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Bayonetta Revions - The Depths

Btw, if we're scaling Infinite LS to Bayonetta herself, who else would this scale to? Would it scale to her other keys? Does it scale to Jeanne for her hair being involved as well?
 
I’ll respond to the infinite argument in a moment, but if immeasurable is being favored I won’t spend too much time on it.

Crimson_Shadow101 said:
Btw, if we're scaling Infinite LS to Bayonetta herself, who else would this scale to? Would it scale to her other keys? Does it scale to Jeanne for her hair being involved as well?
Click to expand...
Yes it would scale to her other keys, since it wasn’t left eye bayo. It would scale to Jeanne because it’s her hair, it scales to Aesir due to him being able to choke hold her among other things. It scales to Omne (due to being a combined power of bayo and balder) it scales to Balder who is the equal half of Bayo, Jubileus with both eyes should scale from feats done by weaker users, and Rodin should get it because he’s comparable to Jubileus / Bayo in base.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Lightning did say he has some issues with immeasurable speed but idk if he’s going to elaborate here or not.
Click to expand...
Yes, I do
vN2iVrI.png


First, just want to point these aren't big issues for now, as both are based on my rather limited experience with the verse, I know some of you may wonder why tf I'm here, but do keep in mind that a CRT that can convinece non experienced users is, how can I say ? Even further beyond logic and proof

My first question is, again, the canonicity, my first post did question it, but didn't received much attention, but the topic remains, is that game mode canon ? Why is it canon ? I understand that the OP pointed how it uses story elements, but that's not currently enough going by the many alternate game modes around that do use elements of its story (or even elements of other stories from the franchise), that, for almost all of them, don't make it canon by itself, quite far from that, actually

My second question is thanks to the feat itself. When we made the Immeasurable DMC thread, we had a rather long ace attorney trial debate about what means to be that fast, and while the conclusion in the end deemed unnecessary to Travel in Time in order to be Immeasurable, travelling through time still is Immeasurable when done via speed, and that changes the whole perspective of consistency for this speed, because Time Travel isn't something that simple in a verse.

Bayonetta uses Time Travel in its story, and it's consistently done via portals when done on screen, right ? Even for God Tiers, as Bayo uses a portal in the end of the first game to time travel, she and Aesir also used a portal to go back in time. I'm also aware that the game doesn't exactly show how Balder got baby cereza, as he just had her, but not only its details being off screen makes very likely to be Portal based (Or, at best, "Unknown" methods), but we see Balder using a portal to send Baby bayonetta back in the past in the animation, so I don't see a reason to assume this could be done via sheer speed

With that in mind, their Immeasurable feat being actual Time Travel is problematic, the OP points how "It brings in enemies of all time periods" and "In Tag Climax you select a verse card, and are able to run through time and enter to the time period you wish". There are verse cards for enemies from multiple periods, therefore, it's not any simple time travel, it's actually big jumps in time much like their usual/consistent time travel methods can do, and the verse never portrays Time Travel as something casual (...right ? lol)

This inconsistency alongside the questionable canonicity of the mode makes me doubt Immeasurable, but I still fully support Infinite
 
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Lightning_XXI said:
I do yes
Click to expand...
Good points, I’ll tackle these first, and then infinite.
Lightning_XXI said:
I do yes

First, just want to point these aren't big issues for now, as both are based on my rather limited experience with the verse, I know some of you may wonder why tf I'm here, but do keep in mind that a CRT that can convinece non experienced users is, how can I say ? Even further beyond logic and proof

My first question is, again, the canonicity, my first post did question it, but didn't received much attention, but the topic remains, is that game mode canon ? Why is it canon ? I understand that the OP pointed how it uses story elements, but that's not currently enough going by the many alternate game modes around that do use elements of its story (or even elements of other stories from the franchise), that, for almost all of them, don't make it canon by itself, quite far from that, actually
Click to expand...

Well the thing is, it isn’t a matter of whether the game mode itself is canon (mostly) but if the means they use to travel through Muspelheim, makes sense and lines up with the actual in game story. My point was that the game mode uses verse cards (so does Loki in story) and when you click a card you travel to that period in time. So the multiplayer mode uses story elements, to elaborate on how Muspelheim is utilized. So again it’s less of if the game mode is canon, and moreso if the feat could make sense in context of the verse.

Lightning_XXI said:
My second question is thanks to the feat itself. When we made the Immeasurable DMC thread, we had a rather long ace attorney trial debate about what means to be that fast, and while the conclusion in the end deemed unnecessary to Travel in Time in order to be Immeasurable, travelling through time still is Immeasurable when done via speed, and that changes the whole perspective of consistency for this speed, because Time Travel isn't something that simple in a verse.

Bayonetta uses Time Travel in its story, and it's consistently done via portals when done on screen, right ? Even for God Tiers, as Bayo uses a portal in the end of the first game to time travel, she and Aesir also used a portal to go back in time. I'm also aware that the game doesn't exactly show how Balder got baby cereza, as he just had her, but not only its details being off screen makes very likely to be Portal based (Or, at best, "Unknown" methods), but we see Balder using a portal to send Baby bayonetta back in the past in the animation, so I don't see a reason to assume this could be done via sheer speed
Click to expand...

Yes, in most cases time travel is done via portals in Bayonetta, but it’s not the only way. The main difference is actually this feat, where after Loptr kills Rosa, he travels through time. No, he isn’t actually fading into the backdrop as there’s a wall there, nor is he using a portal. (Whenever aesir travels through time via portals, there’s basically a giant flash of blue light) It’s to my belief he’s actually moving through time with his speed, as it would be the only other conclusion to how he disappeared entirely.

I’m under the belief portals are used in most cases for convenience, since when Bayonetta sent Cereza back to her time a portal magically appeared before them. In Bayonetta 2 when she and balder travel to their time, it’s because Bayonetta recognized that there was a built in portal above them. It’s not to say they can’t travel through time without portals, just that they’re usually already present when needed. Characters like aesir are said to transcend space-time entirely, and view the timelines as a monolith, to which he can choose to enter into / observe.

Lightning_XXI said:
methods can do, and the verse never portrays Time Travel as something casual (...right ? lol)
Click to expand...

Just depends as what you view as casual, as already stated they usually just travel through time via means already presented to them. Aesir travelled through time casually after killing Rosa, and could just open portals to other eras entirely without effort.
 
As feat on its own Immeasurable speed is looking good to me.

From how Comicgyal explained this seems to be verse mechanics involving Muselphiem.....so on that aspect I find it acceptable.

But since there merit to what Dienomite said on infinite speed and Lightning on Immeasurable speed... perhaps a "possibly, likely" compromise for both ratings, for both sides of arguements be acceptable??

Obviously the CRT is still in baby phase, so maybe more discussion is needed.
 
Well the thing is, it isn’t a matter of whether the game mode itself is canon (mostly) but if the means they use to travel through Muspelheim, makes sense and lines up with the actual in game story. My point was that the game mode uses verse cards (so does Loki in story) and when you click a card you travel to that period in time. So the multiplayer mode uses story elements, to elaborate on how Muspelheim is utilized. So again it’s less of if the game mode is canon, and moreso if the feat could make sense in context of the verse.
Click to expand...
I get now what was the main reasons, but there is one important aspect of the game mode that your case needs in order to work: they running

Clicking the card and travelling in time, on its own and without the game mode cutscene, is that speed based Time Travel or normal Time Travel ? If that's proved only with the game mode, its canonicity is rather important

Yes, in most cases time travel is done via portals in Bayonetta, but it’s not the only way. The main difference is actually this feat, where after Loptr kills Rosa, he travels through time. No, he isn’t actually fading into the backdrop as there’s a wall there, nor is he using a portal. (Whenever aesir travels through time via portals, there’s basically a giant flash of blue light) It’s to my belief he’s actually moving through time with his speed, as it would be the only other conclusion to how he disappeared entirely.
Click to expand...

I do agree it doesn't seem portal based, but still, the method is mostly unknown, likely speed, it's really hard to, say, showcase Immeasurable speed in any material besides novels, I guess.

Characters like aesir are said to transcend space-time entirely, and view the timelines as a monolith, to which he can choose to enter into / observe.
Click to expand...

So the defense was hiding evidence ? Preposterous !
vFkkM9R.gif


I'll wait for the answer on my first question, but my Speed Authopsy Report is likely updating to Likely Immeasurable, as Gilver suggested
 
Lightning_XXI said:
I get now what was the main reasons, but there is one important aspect of the game mode that your case needs in order to work: they running

Clicking the card and travelling in time, on its own and without the game mode cutscene, is that speed based Time Travel or normal Time Travel ? If that's proved only with the game mode, its canonicity is rather important
Click to expand...
Let me see if I understood you correctly. In the game mode, traveling through time is down via speed. Each character goes through the verse card, runs through time, (a flash of light appears) then they come out in the era they ran to.

Ingame when traveling to Muspelheim, you go through a portal, enter this bluish area, then come out the other end. The most consistent part in all of this is blue, and how it’s associated with time.

Take this instance here, when aesir was about to lose he made a portal into time, and was going to escape. Or when Loptr was leaving Bayonettas world (I’m assuming going to another time) and faded into a blue light. (Not saying this was done by speed, it could be teleportation, dunno.) Also when Prophet here shifted through time, and went back to the area Bayonetta and Loki were at previously. (Could still be teleportation also, but this one was MUCH different than an instance where he was shown to be confirmed teleporting. So I think it isn’t the same.)

These are just examples to show that when these characters move through time, it isn’t restricted to just portals. Movements can be used as well.
 
Comicgyal said:
Let me see if I understood you correctly. In the game mode, traveling through time is down via speed. Each character goes through the verse card, runs through time, (a flash of light appears) then they come out in the era they ran to.

Ingame when traveling to Muspelheim, you go through a portal, enter this bluish area, then come out the other end. The most consistent part in all of this is blue, and how it’s associated with time.

Take this instance here, when aesir was about to lose he made a portal into time, and was going to escape. Or when Loptr was leaving Bayonettas world (I’m assuming going to another time) and faded into a blue light. (Not saying this was done by speed, it could be teleportation, dunno.) Also when Prophet here shifted through time, and went back to the area Bayonetta and Loki were at previously. (Could still be teleportation also, but this one was MUCH different than an instance where he was shown to be confirmed teleporting. So I think it isn’t the same.)

These are just examples to show that when these characters move through time, it isn’t restricted to just portals. Movements can be used as well.
Click to expand...
Very well then, I guess my issues have been solved, thank you for the patience

GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Obviously the CRT is still in baby phase, so maybe more discussion is needed.
Click to expand...
Well, going by most Immeasurable CRTs, we still have 1 or 2 pages of talking
 
Infinite Lifting Strength looks solid, but Immeasurable looks iffy unless Sheba is like merged with all time and space. Infinite speed also looks fine, but I'm not 100% certain about Immeasurable speed as opposed to it just being time travel.
 
Me Dragon and Medeus have commented, and pretty much everyone else who’s knowledgeable on Bayonetta, so I guess you can add whatever’s accepted.
 
Maybe we should wait for DDM, as they were skeptical of immeasurable, but fine with infinite.
 
Let’s wait another day or so, if no one else replies we’ll just go with what was already accepted.
 
Example
vsbattles.fandom.com

Queen Sheba

Queen Sheba is the Infernal Demon tasked with the role of the ruler of Inferno. She is portrayed as a darker, yet much more massive version of Jubileus with similar powers. When the cosmos was split into light, darkness and the chaos in-between, the incredibly powerful Sheba was born alongside...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Wouldn't Sheba also have Omnipresence like Glass said? This would also mean that Sheba would have her Large Size changed from Type 3 to Type 8.
 
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Wait hold up, a thought just hit me. Wouldn't Gammorah and eventually every high tier demon scale to infinite LS since Gamorrah was capable of breaking out of Bayo's hair?
 
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