Blackbeard Gura Gura Key Revision

[Eseseso]

OK, so currently BB's Gura-Gura key not only says that he was "confident in fighting Sengoku and Garp", but it also says that he is "comparable" in all stats to his previous key.

The first change is that, instead of saying that he is confident in fighting Sengoku/Garp, since confidence scaling in OP can be a hot topic, it should just say something along the lines of "Clashed evenly with Sengoku". Also, it was implied that Garp was a threat to Akainu, who scared BB. And BB is also an incredibly arrogant bastard, just look at his posturing while fighting Whitebeard.

The second change is that, instead of his Gura-Gura Key being "comparable" to his previous key in all stats (speed, durability, AP, etc.), it should just be stated that the 2 keys are equal in everything (besides maybe AP since IIRC the Gura Gura no Mi gave him a power boost, I mean the dude became strong enough to duke it out with Sengoku), since nothing says the 2 keys have any difference in stats outside of the Gura Gura no Mi's AP.

Edit: As @Fireld pointed out, his Yami Yami also amps his power, so his entire Pre-TS key should probably just be "High 6-A, higher with Devil Fruit Powers", as his Devil Fruits do indeed amp his power, even if they don't deserve a key that's 85% the same as the previous key.

Also, a good justification for his base pre-timeskip AP is the fact that even before getting his fruits, BB could've become a WB Commander, if he wanted to. Kudos to @Fireld for that one.

 

[Eminiteable]

"Clashed evenly with Sengoku"

When did he do this again?

 

[Eseseso]

When did he do this again?

Shit, that's anime-only.

How did I not realize that?

Honestly, now I'm not sure we even need a 2nd key for BB.

We could just have his pre timeskip self have a "higher with Gura-Gura no mi", or maybe not even have it at all.

 

[Eminiteable]

Honestly, now I'm not sure we even need a 2nd key for BB.

Yes we do.

 

[Eseseso]

Yes we do.

Why?

His stats are the exact same in both the 1st and 2nd keys outside of possibly the AP of the Gura Gura no Mi.

 

[Eminiteable]

Why?

His stats are the exact same in both the 1st and 2nd keys outside of possibly the AP of the Gura Gura no Mi.

The Gura Gura is exactly why he needs a second key.

 

[Darkvie123]

Shit, that's anime-only.

How did I not realize that?

Honestly, now I'm not sure we even need a 2nd key for BB.

We could just have his pre timeskip self have a "higher with Gura-Gura no mi", or maybe not even have it at all.

Sengoku after the war was shown with Bandages all over his body. He fought BB off screen and it was kinda implied BB did damage Sengoku? No sure but they fought off screen

 

[Eseseso]

Sengoku after the war was shown with Bandages all over his body. He fought BB off screen and it was kinda implied BB did damage Sengoku? No sure but they fought off screen

That's fair, but the other stats outside of AP (speed, durability, etc.) should all be the same as his previous key.

And for all the stats including AP, he shouldn't be "comparable" to his previous key, he should be flat out stated as equal to his previous key in everything but AP, with his AP being superior.

Or we could just say "higher with Gura Gura no Mi".

 

[Eminiteable]

"higher with Gura Gura no Mi"

Should already be on there tbh for the strongest paramecia statement + damaging sengoku.

 

[Eseseso]

Should already be on there tbh for the strongest paramecia statement + damaging sengoku.

Exactly, but there is no reason for an entirely new key when there is just 1 difference that can be slapped onto the first key.

 

[Eminiteable]

Exactly, but there is no reason for an entirely new key when there is just 1 difference that can be slapped onto the first key.

No, he should have higher for the second key. The fact he gains the gura gura alone is enough to warrant a new key.

 

[Eseseso]

No, he should have higher for the second key. The fact he gains the gura gura alone is enough to warrant a new key.

While I personally disagree with that FRA, it should at least be changed on his page that his 2 first keys are equal instead of "comparable".

In everything but AP, they're the exact same.

 

[Eseseso]

Also, a good justification for Pre-Gura Gura BB's AP (kudos to my homeboy @Fireld for bringing this to my attention) is how BB was so strong that, before he had any Devil Fruit, he was still strong enough to be a YC candidate and Ace only got it since BB declined, implying that BB's raw AP > Ace's AP.

 

[Damage3245]

Why don't we just give Blackbeard two keys for now? Pre-Gura Gura and Post-Gura Gura. He hasn't really displayed anything new Post-Timeskip to warrant a whole new Post-Timeskip key.

 

[Eminiteable]

Why don't we just give Blackbeard two keys for now? Pre-Gura Gura and Post-Gura Gura. He hasn't really displayed anything new Post-Timeskip to warrant a whole new Post-Timeskip key.

His AP section is filled with new stuff:

Multi-Continent level (Alongside his crew, he clashed against Marco and the other remnants of the Whitebeard Pirates during the timeskip and obliterated them with Marco stating that they couldn't overcome him anymore. Should have greater mastery over Whitebeard's Devil Fruit than before. Old Rayleigh believed that he wouldn't be able to defeat Blackbeard)

 

[Eseseso]

Why don't we just give Blackbeard two keys for now? Pre-Gura Gura and Post-Gura Gura. He hasn't really displayed anything new Post-Timeskip to warrant a whole new Post-Timeskip key.

He stomped Marco and is stronger than Old Rayleigh by the latter's own admission.

That's already more than the differences between Blackbeard's 2 pre-timeskip keys, hence why his first key should just be "High 6-A, higher with Gura-Gura no Mi".

 

[Darkvie123]

I disagree for Emins reasons for now. Imo it would look a better justification "higher with Gura Gura" thats just me tho unless Eseso makes better points

 

[Damage3245]

That's already more than the differences between Blackbeard's 2 pre-timeskip keys, hence why his first key should just be "High 6-A, higher with Gura-Gura no Mi".

Who's to say that Post-Gura Gura Blackbeard from Pre-Timeskip wasn't superior to Rayleigh?

 

[Fireld]

Also, a good justification for Pre-Gura Gura BB's AP (kudos to my homeboy @Fireld for bringing this to my attention) is how BB was so strong that, before he had any Devil Fruit, he was still strong enough to be a YC candidate and Ace only got it since BB declined, implying that BB's raw AP > Ace's AP.

TBF Ace mentions Teach would've been a better canditate because of having more experience(having been around in the crew long enough) rather than more power so his BB raw physicals would be relative to Ace rather than outright >.

 

[Eseseso]

Who's to say that Post-Gura Gura Blackbeard from Pre-Timeskip wasn't superior to Rayleigh?

While that's not impossible, Rayleigh flat-out said that current BB is too strong for him to beat in his old age.

TBF Ace mentions Teach would've been a better canditate because of having more experience(having been around in the crew long enough) rather than more power so his BB raw physicals would be relative to Ace rather than outright >.

Fair.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

. And BB is also an incredibly arrogant bastard, just look at his posturing while fighting Blackbeard.

??

 

[Eseseso]

??

Shit, meant WB.

 

[SlendVeny]

No, he should have higher for the second key. The fact he gains the gura gura alone is enough to warrant a new key.

We don't even do stuff with additions that small for stuff that actually boosts stats. Like, we have "higher with X number of Zenkai" on Dragon Ball characters. Having things say stuff like "Higher after obtaining X or Y," is incredibly common.

 

[Eminiteable]

We don't even do stuff with additions that small for stuff that actually boosts stats. Like, we have "higher with X number of Zenkai" on Dragon Ball characters. Having things say stuff like "Higher after obtaining X or Y," is incredibly common.

A whole new fruit isn't comparable to getting a stat amp.

 

[SlendVeny]

Like, we have "higher with X number of Zenkai" on Dragon Ball characters.

And before someone says "Umm, that's a different verse lmao," that is 100% not the point. It's not about that, it's about how we structure pages, which should not vary in rules from verse to verse.

 

[SlendVeny]

A whole new fruit isn't comparable to getting a stat amp.

I mean, what about with, say, Naruto, where we treat his KCM and synced KCM as the same key, despite being different things entirely?

 

[Eminiteable]

I mean, what about with, say, Naruto, where we treat his KCM and synced KCM as the same key, despite being different things entirely?

Not knowledgeable on the verse to know if that's comparable to what happened to BB at all.

 

[SlendVeny]

Not knowledgeable on the verse to know if that's comparable to what happened to BB at all.

Basically, he gets better stats, loses a weakness, and has tactical changes due to not having said weakness.

 

[SlendVeny]

All things considered, I support him having this second key, I just think we need to add more keys for other people.

 

[Fireld]

Not knowledgeable on the verse to know if that's comparable to what happened to BB at all.

What Ven said, Naruto's version of super sayain expect he's more new abilities. BB having to 2 keys doesn't seem that bad of an idea. I think his Pre-TS Key should have higher with DF Powers instead of just the quake fruit. I doubt his own physical strength would be enough to match the Entei's power(even if he had basic haki back then)

 

[Eseseso]

What Ven said, Naruto's version of super sayain expect he's more new abilities. BB having to 2 keys doesn't seem that bad of an idea. I think his Pre-TS Key should have higher with DF Powers instead of just the quake fruit. I doubt his own physical strength would be enough to match the Entei's power(even if he had basic haki back then)

That works!

 

[Fireld]

You might need to update the OP then.

 

[Eseseso]

You might need to update the OP then.

Done.

 

[Fireld]

You might also want to post some links there to prove your points like how Sengoku looked pre/post-BB fight, the blackhole clashing with the Entei etc.

 

[Fireld]

"Clashed evenly with Sengoku"

Shit, that's anime-only.

And change this to "Fought Sengoku" or "Harmed Sengoku".

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Why are are so many One piece characters scaling based on "confidence"? Should luffy pre wano scale to kaidou because he was confident of fighting big mom and kaidou?
To begin with i have problems with how akainu and whitebeared scales to a calc for shiki's fruit but now everyone is scaling equal to each other even when it makes no sense

 

[SlendVeny]

Why are are so many One piece characters scaling based on "confidence"? Should luffy pre wano scale to kaidou because he was confident of fighting big mom and kaidou?

Well, Luffy's been proven to be a dumb stupid idiot.

 

[Eseseso]

Why are are so many One piece characters scaling based on "confidence"? Should luffy pre wano scale to kaidou because he was confident of fighting big mom and kaidou?

Well tbh I disagree with BB being willing to fight Garp since Garp was heavily implied to be capable of killing Akainu who scared BB.

 

[Eminiteable]

Garp was heavily implied to be capable of killing Akainu

That's also confidence scaling.

 

[Eseseso]

That's also confidence scaling.

Fair, but the fact that Sengoku went out of his way to stop Garp and didn't say anything indicating that Garp was outclassed also implies that Garp was at least a threat to Akainu.