Bleach Questions: Reiatsu Crush, and the Relevance of AP, Durability, and Verse Equalization

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I don't care about other media. Everyone in the main cast has a strong spiritual body/soul. They even tanked Sklaveri which forcefully absorbs spirtual objects/beings.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Starrk's Reiatsu was potent enough to kill Hollows near him accidentally as a side effect and Orihime could physically touch him.

This doesn't mean Orihime was on par with Starrk in terms of Reiryoku or else she would have been able to stomp Ulquiorra when he kidnapped her.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Also about Reiatsu Crush, remember that Yamamoto caused this to Nanao?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Yeah that's straight up wrong unless you think Tatsuki has Reiryoku similar to Yammy.

That is literally how it's treated everywhere is else and explained.
Like Here

That scan deosn't show anything, it's talking about how Ichigo needs to get used to his spiritual body.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

and here

 

[Paul_Frank]

Again PIS is a perfectly valid reasoning here considering the amount of times a character with less Reiryoku has been unaffected by a stronger character is actually rather few and far between

The few times that a weaker character wasn't reiatsu crushed it's clear that either the stronger character was attempting to not hurt them or that if Kubo was consistent and the character was reiatsu crushed the story would literally break

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

and here

Reiatsu can indeed stun, are we just going through what it can do?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

no look at the full context.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

That is literally how it's treated everywhere is else and explained.

Like Here

You should use scans that aren't **********.

Either way this scan was about Urahara telling Ichigo that he needs to train his Konpaku which will help his body movement be more refined and his Reiryoku will be restored once he reaches that point (this was incorrect as we learn Ichigo was always a Quincy/Shinigami).

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I'm fully willing to concede if there's any proof that this isnt just the same thing as Dragonball where Ki can outright Negate effects by simply being stronger.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

no look at the full context.

Yes Ichigo can defeat him but what of it? it's irrelevant to my point.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

What about what Yamamoto did to Nanao, girl looked like she was legit dying there

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

no look at the full context.

Yes Ichigo can defeat him but what of it? it's irrelevant to my point.

Why can Ichigo Defeat him with out getting soul crushed

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm fully willing to concede if there's any proof that this isnt just the same thing as Dragonball where Ki can outright Negate effects by simply being stronger.

This isn't accepted for Reiatsu so doesn't matter. I can bring up dozens of examples that prove this wrong.

 

[AstralKing7]

Because you dont need to have Soul resistance but comparable Reiatsu which is generated by your Reryoku.
So according to you, Orihime is equal to Ulquiorra and Yhwach. Tatsuki is equal to Yammy and Aizen.

This counter towards Shadow itself sounds like a cop out. pIS is a thing and can last over a whole series

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

PIS can't last a whole series, it isn't PIS if it is the whole plot.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Plus, there are several instances throughout each arc, it literally can't be PIS.

 

[AstralKing7]

Oof your right I meant WIS

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

PIS can't last a whole series, it isn't PIS if it is the whole plot.

yes it can

Example: Jedi constantly get killed by blasters and beaten by bounty hunters.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Oof your right I meant WIS

How is it WIS? Kubo slaughters people all the time.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

PIS can't last a whole series, it isn't PIS if it is the whole plot.

yes it can
Example: Jedi constantly get killed by blasters and beaten by bounty hunters.

This isn't Star Wars, another series short comings have nothing to do with Bleach.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Ren Fuji survives the whole novel

Kirito wins every fight with pis

Eren Yeager wasn't killed yet

Pis can certainly last a whole series

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This is like when people say Orihime hurting/reacting to top tiers is PIS because she's human.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

PIS can't last a whole series, it isn't PIS if it is the whole plot.

yes it can
Example: Jedi constantly get killed by blasters and beaten by bounty hunters.

This isn't Star Wars, another series short comings have nothing to do with Bleach.

doesnt matter the point you were making was that it cant be PIS if it's consistent , which is Incorrect

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Shadow

Another series shortcomings have nothing to do with this. Kubo has no issue giving people gruesome deaths or injuries. You're essentially arguing stats > hax which isn't how it works on vs wiki at all. Regardless if your stronger you need feats of resisting said hax which is what this power is hax.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

yes it can

Example: Jedi constantly get killed by blasters and beaten by bounty hunters.

Shouldnt be PIS if it's consistent and throughout the whole series.

Consistency and support debunks PIS, or it'd be WIS if there were multiple authors.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

no PIS is by definition just Plot Contrivances, your story can be full of plot contrivances doesn't make it consistent it's just a story full of contrivances.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Shadow
. You're essentially arguing stats > hax which isn't how it works on vs wiki at all. Regardless if your stronger you need feats of resisting said hax which is what this power is hax.

The Problem is the series tells us that having greater power will negate this hax

 

[Antoniofer]

Perhaps people is confusing PIS, (in)consistency and Deus Ex Machina; if the same scenery happens a lot then is consistency, if the character have two building level durability but across all the serie is damaged by street to wall level feats then building level is the PIS and the street-wall is the consistent.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sui's abilities were outright Negated by a higher Reiatsu aswell, this supports the Reiatsu strength

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Perhaps people is confusing PIS, (in)consistency and Deus Ex Machina; if the same scenery happens a lot then is consistency, if the character have two building level durability but across all the serie is damaged by street to wall level feats then building level is the PIS and the street-wall is the consistent.

This is why we seperate PIS from Outliers, they might sound similar but they are not the same

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

@Shadow

The problem is this isn't true (barely).

• Gin 1 shoting Aizen.
• Yama under KS.
• Lille 1 shoting everyone.
• Soul King being sealed.
• Aizen caught in Sakanade.
• Aizen sealed.
• Ichigo getting 1 shot by Askin.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Sui's abilities were outright Negated by a higher Reiatsu aswell, this supports the Reiatsu strength

This was rejected, go make a CRT about it..

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sui's abilities were outright Negated by a higher Reiatsu aswell, this supports the Reiatsu strength

This was rejected, go make a CRT about it..

Your not understanding what I'm saying....

Sui's scene proves that Reiatsu can outright Negate effects, obviously not all effects as you listed below... the problem comes from the fact that it's consistently implied or stated that to survive being Soul crushed you need to have comparable Reiatsu or the enemy would have to lower their's.

Reiatsu crush isnt treated as a haxed ability but a passive ability generated by your Reiatsu that can be negated by someone having comparable or stonger Reiatsu.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

anyway ill be signing out after this.

I dont like debating Bleach or Naruto all that much anymore so Adios

 

[Link_Eternal]

Wasn't the soifon moment more of a point toward the reiatsu=durability thing, since she needs to stab someone in order to leave her mark, but couldn't because of reiatsu difference?

Anyway, any relevant characters in Bleach have a resistance to soul manipulation as an inherent quality of reiatsu once you possess an unknown quantity of it (at least far more than the average human), as seen during Yammy's debut.

The way I see it the only way for verse equalization to grant a resistance to the effects of reiatsu is if:

1. The effects of reiatsu are not considered to be soul manipulation,

2. verse equalization also equalizes the inherent properties/qualities/abilities/hax of any given form of energy, this means that, in the example given above, Aizen is the one who would get reiatsu crushed by Sasuke, because chakra would be equalized, and thus temporarily given the properties of reiatsu,

 

[AstralKing7]

Why didn't we just let this stay an in verse ability

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because it's a power and that would be nerfing them for no reason outside of appeasing some people just like their invisibility, Bleach isn't the only series that can do this. A bunch of chinese series can do this.

 

[Dr.Fix]

With regards to characters like Orihime resisting Ulquiorra's reiatsu, nope. Ulq's reiatsu was actually stopping her from healing properly. The reiatsu crush never effected characters of comparabl power(tier). there was always a vast difference.

Ie,Orihime not dieing from a stronger reiatsu =/= PIot or Comparable to Ulquiorra. It just means the difference isn't this >>>>>>>>>> huge.

Anyway, I see the reiatsu as being generated by the soul, but still energy felt by anything. Everything in Bleach has a soul is true but also an excuse since there is no way of proving it works or not on non-souls. Put it under verse equalization is where I fall under.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ie,Orihime not dieing from a stronger reiatsu =/= PIot or Comparable to Ulquiorra. It just means the difference isn't this >>>>>>>>>> huge

These sentences contradict each other. It also ignores that the gap between Orihime and Ulquiorra is huge.