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Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

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Forthegood said:
You haven't demonstrated how or why the evidence is ineffective beyond briefly calling it 'weak,'
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Rest of your post isn't really worth going over. Doesn't matter one whit whether I called the other evidence for higher dimensions "weak." What matters is that I'm granting the conclusion that the aliens are higher-dimensional for argument's sake. And even with this conclusion granted, it means nothing, for reasons already sufficiently illustrated.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
If it refers to a layer of reality, it isn't High 1-B. And I've already pointed out that the statement itself uses both terms to refer to the same thing. The aliens describe themselves as being from an "incalculable dimension," and this incalculable dimension is "a glorious universe." So even the attempted appeal to some kind of consistent overarching terminology (Which I doubt exists) fails in its own terms.
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Apologies. I was speaking colloquially when I say "layer of reality."

The point I'm trying to make is that A Universe is an entire structure of various spatial and temporal dimensions.

The aliens come from a different Universe. In said universe, they have their home dimension with x qualities.

They make the comparison towards Ben's Universe and his home (the 3rd) dimension.

Currently away from home. I'll have more details later.
 
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Ultima_Reality said:
The aliens being higher-dimensional based on independent pieces of evidence doesn't really change anything. They can be higher-dimensional all they want, and the statement still isn't High 1-B because that reading of the text is not necessary nor even possible.
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And the statment that gives a possibility for their "inaclcuable dimension" to be a universe is also a seperate sentence from inaclcuable dimension sentence ?
 
OMNIVERSAL-KING said:
And the statment that gives a possibility for their "inaclcuable dimension" to be a universe is also a seperate sentence from inaclcuable dimension sentence ?
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It’s talking about same thing. It’s like if I said “I came from a giant dimension. A large planet that no man ever saw before”. Here dimension clearly refers to planet. Same thing there, but with “incalculable dimension” and “glorious universe” instead.
 
OMNIVERSAL-KING said:
And the statment that gives a possibility for their "inaclcuable dimension" to be a universe is also a seperate sentence from inaclcuable dimension sentence ?
Click to expand...
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
It’s talking about same thing. It’s like if I said “I came from a giant dimension. A large planet that no man ever saw before”. Here dimension clearly refers to planet. Same thing there, but with “incalculable dimension” and “glorious universe” instead.
Click to expand...
We have already reached 14 pages, let the staffs handle🙏
 
TheOrangeGuy09 said:
It’s talking about same thing. It’s like if I said “I came from a giant dimension. A large planet that no man ever saw before”. Here dimension clearly refers to planet. Same thing there, but with “incalculable dimension” and “glorious universe” instead.
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"The incalculable dimension" , "higher breadth and functionality" etc , all were actually explaining nature of that universe so it can't be linked this way
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I'll wait for said details.
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Can you reiterate your initial question for the current case so I can better address the concerns?

The existence and verbiage of parallel and higher dimensions in the universal structure had been settled in an earlier thread.

Is it in regard to the usage of the verbiage in this specific case?
 
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Firestorm808 said:
Is it in regard to the usage of the verbiage in this specific case?
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The evidence is just thoroughly insufficient overall. There is an appeal to an alleged consistent overarching terminology in Ben 10 where "Dimension" refers to axes as distinct from "Universe," but that fails because this case in specific is one where the two terms are being used interchangeably to refer to the same thing, since the "incalculable dimension" is just the place the aliens come from.

After that, there's an attempt to say that it doesn't really matter if "dimension" is being used in reference to place, which I address here.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
The evidence is just thoroughly insufficient overall. There is an appeal to an alleged consistent overarching terminology in Ben 10 where "Dimension" refers to axes as distinct from "Universe," but that fails because this case in specific is one where the two terms are being used interchangeably to refer to the same thing, since the "incalculable dimension" is just the place the aliens come from.

After that, there's an attempt to say that it doesn't really matter if "dimension" is being used in reference to place, which I address here.
Click to expand...
Okay, so what you would like us to provide is more examples of the distinction within the storyline?
 
Firestorm808 said:
Okay, so what you would like us to provide is more examples of the distinction within the storyline?
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That wouldn't change much, no, since the specific quote that's of interest to us here is treating dimension and universe as interchangeable terms for the same thing anyway. So, overall: Have you any counterpoints to the objections I've raised?
 
Ultima_Reality said:
That wouldn't change much, no, since the specific quote that's of interest to us here is treating dimension and universe as interchangeable terms for the same thing anyway. So, overall: Have you any counterpoints to the objections I've raised?
Click to expand...
To clarify, the current concern is the statement allegedly using them as interchangeable terms?

"We are beings from
  • an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time.
  • A glorious universe unfathomable to a primitive mind such as yours."
However, as we said before, there is a distinction between the two terms in the series.

Also, using two terms to say where they are from doesn't mean they are in the same scope.

An analogy would be:

We are beings from
  • an incalculable "country"
  • A glorious "continent"
 
Firestorm808 said:
Also, using two terms to say where they are from doesn't mean they are in the same scope.

An analogy would be:

We are beings from
  • an incalculable "country"
  • A glorious "continent"
Click to expand...
"I am from an incalculable country. A glorious continent" makes sense as a sentence if:

1) The place is both a country and a continent (Like, idk, Australia or something)

On this account, the comparison doesn't work for the argument, since then "Incalculable dimension" and "Glorious universe" would be conceded as referring to the exact same thing, with no distinction between the two, which causes the "Actually, dimension and universe are different in the series" to just implode.

2) The person saying it is using both as descriptions of distinct parts of where they are from. i.e. As shorthand for "I am from an incalculable country (in) a glorious continent."

The comparison fails on this account because a dimension isn't a place, so describing oneself as being "from" one makes no sense whatsoever. This is where the "People colloquially use the term 'nth dimension' to refer to n-dimensional space, and this is what's happening here" thing comes in. I tackled it here and here.
 
Greenshifter said:
What I’m not getting is why you don’t consider the incalculable dimension to refer to a mathematical one when the alternative interpretation of it referring to a universe doesn’t make sense.
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Considering we have Cosmic Mom's statement of visiting to "lower dimensions" which were contextualized as spatial.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I agreed to it. Though if the statements don't qualify for evidence then it would just be back to my original stance of incalculable not meaning anything tiering wise.
Click to expand...
Ultima’s stance of it being techno-babble would make sense… if it were actually techno-babble. Like the thing with techno-babble is that usually everyone agrees that it’s techno-babble since you can’t make anything sensical out of it no matter how you look at it. But I, and other people advocating for this upgrade, never once went “oh this statement makes no sense whatsoever” in the history of being aware of this statement. Which makes it very unlikely that it means nothing. Heck even the opposition usually doesn’t argue that the statement means nothing at all.

Ultima also doesn’t just say it doesn’t mean anything tiering-wise, he goes once step further and says it means nothing in any conceivable way.
 
Greenshifter said:
Ultima’s stance of it being techno-babble would make sense… if it were actually techno-babble. Like the thing with techno-babble is that usually everyone agrees that it’s techno-babble since you can’t make anything sensical out of it no matter how you look at it. But I, and other people advocating for this upgrade, never once went “oh this statement makes no sense whatsoever” in the history of being aware of this statement. Which makes it very unlikely that it means nothing. Heck even the opposition usually doesn’t argue that the statement means nothing at all.

Ultima also doesn’t just say it doesn’t mean anything tiering-wise, he goes once step further and says it means nothing in any conceivable way.
Click to expand...
I think we can just list out all possible outcomes and start rejecting them one by one to reach the most likely interpretation which makes the most sense in context of the series.
 
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Can we just wait for a little more time for staffs in support to clear out Ultima's view instead of predicting the outcome?
Yeah I get Ultima is the WoG over here but atleast wait for some time.
 
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