectory of the Majestic Attire: Susano'o's Evil Disturbance Waltz without getting completely destroyed) | Island level physically, Small Country level with Wood Release
Key: Base | Sage Mode
XSOULOFCINDERX
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If only we could've fixed Obito himself as easily....
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- #153
Obito's rating is not going to change due to this thread, but I am working on improving his justifications significantly.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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I meant his Base Forms, not Juubito.
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Oh, those will be handled in the other revision thread when we get our calc situation sorted.
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I agree with the Konoha Accords, though I'm neutral on the Chakra Arms.
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Okay, those proposals seem fine to me.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Bump.
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- #159
I've edited Hashirama's profile. I'll now wait for someone to unlock Naruto and Madara's profiles, then I'll make the edits and this thread can finally be closed.
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I've made the changes. This can finally be closed.
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