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Bayonetta Tier Upgrades and changes

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Tony_di_bugalu said:
Yeah, 3 spaces in one single big universe, that doesn't mean they are all space-continuums.

Under that idea I can get DB to 2-C ez because every space (Kaio realm, hell, heaven, the observable universe) is its own space when none have their own space-time
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Not really, as the merging of the Trinity of Realities on it's own is 2-C, meaning they have their own space-time.
 
Oh yeah, and about the Aesir overseer statements, at bare minimum its cosmic awareness. We should probably add that for him too and maybe the eye holders as well, as they're also called "overseers"
 
it depends on if everyone’s okay with just 2-A, or would rather a term like possibly or likely.
 
Also characters that scale to his two eyed form get this. Shouldn’t be a problem since the only other one is Jubileus, and maybe Queen Sheba.
 
Gonna respond to this CRT sometime this week since I’m occupied but I want to address one thing.
Not really, as the merging of the Trinity of Realities on it's own is 2-C, meaning they have their own space-time.
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When the hell was that accepted? The merging trinity of realities itself isn’t what got 2-C, it’s the possibility that the two timelines got merged, if it was just the Trinity of realities they would’ve been flat out 2-C a while ago
 
Glass is right. 2-C was given on the basis that Full Power Jubileus was going to merge the original timeline as well as the one created by Little Cereza traveling to the past.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Gonna respond to this CRT sometime this week since I’m occupied but I want to address one thing.

When the hell was that accepted? The merging trinity of realities itself isn’t what got 2-C, it’s the possibility that the two timelines got merged, if it was just the Trinity of realities they would’ve been flat out 2-C a while ago
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Is that not included in the Trinity of Realities?
 
Comicgyal said:
Possessing the power of an Overseer, he existed in a dimension different than our own. Watching the infinite possibilities that layered to form history from a viewpoint surpassing that of time and space.
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This doesn't sound like control over infinite timelines with AP. This sounds more like extrasensory perception, where he can see the outcome of every possibility from beyond the trinity of worlds.

Also, you need more concrete evidence that these possibilities are real space-times.
 
Alright, got the time to read through this.

First off, that statement you're using is outdated for Aesir, that's not what gave them possibly Low Multiversal for the nth time, it's the timeline part that gives them possibly 2-C. Second Kamiya literally said that her going to the future to have experience and then coming back to the past and making it to where certain parts of history changed, such as being sealed by Jeanne, is what caused the axis split, not the eyes awakening, so idk why that's being used here. Also Jubileus did not make a multiverse, she literally is stated to make a single universe by kamiya in that fight, and the origin of the universe is just that... the origin of the universe, the 4 realms are not stated to be alternate space time universes so that's still just a 3-A feat unless you have scans that states the realms are separate space times.

Again, where is the proof that possibilities mean universes here? You need to specify what they mean by possibilities cause that's at best just cosmic awareness on seeing the future and past, which you even quote saying he control the fate of the entire world across all time. Which fits in line with him being able to see history. And none of the quotes you've posted tells me that world means possibilities. You've proven that the "world" means the human world, one of the realities, but nothing in the quotes you've provided has explained world as possibilities.

As for the witch time, the first quote doesn't really help the argument on it being time slow, but the screenshot you've posted can work, though Idk if both stat amp and time slow are gonna be accepted given how the last thread went.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
This doesn't sound like control over infinite timelines with AP. This sounds more like extrasensory perception, where he can see the outcome of every possibility from beyond the trinity of worlds.

Also, you need more concrete evidence that these possibilities are real space-times.
Click to expand...
You could say that this was the case, if his journal entry didn’t say :

“To take back the power of an overseer is to control the fate of the entire world across all time.”

His duty as an overseer is to control the possibilities that he oversees, we again know this because of his previous statement, but I’ll break it down.

“Possessing the power of an overseer, he existed in a dimension different than our own.”

Because of his status as an overseer, Aesir is able to exist in his own separate dimension which is outside of Bayonettas regular multiverse. As we continue through the quote..

“Watching the infinite possibilities that layered to form history, from a viewpoint surpassing that of time and space."

Watch: look at or observe attentively over a period of time.
Oversee: to see or observe secretly or unintentionally:

Watching and Overseeing are similar in their definitions, he oversees these timelines, and with Eye of the World hax he can rule them and manipulate them as he likes. There’s a major difference between him just seeing possibilities, and him being above said possibilities themself and overseeing them. Regular one eye users can see things like past, present, and future. Alternate universes.

Kamiya already confirmed separate possibilities and universes, outside of the main multiverse are separate space times. When they created a new timeline, said timeline was operating on a separate time axis.

“Two different times axis are showing the events of one another—

(cont) Returning cereza to the past after shes had experiences in the future, created another axis of time.”

Hope that clears things up for you.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Alright, got the time to read through this.

First off, that statement you're using is outdated for Aesir, that's not what gave them possibly Low Multiversal for the nth time, it's the timeline part that gives them possibly 2-C. Second Kamiya literally said that her going to the future to have experience and then coming back to the past and making it to where certain parts of history changed, such as being sealed by Jeanne, is what caused the axis split, not the eyes awakening, so idk why that's being used here. Also Jubileus did not make a multiverse, she literally is stated to make a single universe by kamiya in that fight, and the origin of the universe is just that... the origin of the universe, the 4 realms are not stated to be alternate space time universes so that's still just a 3-A feat unless you have scans that states the realms are separate space times.
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I didn’t use any Aesir statement to justify 2-C, infact in the blog I talked about how Bayonetta 1 did that. I suggest reading it over again if you’re confused.

Also that was part of it, you’re missing the point of her awakening the eyes in the first place, I’ll explain.

For starters I never said the eyes awakening created a different time axis, I said that the eyes of the world affect each other’s timelines. Young cereza experienced Bayonettas experiences, then was sent back to her time. Due to this, young Cereza awakened her eyes early. Since the eyes are sensitive across timelines, this made present cereza awaken her eyes at the same time. This is why Balder took young Cereza in the first place.


Kamiyas team actually explains to us how she creates four universes, which are the areas that you fight against her in. Because they are not included within the trinity, they are 4 separate space time universes that Jubileus created inside of the sphere. Are they universes? Yeah. By the way, Muspelheim is apart of their world, and has its own separate space time. She’d have a 2-C feat from the regular merging anyways.

Theglassman12 said:
Again, where is the proof that possibilities mean universes here? You need to specify what they mean by possibilities cause that's at best just cosmic awareness on seeing the future and past, which you even quote saying he control the fate of the entire world across all time. Which fits in line with him being able to see history. And none of the quotes you've posted tells me that world means possibilities. You've proven that the "world" means the human world, one of the realities, but nothing in the quotes you've provided has explained world as possibilities.

As for the witch time, the first quote doesn't really help the argument on it being time slow, but the screenshot you've posted can work, though Idk if both stat amp and time slow are gonna be accepted given how the last thread went.
Click to expand...
We can infer that the possibilities are universes, based off of Aesirs quote and how the dimension works. I’ll explain again

1. Aesirs observations can become reality, reality is synonymous with universe. Aesirs observations created the human world itself.


“Aesir spent the first eternity quietly looking upon the Earth from his holy mountain. Where we only see reality and make it match our rules of the world, Aesir saw through reality, and those visions became our world. These observations became Aesir's power. Aesir's eyes were truly the eyes that created the world.”

Along with Kamiya calling the separate space time universe another “Reality” same with the trinity of “Realities” all of which are separate universes.

2. Because he is an overseer, his observations not only became the foundation for their one world, but for all worlds across all time.

“For someone who can travel through time and space, to take back the Overseer is to control the fate of the entire world across all time. Yet, humanity's choice have sown the seeds of evil within Aesir. Whatever course of action Aesir may take can only be retribution for humanity's sin....”

This makes sense, since there are confirmed other timelines, with other human worlds inside them. Worlds that were created by, and overseen by Aesir when he was in his dimension. There aren’t “multiple Aesirs” just like there are multiple Bayonettas, because when Aesir was going to escape at the end of Bayonetta 2, he was going to escape to a different point in time.

Meaning that other points in time are devoid of “Aesir” physically, because he oversees them with his eyes of the world.

Stat amp and speed boost should work, Bayonetta being able to speed herself up and slow things down all for under time manip. But we’ll see.
 
I was asked to come here, but there are already other staff members helping out, and I am very busy.

If the staff need my help later, they can ask again though.
 
Sorry to side track a bit, but I have a small correction to the OP.

If single eye holders becoming 2-C gets approved (which it has not yet, just to be clear), its not just the single eye holders that become 2-C, but every single 3-A in the verse would become 2-C since they all downscale to Weakened Jubileus via Rodin's Angel/Demon transformations.
 
Question...why would Jubileus' universe creation that is whats seen in the game be considered 2-C if the timeline that makes the feat 2-C wasn't a part of the original trinities of realities? The split time axis wouldn't be included in Jubileus' "origin of the universe" ball thing.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Question...why would Jubileus' universe creation that is whats seen in the game be considered 2-C if the timeline that makes the feat 2-C wasn't a part of the original trinities of realities? The split time axis wouldn't be included in Jubileus' "origin of the universe" ball thing.
Click to expand...
I don’t really understand, but I’ll try to answer how I can?

The sphere shes creating can be 2-C, because of the universes she created that’s outside of the trinity. Meaning they’re separate space times.

The split timeline and the origin of the universe are two different things I mentioned, the timeline thing is 2-C because she was going to merge it as well.

I hope that answers your question (?)
 
I also mentioned how her regular merging is 2-C, because in that merging would be the Muspelheim dimension. Which is a separate space time, and has 22 confirmed universes inside of it.
 
Comicgyal said:
The sphere shes creating can be 2-C, because of the universes she created that’s outside of the trinity. Meaning they’re separate space times.
Click to expand...
Where was it stated she was creating a new space-time? Creating an "origin of the universe" doesn't automatically make it 2-C nor can it be assumed that time itself was included in the creation of the sphere. This Jubileus is weaker than the one who would merge the Trinity of Realities so why would she be assumed to be creating a 2-C sized dimension?

Comicgyal said:
I also mentioned how her regular merging is 2-C, because in that merging would be the Muspelheim dimension. Which is a separate space time, and has 22 confirmed universes inside of it.
Click to expand...
Where was Muspelheim stated to be a universe? Where was it stated to have it's own space-time? And where was it stated that it has 22 universes inside it? None of this is in the CRT or past CRTs so an explanation and links would help.
 
Also, why would the 2-C merging include Muspelheim when that is actually not a part of the ToR and is its own dimension?
 
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