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Or you can look at Arc's elaboration and see that the same exact speed numbers are reached by (distance Ichigo moved/distance Candice moved)×(Candice's speed) and he only did the reaction calc to make it easier to understand
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Bleach God Tier Slight Speed Revision
- Thread starter Arc7Kuroi
- Start date
- Status
EldemadeDityjon
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Btw i stilll don't get your POV. As far as we can see many staff has different POV than you. So anyway isn't higher number of staff input is taken as Conclusion?. It's just argument from both sides keeps getting repeated.
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No offense man, but multiple other calc group members think it’s not calc stacking. What gives you and Don’t Talk superiority over what others think? To change standards that were never a problem before because you have an issue with Bleach is a petty argument. You’re basically saying you don’t care what others think, because in your opinion you think it’s calc stacking so you’re right and gonna do whatever you can to make sure your opinion goes through
And before you bring up the whole it’s not about Bleach argument, I find it funny you never commented on this before when the calc’s were made and any other calc that involves situations like this. It just happened to be when an upgrade thread was made
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What makes you think I spotted this situation when the other calcs were made and decided to keep quiet about it?
You said "before you bring it up" but accusations of bias that you're barely glossing over aren't appreciated. You're not going to suddenly change mey mind and make think it isn't a problem at all by saying "You're only picking on Bleach."
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We just got a comment from Duedate at the end of the previous page saying he didn't even look at the calcs in too much detail.
A higher number of staff is required for a decision to go through, but a number of staff can be still be mistaken about something. The site's standards take a higher precedence than a group of staff unless those standards are changed first. Besides, the thread hasn't gone on nearly long enough for it to be rushed to a conclusion and a simple majority vote taken.
I could understand it if was just me seeing an issue in it, but DontTalk is a highly experienced member of the community and a Bureaucrat. So there's probably something more to it than if it was just me alone.
Jibz
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"And before you bring up the whole it’s not about Bleach argument, I find it funny you never commented on this before when the calc’s were made and any other calc that involves situations like this. It just happened to be when an upgrade thread was made"
The accusatory tones of disagreeing with the upgrades just for the sake of bias is baffling to me, its such a bratty, petulant thing to do. Grow up, and argue your side instead of saying Damage is disagreeing literally just because he's bias, because that's just disrespectful.
The accusatory tones of disagreeing with the upgrades just for the sake of bias is baffling to me, its such a bratty, petulant thing to do. Grow up, and argue your side instead of saying Damage is disagreeing literally just because he's bias, because that's just disrespectful.
EldemadeDityjon
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But isn't many staffs are calculation group only. Yeah Don'tTalk is very experienced person. I know, he is also unbiased person in wiki. I am just saying the arguments are keep repeating on both sides. It seems Gotta wait for OP response
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No. Damage is going to make a Content Revision thread to add that rule so this thread doesn't go through and he will downgrade other verses too. That's why this thread is been delayed.
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This is not the first, second, or third time Damage has coincidencetly found an "error" in the VSBW rules and made a new thread to "fix" it with his new rule related to a Bleach upgrade of somekind. Is just coincidence I tell you. Coincidence.
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I doubt this would require a whole separate CRT but I'll consult with other staff members and see if that is required.
And people having disagreements with a thread doesn't mean it is being unfairly delayed. I'd rather we take time and do things right than rush a calc through when it may have problems with it. You'd kick up a bigger fuss if the calcs were accepted and applied to the profiles then removed later in a separate thread.
I see you've decided to ignore the OP's request for less toxicity in these threads. Do this kind of post again, which is derailing the thread, and you'll be thread-banned for this toxicity.
In case you haven't been keeping up with the actual discussion, I don't think there is an error in our current VSBW rules. I think that the situation that is happening with these calcs is covered by our existing rules.
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Slide modification or not. I never mentioned the speed of the thread. I brought forth questions about the legistic of the calculation been used in the thread compare to the actual calc stalcking number you speak off doesn't exist and provided an alternative with using a low-mid-high speeds for lightning as required in the lightning table. You decided to play "I'm right" and completly contradicted your own statement. Perphaps, you decided to ignore it. That doesn't matter. I'm not keeping count or screenshooting all your new rule posts. I want to talk blantly about the calc itself not been contradicted by the current rules as you pointed out but now you don't see the error in the rules which I should call a loop hole that you want to close. But regardless the calc follows the rules and is not contradicted by any rule in the page. So until one is added you can't do anything. What I am trying to say is that your opinion here is wrong.
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@AppleLord Thank you for your assessment.
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If she teleports by turning herself into lightning or just travel in a straight line then maybe.. But she transformed into lightning, and circled around Kenpachi and stopped behind him in the exact spot she wanted, so her reaction can't possibly be slower than lightning or she couldn't have controlled her own movement in this short distance.
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Good point imo, if she's not lightning reaction how can she precisely control where to move and where to stop all during a point blank attack from Kenpachi ? It's pretty blatant her reaction scale to her own movement and I don't even know why are we still arguing. I mean, there is Johnny joestar being massively FTL when he can't dodge gunfire but here we're being picky on a character shown to fully and perfectly control her own lightning speed movements
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Not that I care about Bleach but fundamentally I wouldn't consider stated speed calcs as calc stacking.
If, for example, a character is stated to have a reaction time of like 1/100000th of a second, or mach 5 reactions or that they're as fast as sound, and a character moves like 20m before they could perceive them, threw a punch before they could move or intercepts them while they're running or what not or dodging them, that should be all accounts be perfectly fine.
It's effectively no different than if a character did something in a given timeframe (for example the FTL OPM calc) or like intercepting a Mach bullet, only difference is that instead of a object or the like, it's a character.
There's inherently nothing wrong with this, in fact I'd call it extremely straightforward.
Though idk if this chick actually is 100% stated to have the reactions or speed or whatever, as said I don't do Bleach, but I agree with this methodology in concept.
If, for example, a character is stated to have a reaction time of like 1/100000th of a second, or mach 5 reactions or that they're as fast as sound, and a character moves like 20m before they could perceive them, threw a punch before they could move or intercepts them while they're running or what not or dodging them, that should be all accounts be perfectly fine.
It's effectively no different than if a character did something in a given timeframe (for example the FTL OPM calc) or like intercepting a Mach bullet, only difference is that instead of a object or the like, it's a character.
There's inherently nothing wrong with this, in fact I'd call it extremely straightforward.
Though idk if this chick actually is 100% stated to have the reactions or speed or whatever, as said I don't do Bleach, but I agree with this methodology in concept.
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Our calc stacking page does have acceptable cases on calc stacking, and I agree that "stated speeds" like how you're describing are part of the accepted methodology. But I don't think that applies in this circumstance.
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I agree. Damage's proposal would bring some recalcs for the Flash (tv) calcs specially when they give you a lot of mach numbers for the character.
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@Damage3245 can you give me the low down on your current hold ups atm?
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I'll try to do a write up at some point tonight.
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None that have been mentioned, but I’m waiting for Damage’s low down
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Man I did a similar calc to the Candice one and I'm getting told that the wiki doesn't allow it 
It had everything, shown reacting to lightning multiple times, another character keeps up and stuff and another character blitzs
It had everything, shown reacting to lightning multiple times, another character keeps up and stuff and another character blitzs
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You can message my wall or DM on discord if you want me to give you my opinion on your calc and if it is the same case as mine/the FT calcs. But refrain from derailing this thread please.Man I did a similar calc to the Candice one and I'm getting told that the wiki doesn't allow it
It had everything, shown reacting to lightning multiple times, another character keeps up and stuff and another character blitzs
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Agree
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I'll address the 3rd calc separately after I've done my write-up for the 1st & 2nd calcs.
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So @AlexSoloVaAlFuturo coccslapped my Candice calc a little bit, so I’m gonna post a corrected version within the following hours. Also, found some new info that may quell any contentions with the calc.
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I'll hold off my comment to see the revisions.
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Here's the new version. I also updated the OP to include it. It skips the whole perception time because rereading the blitz, you actually see Candice move a little bit, so I used her stated speed + given movement instead, calcing a distance ratio.
I also made the justifications in the Hikone calc much clearer. Since Res Grimmjow was among the group who couldn't react to Hikone, and base Grimmjow has the blatant ctg lightning bolt speed statement. This way there's less confusion.
I also made the justifications in the Hikone calc much clearer. Since Res Grimmjow was among the group who couldn't react to Hikone, and base Grimmjow has the blatant ctg lightning bolt speed statement. This way there's less confusion.
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Thanks for the update. I'll try to go through it soon.
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This thread is now based enough, and the new calc is definitely cleaner than the old one
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uni really not giving us even this week
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Okay, let me address the Hikone / Grimmjow calc first since that one largely has the same issues from my initial objection:
The problem with a Perception Time calc like this one is that there is a distance component that has to be known. 1 meter can't simply be assumed as default for this.
Perception Time is calculated for the amount of time it took a character to react to a certain speed over a certain distance. If we're calculating a character's perception speed for reacting to a bullet then that value is going to change depending on how far away the shooter is. Likewise a character's flight speed / movement speed can't simply take 1 meter out of nowhere and use that in the calc.
For example if a character flies through space at 4 million times the speed of light, we do not automatically take their perception as being [1 meter / 4 billion c]. We had a standards revision thread recently that handled how reaction times scale to flight/movement speed, and it was decided it didn't directly correlate.
The reaction tiers table on the Reactions page gives generic values for that based on our speed tiers, but it is not a direct 1 to 1. If a character has a speed rating of Supersonic, we don't automatically assume a perception speed rating of [1 meter / 343 m/s] for them.
I might not be explaining it as well as I could, so apologies for that, but the tl;dr is that there has to be a known distance component for a Perception Time calc and a 1 meter assumption isn't viable. Just like how our Reactions page specifies that we can't use 1 meter as the default assumption for Reaction Speed calcs either.
The problem with a Perception Time calc like this one is that there is a distance component that has to be known. 1 meter can't simply be assumed as default for this.
Perception Time is calculated for the amount of time it took a character to react to a certain speed over a certain distance. If we're calculating a character's perception speed for reacting to a bullet then that value is going to change depending on how far away the shooter is. Likewise a character's flight speed / movement speed can't simply take 1 meter out of nowhere and use that in the calc.
For example if a character flies through space at 4 million times the speed of light, we do not automatically take their perception as being [1 meter / 4 billion c]. We had a standards revision thread recently that handled how reaction times scale to flight/movement speed, and it was decided it didn't directly correlate.
The reaction tiers table on the Reactions page gives generic values for that based on our speed tiers, but it is not a direct 1 to 1. If a character has a speed rating of Supersonic, we don't automatically assume a perception speed rating of [1 meter / 343 m/s] for them.
I might not be explaining it as well as I could, so apologies for that, but the tl;dr is that there has to be a known distance component for a Perception Time calc and a 1 meter assumption isn't viable. Just like how our Reactions page specifies that we can't use 1 meter as the default assumption for Reaction Speed calcs either.
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Our reaction page standards heavily disagree. They use 1 m / speed for reaction times for each of the times listed in the table.
1 m isn't out of nowhere, it's straight from how our reaction times table is calculated.
Furthermore, it's stated Grimmjow couldn't react at all; however, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt by assuming he could essentially move an entire meter in the time it took Hikone to blitz everyone. Which in essence of itself lowballs the calc.
If you'd like to @ @CloverDragon03 and @DemonGodMitchAubin they can maybe add more context to why 1 m is fine.
Edit: Obviously, it'd be nice to have visuals for how much Grimmjow may have moved; however, I see no reason to wait 10 years for the novel to get adapted to put this off. It's like assuming a 1s timeframe for something that happens "instantaneously" or "in the blink of an eye", it is far from unreasonable.
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Will respond in a couple hours.
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I don't really see the issue here, being able to react from something that's 1 Meter away from you seems like a fine bar for Reactions
We've literally always done it this way, but now that it's gonna upgrade some Bleach characters, it's a problem?
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Please don't make this an issue of bias and turn this toxic, I don't care that this is about Bleach characters or not. I don't think you realize how much you're hurting the discussion by insinuating this. Hate me if you want, but you think DontTalk is objecting to this because it is Bleach characters?
As a staff member you should be better than this Mitch. A user was warned earlier in the thread because of this.
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