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(I'm also happy to temp-lock this thread for you until this other method is ready so we can stop people pointlessly posting "bump" while we wait.)
As far as I can see, more staff has agreed than disagreed. I don't believe there is a need for a temp-lock since someone may get new information and post it here. Plus the thread is pretty chill. Still it's on Arc's hands what he wants to do.
 
As far as I can see, more staff has agreed than disagreed. I don't believe there is a need for a temp-lock since someone may get new information and post it here. Plus the thread is pretty chill. Still it's on Arc's hands what he wants to do.
Temp-lock was just a suggestion. We've done it before for when the OP needs a bit more time before they can get back to a thread, but I'm happy to leave it open too.
 
As far as I can see, more staff has agreed than disagreed. I don't believe there is a need for a temp-lock since someone may get new information and post it here. Plus the thread is pretty chill. Still it's on Arc's hands what he wants to do.
I’d rather have unanimous agreement ideally, plus I think some of the issues with the Candice calc are valid.


Temp-lock was just a suggestion. We've done it before for when the OP needs a bit more time before they can get back to a thread, but I'm happy to leave it open too.
Yeah a temp-lock would be nice 👌 and it can be re-opened come the weekend.
 
At a glance, the problem with the Hikone calc is that the other characters where able to react but where confused at the speed and seemingly physic breaking speed technique.

Also, Yoruichi and Shunsui are there, who ought to be as fast as Zaraki.
 
At a glance, the problem with the Hikone calc is that the other characters where able to react
Incorrect it’s stated the only person who could react was Shuhei via predicting where Hikone was going to go, i.e. not actually reacting to his movement.


Also, Yoruichi and Shunsui are there, who ought to be as fast as Zaraki.
They aren’t, check their profiles.
 
Incorrect it’s stated the only person who could react was Shuhei via predicting where Hikone was going to go, i.e. not actually reacting to his movement.

Is stated they where slow to react because of the surprising speed and seemingly physics breaking movement, not Hikone being faster, which is why Yoruichi and Shunsui not reacting isn't incoherent.
CFYOW_C24_Stopped_time_with_his_movement_at_full_power.jpg


They aren’t, check their profiles.

They are, check the manga.
 
Is stated they where slow to react because of the surprising speed and phisics breakuing movement, not Hikone being faster, which is why Yoruichi ans Shunsui not reacting isn't incoherent.
This isn't proof that they were capable of reacting to this Hikone, which is necessary for your argument to hold. You have to prove they could react to it, which isn't derivable from this argument. Hell, "surprising speed" even supports the idea they couldn't react to the speed as that means the sheer speed surprised them, I.E, they could not react and thus the speed surprised them.
They are, check the manga.
The point arc is making is that the wiki doesn't accept they scale to Ken, if you think so, go make a CRT with evidence of that, otherwise, your argument is irrelevant.
 
Is stated they where slow to react because of the surprising speed and seemingly physics breaking movement, not Hikone being faster, which is why Yoruichi and Shunsui not reacting isn't incoherent.
because of the surprising speed
not Hikone being faster
Yoruichi and Shunsui have no scaling to Hikone.


They are, check the manga.
Cant Feat Your Own World is a novel not a manga. Hikone isn’t from the manga…
 
This isn't proof that they were capable of reacting to this Hikone, which is necessary for your argument to hold. You have to prove they could react to it, which isn't derivable from this argument. Hell, "surprising speed" even supports the idea they couldn't react to the speed as that means the sheer speed surprised them, I.E, they could not react.

They are said to witness his movement and be mesmerized, also Zaraki fights Hikone in equal terms.


The point arc is making is that the wiki doesn't accept they scale to Ken, if you think so, go make a CRT with evidence of that, otherwise, your argument is irrelevant.

Sure, but that is just the wiki being outdated.


Yoruichi and Shunsui have no scaling to Hikone.

They scale to Zaraki who scales to Hikone which connects to Shunsui and Yoruichi because Byakuya does scale to Gerard and Zaraki and he is the same tier as Tokinada and the RG which again circles back to Shunsui and Yoruichi doing better than the RG vs SRE.


Cant Feat Your Own World is a novel not a manga. Hikone isn’t from the manga…

Zaraki, Shunsui and Yoruichi are, same continuity.
 
They scale to Zaraki who scales to Hikone because Byakuya does and he is the same tier as Tokinada and RG which again circles back to Shunsui and Yoruichi doing better than the RG vs SRE.
No one in CFYOW scales to Kenpachi, he’s explicitly stated to scale above everyone there.


Zaraki, Shunsui and Yoruichi are, same continuity.
Irrelevant, just because characters are from the same story doesn’t mean they scale to each other. There’s a half year time skip from TYBW to CFYOW.


Sure, but that is just the wiki being outdated.
Go make your CFYOW Yoruichi = CFYOW Kenpachi thread then, don’t derail mine.


They are said to witness his movement and be mesmerized, also Zaraki fights Hikone in equal terms.
They’re stated completely unable to react to his breakneck speed.
 
They are said to witness his movement and be mesmerized
“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them” this is clearly language to imply that all those who were in the fight/vicinity of Hikone felt as though time was stopped. This doesn’t imply they were capable of perceiving or reacting to her. “Witnessed” just means vicinity.
Zaraki fights Hikone in equal terms.
You’re just presupposing they scale to Zaraki, which is what’s in question.
Sure, but that is just the wiki being outdated.
You still haven’t provided a convincing case, even in this thread that they scale.
 
No one in CFYOW scales to Kenpachi, he’s explicitly stated to scale above everyone there.

Not true, he is stronger than the individual alliance members, counting Shikai and Bankai, also manga disproves this too.



Irrelevant, just because characters are from the same story doesn’t mean they scale to each other. There’s a half year time skip from TYBW to CFYOW.

Relevant because they haven't changed that much in that time, because nothing says they have.


Go make your CFYOW Yoruichi = CFYOW Kenpachi thread then, don’t derail mine.

No need, Zaraki just isn't faster than Byakuya or Toshiro who link to her trough Byakuya.


They’re stated completely unable to react to his breakneck speed.

Not true, since they where able to see Hikone move and just failed to act in time because of surprise and the strangeness of his movement.
 
No need, Zaraki just isn't faster than Byakuya or Toshiro who link to her trough Byakuya.
Ah yes a blank statement with nothing to back it up.

I will wait for you to address the numerous statements of superiority that Kenpachi and Hikone have over the rest of the Kyogoku battle group.

“But they did this in the manga which happened half a year ago in verse!” Isn’t even an argument to be had.
 
“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them” this is clearly language to imply that all those who were in the fight/vicinity of Hikone felt as though time was stopped. This doesn’t imply they were capable of perceiving or reacting to her. “Witnessed” just means vicinity.

That's from their subjective point of view, the text goes on to say they witness his movements, and could describe them as beautiful.

They perceived the event but the surprise factor and weirdness of the movement slowed them.


Ah yes a blank statement with nothing to back it up.

I will wait for you to address the numerous statements of superiority that Kenpachi and Hikone have over the rest of the Kyogoku battle group.

“But they did this in the manga which happened half a year ago in verse!” Isn’t even an argument to be had.

They are stated as stronger, not faster, as proved by the very novel's powerscalling in tandem with the manga.
 
That's from their subjective point of view, the text goes on to say they witness his movements, and could describe them as beautiful.
No. The narrator was making those descriptions, not a character. There’s still no evidence they reacted or perceived him at all.
 
No. The narrator was making those descriptions, not a character. There’s still no evidence they reacted or perceived him at all.

Is right there in the text, they witnessed the feat, they could have described the feat as beautiful, they reacted late because of surprise and lack of understanding of the technique used.
 
Is right there in the text, they witnessed the feat, they could have described the feat as beautiful, they reacted late because of surprise and lack of understanding of the technique used.
"Witnessing those movements, which could have been described as beautiful" is not proof they could describe it. The statement doesn't even say they could describe it, it says it could have been described as beautiful. That's clearly from a narrator POV, not a character. The entire statement is from a narrator POV. I've already addressed your "witnessed" argument, and no defeater has been offered. There is still no convincing case they reacted Or could have reacted.
 
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"Witnessing those movements, which could have been described as beautiful" is not proof they could describe it. The statement doesn't even say they could describe it, it says it could have been described as beautiful. That's clearly from a narrator POV, not a character. The entire statement is from a narrator POV. I've already addressed your "witnessed" argument, and no defeater has been offered. There is still no convincing case they reacted.

You didn't address anything, the statement is very clear that they witnessed the feat, your counter argument was that witnessed means something else instead of what the word actually means.

“Those who witnessed the movement felt as though time was stopped around them” this is clearly language to imply that all those who were in the fight/vicinity of Hikone felt as though time was stopped. This doesn’t imply they were capable of perceiving or reacting to her. “Witnessed” just means vicinity.
 
You understand that witnessing =/= being able to react, right? You can witness someone being shot but that doesn’t mean you can react to the act of getting shot or perceive the bullet.

Sure but the text says they witnessed the movement, I could see someone shooting but not the movement of the bullet.

Indeed in Bleach they actually react faster than they actually see, because of reikaku.

This is more like seeing someone suddenly runs towards and punch their friend while you are fighting someone else, you surely could react if you where focused or expecting that to happen.

There's also that Hisagi was able to move to Aura's back, when both he and Hikone are reacting to Tokinada's command.
 
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You didn't address anything, the statement is very clear that they witnessed the feat, your counter argument was that witnessed means something else instead of what the word actually means.
It can have multiple meanings. Tf 💀. My interpretation is right because it has no contradictions, yours contradicts this statement:
They’re stated completely unable to react to his breakneck speed.
and thus is inconsistent.
 
Sure but the text says they witnessed the movement, I could see someone shooting but not the movement of the bullet.

Indeed in Bleach they actually react faster than they actually see, because of reikaku.

This is more like seeing someone suddenly runs towards and punch their friend while you are fighting someone else, you surely could react if you where focused or expecting that to happen.

There's also that Hisagi was able to move to Aura's back, when both he and Hikone are reacting to Tokinada's command.
Please stop Derailing this Crt, it isnt about Byakuya and Yoruichi and are not important.
 
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