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We elaborated and addressed on why the dimensions aren't in separate Space Beyonds. There is no basis for it and is incompatible with the source material.DontTalk and Eficiente seem to make good points above.
Okay. Noted.We elaborated and addressed on why the dimensions aren't in separate Space Beyonds. There is no basis for it and is incompatible with the source material.
We also elaborated and addressed on how Holiday's statement is used.
Yes, Donttalk did say something that anyone will find okay and agree, including myself, and we were waiting for the final reply as he asked if we can take the infinite dimensions statements as accurate but he was fine with those dimensions being considered in-universe dimensions given the context. He was only unsure if "solid 2-A" for the universe can be given based of WOG, nothing much.DontTalk and Eficiente seem to make good points above.
Nope, there doesn't need to something like that where dimensions can all be seen. The idea of a reality where universes can all be seen at a set size is already something made up, and it's great that it exists in the show, but that doesn't mean that a similar place has to exist for the other dimensions as that would be made up.You are suggesting that these other dimensions exist outside The Space Beyond. This has never been suggested by the source material.
Yes. They can still be closely tied. You can't really measure being closely tied, you can have a verse where some universes are easier to travel between each other due to being closely tied with that being all the explanation and that will be fine, even if a realistic multiverse map has them randomly located across other universes, rather than close to each other or something.Dimensions like the Null Void, Ledgerdomain, and Dagon's World are closely tied to Ben's Dimension.
When the Null Void was made, what is more reasonable? That it was created nearby to Ben's Dimension or that it was created outside the Space Beyond?
With Rex's world, when trying to find a void to dump Alpha, is it more reasonable that they opened a portal to a nearby dimension that's empty or that they opened a portal from outside the Space Beyond to inside a Space beyond of a Null Void dimension of a particular Ben Universe.
The same goes for the being going to and from Legerdomain. Otherwise, Gwen would have senses that extend past the Space Beyond.
If all other dimensions were outside the space beyond, they would presumably have their own space beyond. When Dagon went out to conquer other dimensions, he would have had to leave his space beyond to come to Ben's and 99+ more dimensions with their own Space beyond.
Drilling a hole through the dimensional space-time wall to escape the null void and go back to Earth wouldn't work if they were outside the space beyond.
By Occam's razor, it is more reasonable that these different dimensions are in proximity to each other.
I would much rather ask for this things to be linked & sourced in the blog, if it needs to be said it's not reasonable at all to send people to read several threads that are each one very long.The point is that there were several evidences about why nullvoid is a part of the universe but not another another.
- anur phatus that is a in-between alternate/inter dimensional realm that is a part of the universe (clear in its own that universe contains more than one dimension) grid the nullvoid present in the unknown region of the universe with the regular space.
- Servantis while still being in the nullvoid referred nullvoid and Ben's dimension combined as a universe while saying No one in this universe or any other should bring ben Tennyson back ever nullvoid is not a another universe not in Ben 10 lore or anything but just a prison for universe worst of the worsts
- Kevin who literally knew that nullvoid is a alternate dimension and have spent half of his life in it already confirmed that whatever he was aware of is a part of the universe and thought that universe is everything. To which professor paradox said there is always far more to the reality than we imagine (referring to the multiverse)
- It cannot be another universe or part of another timestream with its own system and branches disconnected with Ben's dimension because if it was then ben and others should had a hard time finding which nullvoid branch concern s the issue of particular branch they live in and would have messed up everything, so it's just logical to say they're the part of same timeline and branching with it in its parallel together.
- legerdomain is literally stated to be a part of the universe by Gwen who was specifically searching the entire universe that includes nullvoid and legerdomain.
- bladder dimension is stated to be a part of the universe stated by rook.
- Rex dimension is simply same as of nullvoid and others as it can be reached by like device and it's not a another universe, never stated nor implied and contradictory at that to even think as dimensional disruptor can only connect in-universe dimensions.
- Dimension 12 was a part of the universe through kevin's statement who was aware of it but yet said universe is everything whatsover.
- Breach dimension is a part of the universe.
This is the summary of my upgrade for those who likely missed and no other franchise was used to get it a stand. It was accepted on its own stand. Check all the previous threads before claiming that we used MCU or something else to get it accepted.
I would much rather ask for this things to be linked & sourced in the blog, if it needs to be said it's not reasonable at all to send people to read several threads that are each one very long.
Read carefullyBen 10 Cosmology
vsbattles.fandom.com
grid to the regular space by anur system (a inter-dimensional realm)
further stated by servantis who referred Ben's dimension and nullvoid combined as a single universe, Nullvoid has never been referred as universe in the lore neither is treated as one by anyone it's just has been treated as prison, colony, extradimension
A inter-dimensional that exists between Dimensions and is a part of the known universe.
Gourmand species linked to a Trans-Spatial bladder Dimension where they store their food, Rook stated that is a part of universe wonders.
A Pandimensional realm where time stood still. Kevin despite being aware of Dimension 12 claimed that universe is everything, further confirmed by paradox who said "there is always far more to the reality than we imagine" while referring to the multiverse means, what Kevin was aware of till know is just a universe and there is realities beyond even it.
Confirmed by Gwen that it's a part of the universe.
Everyone knows it, how does it contradicts anything? I linked the scan saying so in my thread.the Null Void as an alt. dimension.
It is far away from the "Known universe" grid by the inter-dimensional realm anur system and no. I do not understand why Kevin will be considered unreliable for the things he knows and has been dealing with.It's an inconsistency, as the Null Void is away from the universe, so Kevin got that wrong.
Well, this link doesn't work.
Dimension 12 was introduced far before in the ultimate series.Kevin in AF was aware of it in OV?
Literally stated by Gwen that she searched the universe and Kevin said do it "again", this time she found Kevin car because chamcaster let her, it's headcanon she can search things beyond universe when it has been stated two times and shown that she can only search in the universe. That would require range evidence and is contradictory.Again that's not a reasonable take from that at all. She only searched for his car in the universe, when she searched in that dimension she found it. That's how finding things you lost works, you find them where you didn't look for them before.
Occam's Razer, universe contains more than one dimension and from the context it all this things has been referred as in-universe stuff. Any extraordinary or unsupported claim would require evidence to stand on.That's not a reasonable take from that at all, this wonder of the universe are this aliens that have this special ability, the dimensions they use isn't part of the universe.
Has never been to anywhere "all the time" but only nullvoid legerdomain and dimension 12. So that's the only option. Nothing here to say.We don't know which parallel worlds he meant. Before you made a point on how the Null Void was never called a universe yet if Ben refers to it as a parallel world here then that may or may not make it similar to Rex's universe.
Literally stated to be a part of the known universe tho.It exists between dimensions, no reason for it to be part of the known universe.
I do not understand. If you can make it more understandable?The dimensional disruptor's function is found similar by Ben to the Null Void gun, which amounts to how he saw it do something vaguely similar, which amounts to nothing. "A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions" is made up, nowhere does it say so. Nowhere does "in-universe dimensions" ever appear, or how the range of the dimensional disruptor is limited.
An alt. dimension is separated from other dimensions, Ben's universe is a dimension by the series' rules. Yet it's claimed that they're in the same universe. The info used and not used is selective.Everyone knows it, how does it contradicts anything? I linked the scan saying so in my thread.
It is far away from the "Known universe" grid by the inter-dimensional realm anur system and no. I do not understand why Kevin will be considered unreliable for the things he knows and has been dealing with.
is grid to the regular space by anur system (a inter-dimensional realm) confirming nullvoid to be a part of the universe
Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that Kevin knew it by then. But I can believe that he did.Dimension 12 was introduced far before in the ultimate series.
Literally stated by Gwen that she searched the universe and Kevin said do it "again", this time she found Kevin car because chamcaster let her, it's headcanon she can search things beyond universe when it has been stated two times and shown that she can only search in the universe. That would require range evidence and is contradictory.
because chamcaster let her
This is completely nonsensical, there is no "Occam's Razer" and "all this things has been referred as in-universe" here. The universe containing more than one dimension is the conclusion you grabbed in before knowing all the facts. Logic is enough evidence.Occam's Razer, universe contains more than one dimension and from the context it all this things has been referred as in-universe stuff. Any extraordinary or unsupported claim would require evidence to stand on.
Literally stated to be a part of the known universe tho.
Ben finds the dimensional disruptor to be like the Null Void gun, to have Ben say this the thing simply has to be vaguely similar. That's all, they don't need to have as much of a limited range. This is very basic.I do not understand. If you can make it more understandable?
I disagree with what you agree with, the accuracy of the numerous times this was dealt with before is challenged. I can work off all the info we have with no theories and then conclude how everything works, which just has what Kevin says there as an outlier, you need to have what you buy into already as a premise to justify everything and don't know the sheer amount of outliers it creates.Also, Kevin statement reliability and the context of the statement has been dealt before numerous times including with zamasu and that's where it was concluded that Kevin is reliable for what he was aware and has been dealing with quite alot, including nullvoid. Multiverse was never a thing nor was established before the forge of creation and so we know context, things, statements and everything.
The Space Beyond is the dimensional space outside the dimensions. If you claim that the other dimensions are outside the space beyond, then what would you call the space between and beyond the different Null Voids and Ledgerdomains? It would still be a "space beyond" those dimensions.Nope, there doesn't need to something like that where dimensions can all be seen. The idea of a reality where universes can all be seen at a set size is already something made up, and it's great that it exists in the show, but that doesn't mean that a similar place has to exist for the other dimensions as that would be made up.
What basis are you using that these dimensions are outside the multiverse and the Space Beyond? The show has never suggested such a thing. How is this the default assumption you are going with?Yes. They can still be closely tied. You can't really measure being closely tied, you can have a verse where some universes are easier to travel between each other due to being closely tied with that being all the explanation and that will be fine, even if a realistic multiverse map has them randomly located across other universes, rather than close to each other or something.
It's not a point that matters, therefore Occam's razor can't be used on it to justify things.
I don't necessarily claim that they're outside it, just that the Space Beyond isn't a space where you can see them. That is sufficient, it is we that we would assume more. I know you may think this is unreasonable, but there is no reason for that to be the case.The Space Beyond is the dimensional space outside the dimensions. If you claim that the other dimensions are outside the space beyond, then what would you call the space between and beyond the different Null Voids and Ledgerdomains? It would still be a "space beyond" those dimensions.
What basis are you using that these dimensions are outside the multiverse and the Space Beyond? The show has never suggested such a thing. How is this the default assumption you are going with?
Even Gwen has stated that Legerdomain is within the Universe.
It is not, it's your headcanon. There is no such thing as series rules or whatsover. Dimensions and realms are just spaces that can be given to any space with length, breadth, height. In fiction it's too common term. You don't have any evidence that it's universe? It's clear that nullvoid Hasn't been treated as universe but pocket dimension always. Then don't force it.An alt. dimension is separated from other dimensions, Ben's universe is a dimension by the series' rules. Yet it's claimed that they're in the same universe. The info used and not used is sel
I do not understand you or either your point out of ordinary efi.That comes out of nowhere, regular space means the Null Void's regular space, there is no such thing as an inter-dimensional realm. The Null Void's regular space is either the odd-colored space character regularly walk in and breathe in, or a different outer space that's unlike that space, and is more regular. This proves nothing. Also the least of my issues but why would this card be canon?
All the earthlings knew.Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that Kevin knew it by then. But I can believe that he did.
post the scan that she searched outside the universe when she is saying that she is searching the universe.The fact that she found the car in another dimension proves she has Interdimensional range in that, not that the dimension is part of the universe. Heck even by the cosmoligy you support she would still have Interdimensional range.
It's literally there, you just have to ignore it. All the energy cores except one was in the known universe. Take it or leave it idc.This is completely nonsensical, there is no "Occam's Razer" and "all this things has been referred as in-universe" here. The universe containing more than one dimension is the conclusion you grabbed in before knowing all the facts. Logic is enough evidence.
I do not understand.Looking into this those energy cores are things mostly in the universe, so if Max says that in the universe, he's correct, if Max says that in Anur phaetos, he's correct too, as all of them are destroyed in the universe, not mattering how the last one was destroyed outside of it. This is a meaningless thing to use as evidence when the other info we got on this place is that it's outside Ben's dimension/universe.
Well, I can flex out a knowledge here. Dimensions 12 was introduced the same time as of first introduction of captain nemesis and every earthling was aware of it.Unless I’m mistaken, Kevin was not aware of Dimension 12 before he made his “Thought the universe was everything” statement. Dimension 12 itself was never even introduced or shown to us in the franchise until Omniverse debuted the dimension.
Unless I’m mistaken, Kevin was not aware of Dimension 12 before he made his “Thought the universe was everything” statement. Dimension 12 itself was never even introduced or shown to us in the franchise until Omniverse debuted the dimension.
they mention it by name in the episodeWhat got introduced in Ultimate Alien were the aliens from Dimension 12, like Computron and his minions, which doesn’t necessarily prove the dimension of their origin was an existing concept back then before Omniverse.
they had not gone to it, but they knew about its existance in the nemesis episode, gonna look for the clip when i get homeAt the absolute most, you can argue that he, Ben and Gwen became aware of Dimension 12 in “Girl Trouble” when Gwen planned to analyze data on the robots from Dimension 12 at her house, but this was the fifth episode of Season 3 of Ultimate Alien. Meaning this happened after Kevin made his statement.
When in Ultimate Alien were they shown to be aware of Dimension 12, or having gone to it, before then?
We have a number of statements that these other dimensions are in the universe. Even the Force of Creation is in the Space Beyond. Omniverse even updated the visuals of the space beyond to show the numerous dimensions.I don't necessarily claim that they're outside it, just that the Space Beyond isn't a space where you can see them. That is sufficient, it is we that we would assume more. I know you may think this is unreasonable, but there is no reason for that to be the case.
they had not gone to it, but they knew about its existance in the nemesis episode, gonna look for the clip when i get home
MUAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA
That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly affirm that a dimension and an alt. dimension aren't in the same dimension w/o dealing all these nonsensical standards.It is not, it's your headcanon. There is no such thing as series rules or whatsover. Dimensions and realms are just spaces that can be given to any space with length, breadth, height. In fiction it's too common term. You don't have any evidence that it's universe? It's clear that nullvoid Hasn't been treated as universe but pocket dimension always. Then don't force it.
Elaborate.I do not understand you or either your point out of ordinary efi.
Well, that's vague.All the earthlings knew.
That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly know that teleporting into another dimension is Interdimensional range and that this dimension is not in the regular universe.post the scan that she searched outside the universe when she is saying that she is searching the universe.
Can't work with this.It's literally there, you just have to ignore it. All the energy cores except one was in the known universe. Take it or leave it idc.
There are 20 mcguffins across the universe, minus the last one which is in another dimension. You destroyed the last one but you don't know that, I confirm that you destroyed all the mcguffins in the universe. You don't need to find them anymore, your work is done. Doesn't mean all of them were in the universe.I do not understand.
Do we have a blog like the one I went over above?We have a number of statements that these other dimensions are in the universe. Even the Force of Creation is in the Space Beyond. Omniverse even updated the visuals of the space beyond to show the numerous dimensions.
You said Dimensions means universes from series rules, that means all pocket dimensions are universes, transspatial bladder dimension is universes. It doesn't makes sense efi. There is no such thing as Dimensions always means universes, no one care for it. We got a scan and so we standing on. You said mentioning dimensions prove it to be a universe, don't play a reverse card.That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly affirm that a dimension and an alt. dimension aren't in the same dimension w/o dealing all these nonsensical standards.
I just didn't understood the entire paragraph except you ask for it to be canon or not.Elaborate
Elaborate.Well, that's vague
As I asked, prove that she searched outside of universe, when it is clearly stated that she searched the universe "Dozens of times and again"That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly know that teleporting into another dimension is Interdimensional range and that this dimension is not in the regular universe
?Can't work with this
Who was the what now? Literally stated that "they destroyed every core in the known universe" which includes anur system. Stated the last one exist outside the known universe far away. It's as simple as that, anur system is inside the universe.There are 20 mcguffins across the universe, minus the last one which is in another dimension. You destroyed the last one but you don't know that, I confirm that you destroyed all the mcguffins in the universe. You don't need to find them anymore, your work is done. Doesn't mean all of them were in the universe.
Because this is the time they dealt with Dimension 12 and all their robots sent by captain nemesis from dimension 12, literally the portal was in front of Kevin seeing robots coming out of Dimension 12. Captain nemesis story is famous enough and something that even normal average guy knows and Kevin don't know doesn't really match up with how much Kevin has been really shown to be aware of the universe and things in it. Although starting reasons itself talks.Why would Kevin know this dimension?
Yeah, have been saying the Samething.just to ad a point about LedgerDomain, in the scene gwen said that she looked the entire universe trying to find the car, kevin asked for her to "do it again" so by logic she should be looking the universe, so ledgerdomain is considered part of the universe
We have the following statements and examples of these dimensions being inside the Space Beyond and near Ben's Dimension.Do we have a blog like the one I went over above?
What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?From the comic, Doctor holiday statement was supported by Ben as well while running away in hurry, ben said to Rex, There are millions of dimensions, how did you find this earth?
The same statement and reason for why should Rex never be able to reach Ben's dimension given by Doctor holiday but just amount of dimensions mentioned is different in the comic and yes it's secondary canon as has been accepted already. From here it was accepted that universe has "2B, possibly 2A" as Ben could be throwing a random number to show how big the universe is (has been done in alot of fiction, such as crises of infinite earth's) as he was in too hurry unlike Doctor holiday who gave that statement calmly and based off calculation.
But later on Universe is infinite statement came from WOG as universe is ben 10 is more like a multiverse of dimensions and everytime universe has been mentioned in the series it had included the dimensions inside it considered together.
This is where we get that solid 2A for the universe.
What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?
Uh, this is the statement I am specifically referring to, all other statements are about multiverse yes.
Uh, yes, he is referring to universe.I don't think is referring to dimensions meaning universes.
In the context of how the word "universe" has been used in Omniverse (the series he worked on), it's referring to the collection of dimensions, including the Null Void Legerdomain, etc.I don't think is referring to dimensions meaning universes.
Just to clarify, are you fine with the previous thread agreement of "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" dimensions?What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?
Uh, this is the statement I am specifically referring to, all other statements are about multiverse yes.
Yeah that is true . İ think Author said universe sizeThanks for the quick clarification, but there’s a slight problem.
Kevin isn’t in this conversation with Ben and Capt. Nemesis. This clip proves Ben was made aware of it at the time.
Assuming this is acceptable, why would this mean infinite universes rather than the universe being infinite sized?
Per the author's usage of the word in omniverse, the use of universe is in reference to the collection of dimensions.Yeah that is true . İ think Author said universe size
Where does this come from?Per the author's usage of the word in omniverse