BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion

[AppleLord]

for a lot of these its reaching to get to 10 specifically the difference is an amount but not as high as 10, ulq uses a lance technique ichigo uses getsuga neither with a number multiplier. Ulq compares his getsuga to a cero not his black cero oscuras. He names oscura when he talks about it he doesnt just call it a cero besides the time he introduces it to ichigo. There are multiple ceros, a cero, cero oscura, Grande re, Bala. Any of the variations are named or called out as not a normal cero so just saying cero...bad no multiplier.

Ichigo =< base ulq, mask ichigo > base ulq, res ulq > Ichigo. They relative buddy
also if you say hes directly comparing them hes saying hes a puny human, the sentiment said when he says you can copy us but you dont have our power. so its not as strong as cero oscura

and ichigo drawing on his hollow powers should most def NOT have a multiplier it goes from making him loose to base YAMMY to being stronger than 4th espada Ulquiorra Cifer something not done till he DIES twice, nearly dies 2 times, and trains. Or being conservative after he trains and dies and almost dies and gets resolved amped.

being 100% it is a number but not 10x

The next page I did not posted Ulquiorra procedes to “let me show you” and fires a cero oscuras. Lanza isn’t important here, is Ulquiorra’s ressurection power up.

 

[AppleLord]

Debunked.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Hey. Lille light attacks can be considered as real light According to Wiki standard. Why didn't anyone used that for speed calculations. Why everything is considered as outlier for Bleach in wiki .

 

[AppleLord]

Hey. Lille light attacks can be considered as real light According to Wiki standard. Why didn't anyone used that for speed calculations. Why everything is considered as outlier for Bleach in wiki .

Don’t know. It should be real light. Reishi light existed before the Kishi world which has real light. Meaning Reishi light is natural in the verse. Real life light is just a copy of Reishi light.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Don’t know. It should be real light. Reishi light existed before the Kishi world which has real light. Meaning Reishi light is natural in the verse. Real life light is just a copy of Reishi light.

What I meant is Lille light attacks reflect like natural light and he called that as light multiple times. Black Clover speed is calculated same. Nanao who Never trained in her whole life easily dodges those. Bleach characters from above lieutenants should be lightspeed.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i recall a statement of muken seals preventing zanpakuto usage with azashiro, anyone got this statement

 

[CalmHill]

Don’t care about the rest. The bolded is just no. I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that Ichigo and Ulq are relative in any way, shape or form. Base Ulq dominates Bankai Ichigo, Masked Ichigo bullies base Ulq, R1 and R2 Ulq pimp slap Masked Ichigo no diff and Zangetsu stomps R2 Ulq with that Black Air Force energy.

I dont know how you come to the conclusion they are not relative, weve seen people that werent realtive multiple times and that fight was not it. Gin vs hiyori, yama vs ayon, ichigo vs shaz, kenpachi vs ichigo start of fight, etc. Ichigo blocks ulqs first attack, dodged his 2nd, blocked his third, and then uses a getsuga which is blocked. Ulq then uses cero osc which makes him 10x stronger. and CANNOT one shot ichigo. Bro ichigos bankai amps his speed not durability. Funny as well since ulq isnt even much faster than ichigo. He uses sonido to overtake him, 1st scene sonido, throws lance showing not much faster, runs up ichigo blocks, they then do respective blast and they react to both.
We legit see someone that is not relative earlier in the fight. Base ulq and masked ichigo, ulq tries to block his attack with his sword, sword cracks.
pre grim fight ichigo vs ulq, puts mask on and uses a getsuga to block ulqs cero nigh one shot.

The next page I did not posted Ulquiorra procedes to “let me show you” and fires a cero oscuras. Lanza isn’t important here, is Ulquiorra’s ressurection power up.

yes ulq doing this is to introduce ichigo to a black cero, which when it is actually used in comparison its named. And when others variates are used they are also name so ulq doing this is only to say it is like a cero and we have a back cero. ulq says that and then proceeds to say "no matter how similar your appearance or techniques may be to an arrancars they're as different as heaven and hell." "its understandable that humans and soul reapers would mimic arrancar to increase their powre but you will never be out equals." So getsuga is copying ceros but is weaker than it by a large margin, we actually see it against a regular cero and it does loose. In grim vs ichigo final fight in base, it can still contest it but its not as close as ulq and fh ichigo.

ulqs res powers dont matter (arbitrary relative numbers)
ichigo in base - 80
ulq in base - 100
ichigo with mask - 800
ulq in res- 1000
ichigo with getsuga mask - 900 (still loses to ulqs lance twice)
ulq with cero osc- 10,000

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I dont know how you come to the conclusion they are not relative, weve seen people that werent realtive multiple times and that fight was not it. Gin vs hiyori, yama vs ayon, ichigo vs shaz, kenpachi vs ichigo start of fight, etc. Ichigo blocks ulqs first attack, dodged his 2nd, blocked his third, and then uses a getsuga which is blocked. Ulq then uses cero osc which makes him 10x stronger. and CANNOT one shot ichigo. Bro ichigos bankai amps his speed not durability. Funny as well since ulq isnt even much faster than ichigo. He uses sonido to overtake him, 1st scene sonido, throws lance showing not much faster, runs up ichigo blocks, they then do respective blast and they react to both.
We legit see someone that is not relative earlier in the fight. Base ulq and masked ichigo, ulq tries to block his attack with his sword, sword cracks.
pre grim fight ichigo vs ulq, puts mask on and uses a getsuga to block ulqs cero nigh one shot.


yes ulq doing this is to introduce ichigo to a black cero, which when it is actually used in comparison its named. And when others variates are used they are also name so ulq doing this is only to say it is like a cero and we have a back cero. ulq says that and then proceeds to say "no matter how similar your appearance or techniques may be to an arrancars they're as different as heaven and hell." "its understandable that humans and soul reapers would mimic arrancar to increase their powre but you will never be out equals." So getsuga is copying ceros but is weaker than it by a large margin, we actually see it against a regular cero and it does loose. In grim vs ichigo final fight in base, it can still contest it but its not as close as ulq and fh ichigo.

ulqs res powers dont matter (arbitrary relative numbers)
ichigo in base - 80
ulq in base - 100
ichigo with mask - 800
ulq in res- 1000
ichigo with getsuga mask - 900 (still loses to ulqs lance twice)
ulq with cero osc- 10,000

Living after you get hit by a car doesn’t mean you scale to the car. Ichigo gets grazed by a casual Ulq and is huffing like a fat guy who ran a full marathon from the injury. That’s not what is known as relative.

 

[AppleLord]

I dont know how you come to the conclusion they are not relative, weve seen people that werent realtive multiple times and that fight was not it. Gin vs hiyori, yama vs ayon, ichigo vs shaz, kenpachi vs ichigo start of fight, etc. Ichigo blocks ulqs first attack, dodged his 2nd, blocked his third, and then uses a getsuga which is blocked. Ulq then uses cero osc which makes him 10x stronger. and CANNOT one shot ichigo. Bro ichigos bankai amps his speed not durability. Funny as well since ulq isnt even much faster than ichigo. He uses sonido to overtake him, 1st scene sonido, throws lance showing not much faster, runs up ichigo blocks, they then do respective blast and they react to both.
We legit see someone that is not relative earlier in the fight. Base ulq and masked ichigo, ulq tries to block his attack with his sword, sword cracks.
pre grim fight ichigo vs ulq, puts mask on and uses a getsuga to block ulqs cero nigh one shot.


yes ulq doing this is to introduce ichigo to a black cero, which when it is actually used in comparison its named. And when others variates are used they are also name so ulq doing this is only to say it is like a cero and we have a back cero. ulq says that and then proceeds to say "no matter how similar your appearance or techniques may be to an arrancars they're as different as heaven and hell." "its understandable that humans and soul reapers would mimic arrancar to increase their powre but you will never be out equals." So getsuga is copying ceros but is weaker than it by a large margin, we actually see it against a regular cero and it does loose. In grim vs ichigo final fight in base, it can still contest it but its not as close as ulq and fh ichigo.

ulqs res powers dont matter (arbitrary relative numbers)
ichigo in base - 80
ulq in base - 100
ichigo with mask - 800
ulq in res- 1000
ichigo with getsuga mask - 900 (still loses to ulqs lance twice)
ulq with cero osc- 10,000

Don’t be fool by this translation. Ulquiorra is actually comparing it to Cero Oscuras not a normal cero. He proceeds to “you have not seen it” meaning is not a normal cero because Ichigo has already seen those cero. Then he says “the black cero” and process to use Cero Oscuras. Ulquiorra is comparing his black Getsuga to cero oscuras not a normal cero.

 

[AppleLord]

Living after you get hit by a car doesn’t mean you scale to the car. Ichigo gets grazed by a casual Ulq and is huffing like a fat guy who ran a full marathon from the injury. That’s not what is known as relative.

The car analogy is wrong because a human doesn’t have enough force to stop a car driving straight at him.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

The car analogy is wrong because a human doesn’t have enough force to stop a car driving straight at him.

…… what? That’s not the comparison being made. Calm is saying that Ichigo and Ulq are relative because Ulq can’t one shot Ichigo with CO even though him using CO destroyed Ichigo’s Mask and left him extremely weakened hence why surviving something way stronger than you doesn’t make you relative/scale to said thing. If you don’t know what is going on, don’t try speak on it as if you do.

 

[AppleLord]

…… what? That’s not the comparison being made. Calm is saying that Ichigo and Ulq are relative because Ulq can’t one shot Ichigo with CO even though him using CO destroyed Ichigo’s Mask and left him extremely weakened hence why surviving something way stronger than you doesn’t make you relative/scale to said thing. If you don’t know what is going on, don’t try speak on it as if you do.

Ichigo is not relative to Ulquiorra. Ichigo’s black Getsuga is relative to his power after stoping Ulquiorra’s Lanza from killing him.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Ichigo is not relative to Ulquiorra. Ichigo’s black Getsuga is relative to his power after stoping Ulquiorra’s Lanza from killing him.

And? Did you even read my posts? I am clearly taking the stance that they aren’t relative. Why are you disagreeing with me and then repeating my stance at me as if I disagree?

Also, why in the seven hells are you bringing up Lanza?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Post-Grimmjow Bankai Ichigo is relative to a more casual base Ulq. Post G Hollow Mask Ichigo is like barely stronger than base Ulq.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Post-Grimmjow Bankai Ichigo is relative to a more casual base Ulq. Post G Hollow Mask Ichigo is like barely stronger than base Ulq.

Wot? How? Ichigo was about to snap his sword in two with a swing. That isn’t “barely” stronger.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The gap between HM Ichigo and base Ulq is less than the gap between HM Ichigo and Res Ulq.

 

[YukaSama4]

The gap between HM Ichigo and base Ulq is less than the gap between HM Ichigo and Res Ulq.

Amazing info that no one knew, thanks

 

[CalmHill]

Living after you get hit by a car doesn’t mean you scale to the car. Ichigo gets grazed by a casual Ulq and is huffing like a fat guy who ran a full marathon from the injury. That’s not what is known as relative.

False equivalence, and 1st strike is while using sonido so off guard. Cfyow states fighting it is legit like fighting an illusion. This is shown by ichigo being able to not be that desperate when adjusted. dodging and blocking him. Also shown when he’s not one shot even while being weakened .

Ichigo is not relative to Ulquiorra. Ichigo’s black Getsuga is relative to his power after stoping Ulquiorra’s Lanza from killing him.

He literally blocks him and the lance and sends him back. And blocked him with a getsuga

 

[AppleLord]

And? Did you even read my posts?

Yes.

I am clearly taking the stance that they aren’t relative.

I know.

Why are you disagreeing with me and then repeating my stance at me as if I disagree?

You're repeating my post. I agreed with you. But your analogy of the car was wrong.

Also, why in the seven hells are you bringing up Lanza?

Because Ulquiorra had a lanza in his hand? Lanza means spear in Spanish. Lanza del Relampago (Lightning Spear) is another thing in R2.

 

[AppleLord]

He literally blocks him and the lance and sends him back. And blocked him with a getsuga

Getsuga and Black Getsuga are two different things.

 

[CalmHill]

Getsuga and Black Getsuga are two different things.

It’s not but even under that assumption my argument doesn’t change.

 

[AppleLord]

It’s not but even under that assumption my argument doesn’t change.

Leaving an argument without further conversation and sticking with the old argument is stubbornness.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yes.

I know.

You're repeating my post. I agreed with you. But your analogy of the car was wrong.

No it wasn’t. I even went and explained the comparison while you insisted on being needlessly pedantic.

Because Ulquiorra had a lanza in his hand? Lanza means spear in Spanish. Lanza del Relampago (Lightning Spear) is another thing in R2.

I know what lanza means, I am asking why you use Lanza with a capital L, a term that when used in the context of Bleaxh refers to Relampago, especially when you bothered to type everything else in english.

 

[Deceived3596]

Because Ulquiorra had a lanza in his hand? Lanza means spear in Spanish. Lanza del Relampago (Lightning Spear) is another thing in R2.

Dora the Explorer headass .

 

[AnonymousBlank]

False equivalence, and 1st strike is while using sonido so off guard. Cfyow states fighting it is legit like fighting an illusion. This is shown by ichigo being able to not be that desperate when adjusted. dodging and blocking him. Also shown when he’s not one shot even while being weakened .

Wow. Absolutely nothing here even bothers with what I was talking about, something I clarified in a post to Apple. Ichigo surviving CO isn’t an argument that they are relative, something you implied with your post before. Let’s go over all of the interactions with them shall we?

1. Base Ulq no diffs everything Bankai Ichigo sends his way. Not relative.
2. A direct hit from Bankai Ichigo to a casual Ulq puts a scratch on his chest. Not relative.
3. Masked Ichigo immediately forces Ulq on the back foot and is going to two shot Ulq’s Zanpakuto. Not relative.
4. Casual Rez Ulq smashed through Ichigo’s mask and has him on his knees despite Ichigo’s Getsuga deflecting it and lessening the impact. Not relative.
5. A simple thrown lance that Ichigo barely dodges followed by a second one that simply by grazing his shoulder, sends him flying to the point he struggles to stop himself. Not relative.
6. Ichigo blocks a casual one handed swing from Ulq with two arms and is struggling to do so all while being constantly forced backwards. Not relative.
7. Masked Ichigo’s fully charged Getsuga gets slapped away by casual Rez Ulq’s wing. Not relative.
8. Rez Ulq fires a CO that destroys Ichigo’s Mask and half of his shihakusho despite Ulq trying to not hit LN which Ichigo was on, aka he wasn’t even aiming the full force at Ichigo but still took out half of Ichigo’s reiryoku. Not relative.
9. Ulq proceeds to pinball Ichigo around to make Ichigo despair and give up, ergo he isn’t serious nor trying to kill Ichigo and Ichigo still gets folded like a lawn chair. Not relative.
10. Ulq even tells Ichigo how he is dogshit compared to Ulq despite “imitating Hollows”, meaning that his Masked form isn’t relative to Rez Ulq.

 

[CalmHill]

Leaving an argument without further conversation and sticking with the old argument is stubbornness.

I said your claim was incorrect but even if it was correct my arguments validity would not change.

1. Base Ulq no diffs everything Bankai Ichigo sends his way. Not relative.
2. A direct hit from Bankai Ichigo to a casual Ulq puts a scratch on his chest. Not relative.
3. Masked Ichigo immediately forces Ulq on the back foot and is going to two shot Ulq’s Zanpakuto. Not relative.
4. Casual Rez Ulq smashed through Ichigo’s mask and has him on his knees despite Ichigo’s Getsuga deflecting it and lessening the impact. Not relative.
5. A simple thrown lance that Ichigo barely dodges followed by a second one that simply by grazing his shoulder, sends him flying to the point he struggles to stop himself. Not relative.
6. Ichigo blocks a casual one handed swing from Ulq with two arms and is struggling to do so all while being constantly forced backwards. Not relative.
7. Masked Ichigo’s fully charged Getsuga gets slapped away by casual Rez Ulq’s wing. Not relative.
8. Rez Ulq fires a CO that destroys Ichigo’s Mask and half of his shihakusho despite Ulq trying to not hit LN which Ichigo was on, aka he wasn’t even aiming the full force at Ichigo but still took out half of Ichigo’s reiryoku. Not relative.
9. Ulq proceeds to pinball Ichigo around to make Ichigo despair and give up, ergo he isn’t serious nor trying to kill Ichigo and Ichigo still gets folded like a lawn chair. Not relative.
10. Ulq even tells Ichigo how he is dogshit compared to Ulq despite “imitating Hollows”, meaning that his Masked form isn’t relative to Rez Ulq.

1. They are boxing, and have an extended sword fight. just from that Idk if you understand the concept of relative. You can be stronger and still relative. Relative does not mean = It means close. Fight shows relativity
2. That shows they’re relative, they can damage each other. Kenpachi fight + even worse since they have Hierro
3. This is the scene where we see what “not relative” means. Breaking swords.
4. the mask is brittle stated multiple times. Ichigo blocks Lanza while being caught by surprise and is barely hurt.
5. “A simple”, Shows relative in combat speed+ you can get lifted up by attack or sent back. Ichigo does it to ulq right after. relative
6. So ichigo blocks ulq…okay relative.
7. I think it’s fine for an arrancar to be able to block strikes from someone relative. Grim does it a lot and ichigo a few times just to name a few. Hierro makes the body closer to sword. Which ichigo says is hard. res also makes your physical body power up so Hierro amp.
8. never heard of this or seen it implied, ulq fired downwards to ichigo who is slightly in font. We see this multiple times
9.no no no, he wants to show ichigo the difference in there power. Which is why he doesn’t use oscuras. [wouldve used hands like res 2 if he could]
10. Yes he is saying he is weaker than he is, they’re still relative. he is clearly exaggerating btw.

I think you should personally step back and do some things yourself. Just to conceptualize the difference of 2x. You probably don’t go to the gym much. Try going to one and deadlift 200. Should be fine for a lot of us. Now try 400 and tell me how it goes

 

[Cyberblader90]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/giving-aizen-power-null-resistance.127864/#post-4315120

 

[CalmHill]

Since ability add ons are cool I was checking and it seems no one besides yhwach has fate manipulation, But the entire verse should have it. Yhwach says multiple times that they do change fate. ichigo ask for the power to break fate, and in the bount arc he questions if his power is to break fate. Which seems to have been done in the end of the story where uryu says he wont make it but ichigo does. More generally in the side story its said everyone turns the stone that is fate, in cfyow fate is talked about a whole lot. From the top of my head aizen changes shuheis fate with his words and even places such as the soul societys fate swirled around shuehei

Yhwach just has a very busted version since this fiend sees infinite timelines
the requirement is - More subtle forms of the ability can simply nudge events in the users favor while more powerful variations can make it possible to ordain one's victory against their opponent.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Since ability add ons are cool I was checking and it seems no one besides yhwach has fate manipulation, But the entire verse should have it. Yhwach says multiple times that they do change fate. ichigo ask for the power to break fate, and in the bount arc he questions if his power is to break fate. Which seems to have been done in the end of the story where uryu says he wont make it but ichigo does. More generally in the side story its said everyone turns the stone that is fate, in cfyow fate is talked about a whole lot. From the top of my head aizen changes shuheis fate with his words and even places such as the soul societys fate swirled around shuehei

Yhwach just has a very busted version since this fiend sees infinite timelines
the requirement is - More subtle forms of the ability can simply nudge events in the users favor while more powerful variations can make it possible to ordain one's victory against their opponent.

not how it works

bleach basically has infinite possibilities, one path leads to xyz but another to ycx, they cannot control it

only YH and SK can do such a thing

 

[AppleLord]

I said your claim was incorrect but even if it was correct my arguments validity would not change.

This is the same thing you wrote earlier, writing it again doesn’t make any of your arguments any more valid.

 

[AppleLord]

No it wasn’t. I even went and explained the comparison while you insisted on being needlessly pedantic.

A human can’t hold back the full force of a car. The example you used was wrong.

I know what lanza means, I am asking why you use Lanza with a capital L, a term that when used in the context of Bleaxh refers to Relampago, especially when you bothered to type everything else in english.

I didn’t wrote “Relámpago” in it.

 

[Reio35]

https://vsbattles.com/threads/giving-aizen-power-null-resistance.127864/#post-4315120

Aizen has several powernull resistance feats. Like breaking the barrier around ss and stoping the kostou which is anti spirit energy

 

[Cyberblader90]

barrier he flat out broke with gravity. it actually supports the atomization translation for hado 99

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

barrier he flat out broke with gravity. it actually supports the atomization translation for hado 99

didnt the dome was broken already?

 

[Cyberblader90]

 

[CalmHill]

not how it works

bleach basically has infinite possibilities, one path leads to xyz but another to ycx, they cannot control it

only YH and SK can do such a thing

Yhwach literally says there power is the same he just sees more so his is better. And we see it in practice with ichigo cutting down yhwach when uryu said he won’t make it. As well as them literally “evolving” during combat to change the future.

 

[CalmHill]

This is the same thing you wrote earlier, writing it again doesn’t make any of your arguments any more valid.

My argument is just as valid as it’s been when I presented it. Saying getsuga and black getsuga are different is cool. Ones blue and ones black crazy.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yo, we need to recalculate Bleach characters speed.

 

[SilentBob34]

Yhwach literally says there power is the same he just sees more so his is better. And we see it in practice with ichigo cutting down yhwach when uryu said he won’t make it. As well as them literally “evolving” during combat to change the future.

I’m pretty sure that wasn’t meant to be taken literally at all

 

[Khaostichny]

Yo, we need to recalculate Bleach characters speed.

The Arc already has a speed CRT planned for the holiday, if I'm not mistaken.