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Ben 10 Cosmology donwgrade to 6D/7D

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OMNIVERSAL-KING said:
Why people always use same arguments against hyperversal Ben 10?
Disagree fra
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I have no idea

cd084af14baf81b56c15ab2c04ff2f448d816868_00.gif
 
RigelBR7 said:
You are committing the fallacy of ignorance. I have already mentioned that in AF and UAF the citations of dimensions refer to quantum gravity, string theory and bosonic strings. Quantum physics in general, as referenced in Omniverse. And there needs to be a combination of geometric axes perpendicular and orthogonal to each other successively... Infinitely uncountable dimensions superior to each other, which is not referenced and evidenced in the Najilians episode, and at no other time. And they do not scale to the rest of cosmology because there are many contradictions and retcons that make it impossible to apply these 26 dimensions, even if they were in fact superior. There is no evidence that the 26D dimensions are in space beyond the Omniverse, and they don't even mention the multiverse and the like in the episode itself. Besides being stuck in the timestream. Is there a third hyperline beyond the timestream and space beyond by any chance?? Even to reach the Forge of Creation, all that is needed is a map of space-time that only extends across 17 dimensions, no 26D. In addition to Contumélia and White Space refuting this hierarchy of dimensions.As you can see there are several contradictions and there is no way to add or relate these dimensions. At least not unless you use the fallacy of association and hasty generalization to wank the verse without solid, direct evidence.
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Fallacy this fallacy that. Can you just stop please and actually attack dudes arguments? Not only are you spamming it but news flash even if an argument contains a fallacy it doesn't make it wrong. He can simply call a fallacy fallacy. Normally I'd explain what a "fallacy fallacy" is but you seem to be the expert so you should know
 
Robo432343 said:
the extends in every directions / in all realities' statement has not really been properly addressed by the OP
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Honestly speaking, in my opinion, this is the least valid evidence. "In every direction" doesn't have a specific number attached to it, just means that it goes in every direction possible. That means, it can just fill an entire 3 or 4D space, just as well as 100D space. To simply put that statement is to vague to prove anything by itself.

Either way, I don't really care about BEn 10 cosmology atm, fix the broken profiles instead.
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Honestly speaking, in my opinion, this is the least valid evidence. "In every direction" doesn't have a specific number attached to it, just means that it goes in every direction possible. That means, it can just fill an entire 3 or 4D space, just as well as 100D space. To simply put that statement is to vague to prove anything by itself.
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Yeah, it's only support evidence, also through every reality should mean that it extends through the 26 dimensions because they exists inside the reality itself and albedo mentions "In every direction, Through every reality"

Dark_Soul20189 said:
Either way, I don't really care about BEn 10 cosmology atm, fix the broken profiles instead.
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Too much threads
 
karo_senpaii said:
Fallacy this fallacy that. Can you just stop please and actually attack dudes arguments? Not only are you spamming it but news flash even if an argument contains a fallacy it doesn't make it wrong. He can simply call a fallacy fallacy. Normally I'd explain what a "fallacy fallacy" is but you seem to be the expert so you should kn
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The only ones repeating the same arguments and fallacies here are them, not me. I didn't attack anyone personally, just the arguments. I have already deconstructed their fallacies and erroneous arguments based on little evidence, and I will not repeat the same thing over and over again. I've already said that there is no evidence and the only arguments for upgrades are made with association and false analogy. No solid arguments or evidence that connects. In addition to being contradictory.
 
DarkMatterEnergy254 said:
Disagree with everything


Yeah, that's not really an anti-feat, the only reason why a 3D being can't perceive a higher dimension is because that dimension extends in another direction that a 3D being can't, also this isn't an anti-feat in this wiki

Proof



Not really, they're not, let's get back to what the Naljian says

Proof

Naljian: You only perceive 3 dimensions, is that right?

Ben: Yeah? How many are there?

Naljian: Only 26 that matter

This means that there are more than 26, but only 26 are important for some reason, this already rules out them talking about bosonic string theory



Not really, the naljian is already talking about dimensionality, how do I know that? Well, listening tl what they say

Naljian: You only perceive 3 dimensions, is that right?

Ben: Yeah? How many are there?

Naljian: Only 26 that matter

What does perceive means?

One of the meanings is this one "to see something or someone, or to notice something that is obvious"

Saying that Ben only perceives 3 dimensions is a clearly reference to three-dimensional, since ben is a human and our universe is three-dimensional, there is no way that they are talking about compacted dimensions since she literally mentions that ben perceives 3 spatial dimensions and that there are only 26 that matter, also I wouldn't use albedo mention about the eight dimensions as a real proof, since he wasn't talking seriously when he said that because in that moment Gwen and kevin found out he wasn't the real Ben, and they were interrogating him, also when albedo mentions those 8 dimensions is because ben asked him about how he could turn off the Omnitrix and that's when albedo mentioned the 8 dimensions thing, also something that is mentioned in this episode is that Ben gets a twitch when he lies, and albedo got one when he mentioned the 8 dimensions, so yeah he was literally liying



I showed above that they aren't and the fact that in Ben 10 exist MWI doesn't make them compacted by default



That doesn't really matter, Alien Force and Omniverse exists in the same continuity, in Alien Force introduces they mentioned 26 dimensions, directly comparing them to the already known 3 dimensions and in Omniverse says the omniversal force extends in all directions, through every reality, meaning every direction those 26 axes extend must be infinite in size, unless you can proof those 26 dimensions doesn't exist inside the Omniverse, which wouldn't make any sense



So if those 26 dimensions "aren't inside the Omniverse" where are they suppose to be? Do you even have any proof that the 26 dimensions doesn't exist inside the entire Omniverse? Because if you don't and your only argument is that "those dimensions doesn't exists inside the entire Omniverse because they weren't mentioned after that episode" I could accept this argument if you mean that they aren't inside the Universe, but the entire Omniverse? You'll need more proof than that



And? It's not like that makes them stop existing or debunk anything at all


yeah like I said, disagree
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Yeah I disagree with whole CRT FRA
 
LifeRiderthe1 said:
I mean i would think its a association fallacy to assume bosonic.

if you would like show the class where ben 10 talks about the following so we can understand where you getting the rest of bosonic from would be helpful.
"... ... a duality under which the couplingconstant of a quantum theory changes nontrivially, including thecase of weak-strong duality. ... In compactifiedtheories, theterm S-duality is limited to those dualities that leave the radiiinvariant, up to an overall coupling-dependent rescaling ...S-duality... ... a duality in string theory, usually ina toroidally compactified theory, that leaves the couplingconstant invariant up to a radius-dependent rescaling andtherefore holds at each order of string perturbation theory. Mostnotable is R --> a' / R duality, which relates string theoriescompactified on large and small tori byinterchanging winding andKaluza-Klein states. ...T-duality... ... any of the dualities of a stringtheory ... This includes the S-dualities and T-dualities, but incontrast to these includes also transformations that mix theradiiand couplings. ..."."
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Sending large texts and doing catechism won't help you here.
You probably don't even know how basic geometry and dimensionality works and how it scales here. I'm waiting for you to definitively prove that there are 26 geometric axes that are orthogonal and perpendicular to each other. The dimensions are in the same space time rolled up in themselves and are not superior for the love of God stop using this.
LifeRiderthe1 said:
Are you also going to claim that the 26 dimensions are above the 17 of the Infinity Map yes because 26D is > 17D even in bosonic which you love yo keep citing lol.
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And so you assume that 26D is above the space beyond and the Forge of Creation, with the Forge being the top. Don't you see how this is irrelevant and contradictory. If they wanted to add the 26 dimensions they would have applied it, but they didn't.They didn't include it because it was just referencing bosonic string theory, nothing more.
LifeRiderthe1 said:
"And you still haven't proven that the 26 bosonic dimensions are superior and transcendent," idk what that even means in for bosonic. A decent diagram for this thread like this should be fine to use: all a bit i don't like to use secondary sources but its what comes to mind atm. but you've not done anything to stop supergravity from bein 26D, or the fact bosonic needing 26D to work in the first place so like kinda contradictory on your part. "Literally the two quotes I applied are references to quantum physics and dimensions of quantum gravity" which quantum gravity is mentioned a told of one time in this simple paper i repulled up "...[ with respect to ]... Even if27 dimensional flat space, M27, is a stable vacuum, one might ask what is the "ground state" of the theory at finite string coupling, or finite compactification size? Tachyon condensation is not likely to lead back to M27, and there is probably nostable minimum of the tachyon potential in 26 dimensions ...Instead, we believe . It is an old idea that quantum gravity may have an essentially topological phase with no metric. We have argued that the tachyon instability is related to nucleation of "bubbles of nothing" which is certainly reminiscent of zero metric." Not like its really relevant imo cause of supergravity.
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Same thing as the first text. "n-dimensional" or things like that are not always referencing a combination of geometric axes, nor are dimensions transcendent to each other. Stop using these things to level up, not even in Ben 10 is all this content used.
LifeRiderthe1 said:
Nothing you've sent has really any relation to bosonic string theory though you are just sending irrelevant stuff, Cool verse mentions quantum mechanics and string theory doesn't mean the verse runs off them. Same reason our Universe doesn't run off string theory when a scientist says its true.
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They are just references. And I say the same to you, regarding the question of higher dimensions. It is irrelevant.
LifeRiderthe1 said:
Thats just argumentum ad verecundiam and Appeal to Intuition, Also thats like saying a 4D cube isn't 4D. if I have a 26D cube it should be 26D bosonic has to still scale to 26 dimensional in any direction you really put it in. The dimensions being compactified is because of that machine in france anyways would make them appear compactified if bosonic was actually true then they wouldn't be compactified. You then run into another issue of what do you do about the 26D particles? just cope they don't exist just to fit a narrative? sounds kinda dumb if you running with bosonic just do what bosonic says but you keep going against what bosonic says. i think you can clearly scale bosonic to said tier on here would compactified bosonic be 26D? not entirely sure but it should still have 26D supergravity which kinda in retrospect is like
"I agree ben 10 has 26D gravity hax but imma dismiss all notions of cosmology beyond 6D-7D-8D etc because it doesn't do this other super specific way to measure dimensionality"
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As I mentioned earlier, you cannot prove that they are orthogonal and perpendicular geometric axes to each other and that these dimensions are transcendental, because they simply are not. In bosonic string theory, the meaning and elaboration of these dimensions is completely different from those that can actually be used to perform tiering here in the system.
 
DarkMatterEnergy254 said:
Disagree with everything


Yeah, that's not really an anti-feat, the only reason why a 3D being can't perceive a higher dimension is because that dimension extends in another direction that a 3D being can't, also this isn't an anti-feat in this wiki

Proof



Not really, they're not, let's get back to what the Naljian says

Proof

Naljian: You only perceive 3 dimensions, is that right?

Ben: Yeah? How many are there?

Naljian: Only 26 that matter

This means that there are more than 26, but only 26 are important for some reason, this already rules out them talking about bosonic string theory



Not really, the naljian is already talking about dimensionality, how do I know that? Well, listening tl what they say

Naljian: You only perceive 3 dimensions, is that right?

Ben: Yeah? How many are there?

Naljian: Only 26 that matter

What does perceive means?

One of the meanings is this one "to see something or someone, or to notice something that is obvious"

Saying that Ben only perceives 3 dimensions is a clearly reference to three-dimensional, since ben is a human and our universe is three-dimensional, there is no way that they are talking about compacted dimensions since she literally mentions that ben perceives 3 spatial dimensions and that there are only 26 that matter, also I wouldn't use albedo mention about the eight dimensions as a real proof, since he wasn't talking seriously when he said that because in that moment Gwen and kevin found out he wasn't the real Ben, and they were interrogating him, also when albedo mentions those 8 dimensions is because ben asked him about how he could turn off the Omnitrix and that's when albedo mentioned the 8 dimensions thing, also something that is mentioned in this episode is that Ben gets a twitch when he lies, and albedo got one when he mentioned the 8 dimensions, so yeah he was literally liying



I showed above that they aren't and the fact that in Ben 10 exist MWI doesn't make them compacted by default



That doesn't really matter, Alien Force and Omniverse exists in the same continuity, in Alien Force introduces they mentioned 26 dimensions, directly comparing them to the already known 3 dimensions and in Omniverse says the omniversal force extends in all directions, through every reality, meaning every direction those 26 axes extend must be infinite in size, unless you can proof those 26 dimensions doesn't exist inside the Omniverse, which wouldn't make any sense



So if those 26 dimensions "aren't inside the Omniverse" where are they suppose to be? Do you even have any proof that the 26 dimensions doesn't exist inside the entire Omniverse? Because if you don't and your only argument is that "those dimensions doesn't exists inside the entire Omniverse because they weren't mentioned after that episode" I could accept this argument if you mean that they aren't inside the Universe, but the entire Omniverse? You'll need more proof than that



And? It's not like that makes them stop existing or debunk anything at all


yeah like I said, disagree
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As I have already mentioned here, the dimensions of bosonic strings can extend endlessly. The scene citing only 26 as relevant only solidifies what I have highlighted. And anyway, dimensions and multiverse here are worked on and based on quantum physics and string theory, as Paradox himself mentions in Omniverse. No superiority between dimensions.

And the only person who has to prove that the "26 higher dimensions" are in the Omniverse is you, not me. I have already shown that they are not cited, presented, or scaled and applied in cosmology in a relevant way, much less in a way that is valid for upgrade. Extending in all directions is not referencing geometric axes and placing the 26 dimensions within this context is a fallacy.I already mentioned that there are no relationships here, you took all the context out of the quote just to make it better. This is the fallacy of association, probability and hasty generalization. Repeating the same thing over and over in different ways does not support your arguments and is just another fallacy.
 
AigerTheKing said:
This is honestly so bad. "Guy affects a Space Time Continuum, but it isn't Universal+ bc him « affecting the 4 Dimensional Space » was never explicitly mentionned" is the argument the OP is trying to bring
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Straw man fallacy and false analogy. These are not even the same thing we are discussing here.
 
RigelBR7 said:
Straw man fallacy and false analogy. These are not even the same thing we are discussing here.
Click to expand...
Don't throw fallacies when you don't know how to use them
The sentence itself mentions that the Omniversal Force extends omnidirectionally through all universes, multiverses, timestream and space beyond, at most. A divine energy that encompasses the entire Omniverse, but without any relation to higher dimensions or perpendicular / orthogonal geometric axes that spread throughout the Omniverse, this is not even referenced as dimensions of space-time, but only realities, multiverses and the Omniverse itself.
Click to expand...
 
RigelBR7 said:
I came here to clarify some erroneous quotes and associations in the cosmology of Ben 10 and the "higher dimensions".

First, I want to point out that the "26 dimensions" discussed in cosmology do not have sufficient evidence to be superior, and the scene used in question is counterintuitive.

The first point here is when the Cosmic Mother quotes 'you are a primitive species that perceives only 3 dimensions' and also quotes that 'only 26 are relevant' and finally, quotes that 'with time, the human species would discover and perceive' such dimensions.

When you interpret the scene and the text, you realize that these dimensions being truly superior in a geometric system is completely erroneous and counterintuitive, since it is impossible for 3D beings to perceive, see or evolve to these "higher dimensions", even with technology or biotechnology or anything like that. It is also not shown how this is possible.

It is also worth mentioning that this was a unique episode that was never referenced again in the series except in interviews, and clearly these "26 dimensions" are just referencing the theory of bosonic strings — which extend across 26 dimensions, in addition to the 3 of space that we know, but all of them being compacted and recurved, which can be perceived by the different vibrations of the tiny strings, Quantum particles, different frequencies and complex manifolds.

In fact, there is a superiority here, but it is only a superiority of size and form compared to the universe, which would crush our reality if they were not compacted. These dimensions are not orthogonal and perpendicular to the 3 geometric axes of space, its just additional cosmological dimensions, and this is also not referenced in this episode here. The 26 dimensions are compacted dimensions larger than our reality, and are non-euclidean, they do not follow common euclidean geometry, but still, nothing four-dimensional or above combined axes of geometry, since they are in the same 4D space-time reality that extends parallel to reality, and are not transcendent to each other. These dimensions are similar to the ones Albedo mentions when talking about the Omnitrix, when he references the quantum-gravitational octo-dimension.

Plus, these dimensions are also all related to the MWI featured in Ben 10.

The second point here is when you relate the Omniversal Force, which 'extends in every directions / in all realities' “with axes of geometric space, with the 26 dimensions of the Najilians, and with the Space Beyond.”

Here we are clearly seeing a Association Fallacy.

and

A Hasty Generalization Fallacy.

Because you correlated these two scenes that are not even in the same series and no have more content and similarity, no other evidence that connects these two scenes, and were also associated in a biased way to give an upgrade based on this correlation. The two scenes are not even have similar content.

The sentence itself mentions that the Omniversal Force extends omnidirectionally through all universes, multiverses, timestream and space beyond, at most. A divine energy that encompasses the entire Omniverse, but without any relation to higher dimensions or perpendicular / orthogonal geometric axes that spread throughout the Omniverse, this is not even referenced as dimensions of space-time, but only realities, multiverses and the Omniverse itself.

Even in AF, these dimensions are not mentioned in the multiverse, nor in the timestream or in the Space Beyond. They are irrelevant to cosmology, and not even in Omniverse are they referenced.In fact, the only thing above the timestream is Contumelia, being 5D, the White Void, and the Space Beyond that separates all realities in the Omniverse. Finally, there is the Forge of Creation which would be 6D / 7D at its maximum. No 25D/26D/27D or
anything close to that.

Agree: @TheOrangeGuy09 @Setsuna_tenma @Wikisource

Neutral: @Robo432343 @Arceus0x

Disagree: @Celestial_Scaler25 @Firestorm808
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This doesnt attack any of the main points as you commit one of the fallacies you named
 
We got fallacy man before GTA 6

The scan is very clear. There are many sci-fi verse that can create some tool and reaching higher dimension. There are no explicit or implicit proof in verse if this dimension are compactification dimension, it just your assumption because it say 26. Also i dont see you brought some scan from the verse it self to support your assumption argument

Disagree with this, too many assumption less scan or proof
 
RigelBR7 said:
As I have already mentioned here, the dimensions of bosonic strings can extend endlessly. The scene citing only 26 as relevant only solidifies what I have highlighted. And anyway, dimensions and multiverse here are worked on and based on quantum physics and string theory, as Paradox himself mentions in Omniverse. No superiority between dimensions.
Click to expand...

No because there are actually more than just 26, if they were only 26 the naljian would only say that there are 26 when Ben asked her instead of "26 that matter" impliying that there are more

RigelBR7 said:
And the only person who has to prove that the "26 higher dimensions" are in the Omniverse is you, not me.
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No, you are trying to debunk this, you need to proof that this dimensions aren't inside the entire Omniverse/Existence, it wouldn't make any sense that they weren't inside the entire existence unless you can proof that for some weird reason those dimensions are outside the entire omniverse, something that you don't have proof about it

RigelBR7 said:
I have already shown that they are not cited, presented, or scaled and applied in cosmology in a relevant way
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Ben literally asked how many spatial dimensions are, saying that "is not relevant" doesn't make any sense

RigelBR7 said:
, much less in a way that is valid for upgrade. Extending in all directions is not referencing geometric axes and placing the 26 dimensions within this context is a fallacy.
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Yeah because albedo talking about how Omniveral Force extends through all existence is not referencing dimensions that are inside the cosmology, it doesn't make any sense

RigelBR7 said:
I already mentioned that there are no relationships here
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"In every direction, Through every reality" If you say so

RigelBR7 said:
you took all the context out of the quote just to make it better.
Click to expand...

That's really funny because you are doing the same thing, saying that the 26 dimensions are from the bosonic string theory even when there are more than only 26

RigelBR7 said:
This is the fallacy of association, probability and hasty generalization. Repeating the same thing over and over in different ways does not support your arguments and is just another fallacy.
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Yeah? And you are doing Burden of proof fallacy, saying that I need to give you proofs that the dimensions exists inside the Omniverse when you are suppose to explain why they aren't and most important with real proofs about it, you like to talk about that we are using fallacies but you are doing the same thing
 
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