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Bleach Revisions: Thousand Year Blood War
- Thread starter Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff
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Proof is the Manga and Light Novels.
Neither.
We don't know how his power was sealed or anything much about him at all. However, if his purpose is to regulate souls, then using his reiatsu for anything else is unnecessary.
Neither situation is correct and there are characters who scale to Yhwach.
Neither.
We don't know how his power was sealed or anything much about him at all. However, if his purpose is to regulate souls, then using his reiatsu for anything else is unnecessary.
Neither situation is correct and there are characters who scale to Yhwach.
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@FinalOrder
Except Aizen of course since he didn't even deem Yhwach worthy enough to use his Bankai on. aahahahahahah
I'll see myself out lads... no more derailing from me.
Except Aizen of course since he didn't even deem Yhwach worthy enough to use his Bankai on. aahahahahahah
I'll see myself out lads... no more derailing from me.
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Wow we still in this huh? I don't get why it is so hard to understand.
Yhwach absorbing the SK allowed him to destroy the worlds. The end. He did it at the end before the plot arrow happened.
What are you even on about? Aizen's and the SK's seal are completely different.
I won't be able to address the issues you brought up Piercer as I am at work and won't be back for awhile and being on the phone doesn't help.
Yhwach absorbing the SK allowed him to destroy the worlds. The end. He did it at the end before the plot arrow happened.
What are you even on about? Aizen's and the SK's seal are completely different.
I won't be able to address the issues you brought up Piercer as I am at work and won't be back for awhile and being on the phone doesn't help.
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That's cool.
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@Piercer
Just reread the chapter to refresh my memory. And yes edrad did one shot Ikkaku when he went all out. But before that Ikkaku tanked 2 of the Town level attacks that we are using to scale plus a punch.
You are relying wayyyyy to much on rankings. Halibel is higher in rank, but yet Grimmjow and Nnoitra were able to fight on par with people stronger than Toshiro who fought Halibel, so they are comparable to Halibel.
And again with Yammy. Just because he's a higher rank doesn't mean he is stronger. Just look at the feats, he was beaten by Kenpachi who is Nnoitra level and Byakuya who is likely Grimmjow level. Any logical thinking shows that Starrk is stronger than him by a very large margin. Unless you want to try and argue that Nnoitra and Grimmjow = Starrk
The evidence that he was holding back is that they were dead even all fight, but then Tōsen gets pushed back and all of a sudden one shots sajin. The only point that can be made for Tōsen being stronger than Starrk is him saying he is stronger. That should not be used, if we took statements at face value, Gremmy would be plant level due to him saying he is the strongest sternritter. Also there's just the fact that Starrk bodies two vizards where as Tōsen had to go all out to beat Sajin, a lower level captain.
There isn't really any evidence, just logical thinking. Why would the youngest captain be stronger than a senior captain that was vastly superior to him pre timeskip. Sure Toshiro trained hard, but for him to close a gap that Shunsui said would take over 100 years to close, in a few months is very inconsistent.
Soldier or LordAizenSama, if you two could give your thoughts on my points, it'd be greatly appreciated.
Just reread the chapter to refresh my memory. And yes edrad did one shot Ikkaku when he went all out. But before that Ikkaku tanked 2 of the Town level attacks that we are using to scale plus a punch.
You are relying wayyyyy to much on rankings. Halibel is higher in rank, but yet Grimmjow and Nnoitra were able to fight on par with people stronger than Toshiro who fought Halibel, so they are comparable to Halibel.
And again with Yammy. Just because he's a higher rank doesn't mean he is stronger. Just look at the feats, he was beaten by Kenpachi who is Nnoitra level and Byakuya who is likely Grimmjow level. Any logical thinking shows that Starrk is stronger than him by a very large margin. Unless you want to try and argue that Nnoitra and Grimmjow = Starrk
The evidence that he was holding back is that they were dead even all fight, but then Tōsen gets pushed back and all of a sudden one shots sajin. The only point that can be made for Tōsen being stronger than Starrk is him saying he is stronger. That should not be used, if we took statements at face value, Gremmy would be plant level due to him saying he is the strongest sternritter. Also there's just the fact that Starrk bodies two vizards where as Tōsen had to go all out to beat Sajin, a lower level captain.
There isn't really any evidence, just logical thinking. Why would the youngest captain be stronger than a senior captain that was vastly superior to him pre timeskip. Sure Toshiro trained hard, but for him to close a gap that Shunsui said would take over 100 years to close, in a few months is very inconsistent.
Soldier or LordAizenSama, if you two could give your thoughts on my points, it'd be greatly appreciated.
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As long as you can argue it properly I won't have a problem.
The Ranking are literally the power scale of the Espada, with like two exceptions that are stated or implied.
Harribel>Ulquiorra>>>>>Nnoitra>Grimmjow.
"Just became he's a higher rank doesn't mean he is stronger" <That's literally what the ranks are, reiatsu/stats.
Kenpachi had gotten stronger after his fight with Nnoitra, so, no. Also, nothing suggest Byakuya was that weak.
Tousen is of a higher rank than Starrk and is valued more by Aizen. Also, Tousen obliterated Bankai Komamura's once he went into Resurrección. Gremmy's Schrift could be argued to be the most powerful but that's not very relevant. Starrk didn't really body them. He got hit around and then damaged them with his Wolves.
I'm not saying that Tōshirō is stronger than Shunsui. I'm asking for evidence that Post-Skip Bankai Tōshirō is still weaker than Shikai Shunsui.
Although, I remembered that scaling would probably put Shikai Shunsui above Bankai Tōshirō anyways.
The Ranking are literally the power scale of the Espada, with like two exceptions that are stated or implied.
Harribel>Ulquiorra>>>>>Nnoitra>Grimmjow.
"Just became he's a higher rank doesn't mean he is stronger" <That's literally what the ranks are, reiatsu/stats.
Kenpachi had gotten stronger after his fight with Nnoitra, so, no. Also, nothing suggest Byakuya was that weak.
Tousen is of a higher rank than Starrk and is valued more by Aizen. Also, Tousen obliterated Bankai Komamura's once he went into Resurrección. Gremmy's Schrift could be argued to be the most powerful but that's not very relevant. Starrk didn't really body them. He got hit around and then damaged them with his Wolves.
I'm not saying that Tōshirō is stronger than Shunsui. I'm asking for evidence that Post-Skip Bankai Tōshirō is still weaker than Shikai Shunsui.
Although, I remembered that scaling would probably put Shikai Shunsui above Bankai Tōshirō anyways.
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The rankings are made for Reiatsu, but the feats shown by a lot of the espada contradict the rankings. And at the end of the day a feat is better than a statement.
Once again I'll bring up Toshiro. If Halibel was vastly above Nnoitra like you are saying, she should have creamed Toshiro in a second. Yet they actually had a good fight. And I'm sure we can agree that Kenpachi > Toshiro. So what I'm getting at is that Nnoitra was on par with someone who gave Halibel a good fight in her ressurection. Therefore he is comparable.
Kenpachi does get stronger after every fight, but Byakuya shouldn't have gotten stronger after his fight. So that's why I say he is on Grimmjow level. Also because if he was higher, his attack should have vaporized Zommari.
Tōsen being valued more than the espada? Not at all, Aizen showed no sign of valuing Tōsen when he was dying, just like with the espada. He still needed to go all out to beat one of the weaker captains. And my point was that characters overhyping their own power is very common in all manga. Starrk bodied them after he used his wolves, they weren't able to get close to him and both got their masks blown off by one explosion.
Like I said, no evidence. Just logic. Unfourunaly Kubo only gave us one statement from Shunsui about Toshiro's potential and didn't expand on it in the final arc.
Once again I'll bring up Toshiro. If Halibel was vastly above Nnoitra like you are saying, she should have creamed Toshiro in a second. Yet they actually had a good fight. And I'm sure we can agree that Kenpachi > Toshiro. So what I'm getting at is that Nnoitra was on par with someone who gave Halibel a good fight in her ressurection. Therefore he is comparable.
Kenpachi does get stronger after every fight, but Byakuya shouldn't have gotten stronger after his fight. So that's why I say he is on Grimmjow level. Also because if he was higher, his attack should have vaporized Zommari.
Tōsen being valued more than the espada? Not at all, Aizen showed no sign of valuing Tōsen when he was dying, just like with the espada. He still needed to go all out to beat one of the weaker captains. And my point was that characters overhyping their own power is very common in all manga. Starrk bodied them after he used his wolves, they weren't able to get close to him and both got their masks blown off by one explosion.
Like I said, no evidence. Just logic. Unfourunaly Kubo only gave us one statement from Shunsui about Toshiro's potential and didn't expand on it in the final arc.
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Wew, this got complicated again.
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@Am Don't go around using placing your own headcanon:
1) "Feats > Statement" first off, show me these feats you claim contradict the scaling
2) Toshiro is a non factor, we don't know how strong he is compared to the other captains, for all we know he could be stronger than Kenpachi Pre Fight with Nnoitra, if you argue the contrary then show evidence or shut your mouth.
3) Byakuya did indeed get stronger, just like Kenpachi, in the SS arc he got defeated by Bankai Ichigo, who got screwed by base Grimmjow in their first encounter yet he goes toe to toe with Kenpachi who defeated Nnoitra and injures R1 Yammy in Shikai who in turn stomped Bankai Ichigo.
4) Tousen easily rekt Grimmjow and is Aizen's right hand man alongside Gin, him being > Stark is consistent. Komamura putting up a fight with him is just a good feat for Sajin
5) Love & Rose damaged Stark and took the full blast of his wolves in Shikai and got up a few panels later with just some scratches, they undoubtedly scale.
Your contentions are invalid
1) "Feats > Statement" first off, show me these feats you claim contradict the scaling
2) Toshiro is a non factor, we don't know how strong he is compared to the other captains, for all we know he could be stronger than Kenpachi Pre Fight with Nnoitra, if you argue the contrary then show evidence or shut your mouth.
3) Byakuya did indeed get stronger, just like Kenpachi, in the SS arc he got defeated by Bankai Ichigo, who got screwed by base Grimmjow in their first encounter yet he goes toe to toe with Kenpachi who defeated Nnoitra and injures R1 Yammy in Shikai who in turn stomped Bankai Ichigo.
4) Tousen easily rekt Grimmjow and is Aizen's right hand man alongside Gin, him being > Stark is consistent. Komamura putting up a fight with him is just a good feat for Sajin
5) Love & Rose damaged Stark and took the full blast of his wolves in Shikai and got up a few panels later with just some scratches, they undoubtedly scale.
Your contentions are invalid
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@Italian I've already given multiple feats but I'll restate them for you. 1- Nnoitra fighting Kenpachi who is stronger than Toshiro who gave Halibel trouble. 2- Byakuya and Kenpachi (who are around Nnoitra level) beating Yammy who has the highest rank of the espada. Please refrain from assuming that I'm using my own headcanon. This is a discussion and we shouldn't be tying to attack anyone.
Toshiro is the youngest captain and is usually depicted as one of the weaker ones before the timeskip and his huge training boost. He's been beaten by Byakuya and struggles against mid level espada.
No he hasn't gotten stronger, Soul reapers don't have zenkai boosts or anything of that sort. He fought Zommari, and then is able to fight Yammy right after, clearly Yammy isn't as strong as his rank indicates. Think about it like this, if Yammy is above Starrk, it would cause Byakuya to scale to Starrk which in turn would cause Zommari to scale to Starrk, and does that make any sense? Of course not.
Once again, Aizen didn't care at all about Tōsen, and secondly rank doesn't mean everything as I explained just above. All sajin fighting Tōsen proves is that Tōsen doesn't scale, rather than the other way around. Just think about it, why would Sajin, a lower ranking captain, scale to the senior captains and the head captain?
They didn't damage him at all, he took the full impact of Love's hollowfied shikai and had no wounds at all. Then when he hit the two vizards with his wolf attack, he was going to finish them off before Shunsui stepped in. Think of their masks Breaking as the same as their Zanpakuto breaking, like what Piercer pointed out about Ikkaku earlier. If an attack is powerful enough to shatter your sword/mask, you are much weaker than said attack.
Toshiro is the youngest captain and is usually depicted as one of the weaker ones before the timeskip and his huge training boost. He's been beaten by Byakuya and struggles against mid level espada.
No he hasn't gotten stronger, Soul reapers don't have zenkai boosts or anything of that sort. He fought Zommari, and then is able to fight Yammy right after, clearly Yammy isn't as strong as his rank indicates. Think about it like this, if Yammy is above Starrk, it would cause Byakuya to scale to Starrk which in turn would cause Zommari to scale to Starrk, and does that make any sense? Of course not.
Once again, Aizen didn't care at all about Tōsen, and secondly rank doesn't mean everything as I explained just above. All sajin fighting Tōsen proves is that Tōsen doesn't scale, rather than the other way around. Just think about it, why would Sajin, a lower ranking captain, scale to the senior captains and the head captain?
They didn't damage him at all, he took the full impact of Love's hollowfied shikai and had no wounds at all. Then when he hit the two vizards with his wolf attack, he was going to finish them off before Shunsui stepped in. Think of their masks Breaking as the same as their Zanpakuto breaking, like what Piercer pointed out about Ikkaku earlier. If an attack is powerful enough to shatter your sword/mask, you are much weaker than said attack.
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I forget people on this site get offended by literally anything
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Y'all should preferably just chill and debate civilly.
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Yeah I think we should get some more input to end this discussion sooner rather than later. Currently it's just myself and Piercer going back and forth with good points on each end of the debate.Burning Full Fingers said:
What we basically need to resolve is:
-Should Lieutenants in shikai scale to Edrad's calc?
-Should Grimmjow and Nnoitra scale to Halibel and the Toshiro calc?
-Should Tōsen and Sajin scale to the city calc or the island calc?
-Should Byakuya and Kenpachi scale to the city calc or the island calc?
-And Should Shunsui and other seniors scale to the island calc? (Although this one is probably finished)
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I'll need to look through again but I'm pretty sure most of them scale.
Again most likely. Soldier brought up how Zommari contended with bankai byakuya who scales and Grimm and Nnoitra >> him.
Not certain. He was stated to be above the Espada probanly just boasting, but I forgot who said it.
Large city max for those 2.
Yes. In hindsight it was probably a bad reason I wrote up there due to having a massive headache. Shunsui fought Lille who would be island level.
Still at work so I can't go through all of them closer. Sorry.
Edit: The lieutenants scale. The feat was from a fraccion and they should all be comparable to each other.
Again most likely. Soldier brought up how Zommari contended with bankai byakuya who scales and Grimm and Nnoitra >> him.
Not certain. He was stated to be above the Espada probanly just boasting, but I forgot who said it.
Large city max for those 2.
Yes. In hindsight it was probably a bad reason I wrote up there due to having a massive headache. Shunsui fought Lille who would be island level.
Still at work so I can't go through all of them closer. Sorry.
Edit: The lieutenants scale. The feat was from a fraccion and they should all be comparable to each other.
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.....what in the hell happened here?
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political debate...I think.LordAizenSama said:
Also, shouldn't Ichigo have two "True-Bankai" keys because the one that one-shot Yhwach twice isn't even his full power since the mustache guy had taken his hollow and quincy power beforehand?
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Can add that aswell, serms.fine even if it is Only a exact copy of the previous key
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Question since we're here. Can Ichigo kust actuvste his Hollow powers or does he have to wait until his quincy reiatsu activates?
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Iirc he can do it but hes not good at it, so he stole some of Yhwachs reiatsu to create a unbalance and make it easier to do so. I think.
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I was thinking, it might be worth considering to add likely higher to the senior captains who are being scaled to Toshiro. I was looking at Shunsui's fight against Starrk and an interesting quote came up. Shunsui said that if Toshiro had at least another 100 Years, he could surpass him. Why is this important? The current Toshiro feat was Toshiro after less than a year of training. So chances are Shunsui is much higher than island level if he said Toshiro would need at least 100 Years to surpass him. Any thoughts on this?
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It's really just speculation on shunsuis part and even more speculative knowing that hitsugaya trained hard during the timeskip. So I would just leave it alone
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On Aizen's AP on his profile, it says he's "At least Island level+" in base while he's just "Island level+" in Chrysalis form. Is this a mistake, or is it suppose to be like that?
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Probably a mistake. Kuu is gunna go along and fix everuthing up later. Goodjob Kuu
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Sealed Unohana killed Unpatched Kenpachi several times, even after several power ups on his end. Bankai Ichigo was stated to be similar to her with less than half of his reiatsu. Aizen and Bankai Ichigo should be on similar levels. Isshin was more than capable of fighting Aizen and Gin could easily pressure Bankai Ichigo. Urahara and Yoruichi could damage Chrysalis Aizen, so, they would probably scale too.
So, we're looking at High 6-C - Low 6-B High Tiers.
So, we're looking at High 6-C - Low 6-B High Tiers.
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Went through the thread earlier. Wanted to reply but couldn't because some work shit came up and I was busy.
Anyway... We've agreed not to scale Yammy to 6-C, right? Because that makes no sense. Pre time skip Zaraki with eyepatch and pre time skip Byakuya could easily injure him. And Yachiru Unohana would kick both their asses without much trouble.
Anyway... We've agreed not to scale Yammy to 6-C, right? Because that makes no sense. Pre time skip Zaraki with eyepatch and pre time skip Byakuya could easily injure him. And Yachiru Unohana would kick both their asses without much trouble.
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Yammy doesnt scale, no.
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So which Espada were agreed to scale from the 6-C calc? Resurreccion Starrk and post time skip Grimmjow?
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Yeah, that's why I asked about Grimmjow. Hollow reiatsu is like poison to Quincy so scaling him from Askin and Quilge is a bit troublesome.
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So I think that is pretty much it. Only thing I need done to start editing is: Town level+ calc evaluatio and Large Town level calc be put in a blog.
I want to do it all in one go so I hope the 2 above can be done so I can start tomorrow since it's Friday for me so when I get back from work I can concentrate on it since I don't have work on the weekends.
Sorry for delaying this. I want to get it over just as much as you guys. This shit has given me a headache after headache. Hopefully the last time we have this big ass revision.
I want to do it all in one go so I hope the 2 above can be done so I can start tomorrow since it's Friday for me so when I get back from work I can concentrate on it since I don't have work on the weekends.
Sorry for delaying this. I want to get it over just as much as you guys. This shit has given me a headache after headache. Hopefully the last time we have this big ass revision.
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