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Ben 10 Cosmology: High 1-B upgrade

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Forthegood said:
I kinda see what Ultima is referring too the image says
"from an incalculable dimension that defies the limits of space and time."
basically "dimension" is used interchangeably with a separate universe or reality, rather than strictly referring to spatial dimensions (such as length, width, and height). For me it implies a place or realm that goes beyond  conventional understanding, which can be linked to a alternate universe rather than specific spatial coordinates.
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Celestial_Scaler25 said:
This was already addressed and resolved to not be that the Case in the CRT in a long lengthy disscussion with Q.
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I remember you said something like this isn't Ultima arguing same point but just elaborated further?
 
Forthegood said:
I remember you said something like this isn't Ultima arguing same point but just elaborated further?
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Feedback absorbed all the energy of the Universe including the "dimensions" of all the alternate dimensions(Dimension 12) and timelines(Dimension 21). He was able to Ubsorbed these and the rest of the Universe, or atleast a Universe that would scale to Ben's Universe. Yet he couldn't absorb the simple energy of their ship. Alluding to it not being part of their Universe and scaling higher than the dimensionality of Ben's Universe.

Q argued that their Universe was beyond dimensional. Ultima agrees that their Universe is higher dimensional, but not infinite dimensional.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
"I am from an incalculable country. A glorious continent" makes sense as a sentence if:

1) The place is both a country and a continent (Like, idk, Australia or something)

On this account, the comparison doesn't work for the argument, since then "Incalculable dimension" and "Glorious universe" would be conceded as referring to the exact same thing, with no distinction between the two, which causes the "Actually, dimension and universe are different in the series" to just implode.

2) The person saying it is using both as descriptions of distinct parts of where they are from. i.e. As shorthand for "I am from an incalculable country (in) a glorious continent."

The comparison fails on this account because a dimension isn't a place, so describing oneself as being "from" one makes no sense whatsoever. This is where the "People colloquially use the term 'nth dimension' to refer to n-dimensional space, and this is what's happening here" thing comes in. I tackled it here and here.
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It's an analogy from the top of my head at 1AM. Even then, that Country=Continent scenario is 1/195 countries. That's not what I would call a baseline assumption. Otherwise, we would be calling Tiering for Country and Continent level as the same.

My point is that being from Place A and being from Place B doesn't, by default, equate to Place A = Place B. It depends on the context of the actual relationship between Place A and B in the series.

Also, why are Dimensional Spaces not "Places." Isn't it a common trope in fiction that a creature/being visits the 3rd dimension "from" some higher nth Dimension like those 5th Dimensional Imps in DC?
 
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Firestorm808 said:
Also, why are Dimensional Spaces not "Places." Isn't it a common trope in fiction that a creature/being visits the 3rd dimension "from" some higher nth Dimension like those 5th Dimensional Imps in DC?
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Spatial axes as planes of existences is nothing new in Ben 10, as said by Cosmic Mom, that she was visiting "lower dimensions" which were contextualized as spatial and only 26 matter for Ben and Co. While the aliens in this comic belong to an incalculable dimension.
 
Lord_Zeref_Dragneel said:
How do we even know this "incalculable dimension universe" is inside the Space Beyond? For all we know it could be a reality above it
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The Space Beyond/Omniverse is the highest form of reality as is "I now see the Universe for what it is. We are all but dust, bound by one enormous universal. No, not universal, not even multiversal. This omniversal force continues forever, through all of reality"
I'll add clip here:
 
Lord_Zeref_Dragneel said:
How do we even know this "incalculable dimension universe" is inside the Space Beyond? For all we know it could be a reality above it
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Because it is in a seperate Universe. Where the term "Universe" was accepted as creation of Annihilargh in Ben 10: Omniverse series in a previously established thread. And all the creations of Annihilargh exist in the Space Beyond/Omniverse, hence any claim for it existing beyond the Omniverse would go against the established idea of it being highest level of reality.
I hope this answers the question.
 
Firestorm808 said:
Also, why are Dimensional Spaces not "Places." Isn't it a common trope in fiction that a creature/being visits the 3rd dimension "from" some higher nth Dimension like those 5th Dimensional Imps in DC?
Click to expand...
Hellformer said:
Spatial axes as planes of existences is nothing new in Ben 10, as said by Cosmic Mom, that she was visiting "lower dimensions" which were contextualized as spatial and only 26 matter for Ben and Co. While the aliens in this comic belong to an incalculable dimension.
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So, basically what I'm getting from this is that their "Glorious universe" exist in a "Incalculable dimension" similarly to the Nalgians that can visit/travel to the lower dimensionality with their transdimensional vessels.
 
Hellformer said:
I'll change it if Ultima concludes with a disagreement.
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No, that's not what I meant, the cosmology page and the characters' pages had already been updated before Ultima arrived. Why was White Nothingness changed to High 1-B before Ultima arrived? As far as I understand from this change, your suggestion was that only Space Beyond should be High 1-B. Why did Firestorm make White Nothingness High 1-B as well?
 
Aolphl said:
No, that's not what I meant, the cosmology page and the characters' pages had already been updated before Ultima arrived. Why was White Nothingness changed to High 1-B before Ultima arrived? As far as I understand from this change, your suggestion was that only Space Beyond should be High 1-B. Why did Firestorm make White Nothingness High 1-B as well?
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Because Universes are held within a White void. If a Universe is High 1B then the space containing should be as well.
 
Hellformer said:
Because it is in a seperate Universe. Where the term "Universe" was accepted as creation of Annihilargh in Ben 10: Omniverse series in a previously established thread. And all the creations of Annihilargh exist in the Space Beyond/Omniverse, hence any claim for it existing beyond the Omniverse would go against the established idea of it being highest level of reality.
I hope this answers the question.
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What is the reason for this assumption? The term "universe" is very vague unless it's downright stated that every universe in Ben 10 is the Annihilaargh's creation?
 
Lord_Zeref_Dragneel said:
What is the reason for this assumption? The term "universe" is very vague unless it's downright stated that every universe in Ben 10 is the Annihilaargh's creation?
Click to expand...
Because everybody still kept referring to the Annhilarrgh universe as simply 'the Universe' despite knowing of other alternate dimensions and timelines. Kevin knew about Dimension 12 and the Nulvoid but still thought that the Universe was everything. Ben knew of crosstime and alternate dimensions but still said that the Annihilarrgh destroyed everything he knew despite only still calling it 'the Universe'.

Feedback ubsorbed the full power of the Annhilarrgh universe but couldn't ubsorb the power of their ship. Since energy can't be created nor detroyed, this would suggest that they are from Ben's Annhilarrgh Universe.
 
What I mean is, how can you not entertain the possibility of said "incalculable dimension" to be outside the Space Beyond. What gives you the assumption that everything is inside the Space Beyond
 
Lord_Zeref_Dragneel said:
What I mean is, how can you not entertain the possibility of said "incalculable dimension" to be outside the Space Beyond. What gives you the assumption that everything is inside the Space Beyond
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Appeal to possibility. We will entertain the possibility if there is evidence to support it being outside of reality but since the omniversal force extends through all of reality, it will include this 'Omega universe'. I feel like this is derailing the discussion from the main argument.
 
I was asleep, @Celestial_Scaler25 thanks for answering his doubts.
For God's sake kindly read the cosmology page. I ain't dumb who wasted months to revise the cosmology and established certain things. I won't be answering any nonsense assumptions from now especially the ones which derail the thread.
 
Hellformer said:
I was asleep, @Celestial_Scaler25 thanks for answering his doubts.
For God's sake kindly read the cosmology page. I ain't dumb who wasted months to revise the cosmology and established certain things. I won't be answering any nonsense assumptions from now especially the ones which derail the thread.
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I apologize if I sounded rude. It wasn't meant to make you look dumb or anything. And I don't think its a nonsense assumption. Anyone can look at both sides and say it's valid.
 
Lord_Zeref_Dragneel said:
I apologize if I sounded rude. It wasn't meant to make you look dumb or anything. And I don't think its a nonsense assumption. Anyone can look at both sides and say it's valid.
Click to expand...
I agree with what he's saying but not the way he is saying it. Going against already established cosmology and prior accepted CRTs is a pointless endeavor unless you have proof saying that it is wrong, then you can open another CRT to counter it. There is no evidence to suggest that the Omega universe is seperate from all of reality in Ben 10. So everything you claim is but assumption without a reasonable basis. Please bring evidence to support this claim of the Omega universe being a seperate Universe from the rest of reality or it will be dismissed. Simple Hetchings razor.

This is derailing the CRT. Please make sure you are knowledgeable on the verse and cosmology before hand. This CRT is already 15 pages long it doesn't need to be derailed any further.
 
I'm not saying it as a fact. I'm just questioning if it's actually a part of the Space Beyond since I believe there is no super solid proof of it being part of the Omniverse. That's basically it lmao. And I'm not wasting my time to create a CRT just for that it's literally just a harmless question. And also, I don't think its derailing, since it is still part of the main topic of this thread, which is a High 1-B upgrade for the cosmology. Anyways, have a good day sir.
 
OMNIVERSAL-KING said:
Is debate / argument still going on ?
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Yes. The currently running argument is that the Omega Universe isn't a higher-dimensional plane of existence but instead a plane of existence that exists on a higher spatio-temporal dimension.
Firestorm808 said:
Also, why are Dimensional Spaces not "Places." Isn't it a common trope in fiction that a creature/being visits the 3rd dimension "from" some higher nth Dimension like those 5th Dimensional Imps in DC?
Click to expand...
Hellformer said:
Spatial axes as planes of existences is nothing new in Ben 10, as said by Cosmic Mom, that she was visiting "lower dimensions" which were contextualized as spatial and only 26 matter for Ben and Co. While the aliens in this comic belong to an incalculable dimension.
Click to expand...
Celestial_Scaler25 said:
So, basically what I'm getting from this is that their "Glorious universe" exist in a "Incalculable dimension" similarly to the Nalgians that can visit/travel to the lower dimensionality with their transdimensional vessels.
Click to expand...
 
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