Ben 10 Cosmology Downgrades & Other Things (Yes, this is happening again)

[Antvasima]

DontTalk and Eficiente seem to make good points above.

 

[Firestorm808]

DontTalk and Eficiente seem to make good points above.

We elaborated and addressed on why the dimensions aren't in separate Space Beyonds. There is no basis for it and is incompatible with the source material.

We also elaborated and addressed on how Holiday's statement is used.

 

[Antvasima]

We elaborated and addressed on why the dimensions aren't in separate Space Beyonds. There is no basis for it and is incompatible with the source material.

We also elaborated and addressed on how Holiday's statement is used.

Okay. Noted.

@DontTalkDT @Eficiente

What do you think?

 

[Reiner04]

DontTalk and Eficiente seem to make good points above.

Yes, Donttalk did say something that anyone will find okay and agree, including myself, and we were waiting for the final reply as he asked if we can take the infinite dimensions statements as accurate but he was fine with those dimensions being considered in-universe dimensions given the context. He was only unsure if "solid 2-A" for the universe can be given based of WOG, nothing much.

But efi seems to go way far with the entire thing, that not even zamasu and OP claimed (both admits that dimensions being inside universe is sufficient and solid and it was accepted by 6 staff members when efi rejected it in the previous thread, he just still disagree) that the universe doesn't contains any dimension when anur system itself screaming I am alternate dimension. Just as Firestorm said, what he is suggesting is contradictory to the source material and extraordinary to even claim.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It seems best to wait for some further input from them though.

 

[Eficiente]

You are suggesting that these other dimensions exist outside The Space Beyond. This has never been suggested by the source material.

Nope, there doesn't need to something like that where dimensions can all be seen. The idea of a reality where universes can all be seen at a set size is already something made up, and it's great that it exists in the show, but that doesn't mean that a similar place has to exist for the other dimensions as that would be made up.

Dimensions like the Null Void, Ledgerdomain, and Dagon's World are closely tied to Ben's Dimension.

When the Null Void was made, what is more reasonable? That it was created nearby to Ben's Dimension or that it was created outside the Space Beyond?

With Rex's world, when trying to find a void to dump Alpha, is it more reasonable that they opened a portal to a nearby dimension that's empty or that they opened a portal from outside the Space Beyond to inside a Space beyond of a Null Void dimension of a particular Ben Universe.

The same goes for the being going to and from Legerdomain. Otherwise, Gwen would have senses that extend past the Space Beyond.

If all other dimensions were outside the space beyond, they would presumably have their own space beyond. When Dagon went out to conquer other dimensions, he would have had to leave his space beyond to come to Ben's and 99+ more dimensions with their own Space beyond.

Drilling a hole through the dimensional space-time wall to escape the null void and go back to Earth wouldn't work if they were outside the space beyond.

By Occam's razor, it is more reasonable that these different dimensions are in proximity to each other.

Yes. They can still be closely tied. You can't really measure being closely tied, you can have a verse where some universes are easier to travel between each other due to being closely tied with that being all the explanation and that will be fine, even if a realistic multiverse map has them randomly located across other universes, rather than close to each other or something.

It's not a point that matters, therefore Occam's razor can't be used on it to justify things.

The point is that there were several evidences about why nullvoid is a part of the universe but not another another.

• anur phatus that is a in-between alternate/inter dimensional realm that is a part of the universe (clear in its own that universe contains more than one dimension) grid the nullvoid present in the unknown region of the universe with the regular space.
• Servantis while still being in the nullvoid referred nullvoid and Ben's dimension combined as a universe while saying No one in this universe or any other should bring ben Tennyson back ever nullvoid is not a another universe not in Ben 10 lore or anything but just a prison for universe worst of the worsts
• Kevin who literally knew that nullvoid is a alternate dimension and have spent half of his life in it already confirmed that whatever he was aware of is a part of the universe and thought that universe is everything. To which professor paradox said there is always far more to the reality than we imagine (referring to the multiverse)
• It cannot be another universe or part of another timestream with its own system and branches disconnected with Ben's dimension because if it was then ben and others should had a hard time finding which nullvoid branch concern s the issue of particular branch they live in and would have messed up everything, so it's just logical to say they're the part of same timeline and branching with it in its parallel together.
• legerdomain is literally stated to be a part of the universe by Gwen who was specifically searching the entire universe that includes nullvoid and legerdomain.
• bladder dimension is stated to be a part of the universe stated by rook.
• Rex dimension is simply same as of nullvoid and others as it can be reached by like device and it's not a another universe, never stated nor implied and contradictory at that to even think as dimensional disruptor can only connect in-universe dimensions.
• Dimension 12 was a part of the universe through kevin's statement who was aware of it but yet said universe is everything whatsover.
• Breach dimension is a part of the universe.

This is the summary of my upgrade for those who likely missed and no other franchise was used to get it a stand. It was accepted on its own stand. Check all the previous threads before claiming that we used MCU or something else to get it accepted.

I would much rather ask for this things to be linked & sourced in the blog, if it needs to be said it's not reasonable at all to send people to read several threads that are each one very long.

I saw no evidence that the dimensional disruptor can only connect in-universe dimensions.

 

[Reiner04]

I would much rather ask for this things to be linked & sourced in the blog, if it needs to be said it's not reasonable at all to send people to read several threads that are each one very long.

Ben 10 Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

Read carefully

 

[Reiner04]

@Eficiente this is for the universe part and i cannot much write down each things there were in seprate threads but I wrote down what's i found important enough and linked the scans.

 

[Eficiente]

Ben 10 Cosmology

vsbattles.fandom.com

Read carefully

contains infinite number of dimensions

No reason that she refers to the universe rather than the multiverse. Also it refers to Ben's universe as a dimension even though right below you have the Null Void as an alt. dimension.

grid to the regular space by anur system (a inter-dimensional realm)

Well, this link doesn't work.

kevin who despite living half of his life in nullvoid and knowing that it's a alternate dimension, said that universe is everything. Further confirmed by paradox who referred multiverse as "more" bigger reality than Kevin imagines

There are 2 ways to take this. 1) It's an inconsistency, as the Null Void is away from the universe, so Kevin got that wrong. 2) Due to being a pocket dimenison, Kevin thinks it to be inside the universe. Maybe it being away and inside the universe are accurate in different ways.

further stated by servantis who referred Ben's dimension and nullvoid combined as a single universe, Nullvoid has never been referred as universe in the lore neither is treated as one by anyone it's just has been treated as prison, colony, extradimension

He is calling the Null Void a universe, it doesn't matter how it's the first time. Similar to it, you do take in dimension and universe to refer to Ben's universe, you should have no issue with this alt. dimension being called a universe too.

A inter-dimensional that exists between Dimensions and is a part of the known universe.

It exists between dimensions, no reason for it to be part of the known universe.

Gourmand species linked to a Trans-Spatial bladder Dimension where they store their food, Rook stated that is a part of universe wonders.

That's not a reasonable take from that at all, this wonder of the universe are this aliens that have this special ability, the dimensions they use isn't part of the universe.

A Pandimensional realm where time stood still. Kevin despite being aware of Dimension 12 claimed that universe is everything, further confirmed by paradox who said "there is always far more to the reality than we imagine" while referring to the multiverse means, what Kevin was aware of till know is just a universe and there is realities beyond even it.

Kevin in AF was aware of it in OV? Again Kevin was wrong in that same scene.

Confirmed by Gwen that it's a part of the universe.

Again that's not a reasonable take from that at all. She only searched for his car in the universe, when she searched in that dimension she found it. That's how finding things you lost works, you find them where you didn't look for them before.

Ben compared this Dimension with the likes of nullvoid, legerdomain and nullvoid which are in-universe Dimensions in Ben 10

We don't know which parallel worlds he meant. Before you made a point on how the Null Void was never called a universe yet if Ben refers to it as a parallel world here then that may or may not make it similar to Rex's universe. Aside from assuming which dimensions he meant, "which are in-universe Dimensions in Ben 10" is not even something from the link and so you have no reason to say it.

Rex Dimension and Ben's Dimension can be connected via Dimensional disruptor whose functioning is same as of nullvoid gun, A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions

Part of this is made up. The dimensional disruptor's function is found similar by Ben to the Null Void gun, which amounts to how he saw it do something vaguely similar, which amounts to nothing. "A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions" is made up, nowhere does it say so. Nowhere does "in-universe dimensions" ever appear, or how the range of the dimensional disruptor is limited.

 

[Reiner04]

the Null Void as an alt. dimension.

Everyone knows it, how does it contradicts anything? I linked the scan saying so in my thread.

It's an inconsistency, as the Null Void is away from the universe, so Kevin got that wrong.

It is far away from the "Known universe" grid by the inter-dimensional realm anur system and no. I do not understand why Kevin will be considered unreliable for the things he knows and has been dealing with.

Well, this link doesn't work.

Kevin in AF was aware of it in OV?

Dimension 12 was introduced far before in the ultimate series.

Again that's not a reasonable take from that at all. She only searched for his car in the universe, when she searched in that dimension she found it. That's how finding things you lost works, you find them where you didn't look for them before.

Literally stated by Gwen that she searched the universe and Kevin said do it "again", this time she found Kevin car because chamcaster let her, it's headcanon she can search things beyond universe when it has been stated two times and shown that she can only search in the universe. That would require range evidence and is contradictory.

That's not a reasonable take from that at all, this wonder of the universe are this aliens that have this special ability, the dimensions they use isn't part of the universe.

Occam's Razer, universe contains more than one dimension and from the context it all this things has been referred as in-universe stuff. Any extraordinary or unsupported claim would require evidence to stand on.

We don't know which parallel worlds he meant. Before you made a point on how the Null Void was never called a universe yet if Ben refers to it as a parallel world here then that may or may not make it similar to Rex's universe.

Has never been to anywhere "all the time" but only nullvoid legerdomain and dimension 12. So that's the only option. Nothing here to say.

It exists between dimensions, no reason for it to be part of the known universe.

Literally stated to be a part of the known universe tho.

The dimensional disruptor's function is found similar by Ben to the Null Void gun, which amounts to how he saw it do something vaguely similar, which amounts to nothing. "A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions" is made up, nowhere does it say so. Nowhere does "in-universe dimensions" ever appear, or how the range of the dimensional disruptor is limited.

I do not understand. If you can make it more understandable?

 

[Reiner04]

Also, Kevin statement reliability and the context of the statement has been dealt before numerous times including with zamasu and that's where it was concluded that Kevin is reliable for what he was aware and has been dealing with quite alot, including nullvoid. Multiverse was never a thing nor was established before the forge of creation and so we know context, things, statements and everything.

 

[Eficiente]

Everyone knows it, how does it contradicts anything? I linked the scan saying so in my thread.

An alt. dimension is separated from other dimensions, Ben's universe is a dimension by the series' rules. Yet it's claimed that they're in the same universe. The info used and not used is selective.

It is far away from the "Known universe" grid by the inter-dimensional realm anur system and no. I do not understand why Kevin will be considered unreliable for the things he knows and has been dealing with.

is grid to the regular space by anur system (a inter-dimensional realm) confirming nullvoid to be a part of the universe

That comes out of nowhere, regular space means the Null Void's regular space, there is no such thing as an inter-dimensional realm. The Null Void's regular space is either the odd-colored space character regularly walk in and breathe in, or a different outer space that's unlike that space, and is more regular. This proves nothing. Also the least of my issues but why would this card be canon?

Dimension 12 was introduced far before in the ultimate series.

Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that Kevin knew it by then. But I can believe that he did.

Literally stated by Gwen that she searched the universe and Kevin said do it "again", this time she found Kevin car because chamcaster let her, it's headcanon she can search things beyond universe when it has been stated two times and shown that she can only search in the universe. That would require range evidence and is contradictory.

because chamcaster let her

Is this a thing or you just say it?

The fact that she found the car in another dimension proves she has Interdimensional range in that, not that the dimension is part of the universe. Heck even by the cosmoligy you support she would still have Interdimensional range.

Occam's Razer, universe contains more than one dimension and from the context it all this things has been referred as in-universe stuff. Any extraordinary or unsupported claim would require evidence to stand on.

This is completely nonsensical, there is no "Occam's Razer" and "all this things has been referred as in-universe" here. The universe containing more than one dimension is the conclusion you grabbed in before knowing all the facts. Logic is enough evidence.

Literally stated to be a part of the known universe tho.

Looking into this those energy cores are things mostly in the universe, so if Max says that in the universe, he's correct, if Max says that in Anur phaetos, he's correct too, as all of them are destroyed in the universe, not mattering how the last one was destroyed outside of it. This is a meaningless thing to use as evidence when the other info we got on this place is that it's outside Ben's dimension/universe.

I do not understand. If you can make it more understandable?

Ben finds the dimensional disruptor to be like the Null Void gun, to have Ben say this the thing simply has to be vaguely similar. That's all, they don't need to have as much of a limited range. This is very basic.

"A device that is only capable of connecting in-universe dimensions" is made up, as nowhere does it communicate any of that. "In-universe dimensions" was always made up, it never showed up anywhere. How the range of the dimensional disruptor is limited is stated nowhere.

Also, Kevin statement reliability and the context of the statement has been dealt before numerous times including with zamasu and that's where it was concluded that Kevin is reliable for what he was aware and has been dealing with quite alot, including nullvoid. Multiverse was never a thing nor was established before the forge of creation and so we know context, things, statements and everything.

I disagree with what you agree with, the accuracy of the numerous times this was dealt with before is challenged. I can work off all the info we have with no theories and then conclude how everything works, which just has what Kevin says there as an outlier, you need to have what you buy into already as a premise to justify everything and don't know the sheer amount of outliers it creates.

 

[Firestorm808]

Nope, there doesn't need to something like that where dimensions can all be seen. The idea of a reality where universes can all be seen at a set size is already something made up, and it's great that it exists in the show, but that doesn't mean that a similar place has to exist for the other dimensions as that would be made up.

The Space Beyond is the dimensional space outside the dimensions. If you claim that the other dimensions are outside the space beyond, then what would you call the space between and beyond the different Null Voids and Ledgerdomains? It would still be a "space beyond" those dimensions.

Yes. They can still be closely tied. You can't really measure being closely tied, you can have a verse where some universes are easier to travel between each other due to being closely tied with that being all the explanation and that will be fine, even if a realistic multiverse map has them randomly located across other universes, rather than close to each other or something.

It's not a point that matters, therefore Occam's razor can't be used on it to justify things.

What basis are you using that these dimensions are outside the multiverse and the Space Beyond? The show has never suggested such a thing. How is this the default assumption you are going with?

Even Gwen has stated that Legerdomain is within the Universe.

Occam's Razer applies because your claim is making a lot of assumptions outside the show's material.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Sorry again, I’ve been dealing with a lot of things in my personal time to make comments here, but I wanted to point something out real quick.

Unless I’m mistaken, Kevin was not aware of Dimension 12 before he made his “Thought the universe was everything” statement. Dimension 12 itself was never even introduced or shown to us in the franchise until Omniverse debuted the dimension.

What got introduced in Ultimate Alien were the aliens from Dimension 12, like Computron and his minions, which doesn’t necessarily prove the dimension of their origin was an existing concept back then before Omniverse.

At the absolute most, you can argue that he, Ben and Gwen became aware of Dimension 12 in “Girl Trouble” when Gwen planned to analyze data on the robots from Dimension 12 at her house, but this was the fifth episode of Season 3 of Ultimate Alien. Meaning this happened after Kevin made his statement.

When in Ultimate Alien were they shown to be aware of Dimension 12, or having gone to it, before then?

 

[Eficiente]

The Space Beyond is the dimensional space outside the dimensions. If you claim that the other dimensions are outside the space beyond, then what would you call the space between and beyond the different Null Voids and Ledgerdomains? It would still be a "space beyond" those dimensions.

What basis are you using that these dimensions are outside the multiverse and the Space Beyond? The show has never suggested such a thing. How is this the default assumption you are going with?

Even Gwen has stated that Legerdomain is within the Universe.

I don't necessarily claim that they're outside it, just that the Space Beyond isn't a space where you can see them. That is sufficient, it is we that we would assume more. I know you may think this is unreasonable, but there is no reason for that to be the case.

 

[Reiner04]

An alt. dimension is separated from other dimensions, Ben's universe is a dimension by the series' rules. Yet it's claimed that they're in the same universe. The info used and not used is sel

It is not, it's your headcanon. There is no such thing as series rules or whatsover. Dimensions and realms are just spaces that can be given to any space with length, breadth, height. In fiction it's too common term. You don't have any evidence that it's universe? It's clear that nullvoid Hasn't been treated as universe but pocket dimension always. Then don't force it.

That comes out of nowhere, regular space means the Null Void's regular space, there is no such thing as an inter-dimensional realm. The Null Void's regular space is either the odd-colored space character regularly walk in and breathe in, or a different outer space that's unlike that space, and is more regular. This proves nothing. Also the least of my issues but why would this card be canon?

I do not understand you or either your point out of ordinary efi.

Well, that doesn't necessarily mean that Kevin knew it by then. But I can believe that he did.

All the earthlings knew.


Is this a thing or you just say it?

The fact that she found the car in another dimension proves she has Interdimensional range in that, not that the dimension is part of the universe. Heck even by the cosmoligy you support she would still have Interdimensional range.

post the scan that she searched outside the universe when she is saying that she is searching the universe.

This is completely nonsensical, there is no "Occam's Razer" and "all this things has been referred as in-universe" here. The universe containing more than one dimension is the conclusion you grabbed in before knowing all the facts. Logic is enough evidence.

It's literally there, you just have to ignore it. All the energy cores except one was in the known universe. Take it or leave it idc.

Looking into this those energy cores are things mostly in the universe, so if Max says that in the universe, he's correct, if Max says that in Anur phaetos, he's correct too, as all of them are destroyed in the universe, not mattering how the last one was destroyed outside of it. This is a meaningless thing to use as evidence when the other info we got on this place is that it's outside Ben's dimension/universe.

I do not understand.

 

[Reiner04]

Unless I’m mistaken, Kevin was not aware of Dimension 12 before he made his “Thought the universe was everything” statement. Dimension 12 itself was never even introduced or shown to us in the franchise until Omniverse debuted the dimension.

Well, I can flex out a knowledge here. Dimensions 12 was introduced the same time as of first introduction of captain nemesis and every earthling was aware of it.

 

[Omegabronic]

Unless I’m mistaken, Kevin was not aware of Dimension 12 before he made his “Thought the universe was everything” statement. Dimension 12 itself was never even introduced or shown to us in the franchise until Omniverse debuted the dimension.

Hero Time

Hero Time is the ninth episode of the first season of Ben 10: Ultimate Alien, and the ninth episode overall. A starstruck Ben dates a beautiful young movie actress, while his childhood hero makes a comeback.[CN 1] As Ben, Gwen, and Kevin are waiting for a book signing outside Daldon's Books...

ben10.fandom.com

it was in ultimate alien

What got introduced in Ultimate Alien were the aliens from Dimension 12, like Computron and his minions, which doesn’t necessarily prove the dimension of their origin was an existing concept back then before Omniverse.

they mention it by name in the episode

At the absolute most, you can argue that he, Ben and Gwen became aware of Dimension 12 in “Girl Trouble” when Gwen planned to analyze data on the robots from Dimension 12 at her house, but this was the fifth episode of Season 3 of Ultimate Alien. Meaning this happened after Kevin made his statement.

When in Ultimate Alien were they shown to be aware of Dimension 12, or having gone to it, before then?

they had not gone to it, but they knew about its existance in the nemesis episode, gonna look for the clip when i get home

 

[Reiner04]

Also efi, i am not interested in convincing you even a little bit to heart. Your reasons of denying are same as of those 6 months before when you rejected it and other 6 staff members including zamasu chan accepted it. 2C universe was always a thing. Take it and move on rather than holding on it from 6 months.

 

[Firestorm808]

I don't necessarily claim that they're outside it, just that the Space Beyond isn't a space where you can see them. That is sufficient, it is we that we would assume more. I know you may think this is unreasonable, but there is no reason for that to be the case.

We have a number of statements that these other dimensions are in the universe. Even the Force of Creation is in the Space Beyond. Omniverse even updated the visuals of the space beyond to show the numerous dimensions.

 

[Reiner04]

they had not gone to it, but they knew about its existance in the nemesis episode, gonna look for the clip when i get home

MUAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA!! There is no scan or clip of ben 10 that is hidden from me in existence.

 

[Omegabronic]

MUAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA

beat me to it, thank you

 

[Eficiente]

It is not, it's your headcanon. There is no such thing as series rules or whatsover. Dimensions and realms are just spaces that can be given to any space with length, breadth, height. In fiction it's too common term. You don't have any evidence that it's universe? It's clear that nullvoid Hasn't been treated as universe but pocket dimension always. Then don't force it.

That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly affirm that a dimension and an alt. dimension aren't in the same dimension w/o dealing all these nonsensical standards.

I do not understand you or either your point out of ordinary efi.

Elaborate.

All the earthlings knew.

Well, that's vague.

post the scan that she searched outside the universe when she is saying that she is searching the universe.

That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly know that teleporting into another dimension is Interdimensional range and that this dimension is not in the regular universe.

It's literally there, you just have to ignore it. All the energy cores except one was in the known universe. Take it or leave it idc.

Can't work with this.

I do not understand.

There are 20 mcguffins across the universe, minus the last one which is in another dimension. You destroyed the last one but you don't know that, I confirm that you destroyed all the mcguffins in the universe. You don't need to find them anymore, your work is done. Doesn't mean all of them were in the universe.

We have a number of statements that these other dimensions are in the universe. Even the Force of Creation is in the Space Beyond. Omniverse even updated the visuals of the space beyond to show the numerous dimensions.

Do we have a blog like the one I went over above?

Why would Kevin know this dimension?

 

[Reiner04]

That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly affirm that a dimension and an alt. dimension aren't in the same dimension w/o dealing all these nonsensical standards.

You said Dimensions means universes from series rules, that means all pocket dimensions are universes, transspatial bladder dimension is universes. It doesn't makes sense efi. There is no such thing as Dimensions always means universes, no one care for it. We got a scan and so we standing on. You said mentioning dimensions prove it to be a universe, don't play a reverse card.

Elaborate

I just didn't understood the entire paragraph except you ask for it to be canon or not.

Well, that's vague

Elaborate.

That is completely unreasonable, you need to say that because of what you buy into. In any other verse any random person would correctly know that teleporting into another dimension is Interdimensional range and that this dimension is not in the regular universe

As I asked, prove that she searched outside of universe, when it is clearly stated that she searched the universe "Dozens of times and again"

Can't work with this

?

There are 20 mcguffins across the universe, minus the last one which is in another dimension. You destroyed the last one but you don't know that, I confirm that you destroyed all the mcguffins in the universe. You don't need to find them anymore, your work is done. Doesn't mean all of them were in the universe.

Who was the what now? Literally stated that "they destroyed every core in the known universe" which includes anur system. Stated the last one exist outside the known universe far away. It's as simple as that, anur system is inside the universe.

Why would Kevin know this dimension?

Because this is the time they dealt with Dimension 12 and all their robots sent by captain nemesis from dimension 12, literally the portal was in front of Kevin seeing robots coming out of Dimension 12. Captain nemesis story is famous enough and something that even normal average guy knows and Kevin don't know doesn't really match up with how much Kevin has been really shown to be aware of the universe and things in it. Although starting reasons itself talks.

 

[Omegabronic]

just to ad a point about LedgerDomain, in the scene gwen said that she looked the entire universe trying to find the car, kevin asked for her to "do it again" so by logic she should be looking the universe, so ledgerdomain is considered part of the universe

 

[Reiner04]

Also efi, for real, I can swear on my name that I don't find any reasoning or the light of comments that is based of something series has established.

1-Dimensions always means universes?
2-Anur system is not a part of the universe?
3-Gwen searched outside of the universe?

Where these claims have a base? The evidences are literally speaking against it unless we turn a blind eye.

 

[Reiner04]

just to ad a point about LedgerDomain, in the scene gwen said that she looked the entire universe trying to find the car, kevin asked for her to "do it again" so by logic she should be looking the universe, so ledgerdomain is considered part of the universe

Yeah, have been saying the Samething.

 

[Firestorm808]

Do we have a blog like the one I went over above?

We have the following statements and examples of these dimensions being inside the Space Beyond and near Ben's Dimension.

• AF - Dr. Animo attempted to use a High tech drill to break through the dimensional wall of the Null Void and return to his home dimension.
  • If the Null Void were outside the space beyond, breaking through one wall wouldn't suffice to return to his home. He would have to break out of the Null Void, Break through the Space Beyond, and Break through his home's wall.
• OV - Gwen was searching the entire universe for Kevin's car, including Legerdomain, confirming that Legerdomain is inside "the universe."
  • We're not going to assume that Gwen has senses past the Space Beyond. It's the default assumption that Ledgerdomain is in the proximity of her dimension.
• OV - Servantis warned Ben that "nothing in this universe or any other will bring Ben Tennyson back."
  • This interaction took place while still being in the Null Void. It's obvious that he referred main dimension and the Null Void combined as the universe. The Null Void in Ben 10 hasn't been treated as another universe by any character ever.

 

[Reiner04]

And all these statements has been further supported by various merchandise and games and given that Kevin statement just fix up everything. There is literally no base or reason for otherwise w/o contradicting the lore.

 

[DontTalkDT]

From the comic, Doctor holiday statement was supported by Ben as well while running away in hurry, ben said to Rex, There are millions of dimensions, how did you find this earth?

The same statement and reason for why should Rex never be able to reach Ben's dimension given by Doctor holiday but just amount of dimensions mentioned is different in the comic and yes it's secondary canon as has been accepted already. From here it was accepted that universe has "2B, possibly 2A" as Ben could be throwing a random number to show how big the universe is (has been done in alot of fiction, such as crises of infinite earth's) as he was in too hurry unlike Doctor holiday who gave that statement calmly and based off calculation.

But later on Universe is infinite statement came from WOG as universe is ben 10 is more like a multiverse of dimensions and everytime universe has been mentioned in the series it had included the dimensions inside it considered together.

This is where we get that solid 2A for the universe.

What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?

 

[Reiner04]

What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?

Uh, this is the statement I am specifically referring to, all other statements are about multiverse yes.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Uh, this is the statement I am specifically referring to, all other statements are about multiverse yes.

I don't think is referring to dimensions meaning universes.

 

[Reiner04]

I don't think is referring to dimensions meaning universes.

Uh, yes, he is referring to universe.

 

[Reiner04]

You see, my reasoning was that if we take "universe" as "multiverse of Dimensions", then infinite universe is no different than infinite multiverse which is basically 2-A.

 

[Firestorm808]

I don't think is referring to dimensions meaning universes.

In the context of how the word "universe" has been used in Omniverse (the series he worked on), it's referring to the collection of dimensions, including the Null Void Legerdomain, etc.

• OV - Gwen was searching the entire universe for Kevin's car, including Legerdomain, confirming that Legerdomain is inside "the universe."
  • We're not going to assume that Gwen has senses past the Space Beyond. It's the default assumption that Ledgerdomain is in the proximity of her dimension.
• OV - Servantis warned Ben that "nothing in this universe or any other will bring Ben Tennyson back."
  • This interaction took place while still being in the Null Void. It's obvious that he referred main dimension and the Null Void being include as the universe. The Null Void in Ben 10 hasn't been treated as another universe by any character ever.
• OV - Ultimate Albedo with Azmuth's brainpower, who is aware of the different dimensions such as the Null Void, Dagon's World, and Legerdomain, just refers to it as "the universe." He uses the term multiverse when referring to alternate timelines in his pointless pursuit to destroy Azmuth.

"The Ben 10 Universe" and "Ben's dimension" are two different things.

 

[Firestorm808]

What I don't understand is why the WOG statements support that the dimensions in the universe are infinite, instead of supporting the amount of universes being infinite. Is there a WOG statement that is clear about meaning dimensions in the universe?

Just to clarify, are you fine with the previous thread agreement of "At least 2-B, possibly 2-A" dimensions?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Thanks for the quick clarification, but there’s a slight problem.

Kevin isn’t in this conversation with Ben and Capt. Nemesis. This clip proves Ben was made aware of it at the time.

Uh, this is the statement I am specifically referring to, all other statements are about multiverse yes.

Assuming this is acceptable, why would this mean infinite universes rather than the universe being infinite sized?

 

[AKUTO123]

Thanks for the quick clarification, but there’s a slight problem.

Kevin isn’t in this conversation with Ben and Capt. Nemesis. This clip proves Ben was made aware of it at the time.

Assuming this is acceptable, why would this mean infinite universes rather than the universe being infinite sized?

Yeah that is true . İ think Author said universe size

 

[Firestorm808]

Yeah that is true . İ think Author said universe size

Per the author's usage of the word in omniverse, the use of universe is in reference to the collection of dimensions.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Per the author's usage of the word in omniverse

Where does this come from?