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BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

Arc7Kuroi said:
Man must've forgotten the end of the Yhwach fight where Yhwach goes on a tangent about life and death and the fear of death. L video
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Yhwach: Everyone who comes near me as a child is fated to die and this means anyone who I can ever love or be close with dies. This gave me such an intense fear and hatred of death that in a false attempt to cope with my grief I try to get rid of the concept of death all together for all beings out of some twisted idea of altruism that no being should suffer as I did as a result of death when really I was just coping with my own cowardice at the prospect of grief and dying.

”The Death theme was lost”

Edit: Like Jesus Christ, Aizen directly spells this out in the final chapter and he didn’t get it.
 
Arcker123 said:
Yhwach: Everyone who comes near me as a child is fated to die and this means anyone who I can ever love or be close with dies. This gave me such an intense fear and hatred of death that in a false attempt to cope with my grief I try to get rid of the concept of death all together for all beings out of some twisted idea of altruism that no being should suffer as I did as a result of death when really I was just coping with my own cowardice at the prospect of grief and dying.

”The Death theme was lost”

Edit: Like Jesus Christ, Aizen directly spells this out in the final chapter and he didn’t get it.
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Kubo, while being vague a lot of times, does just blatantly spell out the theme's of courage and death at the end of the manga lmao. If people don't get that, I question if they read the series, or just the wiki pages.
 
Ichigo: The death of my mother caused me so much grief and turmoil that I developed a savior complex in order to cope with her death and my grief. My entire character arc is about coming to terms with her loss and ultimately accepting myself after years of self loathing and non acceptance of myself. I learned how to properly grieve her death and gained the courage to move foward.
Arc7Kuroi said:
BUt mr YoiutUbe mAN said IT was LOst
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I think it would’ve been cool to see Yhwach have a panic attack after dying and resurrecting himself. Would’ve driven home his fear really well, even before his exposition of his goal.

Or maybe not. The almighty is a literal representation of his fear and his Christ symbolism.
 
Curious to see how the anime will handle things, and you saying that has me wondering if Yhwach's seemingly "excessive" talking was a display of nervousness masked as overconfidence.
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Curious to see how the anime will handle things, and you saying that has me wondering if Yhwach's seemingly "excessive" talking was a display of nervousness masked as overconfidence.
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Definitely was. Yhwach is verbatim stated to be a coward. He lacked the courage to stand up and face death like a man, unlike Ichigo. Him acting like a coward in his final moments fits the overall narrative Kubo wants to portray.

That’s the whole point of the almighty. Along with its biblical symbolism, it’s a pretty good representation of the character. The almighty allowed him to never face death. It’s powernull is symbolic of “no weapon shal prosper against Christ.” It’s fate manipulation is symbolic of Christian fatalism, and omniscience, whilst also showing how Yhwach feared death so much, his ability allowed him to flawlessly avoid it. His resurrection is symbolic of Christs resurrection and his own fear of death, he could never truly face it. Without his Almighty (due to still silver), he was without his shield from death, he was forced to face death, and his fear overcame him.

Hell, he is even symbolic of heaven. Why do people desire heaven? Well, at least one of the motives is the immortality and eternal pleasure of heaven. Humans naturally view death with fear. We fear death and wish for true immortality, which Christ and heaven gives us. Maybe, we fear the unknown of death and use heaven as a coping method. This symbolism is beautifully represented in bleach.

Yhwach is symbolic of Jesus. Jesus is a leader of humanity who will guide us into heaven. Yhwach is the same. Yhwach wishes to lead all beings in bleach into his new world without life and death, clearly symbolic of heaven. He also represents the reason we desire Christian heaven, that being fear of the unknown (death). Ichigo provides opposition to this well. His first poem is “We fear the unknown.” Despite this fear Ichigo is able to muster the courage to face certain doom (the overbearing power of Yhwach) with a brave face, perfectly opposing Yhwachs fear. Yhwach is the fear and despair to Ichigos courage and hope.

Yhwach and his downfall is supposed to be a critique on a fear of death and a criticism on god. Hell, even Aizen and Yhwachs dynamic pushes this. Yhwach is a critique on the fear of death, heaven, and the idea of letting go (Yhwachs goal can also be interpreted as Buddhist nirvana/liberation, Kubo likes using Buddhist references in Bleach. Nirvana is the idea of letting go from the world to reach paradise, which fits Yhwach). Yhwach being scared in the way you described is not only pushed this theme, it just works for the character.

Sorry for the tangent
 
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So, we have 2 for first version and 2 for the second, while I also lean toward the first for the same reason that ThitOneGuy said.
 
Arcker123 said:


Death is a major theme in bleach, and this theme is kept up throughout the story. Yhwach is literal proof of This.
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tbh the theme of life and death wasn't really in the forefront of the war arc, only pushed to the last chapters when yhwach revealed his goal and aizen gave his speech. Other than that it was basically just "quincies/sternritters bad".
 
Arcker123 said:
Definitely was. Yhwach is verbatim stated to be a coward. He lacked the courage to stand up and face death like a man, unlike Ichigo. Him acting like a coward in his final moments fits the overall narrative Kubo wants to portray.

That’s the whole point of the almighty. Along with its biblical symbolism, it’s a pretty good representation of the character. The almighty allowed him to never face death. It’s powernull is symbolic of “no weapon shal prosper against Christ.” It’s fate manipulation is symbolic of Christian fatalism, and omniscience, whilst also showing how Yhwach feared death so much, his ability allowed him to flawlessly avoid it. His resurrection is symbolic of Christs resurrection and his own fear of death, he could never truly face it. Without his Almighty (due to still silver), he was without his shield from death, he was forced to face death, and his fear overcame him.

Hell, he is even symbolic of heaven. Why do people desire heaven? Well, at least one of the motives is the immortality and eternal pleasure of heaven. Humans naturally view death with fear. We fear death and wish for true immortality, which Christ and heaven gives us. Maybe, we fear the unknown of death and use heaven as a coping method. This symbolism is beautifully represented in bleach.

Yhwach is symbolic of Jesus. Jesus is a leader of humanity who will guide us into heaven. Yhwach is the same. Yhwach wishes to lead all beings in bleach into his new world without life and death, clearly symbolic of heaven. He also represents the reason we desire Christian heaven, that being fear of the unknown (death). Ichigo provides opposition to this well. His first poem is “We fear the unknown.” Despite this fear Ichigo is able to muster the courage to face certain doom (the overbearing power of Yhwach) with a brave face, perfectly opposing Yhwachs fear. Yhwach is the fear and despair to Ichigos courage and hope.

Yhwach and his downfall is supposed to be a critique on a fear of death and a criticism on god. Hell, even Aizen and Yhwachs dynamic pushes this. Yhwach is a critique on the fear of death, heaven, and the idea of letting go (Yhwachs goal can also be interpreted as Buddhist nirvana/liberation, Kubo likes using Buddhist references in Bleach. Nirvana is the idea of letting go from the world to reach paradise, which fits Yhwach). Yhwach being scared in the way you described is not only pushed this theme, it just works for the character.

Sorry for the tangent
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Amen 🙏
 
Rebirth said:
tbh the theme of life and death wasn't really in the forefront of the war arc, only pushed to the last chapters when yhwach revealed his goal and aizen gave his speech. Other than that it was basically just "quincies/sternritters bad".
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Quincy: Threaten the very balance of life and death itself and The Shinigami: Perpetuators of this cycle have large scale war.

”The theme wasn’t the fore front”

The conflict between shinigami and Quincy was always about the theme of life and death. They both offered opposing views on it and these views oppose one another. The Quincy oppose the soul cycle (and thus life and death) the shinigami support it. That’s the underlying theme behind the conflict. This was stated back when Uryu was introduced.

Edit: Yhwach and Ichigo’s dynamic also ties into this. Yhwach, father of Quincy wishes to destroy the cycle. Ichigo, son of both shinigam and Quincy offers a unique perspective into this seemingly black and white war between shinigami and Quincy. He was met with loss, with death, but unlike Yhwach, and the other Quincy, he had the courage to push forward. I think this is partially due to his unique heritag, he inherited a mix of the ideologies.

Edit 2: There’s even some color symbolism in that idea. The Quincy wear all white and The shinigami wear mostly black. White is the color of life (Quincy), and black is the color of death (Shinigami).
 
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Ngl Yhwach was def Scared of Ichigo, he just pretended he wasnt and tried to come of as all powerful being that cant be stopped to **** with Ichigo‘s Mind like what happend with Aizen and Ichigo wanting to give up, and he very well could know this since his Soldats and Sternritter were active at that time and observing everything.
I still wish to this day to know what Ichigo‘s OG Bankai was and why it made Yhwach scared of it more than he already was.
 
One of the reasons i love bleach is because while it keept the major theme of death through the whole series the majority of the characters have their own themes that are not restricted and limited around their view on death
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Kubo, while being vague a lot of times, does just blatantly spell out the theme's of courage and death at the end of the manga lmao. If people don't get that, I question if they read the series, or just the wiki pages.
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You would be surprised how many people just read wiki pages. The same wiki which apparently doesn't accept CFYOW being canon.
 
KingogKings777 said:
One of the reasons I like Bleach is cause of the big tittie waifus it created.
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Yeah stop the cap buddy, if big tittie waifu is what you liked then Harribel should be one of the top on ur list. It's fine if you got Charlotte Chuhlhourne as ur favorite character, we won't judge here.

Imagine not thinking Harribel is top tier 😑

Truly an L take
 
Arcker123 said:
The conflict between shinigami and Quincy was always about the theme of life and death. They both offered opposing views on it and these views oppose one another. The Quincy oppose the soul cycle (and thus life and death) the shinigami support it. That’s the underlying theme behind the conflict. This was stated back when Uryu was introduced.
Click to expand...

The fun thing is both Ywach and Aizen kinda helped the good guys, by placing feudalism as the enemy.
 
Y’all talking about the form of Zangetsu that Ichigo used to kill Yhwach? Kubo explains that in his Klub Outside, but Anonymous is right it isn’t a Shikai. Ichigo can have Zangetsu take whatever shape he wants now. He’s achieved a state similar to TYBW Aizen of becoming one with his Zanpakuto.
 
0671-010.png

he is talking about this
 
Arc7Kuroi said:
Y’all talking about the form of Zangetsu that Ichigo used to kill Yhwach? Kubo explains that in his Klub Outside, but Anonymous is right it isn’t a Shikai. Ichigo can have Zangetsu take whatever shape he wants now. He’s achieved a state similar to TYBW Aizen of becoming one with his Zanpakuto.
Click to expand...
we're talking about adult tosh
 
Shikai Hyouketsu just means 4 Element Freeze or sumn like that, it’s not the same kanji as in Shikai for initial sword release (shi can mean 4)
 
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