Itachi Outsmarts all of Bleach

[Arcker123]

Hello people. We're going to start a new series revising Bleach profiles in terms of range, intelligence, and such and more.

Arcker123/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

Today we're going to start with Kisuke and Aizen, the smartest characters in the verse. Starting off with the hardest first. I'm going to justify why I gave them a Supergenius upgrade. Gonna be finishing scan mid thread because justifications are done.

According to the Intelligence page, one can get a Supergenius rating for technology if:

the character in question should be able to essentially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases.

The bolded is the most important argument to the case here, and I believe that Aizen and Kisuke do this with their creation of the Hogyoku, a device that is stated to warp reality on the level of the entire Bleach world, which we accept to be composed of several universes (3-A to Low 2-C Structures). Scans in Sandbox, Thanks Damage.

Since Aizen and Kisuke can use their inventions to literally warp reality according to their wishes, they should have Supergenius intelligence. Kisuke also debatably has another Supergenius feat by manipulating the Dangai's time axis to shorten the range of its temporal BFR from centuries to only days. The Dangai we accept to be a Low 2-C structure.

If this gets accepted we need to unlock the Intelligence page directly to remove Aizen and Kisuke as examples of EG since we are updating them to SG. They should probably be examples of SG if this gets accepted due to their popularity but that should be discussed elsewhere, for now, just removing them from EG makes sense.

Edit: Another important argument here is Macro Quantum Matter Manipulation for Kisuke, didn't feel the need to make a new thread since this is supposed to be a comprehensive profile revision, so I added it here, atomic is very arbitrary and I apologize for not including this in the OP sooner (I forgot to put it into the sandbox), I don't find this particularly controversial, and since the thread is ongoing, I felt it okay to add. If there are enough disagreements, I will remove it.

Kisuke vs Rick Sanchez is the match ngl.

Itachi still outthinks the "Creating bullshit mcguffins are my only intelligence feats" gang by the way. Getting good grades on a high school level exam as a child and true intellectual monologues about truth > Hogyoku merchants and psuedo intellectual speeches about truth.

Agree: Arc7Kuroi, Crobatman44, Bastolan27, LordGinSama, @Godernet, @Deceived3596, @Excel616, @SlendVeny, LordTracer, UchihaSlayer96, KillerNerd007

Neutral:

Disagree: Deagonx, @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Antvasima, @SilentBob34 (With supergenius)

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Having seen this before and reviewing it again now, this seems fine.

 

[Crobatman44]

disagree for the deviantart watermark.
Looking it over this probably works.

 

[Arcker123]

disagree for the deviantart watermark.

The image itself was too good not to use.

 

[Bastolan27]

I agree, although the Dangai is not considered Low 2-C due to its unknown size. The Hyogoku is enough to support this, so it's okay.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Even if dangai isn't low 2-C it's still a monumental feat to be able to be able to manipulate a world's (of any size) flow of time which would still likely be enough for supergenius.

 

[Bastolan27]

Even if dangai isn't low 2-C it's still a monumental feat to be able to be able to manipulate a world's (of any size) flow of time which would still likely be enough for supergenius.

I pointed out the dangai thing because some people could try to nitpick it to disagree. However, even though the Dangai is not low 2-C, it's still 4-D (3 Spatial and 1 Temporal), and the temporal dimensions are always considered infinite due to it stretching to the past and Future, so manipulating it supports SG int.

 

[Arcker123]

If I ever call the Dangai a universe there i'm sorry.

The Supergenius feat there is simply manipulating the temporal axis thing Kototsu/Dangai does.

 

[LordGinSama]

Looks good.

 

[Godernet]

Hagoromo still smarter unfortunately

Makes sense tho

 

[Arcker123]

Whole verse loses to Mayuri in a chess game.

 

[Godernet]

Mayuri during the Chunin Exams written portion

 

[LordGinSama]

Luffy outsmarts both verses at the same time.

 

[Arcker123]

Naruto characters when they complete grade level exams (High school trig is Extraordinary Genius)

 

[zylieo]

 

[zylieo]

I agree, although the Dangai is not considered Low 2-C due to its unknown size. The Hyogoku is enough to support this, so it's okay.

The Dangai doesn’t need to be Universal in size in order to qualify for Low 2-C

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Can yall stop derailing about the Dangai, its not pertinent to the main argument

 

[zylieo]

Can yall stop derailing about the Dangai, its not pertinent to the main argument

I thought this was Bleach general

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Actual Zylieo moment

 

[Valeska24]

Agreed

 

[Aernasilver]

Mayuri on seppuku watch.

 

[Loyd]

While these intelligence feats do meet the requirements (even better in some case) i think the distinguishing factor that separates Extraordinary and Super genius is the ability to casually employ said level and to an extremely versatile degree. For both characters i think its more like they can potentially be super genius but ill go with neutrel on this.

Also idk if you've added these but some cool novel feats for Urahara is the implication he can recreate the Hogyoku whenever and purposely getting captured by Aura to disable Tokinada fortress iirc

 

[Excellence616]

I agree.

 

[Deceived3596]

Agree.

 

[SlendVeny]

Naruto characters when they complete grade level exams (High school trig is Extraordinary Genius)

The Chunin exams had college-level chemistry and the Theory of Relativity on the written portion

Anyway, agree

 

[Arcker123]

While these intelligence feats do meet the requirements (even better in some case) i think the distinguishing factor that separates Extraordinary and Super genius is the ability to casually employ said level and to an extremely versatile degree. For both characters i think its more like they can potentially be super genius but ill go with neutrel on this.

Also idk if you've added these but some cool novel feats for Urahara is the implication he can recreate the Hogyoku whenever and purposely getting captured by Aura to disable Tokinada fortress iirc

The Hogyoku's ability to reality war ranges from fate Manipulation to Reactive evolution to Immortality to etc.

The only distinction is doing it on a 3-A level, not this. The gap of ease is not on the profile, only scale.

 

[Loyd]

Take note that for a Supergenius rating to be given based on technological prowess, the character in question should be able to essentially warp reality as they wish on an at least universal (3-A) scale with their inventions, or even use them to overpower tier 1 entities for higher cases. Simply defying the laws of physics with futuristic technology is very common for Extraordinary Geniuses as well. Basically there should be a very extreme amount of versatility combined with a high or extremely high degree of scale.

Yeah the Hogyoku they created have alot of abilities factored into it but they don't really employ to a great extent (Aizen possibly) but definitely not a high degree or versatility, the Hogyoku is basically there magnum opus and affecting the dangai's time axis is just a really good extraordinary feat

Not only is this standard not on the page, the only distinction is doing it on a 3-A level, not this.

Nah that wasn't for super genius just more interesting intellect feats i recalled in the novels

 

[Arcker123]

Yeah the Hogyoku they created have alot of abilities factored into it but they don't really employ to a great extent (Aizen possibly)

I don't see why you think this. The fact is that all of the Hogyoku's powers are reality warping, these powers are incredibly varied and would all affect the Cosmology due to the Hogyoku's reality warping affecting all of it.

I mean, just look at the Hogyoku ability page if you want to see the applications to its warping powers. This goes to show that its both varied and on a scale neeed for Supergenius.

Nah that wasn't for super genius just more interesting intellect feats i recalled in the novels

I wasn't talking about that. If you can give me scans though, i'll include them.

 

[Loyd]

I wasn't talking about that. If you can give me scans though, i'll include them.

Its late i'll send you some scans tmr

 

[Arcker123]

Thanks so much for the help.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It looks good, but Op doesn't identify with the title, lol

 

[Arcker123]

To be completely honest. You can make a semi decent case that Itachi has better battle strategy feats but that's about it.

In pretty much most of every other category of intelligence, Itachi is far outclassed, especially in something like technology.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

To be completely honest. You can make a semi decent case that Itachi has better battle strategy feats but that's about it.

In pretty much most of every other category of intelligence, Itachi is far outclassed, especially in something like technology.

Now everything makes more sense

 

[ssgengar]

Naruto characters when they complete grade level exams (High school trig is Extraordinary Genius)

Someone tried translating some of the test questions and they seem a lot harder than hs trig lol

 

[Deagonx]

The bolded is the most important argument to the case here, and I believe that Aizen and Kisuke do this with their creation of the Hogyoku, a device that is stated to warp reality on the level of the entire Bleach world, which we accept to be composed of several universes (3-A to Low 2-C Structures). Scans in Sandbox, Thanks Damage.

Since Aizen and Kisuke can use their inventions to literally warp reality according to their wishes, they should have Supergenius intelligence.

I would not agree with this. According to the novels the Hogyoku are made by fragments of the Soul King, which is what grants them their power. As seen in this scan Aizen kept feeding his Hogyoku more and more souls but failed to perfect it, only succeeding when he took Urahara's Hogyoku and fed it to his own.

What we'd expect of someone of Supergenius intelligence is that their understanding of technology is so great that they can just construct 3-A technology through raw intellect. Using a fragment of a incredibly powerful being to create a failed wish granting device that only worked when they fed it hundreds of souls as well as another failed wish granting device doesn't really pass inspection for me, personally.

 

[Arcker123]

What we'd expect of someone of Supergenius intelligence is that their understanding of technology is so great that they can just construct 3-A technology through raw intellect. Using a fragment of a incredibly powerful being to create a failed wish granting device that only worked when they fed it hundreds of souls as well as another failed wish granting device doesn't really pass inspection for me, personally.

Cool? None of this reasoning is supported by the page so who cares? I don't care to have a 3 page debate with you so i'll just give you that.

All that's needed is creating a 3-A device. All this other shit you're arguing is not accepted and thus isn't a debunk.

Edit: Abitrary nitpicks wouldn't show this to be false.

 

[Excellence616]

I would not agree with this. According to the novels the Hogyoku are made by fragments of the Soul King, which is what grants them their power. As seen in this scan Aizen kept feeding his Hogyoku more and more souls but failed to perfect it, only succeeding when he took Urahara's Hogyoku and fed it to his own.

What we'd expect of someone of Supergenius intelligence is that their understanding of technology is so great that they can just construct 3-A technology through raw intellect. Using a fragment of a incredibly powerful being to create a failed wish granting device that only worked when they fed it hundreds of souls as well as another failed wish granting device doesn't really pass inspection for me, personally.

The Hōgyoku isn't created by Soul King fragments.

 

[Deagonx]

@Damage3245 what do you think of the Supergenius Intelligence argument?

 

[Arcker123]

Deagon, your opinions have no bearing on the page itself. How does anything on the page show that the Hogyoku or the other feats do not meet the standards?

 

[Deagonx]

I don't believe the manner in which the Hogyoku developed this power is appropriately described as resulting from Aizen's "technological prowess" given the nature of its development. He didn't create highly advanced technology that was 3-A, he fed a bunch of stuff to a mysterious orb that was combined with a piece of an extremely powerful being. If he were actually a supergenius he wouldn't need the Soul King fragment, hundreds of souls, or another persons failed Hogyoku. He could just create the technology himself, which he didn't.

In a nutshell, feeding 3-A power into an object doesn't make you a Supergenius for inventing the object, the 3-A comes from the power you fed it, not your own intellect.